Why is it so hard to find people to clear Alexander Turn 4?

You can stun the leg which releases steam to drastically reduce the damage of Perpetual Ray (from 6k to 2k or so), making orb soaking significantly less dicey for non-tanks. Very few seem to do so though, despite me mentioning it most of the time. :(

And personally, my DF experiences have been fairly good. Would say there's about a 70% success rate for my part, discounting wipes. I'll admit the bad runs tend to get really bad, though. Tanks dying in the Quarantine due to poor DPS and hitting the enrage timer with 25% HP to go, or the entire group getting the Judgment Nisi debuff because no one pays attention where they run. :D

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Originally Posted by BushWookie

Having the healers grab orbs is an awful idea. It might seem fine until you get the nasty RNG which tags them with a laser right after grabbing orbs. Dead.

I don't understand why people would want to subject their healers to mechanics that can kill them instantly.

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That's why the MT should focus target one leg while they target the other. When the blue stun resist buff disappears from either leg, stun that leg. It drastically reduces the damage from Perpetual Ray, making it more manageable.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

That's why the MT should focus target one leg while they target the other. When the blue stun resist buff disappears from either leg, stun that leg. It drastically reduces the damage from Perpetual Ray, making it more manageable.

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I never knew about this until today's run in A4 through the DF as a DPS. It's not like it's written somewhere that you could do that, people had to experiment around to discover it.


What do you guys imagine Savage is going to be like?

The way the loot system works gives players no incentive to run A4 once they already got their loot.

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Originally Posted by Destomius

The way the loot system works gives players no incentive to run A4 once they already got their loot.

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So one item per turn for the week? So if I got an item drop from Turn 1, 2, 3, and 4 I'm locked out for the week? I thought only Savage Mode was going to have the weekly lockout... plus didn't they say you're going to need the gear you obtain from Alexander NM to be able to do Savage mode?

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

So one item per turn for the week? So if I got an item drop from Turn 1, 2, 3, and 4 I'm locked out for the week? I thought only Savage Mode was going to have the weekly lockout... plus didn't they say you're going to need the gear you obtain from Alexander NM to be able to do Savage mode?

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No. You can still come back once you got your item but you can't loot on anything. So why would you go back?

To help out friends.

And don't forget that raid tuning is quite forgiving in this game. When they say you're gonna need 190 to do this content, they probably tuned it so that a party of 170s who know evereything and can execute perfectly can beat the content. So good parties with full 180 and part 190 could most probably do Alex-S floors after figuring out all the necessary mechanics.

Besides, there's theoretically 3 weeks' worth of loot from Alex-N before the first week of Alex-S ends. That means, if you want to maximize number of pieces with priority on armor for Alex-S, you can do:

1. A1 - waist, A2 - head, A3 - legs, A4 - legs, Quest - acc
2. A1 - feet, A2 - head, A3 - legs, A4 - legs
3. A1 - feet, A2 - acc, A3 - hands, A4 - hands

giving you 190 in: head, hands, waist, legs, feet, accessories x2.

Although most people who rely on the DF are just rolling everything and take what they can get.

Cleared A4 first time, no wipes, with the Duty Finder.

Bad luck on your part? Good luck on my part? Probably a little of both.

Make sure to watch out for equipment-swappers too. For people who have leveled alts, a lot of them don't have equipment for their alt and will use accessories from their main.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Make sure to watch out for equipment-swappers too. For people who have leveled alts, a lot of them don't have equipment for their alt and will use accessories from their main.

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There's no point doing Alex-N with anything but your main job unless you've actually made the mistake of investing all your Law into the "wrong" job. Even if I have all jobs leveled to 60, I can still only get 1 token per floor per week, and I can do that on my main job. Tokens are not job dependent.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

There's no point doing Alex-N with anything but your main job unless you've actually made the mistake of investing all your Law into the "wrong" job. Even if I have all jobs leveled to 60, I can still only get 1 token per floor per week, and I can do that on my main job. Tokens are not job dependent.

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Oh, I see. Nobody ever likes to play content with anything other than their main job. Gotcha... Or decides they don't like the queue time of their main job after they've invested their tokens into that job.

/sarcasm

Malboro is a very bad server OP get out while you still can. :P

Can't... made a lot of friends there and I don't want to transfer to others, plus I have met some rather good people.

Fight is very easy. Just have Tanks eat orbs.
On PH2 with adds put down waymarks where they spawn.
Range 1 gets A
Range 2 gets B
Melee/Melee gets C.
When Tank and a dd gets sucked in have remaining tank pick up that "dd's" position.
On Judgement phase have healers on opposite sides. Also Judgement drops if no one touches that healer. Have healers just adol/buff themselves for 5/4 ticks. 321 are easy to heal through.
Healers should not be eating sniper beams.
1 healer between A/B other B/C. Mark the healers so no one crosses on them and win.
You can see boss's ability for quarntine after you focus target him -> when first leg dies.
Boss is extremely easy. o/

I (tank) just ask all the DPS to move away from the boss when Dolls are up and only move back to the boss after all the Dolls are down. Quarantine will get a random DPS so from my experience it's not a good idea to assign fixed spots in DF. Only the MT can be relied upon to always be able to manage one spot. A lot of the DPS in DF are not responsive enough to notice changes in circumstances.

And in phase 3 the MT will be taking Perpetual Ray that hits for progressively harder, plus the healer will be under Judgement Nisi, so the MT should not be taking Discoid orbs. DPS should get used to taking the orbs in turn. It's only 5k damage per orb. You wouldn't believe it but a lot of DPS don't catch on to the fact that the orbs have splash damage.

Basically, this one single rule plus one note has helped save the two DF parties I had that started out absolutely hopeless:

"When you hear this macro, please would all the DPS move away from the boss and join in managing whatever mechanics you see? And at all times stay away from each other, everything in this fight have splash damage." And I hit that macro on Discoid. I hit it on Dolls. I hit it on Carnage. In one of the hopeless parties that wiped twice or three times in P2, once I set up that rule and started using the macro, we suddenly sailed smoothly into P3 and downed the boss in that one go.

No long-winded explanations before the fight. Just a one-liner and a generic sound effect macro was enough to save the worst of the parties I had.

Biggest problem I see is people will not commit to eating orbs. It's like they try to run into it and run out to avoid taking any damage. Only they end up missing the orb and it doesn't blow up. Then hits someone else or moves into a group and cause a bunch of people to take damage.

The reason why it is hard to find people to clear Alexander 4 is due to random skill sets you have to work with in an anonymous environment.

I completed A4 on the first try. Why? because the tanks talked strategy BEFORE running into the fray. So the notion of a healer check instance is a slice of baloney. Also, healers should not be eating orbs, ads, or beams period. It becomes a healer check if the DPS in their glowing RAV gear don't know how to deal major damage. It also doesn't help if tanks with the tensile strength of a moist towelette go in there ill informed.

Tanks positioning between the legs and mitigating those annoying beams with stuns is a start. Healers should be opposite of each other at 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock positions. DPS should take care to stay away from them going into 3rd phase. Mark the add entrance points, stick to your quadrant to avoid splash on stack death. Also reference Mr. Happy's tutelage on the matter before EVERY new raid encounter.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

People will not commit to eating orbs. It's like they try to run into it and run out to avoid taking any damage.

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Happens to me quite often (same thing in the Chrysalis and Tam-Tara Hard Mode too). I rush to an orb and it just doesn't do anything. I guess it has to do with lag or something, on my screen I'm right smack on the orb but it's actually further ?

The orbs is the worst mechanic to me, only because all the groups I end up in do it differently. In one group it will be the healers' responsibility, the other the off-tank's, then in another it will be the DPS's... And then there's the whiny healer who'll throw a "don't rush to the orbs, they hurt, they don't give you money...". Well, SOMEONE's gotta do it.

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Originally Posted by Medicine

Malboro is a very bad server OP get out while you still can. :P

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True story. If you are ever interested in raiding, get out of Malboro. It is a damn casual server. Their "server first" clears are always years behind other servers so... yeah. You get the idea.

I started playing in Malboro and it was really lol. Glad that I got out of that hole.

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Originally Posted by Nanohurtz

Also reference Mr. Happy's tutelage on the matter before EVERY new raid encounter.

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r u f**king serious

Well its been out about a week or so lol it takes time for people to learn it. Thats just life.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

True story. If you are ever interested in raiding, get out of Malboro. It is a damn casual server. Their "server first" clears are always years behind other servers so... yeah. You get the idea.

I started playing in Malboro and it was really lol. Glad that I got out of that hole.



r u f**king serious

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A server clear years later does not mean the server is bad. People being elitist asses makes a server bad.

Please, don't nerf the easiest raid content. Try harder or again and again with better people.

I cleared this day one with a fresh group of pf pugs I had never met before on my server. We wiped twice then killed it our third pull. This fight is the hardest of the three floors and took my group the longest to clear after one shotting the other floors. Please don't nerf. Alexander normal is already so easy.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Their "server first" clears are always years behind other servers so... yeah.

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This has nothing to do with the server. if someone wants to raid, he should try to find motivated people and maybe even a static. You can't sit around doing nothing until all wisely falls from the sky.

Moreover, some raiders don't care to being server first, the server even more. Raiding is not competition but all about team play. Compete with other is just for self-satisfaction since it's not necessary at all.

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Originally Posted by Nanohurtz

Tanks positioning between the legs and mitigating those annoying beams with stuns is a start.

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I didn't know about this, but I've always just stayed right in front of the manipulator because that's just natural for a tank, although the one time I STed in the DF, I found the other tank to stay behind each of the forelegs.

What beam exactly are you talking about?

I guess find a new server? I won 2nd try with all new people who had very little knowledge of the fight.

A4 is indeed a very hard healer check but honestly I love it. A1-3 are all DPS checks and as a healer I get so tired of getting stuck with bad DPS and feeling like I can't do anything more than pop into cleric stance as much as I can and sometimes even that's not enough to beat the enrage timer lol. I honestly prefer A4 to A3. So many enrages because of comically slow DPS.

Honestly HW in general seems to be heavier on DPS checks. I was glad to finally see a fight where you really got tested on your healers.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

It is a damn casual server..

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*Sigh*

there is nothing wrong with casuals, nor is there anything wrong with having heavily delayed raid clears. some people prefer to take it easy, and that server has decided that's the way they want to do it. there are, unsurprisingly, scumbags on both ends (and in the middle) however.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

I finally cleared Alexander 4 today!

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glad your tale ended on a happy note OP. these fights take a bit more coordination than your average dungeon, so things can be hectic at times. wipes with at least true endgame raids (like raids tuned to the point where coil or savage coil is) are usually expected, and learning content is something that should be something of trial and error that builds up to that perfect run.

and then you farm it (or at least try to).

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And it was FUN!

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that's the thing about raids. when they aren't tearing you hair out because of stupid mistakes, they are quite fun. despite the fact that i have yet to beat turn 9, i still consider it fun. working with a team to kill a tough enemy is something i enjoy as a player, and i'm glad you were able to get that feeling.

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Now Savage Mode is going to be a nightmare for a lot of players if they add in new mechanics and higher damage output. I can't imagine how their sanity will last.

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they did say savage was going to be on par with second coil savage, so it'll be hardly surprising. It's tuned to be that way, and top tiers have already prepped their gear, crafters, and materials and bared their teeth.

It's mostly just because people give up easily if they don't instant clear everything. When doing the third turn for the first time the other night, I went through three or four groups before getting it done because everyone votes to abandon after a couple of failed attempts, even if there are people asking what to do and no one replies to them either before pulling or when a mechanic is about to show up.......

I've actually pretty much stopped talking to one of the people I first met when playing this game because I found out she has this same Elitist attitude. We were doing one of the harder non-coil runs in the game, (at the time), with a party full of new players, me included. After two wipes, with each one getting us further and further into the run as people began to understand what was happening, she basically said, "I can't deal with groups like this", before leaving, choosing to eat the penalty, rather than stick with an improving group of players just because we weren't instantly perfect.....

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

People apparently don't like doing normal dungeon shite like KILLING ADDS... Majority of wipes for me is because there's DPS and tanks that kill one add and then move onto the boss again...

Also, when someone decides to run right through me as WHM on phase 3...

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Don't really need multiple dps on the dolls in p4. Each dps (one is quarantined) should be able to kill their designated doll just fine even w/o having all their burst oGCDs.

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Originally Posted by adn

A4 is indeed a very hard healer check but honestly I love it.

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The WHM and SCH in our FC have very different views. They both say it's not a healer check at all, but a dps stupidity check. Things like:

• Stay away from each other. When a melee stands next to the MT and eats splash damage from attacks on the MT, it's a fail, and that DPS causes extra healing pressure. When Carnage Zero is cast and the melee still all focus on their rotation and bunched up together, each one gets hit once but takes 2 other people's splash damage, that's fail and healers suddenly have to deal with 3 times the incoming damage.
• Taking orbs is a first come first serve affair. If someone's in front of you taking the ball, you back off. That's just how simple it is. But no. 80% of the dps taking the orbs play on low system specs and just can't see the other players in the party. Extra damage that didn't need to happen at all, fail dps, extra healing.
• DPS taking orbs at 20% health and dies---wtf are you thinking about? Fail. Extra pressure on healers.
• DPS getting infected by Judgement Nisi.

In one run when we had perfectly executing DPS players, we finished it smoothly and the healers remarked that it felt like a regular dungeon run.

It's mostly lack of environmental awareness (scripted fights tend to breed these kind of players) and blindly following instructions with no thinking put into the how and the why.

I cringe everytime when I the off-tank with a big square mark on my head jumps and charges towards an orb with full HP and the DPS with 40% HP cuts in from the side to take it.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

I didn't know about this, but I've always just stayed right in front of the manipulator because that's just natural for a tank, although the one time I STed in the DF, I found the other tank to stay behind each of the forelegs.

What beam exactly are you talking about?

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Perpetual Ray. When the blue stun resist buff goes off (steam also comes out of the leg) the Manipulator will use it on someone. I'm pretty sure it targets a random person for a moderate amount of damage. I focus target the right leg and target the left leg, then stand between them so both of them are reachable because it can be either one.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Perpetual Ray. When the blue stun resist buff goes off (steam also comes out of the leg) the Manipulator will use it on someone. I'm pretty sure it targets a random person for a moderate amount of damage. I focus target the right leg and target the left leg, then stand between them so both of them are reachable because it can be either one.

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Hm. I know about the random target Perpetual Ray in P1 and P2, but never though it could be blocked. Are you sure it can be blocked by standing in front? In P3 it only ever targets the MT no matter where you stand, but there's really no reason for the MT to move around in P3 anyway. I'm gonna have to relay this info to our healers and see if they felt P1+2 to be any different when tanks don't stand right in the front.

In response to the 3 persons who have responded to my earlier comment:

Yes there is nothing wrong taking it easy and being casual. What I said was that Malboro is bad if you are serious about raiding, because that server population as a whole is very casual in general. My quote on their server firsts was used as an illustration on how casual and taking things easy they can be, that explains why they are slower than other servers.

If OP is fine with that then by all means. However he started this thread to complain how people screws up badly on a story mode content that is on the second week of its release and his failure to find enough interested people to run the content, hints that he is not content with the situation.

In servers that are more serious on raiding, like the community in Tonberry, people have cleared all turns between anywhere from 2-4hrs after patch release and PF starts to be filled with people seeking to clear the later turns or farm them. That is one way to measure things. On the other hand people who takes it easy might even take one month to clear this story mode content. That is seemingly what Malboro is.

It depends on what you want. OP seems to want to clear content more efficiently with expectations that more people are interested in raiding at a higher level and thus my assessment that Malboro is not the place for him.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

r u f**king serious

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Yes, I "r f**king serious..", are you? lol. If you are one of these server stat fixated, obtuse elitist, know it all from birth -- your a lost cause, I can't help you. That said, I hope never to run with you. No hard feelings. Mr. Happy vids worked for me with all coils, biz & rav, and A1-A4.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

.."When you hear this macro.."

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Thanks for being part of the solution. This is brilliant and actually worked bringing people somewhat up to speed as soon as incorporated this approach. I included a link the Mr. Happy Video to spread awareness.

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Originally Posted by adn

A4 is indeed a very hard healer check but honestly I love it...

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I refuse to carry people if they don't know the fight, bother to watch the vids, or ask for help. I will dismiss myself and eat the 30 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Hm. I know about the random target Perpetual Ray in P1 and P2, but never though it could be blocked...

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It can be stunned lest it hits lets say a confused DPS who swallowed 1 to 2 orbs followed byPRay. It's importan to note that dying by PRay gives the boss a PERMA dmg stack making the fight much harder.

You will see the eye charge up as steam discharges from EITHER leg. The boss is not omni-directional which means you can stand behind it to see the charge up bar before it unleashes the pew-pew. This is why I suggested tanks to stand in between or behind the boss for awareness. So far 2 runs where a huge success when this was mitigated along with keeping the jag dolls apart to avoid 4x debuff of death.

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Originally Posted by adn

A4 is indeed a very hard healer check but honestly I love it. A1-3 are all DPS checks and as a healer I get so tired of getting stuck with bad DPS and feeling like I can't do anything more than pop into cleric stance as much as I can and sometimes even that's not enough to beat the enrage timer lol. I honestly prefer A4 to A3. So many enrages because of comically slow DPS.

Honestly HW in general seems to be heavier on DPS checks. I was glad to finally see a fight where you really got tested on your healers.

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My brain might explode the next time I see someone call this fight a healer check. I just don't understand.

People sucking at lethal mechanics does not make a fight a healer check >.>

A healer check would be a fight with such intense, constant, unavoidable outgoing damage that it strains your healers to keep up with it. So far there is nothing in this expansion that has been a healer check, not even close. A fight that has clearly defined mechanics that either make you take next to no damage if you do them right or tons of damage if you do them wrong is NOT a healer check.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

My brain might explode the next time I see someone call this fight a healer check.

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I agree, and it's typical to deflect incompetence over to the healers - surprisingly in forums as well. It's only a healer check if you take it upon yourself as a healer to "carry" a dps weak pug. I'll give the run a few tries and if the parser starts to complain of abuse - I'll take a 30m and move on to fishing as a CD. This is arguably a dps check. DPS need to shift from the scripted paradigm and actually work in tandem to help prevent, and mitigate damage, all this while bringing down the boss effectively. The faster the boss is downed the fewer chances bad RNG can wipe the party. i.e. OT eats 3 orbs, and that PRay finishes them off.

As a static-less person who lives in Duty Finder my only real issue with Burden is lack of patience. I like to think I'm decent enough at this fight... I don't drag adds into other players, I don't go after orbs if someone else is, I certainly don't eat more than one orb at a time, I intercept lasers, I keep on my targets, I use my magey cooldowns to avoid damage when I can, I don't hug healers in phase 3.... I know the dance. But a lot of people still do not and everyone else seems unwilling to let them learn.

NOW. If you are unable to down the second leg after a few attempts I can understand vote abandoning. Sometimes it just seems like there will be no victory with certain groups. But almost every time I've done Burden we will get halfway through or 3/4 the last phase, wipe, then someone vote abandons. That drives me nuts. COME ON GUYS IT'S NOT SO BAD, WE CAN DO THIS...

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Originally Posted by Zfz

The WHM and SCH in our FC have very different views. They both say it's not a healer check at all, but a dps stupidity check.

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10000% agreed.

The only thing 'endgame' thing I'd say even approaches a healing intensive fight is phase 2 of bismarck ex.