new crafted gear useless for raid and so is materia V?

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

If you read the rest of the post, I'm explained why that isn't possible.

Collusion isn't possible. Not with no mechanism to enforce the cartel and the relatively low barriers of entry. The fact that all tradeable items in FFXIV are commodities makes it even worse.

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*sigh*

If you are the only one, or one of 2-3 crafters on a server capable of making a particular item, you have a monopoly. Please don't butt into conversations without reading the previous posts. I'll post the post I was responding to below for your reference:

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

If there are only a few crafters that bothered to get to the point where they can actually make the item in question, they're free to set prices at whatever they feel like.

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Originally Posted by Kiyyto

(if you think the diamond cartel is more reasonable than Ffxiv crafting)

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I never said anything of the sort... which is why you need to learn to read and comprehend.

What I said is that DeBeers, while charging ridiculous and exorbitant prices, at least prices their diamonds at the the edge of what is affordable. Some of the crafters in FF set prices BEYOND what is affordable, requiring people to buy gil if they want the item.

I never said they were reasonable... I said they were MORE reasonable than some of the pricing in FF. It's called a comparison, not an absolute.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

I never said anything of the sort... which is why you need to learn to read and comprehend.

What I said is that DeBeers, while charging ridiculous and exorbitant prices, at least prices their diamonds at the the edge of what is affordable. Some of the crafters in FF set prices BEYOND what is affordable, requiring people to buy gil if they want the item.

I never said they were reasonable... I said they were MORE reasonable than some of the pricing in FF. It's called a comparison, not an absolute.

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What's truly hilarious is that he doesn't even understand what HE has written.
I<3kaedan94

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

*sigh*

If you are the only one, or one of 2-3 crafters on a server capable of making a particular item, you have a monopoly. Please don't butt into conversations without reading the previous posts. I'll post the post I was responding to below for your reference:

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There is nothing stopping other crafters from getting to the level where they can produced the "over-priced" good.

If the money is that good, there will be no short of producers.

If there are only a few, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the effort to craft the item outweighs the reward for all but a few - i.e. You aren't paying enough.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

There is nothing stopping other crafters from getting to the level where they can produced the "over-priced" good.

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Never said they couldn't. Of course it's only temporary as more people get to the level they can make it. Again, I was responding to a specific comment by Giantbane (which described a monopoly situation... albeit temporary). I wasn't at all arguing that crafters would be able to maintain a monopoly.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Why do crafters need to feel important to endgame raiders? I really cannot understand this. I don't want to have to depend on crafters, and now that we are finally in this situation of not needing them and their nice prices, so much crafter qq. Can't u be happy making housing items and glamour prisms?

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Because it makes the crafting relevant to the primary activity done at end game and fosters a more social atmosphere.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Never said they couldn't. Of course it's only temporary as more people get to the level they can make it. Again, I was responding to a specific comment by Giantbane (which described a monopoly situation... albeit temporary). I wasn't at all arguing that crafters would be able to maintain a monopoly.

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Look, you accuse these crafters of being greedy.

But they took a great amount of effort (and Gil if they don't gatherer; i.e. They outsource part of the production and make less) to get to the level where the item can be produced before the rest of the crafting population. Their extra effort compared to their competitors is what you are paying the premium for.

The alternative is they don't go 110% throttle and the item won't even be in the board until some time later.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Why do crafters need to feel important to endgame raiders? I really cannot understand this. I don't want to have to depend on crafters, and now that we are finally in this situation of not needing them and their nice prices, so much crafter qq. Can't u be happy making housing items and glamour prisms?

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Then what's the point of capping a crafting class and getting the bis gear for crafting? Just to make nice housing furniture for the few people/FCs who have houses? Now it's even mostly pointless for lvling progression since quests give you the HQ versions of the gear right away (a terrible design decision IMO). I want to know, what's the point of crafting in 3.0?

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

And additional competition wouldn't mitigate this?

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But crafters don't want competition.

That's why they've had crafting turned into a pain in the ass in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

But crafters don't want competition.

That's why they've had crafting turned into a pain in the ass in the first place.

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Oh I see, crafters invented the system right?
Lmao.

You and Kaedan94 will hit it off beautifully!

There is no good reasoning to be made here. If you are a crafter and make something then you are free to price it however you want...competition is the only thing that can make the prices come down. Thank goodness I don't need to have any of that stuff right away and can wait until I can craft my own. Crafted items for savage are only needed for world first race anyway...and guess what...not this time around....good job SE...crafter should not be in control of this game, thank you for fixing it.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

I said that a real life monopoly (DeBeers) is MORE reasonable than the pricing in this game. While monopolies are illegal for a reason

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Except DeBeers has only 60% of the market which is about 15% less then the threshold the Sherman act uses to define a monopoly. Meaning: 1) they are not actually a monopoly, 2) the aren't headquartered outside the US because it would be illegal, and 3) you just made the whole thing up and have no idea what you are talking about.

Businesses price based on max profits, nothing more. If they can sell with a higher margin and make more they will. If lowering the price drives unit sales and maximizes profits at the expense of lower profit margins, they will do that. Your altruistic view of business, DeBeers specifically, while nice sounding, is so far from the truth of how companies operate it isn't close to reality.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

There is nothing stopping other crafters from getting to the level where they can produced the "over-priced" good.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

But they took a great amount of effort (and Gil if they don't gatherer; i.e. They outsource part of the production and make less) to get to the level where the item can be produced before the rest of the crafting population. Their extra effort compared to their competitors is what you are paying the premium for.

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Just going to point out the silliness of this. The biggest thing stopping a crafter from leveling is gil. Those with gil already have a much easier time than those without. They can level faster and better and even bypass the NUMEROUS gil walls people hit as a craft is leveled. There is plenty to stop it, especially when it comes to gearing up so that you cna make those high level recipes. And what's even worse is that if you true to settle on selling small things, richer crafters are quick to drive whatever you are selling into the ground to prevent competition. It happens, alot.

I never understood where this huge pay wall is at for leveling a craft. There is too many ways to level up a craft that doesn't involve a whole lot of gil. If that was the case ppl the say that are accusing pimped out crafter of gil buying. :/ omni crafters started just as poor as anyone.

@Mikedizzy Since when has crafters ever controlled this game? Been here since beta and never seen that at all... ppl are delusional these days

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

There is no good reasoning to be made here. If you are a crafter and make something then you are free to price it however you want...competition is the only thing that can make the prices come down. Thank goodness I don't need to have any of that stuff right away and can wait until I can craft my own. Crafted items for savage are only needed for world first race anyway...and guess what...not this time around....good job SE...crafter should not be in control of this game, thank you for fixing it.

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World first race FCs don't have their own in-house crafters and gatherers?

Managing FC finances to acquire gear is too hard?

The game gets dumb down even more. /smh

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

Just going to point out the silliness of this. The biggest thing stopping a crafter from leveling is gil. Those with gil already have a much easier time than those without. They can level faster and better and even bypass the NUMEROUS gil walls people hit as a craft is leveled. There is plenty to stop it, especially when it comes to gearing up so that you cna make those high level recipes. And what's even worse is that if you true to settle on selling small things, richer crafters are quick to drive whatever you are selling into the ground to prevent competition. It happens, alot.

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Err ... If they spend Gil to level, they are going to want to recoup it. They didn't get rich by throwing away money.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

DeBeers at least prices their goods at an affordable level (if still high and borderline unreasonable). Many crafters in FF price at outrageously not affordable levels... which encourages gil buying.

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There is no greater real world scam than possibly gem stones, its the only market where you pay for lower quality crap because people have convinced you to. An artifical diamond is in all ways superior the only way people know its fake is because of its lack of Flaws.

And the high prices in HW are the fault of Scrip plain and simple. It cuts into the supply of materials thus increasing the price, it cuts into the supply of items still increasing the price and it causes people to have to spend almost of a full time job's worth of effort getting the rarer stuff. So when someone spends 60 hours in a week to be the only person able to find something(or one of 10) of course prices are going to be insane.

beverages still control the game

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Which is pure, unadulterated greed, and encourages gil buying.

An intelligent business sets prices at reasonable levels. Even monopolies (which is essentially what you are describing) set reasonable prices. DeBeers has a monopoly on diamonds, and they could set prices at "whatever they feel like" (and they do), but they realize (like the intelligent people they are) that if they set them too high, that nobody would buy them because they simply couldn't afford them.

Unfortunately, a lot of greedy crafters don't have that level of intellect. Or they do, and they are actually relying on people buying gil (sometimes because they sell the gil they get to RMT companies).

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That's a really bad example, since all diamonds are overpriced. In terms of rarity, they're actually one of the more common gemstones, and can even be manufactured, yet somehow cost more than rubies and emeralds which are actually more scarce in nature. DeBeers controls 90% of the market and keeps tight reigns on how many it's selling so as not to oversaturate the market. Their worth is basically a carefully controlled marketing scheme.

In FFXIV terms, that would be like having one crafter controlling 90% of goldsmithing crafts, but releasing relatively few of them to keep prices up and demand high. The exact OPPOSITE of what you want to see. When there's a lot of items out there, prices go down, when there aren't many, prices rise.

Of course, what people seem to conveniently ignore when it comes to crafting prices is that many of the items we need to purchase come at a strict cost that we CANT control. Certain recipe books can't be completed without expensive hand-ins for HQ items or collectables for scrips. Cast your mind back to Arachne gear in 2.0 which required Allagan silk, which only drops rarely in Coil, AND the second mastercraft book. You're required to use 2 fieldcraft 3 materia in each hand-in craft, and you needed 5 of these to get a single book. That's expensive, considering how relatively rare FC3 demimaterias are, and the level you'd need your desynthesis skill at just to attempt it.

Moving onto 3.0 and we have red and blue scrips, which just causes a whole new level of headaches. Hand ins need to be of a minimum quality to qualify for scrips, and don't really offer much of a bonus for maximum quality. On top of this, many recipes require aetherically reduced items which can only be obtained by having the respective gatherer and 'desynthing' collectables of a certain quality.

So, before you go screaming at crafters for having high prices look at all the facts. Most of us spent a huge amount of gil to get to the stage we're at. Whether that's the materia needed to get to the right skill level, or the huge grind for books. It doesn't necessarily have to be gil, if people have gathered their own materials, but it is still a loss of potential profit for those who would otherwise have sold the materials instead of handing them in.

Setting low prices on items which are a pain to obtain is just shooting yourself in the foot. Might as well give up being selling and just give everything out as freebies at that point.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Setting low prices on items which are a pain to obtain is just shooting yourself in the foot. Might as well give up being selling and just give everything out as freebies at that point.

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That sounds a lot like Adamantoise! The land where people sell their hard work for literally peanuts just because.

Wait until many steps of the new relic quests is out before assuming materia V as useless.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Wait until many steps of the new relic quests is out before assuming materia V as useless.

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If it has no use now, then it is by definition useless.

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

I never understood where this huge pay wall is at for leveling a craft. There is too many ways to level up a craft that doesn't involve a whole lot of gil. If that was the case ppl the say that are accusing pimped out crafter of gil buying. :/ omni crafters started just as poor as anyone.

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The gil wall is in overmelds and endgame mats, not in the leveling process.

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Originally Posted by Kiyyto

Oh I see, crafters invented the system right?
Lmao.

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No, but they certainly campaigned for it. Which is why it was added and most of the playerbase got screwed over.

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

I never understood where this huge pay wall is at for leveling a craft. There is too many ways to level up a craft that doesn't involve a whole lot of gil. If that was the case ppl the say that are accusing pimped out crafter of gil buying. :/ omni crafters started just as poor as anyone.

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Leveling up crafting and collecting all the materials needed for it once there takes either a lot of gil or a lot of time. The ones who reach the top first and therefore gain the chance to momentarily act like near-monopolies (at least until a bunch of other crafters catch up to them) are among the ones who do it with a lot of gil.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Why do crafters need to feel important to endgame raiders? I really cannot understand this. I don't want to have to depend on crafters, and now that we are finally in this situation of not needing them and their nice prices, so much crafter qq. Can't u be happy making housing items and glamour prisms?

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Why do you hate crafters so much that you have to make this argument in every single topic? Did a crafter ntr your girlfriend?



And why do you make this argument time and time again despite having millions yourself?

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Leveling up crafting and collecting all the materials needed for it once there takes either a lot of gil or a lot of time. The ones who reach the top first and therefore gain the chance to momentarily act like near-monopolies (at least until a bunch of other crafters catch up to them) are among the ones who do it with a lot of gil.

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And guess what? They have to earn back the "a lot of gil" they spend levelling up?

What you think they got rich by spending gil nilly willy? They are investing. They are spending money to (hopefully) make more money.