Suggestion: Dark Knight Revamp (Yes I know another one)

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Everyone asking for LNC cross-class skills? Please, for everyone sakes, NO. If Dark Knight gets Blood for Blood, we will just end up with even more derpknights than we do right now. Skills that make tanks take more damage are not viable.

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I fail to understand how you are blaming a skill (blood for blood) for a person's actions. If some not so smart tank decides to use blood for blood while MTing, then how is that the fault of the skill? You are right skills that cause a tank to take more damage are not viable, that's why a OT would use it because they are not tanking.

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Originally Posted by Domira

I fail to understand how you are blaming a skill (blood for blood) for a person's actions. If some not so smart tank decides to use blood for blood while MTing, then how is that the fault of the skill? You are right skills that cause a tank to take more damage are not viable, that's why a OT would use it because they are not tanking.

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It's not the skill's fault, no one's making it out that way, it's just realistically speaking there's gonna be people out there that CC blood for blood and use it poorly if the option is given to them, it would be better to just not have it be apart of the equation.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Same here. We need QoL changes, nothing more.

EDIT: And a fix to that Darkside glitch, that alone is the only thing driving me nuts about the class right now. A single WHM in the party using Regen and Medica II during mobs completely destroys my MP.

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That is more of a visual glitch your actual mp use/regen is no more or less the only time it will affect you is when you have 1500 mp and it ticks down meaning you can't use DA or if you are low on mp and it removes dark side but it doesn't drain your mp
Like everyone thinks it does.

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Originally Posted by Hanz

That is more of a visual glitch your actual mp use/regen is no more or less the only time it will affect you is when you have 1500 mp and it ticks down meaning you can't use DA or if you are low on mp and it removes dark side but it doesn't drain your mp
Like everyone thinks it does.

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If it's capable of keeping you from using your skills or can disable Darkside......

It drains your MP.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

If it's capable of keeping you from using your skills or can disable Darkside......

It drains your MP.

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It doesn't, test it. The ticks are just the server updating twice. Test it for 20 seconds yourself with dark side on auto attacking a dummy. Then get a whm to regen you while auto attacking the dummy. The end mp result is the same. As I said the only problem comes because of the double update where you see the drain and the tick up instead of just the slow drain of mp your expecting. This can mean abilities can't be used like you said but it's not draining any more pm than usual.

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Originally Posted by Sentenza

It's not the skill's fault, no one's making it out that way, it's just realistically speaking there's gonna be people out there that CC blood for blood and use it poorly if the option is given to them, it would be better to just not have it be apart of the equation.

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Then don't group with them.

They probably won't want BfB on DRK even though it can be used for smart play.
The way SE talked about using HP as a DRK for skills, makes me think they don't want things that don't fit a tank's primary role (like a skill that increases damage taken).
No denying it would be useful, though, for off-tanking if used well.
Player opinion can go either way on this, but it's just unlikely they'll let it through.

That doesn't need to hold back LNC cross class though.
They can just allow Lancer CC while not including DRK on the BfB list. In case we forget, cross class skills don't come part and parcel.
The skills themselves designate which classes/jobs can take from them.

LNC would be great, but unfortunately it also seems like a stretch to change our cross class at this point.
It would help a lot though.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

They probably won't want BfB on DRK even though it can be used for smart play.
The way SE talked about using HP as a DRK for skills, makes me think they don't want things that don't fit a tank's primary role (like a skill that increases damage taken).

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GLA has access to BfB. So I don't feel that what you are saying is what SE is thinking.

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Originally Posted by Domira

GLA has access to BfB. So I don't feel that what you are saying is what SE is thinking.

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Classes don't really count. GLA isn't PLD, so it's pretty irrelevant.
The classes are meant to get everything, the jobs are meant to pigeon hole into roles.

Not saying I know what they're thinking, either. Just that they've stated their against that sort of thing directly already.
It's not necessarily the same, but it's at least some indication.

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Originally Posted by Domira

Then don't group with them.

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Tell that to Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

Riposte
Guarantees a parry on the next 2 incoming attacks. The second parry is at 50% of the parry strength of the first. Each parry immediately triggers a 100? potency counter attack.
//Vanquish Effect: Restores MP equivalent to the amount of damage each counter did.
//Grit Effect: Restores TP equivalent to the amount of damage each counter did.
30? Second Cooldown.

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Not gonna comment on the post as a whole plenty have.. But this is OP as all hell.

If things hit for 100 sure. but your talking about a skill that WOULD fill your TP or mana to full every 30 seconds. Ignoring the fact that the mana portion would be largely worthless due to needing to parry while in a dps stance.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Not gonna comment on the post as a whole plenty have.. But this is OP as all hell.

If things hit for 100 sure. but your talking about a skill that WOULD fill your TP or mana to full every 30 seconds. Ignoring the fact that the mana portion would be largely worthless due to needing to parry while in a dps stance.

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You might want to at least read the whole post then. Or at least just what is in bold. (It's bold for a reason)

Also, there is plenty of reason to tank outside of a tanking stance.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

You might want to at least read the whole post then. Or at least just what is in bold. (It's bold for a reason)

Also, there is plenty of reason to tank outside of a tanking stance.

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I did read the whole post. It says numbers are placeholders. I'm giving feedback that they need to be drastically reduced in the TP department and giving feedback that a ripo ability in an offensive stance is misplaced. Assuming the whole offensive stance idea went ahead make it a 2 hit offensive attack that restores MP similar to sipon. Makes far more sense.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

I did read the whole post. It says numbers are placeholders. I'm giving feedback that they need to be drastically reduced in the TP department and giving feedback that a ripo ability in an offensive stance is misplaced. Assuming the whole offensive stance idea went ahead make it a 2 hit offensive attack that restores MP similar to sipon. Makes far more sense.

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I could see the TP becoming a problem if it's implemented like that, sure, and it'd probably really also lead to having some really unusual amounts of TP. A flat rate would probably be better. Yet at the same time though, I'm questioning if it'd be a good idea in general to have to rely on one of our on demand tank buster mitigation abilities to restore TP. It may be better suited somewhere else entirely.

And I'd be fine with that offensive version as well, I'd like it a lot better.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

I could see the TP becoming a problem if it's implemented like that, sure, and it'd probably really also lead to having some really unusual amounts of TP. A flat rate would probably be better. Yet at the same time though, I'm questioning if it'd be a good idea in general to have to rely on one of our on demand tank buster mitigation abilities to restore TP. It may be better suited somewhere else entirely.

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Eh... Assuming the fight has a tank buster it would likely be used enough to keep TP steady if it restored a couple hundred.

to be equal to invig it would restore 100 (400 every 120 so 100 every 30) but you could easily argue bumping it to 200/250 because DRK already have to handle MP as a resource so making TP a "easily managed resource" wouldn't remove resource management from the class.

Even if you had to hold onto it for a 50 sec reuse tank buster or something similar would be plenty to keep you running.

A very easy fix to DRK would be to roll Reprisal's 10% dmg into Delirium. PLD has no CD on Rage of Halone and it reduces STR by 10% all Reprisal does is reduce Physical and Magical by 10%. This would allow both MT and OT's to use DRK's really good debuff without having some gimmicky parry to proc it. It would also cut ability bloat which is always a good thing. A potency nerf maybe needed on Delirium if it was added to it but no big deal there as you would only use it when debuff was falling off anyways. This change alone right there would give DRK a place in a raid no matter what. The DRK could essentially replace a PLD or WAR at that point due to being able to keep there debuff up reliably.

Soul Eater should be around 450-475 potency IMO and instead of healing give a shield for the amount healed. This would give mitigation rather than self healing which we all know self healing will never work on a tank due to having 16K hp and only healing for 1.5K every 6 seconds. Maybe if i'm getting hit for 1-2K every 2 seconds it would work but tank buster's hitting for 10-12K yea self healing is crap. Give me a shield that reduces that dmg by 1.5K or so and stacks with other shields works much better.

Outside of that I think the DRK is fine we just need to give it a place and telling us Magic Damage will be more prominent in raids doesn't work for me. Okay I have dark mind that reduces Magic Damage by 30% if I use dark arts Well guess what rampart does it to and is only 20 seconds longer on a cd. Granted rampart is 20% but still when you compare Dark Mind to Rampart it isn't much of a comparison.

I kind of like Soul Eater. I just think it should be removed from Dark Arts and have a higher potency. We have too many abilities for Dark Arts. The healing actually helps, an option to charge up the attack by holding it would be a great feature too, so you can swing as soon as you need that healing.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I kind of like Soul Eater. I just think it should be removed from Dark Arts and have a higher potency. We have too many abilities for Dark Arts. The healing actually helps, an option to charge up the attack by holding it would be a great feature too, so you can swing as soon as you need that healing.

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I'd prefer if Soul Eater's DA not only gave us HP back, if it would also add a DoT that does damage to the enemy and gives us HP healing for exactly how much it's ticking for. Unsure if that's a weird idea or a bad idea, I'm just giving suggestions.

Both cases are asking for a bit much. I for one enjoy managing DRK's MP. The key issue here is making that management worth it.

I think one thing that could go a long way would be having DA SE add a shield on top of the heal (maybe cut back the actual heal a bit or something), similar to adloquium. That would give DRK a potent mitigation tool that it had previously been missing.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Both cases are asking for a bit much. I for one enjoy managing DRK's MP. The key issue here is making that management worth it.

I think one thing that could go a long way would be having DA SE add a shield on top of the heal (maybe cut back the actual heal a bit or something), similar to adloquium. That would give DRK a potent mitigation tool that it had previously been missing.

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I actually suggested this in an earlier post in the thread. Except apply it to damaging abilities that got buffed by DA. Hence dmg shield from AD as well but a weaker shield like 10% of dmg to be shielded

Another over powering set of suggestions. DRKs have some problems but its not your potency as a class, or even your defenses. You have some strange theme issues and an issue with certain powers replacing other ones (Abyssal Drain/Unmend, etc).

You have an OT/MT debuff which Alexander has proven is quite good. Reprisal is just jelly WHEN you are tanking. Basically you get your rage of halone magic down and then reprisal which you can throw out if the target seems to use physical attacks (which is quite powerful). Its not meant to be parity for storm combos off warriors, since that IS their damage debuff.

You have weaker cds--yes, but you have access to far shorter cds. Dark Mind on 60 seconds. Dark Dance on 60 seconds?

Core potencies on your abilities are fantastic. Shield lob is 120. Your version? 150? Aggro combo on paladin is 240---on DRK? 300. Your damage WHILE tanking is quite great--better than either other tank. When it comes to off tank, you do not do as well as warrior (not even close--but warriors are amazing OT's) but you are still ahead of Paladins.

There are places you excel at, others you do not. You are not meant to have parity---look at Paladins. No real aoe, no real burst, no real mobility. They have plenty of downsides--and plenty of upsides. If you compare your weaknesses to the strengths of other classes (paladins--mitigation, or warriors and off tanking) then you will think you are quite weak, but are missing the point of looking at dark as a complete class. You have a tool kit thats quite good, and its obviously a first pass--but suggesting such massive over powering ideas are I feel, implicit that you are completely unaware of how other classes actually play and how OP you would be. Everyone would just be dark knights if even half of these suggestions went live--and that is not the sort of game anyone wants.