Paladin Adjustments (3.?)

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Originally Posted by Arannon

I agree with a couple of these...mostly that clemency casting faster but with a longer recast is a good idea because, yeah using it as the ability works (healing yourself some, but getting a lot of benefit from healing others) doesn't work because actual healers cast times are so much shorter.

We can talk about it taking "Skill" to time the cast right before a big hit, but thats just "clunk"...a lot of our utility as paladins is riddled with "clunk". Cover for instance, classic, iconic paladin ability from FF...requires we switch targets, trigger it, and then stay within 10 yards of each other. Doable? Certainly...Easily doable, not so much...

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A mouse over or target of target macro would help with the switch targets thing, but it is a pain and instead of "clunk" i would use "gimmick" as a lot of our tool kit involves "gimmicks".

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

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Sword Oath DPS is hardly 8% behind WAR's Deliverance DPS. Putting an aggro multiplier on all of its DPS will make it impossible to OT without pulling threat as a PLD.

Fixing the enmity multipliers on the main enmity combo is the most realistic solution. PLD will still be behind the other tanks (as it should I guess?) but will be far ahead of the DPS. It will make SwO tanking as possible as non-Girt or Deliverance tanking are.

SwO grants the PLD a rough increase of 11~15% in DPS based on your sword's AA speed. Removing the auto-attack bonus for a flat 10% boost is a nerf. I also like the uniqueness of SwO's way of increasing DPS. It's not flat, nor does it grant access to extra abilities.

P.S. The mi'qote in your signature is provoking me! What happens if she touches me? :o

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Sword Oath DPS is hardly 8% behind WAR's Deliverance DPS. Putting an aggro multiplier on all of its DPS will make it impossible to OT without pulling threat as a PLD.
o

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That depends on the emn modifier. X2-3 on Royal would not lead to any agro problems, same with goring. Both would help tremendously while SwO tanking. x5 or 5.5 would be dumb.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Sword Oath DPS is hardly 8% behind WAR\\'s Deliverance DPS. Putting an aggro multiplier on all of its DPS will make it impossible to OT without pulling threat as a PLD.

Fixing the enmity multipliers on the main enmity combo is the most realistic solution. PLD will still be behind the other tanks (as it should I guess?) but will be far ahead of the DPS. It will make SwO tanking as possible as non-Girt or Deliverance tanking are.

SwO grants the PLD a rough increase of 11~15% in DPS based on your sword\\'s AA speed. Removing the auto-attack bonus for a flat 10% boost is a nerf. I also like the uniqueness of SwO\\'s way of increasing DPS. It\\'s not flat, nor does it grant access to extra abilities.

P.S. The mi\\'qote in your signature is provoking me! What happens if she touches me? :o

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10% Increased enmity as far as I know is equivalent to 10% increased damage without y\\'know, increased damage, as far as enmity is concerned.

I opted for different approach as opposed to plain tuning of the modifiers for a different flavour as I\\'m sure people would much prefer different approachs to similiar effects vs copy pasta.

My ideas are for the most part just that, with arbituary numbers as an example. Naturally actually tuning would result in different numbers but the concept is the same.

Unfortunetly for you cat lover, that is me as a F Highlander Hyur back in the 2.X era. God I miss my chisled abs and plump chest. :(

Don't worry though, she's harmless... If you behave.

We might as well just combine tank and DPS stances; That's what everyone wants. If you could generate solid enmity in DPS stance you'd never have to use the tank stance.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

We might as well just combine tank and DPS stances; That's what everyone wants. If you could generate solid enmity in DPS stance you'd never have to use the tank stance.

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This actually isn't a horrible idea overall.

Tanks are expected to DPS since Final Coil was released and it's really due to the game's limited meta; damage damage damage. If Square wants tanks to deal a certain amount of damage why include a tanking and a dpsing stance when they could easily roll them into one? Why did they decide to lower tank damage output at all while in a tanking stance? It seems to make little sense to reduce the damage a tank has while tanking - since all it does is push tanks (all tanks WAR/DRK/PLD) to step out of their tank stance.

that 5% dmg in sword oath + slashing debuff seems to be too much, its dps is already close to warrior with slashing debuff on.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

that 5% dmg in sword oath + slashing debuff seems to be too much, its dps is already close to warrior with slashing debuff on.

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Its ~8% behind

Somebody suggested in one of these threads that PLD and DRK could take some cues from Ninja in that they're able to put out decent damage but are more valuable because of their significant utility. I guess to fit their respective themes you could make PLD a defensive utility tank (already has shades of this but could use being stronger in this aspect so its more worth bringing into Savage) and DRK offensive utility by means of debuffs and the like. The TP issue both suffer could be addressed by say, giving Tempered Will a TP restore (this is one of the most situational skills in the entire game after all) or letting some of DRK's kind of boring off-gcd attacks drain some TP.

My thoughts are a bit more extreme, I suspect.

Goring Blade: Stand Alone Attack, no longer part of a combo.
Royal Authority: Placed after riot blade
Divine Veil: Does not require a trigger. Affects the Paladin.
Save the Queen: New attack that replaces Royal Authority after Savage Blade. 260 potency. Applies a damage shield on the paladin for 400 potency for 6 seconds.
Savage Blade: Potency increased to 220.
Rage of Halone: Enmity Increased (x6)
Circle of Scorn: CD Reduced to 20.
Shield Swipe: oGCD. No Tp Cost. No Pacification. Effect is a short cone attack. Recast 10 seconds.
Clemency: No longer a spell, but a GCD.
Sword & Shield Oath: No longer invoke the GCD. No Longer break combos.
Shield Slam: Cost reduced to 60 TDP. Upon use, gain a debuff (Exhaustion) for 10 seconds that increases the cost of Shield Slam to 130.
Blind: Affects all monsters and creatures in the game, like DoT's and many other status effects, however--blind can now only reduce the accuracy of auto attacks.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

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What anime is that? I hope they have very good PLOT besides the ones I'm seeing....

The enmity Modifier on Rage of Halone is x5. While Butcher's Block and Heavy Slash is x5.5.

THIS IS JOB DISCRIMINATION.

#PLDPRIDE

They don't need to adjust PLD. Just increase overall enmity. They made everyone stronger but didn't boost aggro combos.

So just to boil this down to what we can all agree on;

Clemency needs a shorter cast and longer recast.


I see far too many threads of people slap-fighting over tank DPS so I will just say that it doesn't really matter - thanks for contributing! :D

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Originally Posted by elemental10

What anime is that? I hope they have very good PLOT besides the ones I'm seeing....

The enmity Modifier on Rage of Halone is x5. While Butcher's Block and Heavy Slash is x5.5.

THIS IS JOB DISCRIMINATION.

#PLDPRIDE

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Yeah, screw job discrimination! I call for equality!

You mean in my signature? That is Black Hanekawa from Bakemonogatari. It's a great anime that I enjoyed a lot, but it requires and extent of knowledge of Japanese culture and language as it is very heavy on dialogue, kanji and word play and puns. The scene I'm using in the signature is actually the main character playing a tongue twister full of the syllabus "Na" so that she says "nya" a lot.