My problem is not with the idea of jumping. If you'll notice, it's the fact that even after the first 2-3 threads about jumping were being pushed back into the grey area, other people don't bother looking up that material, they just post another thread for no obscure reason and give stupid reasons as to why we should have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChuck
Only on a Final Fantasy Forum...
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03-11-2011, 03:12 PMMagicofGaia
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03-11-2011, 03:13 PMAbriaelInstead of telling people to "stuff it", what about trying to discuss as grown ups? Something like, just to bring an example, you explaining why the screen time dedicated to any kind of jumping actions is absolutely minimal and negligible in that kind of movies as opposed to, you know, any kind of other way of deambulation? Walking, running, even crawling?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
Mind you, I know why, but I'm sure you can get there without me telling you :D
if you can't get it by yourself, I'll help. Look below and squint.
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(SPOILER)
Because in 99.9% of situations, unless absolutely necessary, jumping looks stupid.
(/SPOILER) -
03-11-2011, 03:16 PMWynn
It doesn't matter what your argument is. It is there. I can pull down countless other examples.
Forum warriors make me giggle. -
03-11-2011, 03:21 PMAbriaelYou can giggle all you want. It wouldn't make you less wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
There's quite a big difference between jumping across an abyss when there's no other option, and jumping around like a schoolgirl when there's absolutely no reason to do that.
The first thing can easily be emulated by a situational jump feature, not controlled by the player. The second is exactly what would happen if a jump key would be implemented in the game.
Option 1: looks better (dedicated animation), looks realistic, doesn't look idiotic.
Option 2: looks out of place and simply stupid.
It's really that simple. But do giggle on, mate. That's what people do when they lack solid arguments. And few things are more hilarious. -
03-11-2011, 03:31 PMRhianuI like how you pull a random number out of the air while simultaneously touting around your opinion of aesthetics as if they were fact. It totally gives a ton of support to your side of the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
By the way, what's your opinion on the /dance emotes in FFXI? They all have quite a few jumps interwoven into their animations... -
03-11-2011, 03:37 PMAbriaelWould you prefer me to use "In an overwhelming majority of situations"? It's not that different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhianu
Oh really now? Is that your definition of "jumps"? Those are light skips at best, and very well confined in a precise, hardcoded situation.Quote:
By the way, what's your opinion on the /dance emotes in FFXI? They all have quite a few jumps interwoven into their animations...
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03-11-2011, 03:43 PMBenedictionQuote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
oh lawd lol -
03-11-2011, 03:44 PMTinydog
whether or not the topic is about jumping or gameplay, the number one fact is SQUARE ENIX aka SE has put out a horrible MMO. And if this was a pay to play no1 would even care what they did.
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03-11-2011, 03:47 PMAbriaelI smell a troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinydog
Are you perchance mad that many people still play and enjoy this MMORPG? Though luck, mate. -
03-11-2011, 03:47 PMBenediction
Man, I'd totally wanna see FFXIV fail just to see Abriel QQ
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03-11-2011, 03:50 PMAbriaelConsidering that my "to play" pile is currently 29 games tall, I doubt I would have any time for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benediction
Some people are able to readily move on. Looks like some others aren't, and feel the need to come troll the forums of a game they hate, because they don't have anything better to do with their life.
Shogun 2 is out in four days, Yakuza 4 immediately after. That's 31. Oh boy... -
03-11-2011, 03:52 PMRentahamsterWell, then it's a good thing we want Triple Triad back, not Tetra Master.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimahri
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03-11-2011, 03:54 PMShinChuckActually, I've studied Japanese for several years. Regardless, thank you for confirming my point about jumping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
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03-11-2011, 03:58 PMgifthorseGTFO already. There was jumping in the Lord of the Rings films.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-11-2011, 04:00 PMgifthorseOh my god, this wasn't even supposed to be a jump thread when i started it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicofGaia
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03-11-2011, 04:02 PMKurokikaze
I'm not even for or against jumping in this game but I just want to respond something.
To the person that said that Jumping serves no purpose as a gameplay mechanic... Seriously, go play WoW. There are encounters where timed jumping is critical. Jumping out of void zones on the ground as opposed to running through them to take less damage. Jumping so that I get more distance on my Disengage (jump backwards 15 yards). Jumping over gaps in dungeons. All this while fighting bosses.
Just because you haven't seen it used right doesn't mean it won't work. Get your head out of your ass. -
03-11-2011, 04:03 PMAkumuThe devastating power of the Jump Thread consumes all! lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by gifthorse
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03-11-2011, 04:05 PMAbriaelWhat about growing up a little?Quote:
Originally Posted by gifthorse
Do you mean that in the lord of the rings movies people jumped around with no reason at all like people do in MMORPGs in which jumping is enabled?Quote:
There was jumping in the Lord of the Rings films.
There were extremely limited jumping scenes, whose screen time was absolutely negligible compared to any other way of deambulation/movement. And even those negligible scenes were extremely specific, and nowhere generic and casual like MMORPG jumping.
And those encounters look, at best, like silly (and quite gimmicky) comedic relief, turning what should be an epic fight into a laughable mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
You can film one, add the music from the Benny Hill show, and it would fit perfectly.
Mind you, that may be even considered appropriate to wow, given it's art and story style, that stray from the serious in quite a radical way.
Luckily Final Fantasy is supposed to be and look a tad more epic than that. -
03-11-2011, 04:06 PMRhianuIt's still a completely false statement, and still assumes a majority of something that is not actually a majority at all, so yes, I suppose it really wouldn't be all that different to say that instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
So how high does a jump have to be in order to qualify as a jump?Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-11-2011, 04:10 PMBenedictionLmao... seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
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03-11-2011, 04:12 PMAmyRaeYeah, like all those dragoons in all those other Final Fantasy titles. What goofs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Much more realistic to be stopped by a one foot tall ledge, anyway. No one could possibly surmount that in real life... You'd have to be an Olympic athlete or something. -
03-11-2011, 04:13 PMKilta_Firelotusi can list 5 ffxi benny hill youtube movies. 2 ppl play video games to do stuff they can't do in real life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-11-2011, 04:15 PMAbriaelOh really? Are you telling me that in fantasy movies and/or literature, jumping scenes are more/get more screen time than other kinds of movement? because if you do, sorry to say, I have to take a pause to rotfl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhianu
Actually quite a few sports define a jump as a muscular effort that lifts your feet above the previous level of your knees. The definition varies, but I doubt many would use the term "jump" to define a light skips as featured by FFXIV's dance emotes.Quote:
So how high does a jump have to be in order to qualify as a jump?
And your ability to support a polite argumented discussion when faced with solid counterpoints is, quite evidently, zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
Not that it's the first time. Hopefully you'll be dealt with accordingly by the moderators, as per forum rules. -
03-11-2011, 04:16 PMKilta_Firelotus
will the jump thread comsume them alll.
and ppl misunderstand immersion for realism.
And not under standing the POINT of a video game
sorry i like to jump off a 10 foot tall ledge in Fable because I can't do it normally and make my hero you know... heroic. The fact they survice such a fall is amazing.
again only in an ffxiv forum will you have this :3 -
03-11-2011, 04:17 PMTinydoggetting mad over a video game is pretty lame but ya mad that im mad so idk what to tell ya. hey i was like you, i tried to play the game cuz i use to play ffxi and was a fan. but for real ill still try and hope it succeeds, but at the moment its not even close to. lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-11-2011, 04:18 PMKaedan
Dragon Age: Origins
and
Dragon Age 2
They don't have jump.
Just saying... >.> -
03-11-2011, 04:20 PMAbriaelDo you mean that jumping (as normally implemented in MMORPGs, with a generic animation that has nothing to do with anything even nearly scenic), looks heroic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
Boy, we sure don't share the same definition of "heroic". I guess that's the main problem. -
03-11-2011, 04:20 PMValentia
Here's a tip: Don't eat the yellow snow. End of thread. :p
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03-11-2011, 04:24 PMAmyRaeDemon's Souls didn't either, though it have falling and you could pull yourself up over a ledge. I'd be okay with even that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
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03-11-2011, 04:26 PMAbriaelI'd be very ok with that. Actually I (and many others) proposed that solution (alongside with a mitigantion of the limits of climbing UP ledges) in multiple places, including this and the beta forum. It doesn't make much sense to have ledges with invisible walls.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
That would solve basically every problem. Unfortunately some seem adamant that their MMORPG experience isn't complete unless they can spam <SPACEBAR> over and over. -
03-11-2011, 04:27 PMKaedanI was mostly just making light of the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
I would have no problem adding a manual jump with several restrictions that I've mentioned. -
03-11-2011, 04:28 PMgifthorseJesus, just look at the intro movie for FFXIV itself or the final R46 storyline quest for jumping which is ALREADY in FFXIV... just players can't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-11-2011, 04:35 PMAbriaelYou seem to be quite confused about the difference between staged/directed acrobatics and random/ generic jumping.Quote:
Originally Posted by gifthorse
Luckily, at least from what Yoshida says, players will probably never be able to do the second. And boy, it's a good thing. -
03-11-2011, 04:39 PMRhianuMy only reason for promoting standard jumping over contextual jumping is because I think standard jumping would be quicker and easier to implement, and FFXIV needs to get fixed as quickly as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Aww, I wanted Assassin's Creed aerobatics. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-11-2011, 04:39 PMKurokikazeIf you can honestly say that you consider that response a solid and well thought out counterpoint then you would not even make a 4th grade debate team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-11-2011, 04:44 PMAbriaelI would argue that implementing any kind of jumping doesn't fall between the necessary actions to "fix" the game. There are tons of things more urgent than that. Even simple content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhianu
I'd say it's more important to have something constructive to do with our time than being able to kill time by spamming spacebar.
If the problem is map design and the silly ledges that plague such maps, an even easier and faster solution is tp allow players to drop down from a much higher level, and raise the level difference they can climb up as well. There's isn't even the need to implement a new animation (which involves quite a bit of work between motion capture, syncronization and so forth).
Actually I would say many of the Assassin's creed acrobatics fall into the "staged/directed" category (in fact most of them need a predetermined environment element to be executed from/with/against, at least until AC2, since I still didn't have a chance to play Brotherhood).Quote:
Awe, I wanted Assassin's Creed aerobatics. :(
You seem to think that gratuitously insulting and attacking your counterpart on the personal level is the right way to make the 4th grade debate team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
I wouldn't know honestly. We don't have "debate teams" here in Italy, and my only experience on the subject comes from silly sitcoms from the early nineties. So you probably know better than me. -
03-11-2011, 04:58 PMKilta_Firelotus
Unfortunately some seem adamant that their MMORPG experience isn't complete unless they can spam <SPACEBAR> over and over.
that was not even true.... even in WoW. Go actually play the game and count them out. In 2 years I saw at most 3-5. and it was few and far apart.
really the jump spammer was a myth. And who cares what other ppl do.
It in reality NOT breaking your immersion. Just your realism No one can break your immersion. Unless your mom calls you down so you eat your cheesy poofs and pot pie. Immersion is intercting with in an enviroment other then your own. Like reading a book and becoming that character in your imgagination or how those places look.
Immersion in video games are how much you can interect with the enviroment. So jumping since it increases enviromently interaction ADDS immersion. -
03-11-2011, 05:05 PMKilta_Firelotus
Aberial get off with the space bar spaming myth not many in WoW actually did it. maybe 2/1000 ppl if anything. I played WoW for 1-2 years. And Aion for 6 mnths and PWI for 6 mnths. And spam jumping was rare.
Ando who cares about "other stuff is importent" jumping can ADD content. They can make jumping importent. the point of these forums simply put is to tell devs what we want to see or feel will make this game fun. Jumping can make a game fun. No game adds something for sake of.
And again WoW RARELY had spam jumpers and those wanting jump are not wanting it just to soam it really get off that un true myth. -
03-11-2011, 05:14 PMAbriaelAre you seriously trying to tell me what breaks my immersion? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
Bunny Hopping and even more visual non-functional griefing derived from bunny hopping have never been a myth. They existed and exist in many MMORPGs (not nearly only wow), and even in several other online games (shooters for instance).
Jumping is interacting with the environment only when there's an appropriate environment to interact with, and when the jumping animation actually interacts with that environment (unlike basically every MMORPG out there). Random, generic jumping interacts with nothing else than my eyes, making them bleed. -
03-11-2011, 05:29 PMKilta_Firelotus
so explain to me how someone else jumping is causing you not to interect with the enviroment aound you? Which is what immersion is
What you are talking about isn't immersion, its realism. You hate bunny hoppy because to you it isn't realistic. And I played several mmo with jumping. And seeing a bunny hopper was rare. And if I did, oh well. I play along with it and just considere them a villiage idiot. They add diversity to the norm and can be fun to watch.
Oh and more on you 4 ft ledges and such ever heeard of free running? Its when you do stunts in a form ranged area likr running around roof tops and jumping building to building.
So again no it don't break your immersion just your realism.