MCH worth my time?

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Originally Posted by Thunda51

I understand that the DPS shouldn't be on par with a Monk but it shouldn't be this low. Yeah we can regen MP/TP but at a cost, at least on the BRD end of things. But at the same time the regen of MCH is a joke. There's no reason why ranged classes should be this weak. Okay so we can move, so can Ninja and they're putting out decent DPS. The only difference is obviously they have to be close to the target. But hey they can dodge. People trip out about mobility way too much. If ranged physical DPS classes struggle to meet DPS checks and are being booted from EX runs constantly then there's an issue.

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Oh we are mobile?

Gauss Barrel and WM would like to have a word with you.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

Oh we are mobile?

Gauss Barrel and WM would like to have a word with you.

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I'm not on speaking terms with GB and WM because of their lack of production.

i really hate the people saying that we shouldn't be able to do decent damage because were a dps/support job is getting old, we should be able to pull are weight in dmg just like any job because at the end of the day its the raid boss what were up against.

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Originally Posted by XgungraveX

i really hate the people saying that we shouldn't be able to do decent damage because were a dps/support job is getting old, we should be able to pull are weight in dmg just like any job because at the end of the day its the raid boss what were up against.

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Agreed. It's especially annoying when you call them out on their own support abilities and they fire back with some straw man argument. If ranged gets competitive DPS, I really don't see BRDs or MCHs being the only thing brought to raids. DRG will still have their awesome 15% crit buff. NIN will still being a good, single target TP regen that doesn't lower their DPS by 15% as well as enmity control and damage increasing buffs for the party. People will want a mix.

I think it's really easy to explain : all DPS classes, and even tanks, got new skills with Heavensward to increase their DPS. Except Bards (their new skills are almost a decrease in DPS), still stuck to a lvl 50 DPS. MCH seem even worse.

OK to have a little less power, like in 2.5. Not OK to be the only ones stuck at lvl 50 while the others have fun with their great new lvl 60 skills. Personally, I didn't play my BRD in Heavensward yet (not worth it) and gave up on the MCH. I'll stick to PLD and DRK (we don't have enough DRK after all...) for now. There is a lot to do, no time to waste with trash classes.

I was BRD main job back in ARR, leveled MCH to 60 and i must say, in his curent state, this job is useless and its the reason we see MCH being kicker from PUG groups.

DPS is far too low and the "support" skills are not worth it if we look what the BRD can do (hello requiem!).

For now, i will just stick with the MCH until i got another job ready for end game and will probably never use this gimpy job again. Problem is, BRD also seems gimp now ><

So i might as well go back on BLM since its what SE seems to want! Ranged physical DPS are not supposed to have cast time, this is ridiculous!

We got skill to increase our dps-- gauss round and ricochet are really good skills. The problem is that Gauss Barrel, which was also supposed to be a dps increase, ended up hurting us instead. You fix GB to do what it was supposed to do and we'd be good.

don't lisen to elitist easytoplay classes, SE designed the job MCH it got's pro and cons like every job, it will get a buff (hopefully) and people need to get better as players with their own jobs and working with others players with different jobs as well. Choose the class you want, doesn't matter if you are playing well or not you will face rude players and bad raids runs sometimes anyway.

There is a huge stigma against mch, and with any game, stigmas don't go away even with changes, for a long, long time. The answer you are looking for is no.

I was looking forward to playing MCH more than anything else with the expansion but I have put on hold any desire to start one until SE fixes them. My main is a bard which already needs fixing in terms of WM/DPS due to a combination of low WD, some poor skill design and potency issues (thankfully SE have acknowledged there is a problem but I await their attempts to fix it) so the idea of starting the other poorly balanced class aka machinist does not fill me with glee at the moment. The basic principles behind the machinist class I am fine with but when the difficulty does not match the reward in terms of class competence at a design level as opposed to player competence then there is a major problem, one that I will wait till SE fixes before starting one myself.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

There is a huge stigma against mch, and with any game, stigmas don't go away even with changes, for a long, long time. The answer you are looking for is no.

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The only stigma present is coming from idiots copypasting nonsense from the usual elitist forums. That Party Finder groups are preemptively excluding MCH from groups says a lot about the character of these folks. It reeks of FFXI elitism and needs to be stopped by the developers.

MCH and BRD may need some work in terms of damage output but to hear some of these Chicken Littles on the forum, you'd think SE intended to make both jobs unplayable.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

The only stigma present is coming from idiots copypasting nonsense from the usual elitist forums. That Party Finder groups are preemptively excluding MCH from groups says a lot about the character of these folks. It reeks of FFXI elitism and needs to be stopped by the developers.

MCH and BRD may need some work in terms of damage output but to hear some of these Chicken Littles on the forum, you'd think SE intended to make both jobs unplayable.

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While often times people do blow things out of proportion, mch IS being outdamaged by offtanks, and that IS a serious, matter even if they can clear all current content unlike what some would have you believe. The exclusion matter is bad and pre-emptive from people who don't really understand whats needed to clear these bosses, but at least it brings the real issue at hand to se quicker.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

While often times people do blow things out of proportion, mch IS being outdamaged by offtanks, and that IS a serious, matter even if they can clear all current content unlike what some would have you believe. The exclusion matter is bad and pre-emptive from people who don't really understand whats needed to clear these bosses, but at least it brings the real issue at hand to se quicker.

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All of this. We don't need to pretend there's not a problem. The more people fuss, the quicker it gets realized / fixed.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

All of this. We don't need to pretend there's not a problem. The more people fuss, the quicker it gets realized / fixed.

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It MAY get fixed faster. I remember how long it took for Druid issues to be fixed in WoW. But I also agree with Hayward, when people are constantly bemoaning a class, it leaves a really bad impression on everyone else and it's what leads to them being excluded. It turns from "MCH have low DPS" to "MCH can't clear content because their DPS is so low", which isn't true, of course. In some ways, we're our own worst enemy.

Best thing to do is keep giving good feedback on our issues instead of making all these RIP MCH threads. The latter just hurts us more and more.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

It MAY get fixed faster. I remember how long it took for Druid issues to be fixed in WoW. But I also agree with Hayward, when people are constantly bemoaning a class, it leaves a really bad impression on everyone else and it's what leads to them being excluded. It turns from "MCH have low DPS" to "MCH can't clear content because their DPS is so low", which isn't true, of course. In some ways, we're our own worst enemy.

Best thing to do is keep giving good feedback on our issues instead of making all these RIP MCH threads. The latter just hurts us more and more.

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I don't think the bad stigma thing is as much of an issue in this game as in FFXI. When WAR got fixed, the hate thrown my way for my job choice went away almost immediately. SMN got buffed and the negative impressions people had of that job went away immediately. Nothing in this game after a fix has had quite the same long-lastging stigma as lolBST, lolDRG, and lolPUP did in FFXI even when BSTs properly played didn't "steal" party experience, up until the point where they made an entire expansion basically weak to DRG's thrusting damage, and even still despite PUP with RNG frame outparsing traditional damage dealer jobs leveling in Aht Urgan on everyone's favorite bird, the colibri.

So I don't fear much for negative stigma persisting in this game after a fix based on past experiences.

Is getting kicked from a group due to being a MCH even ok?

Couldn't you report someone, or would it be pointless due to fact you can't prove that is why you got kicked?

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Originally Posted by Giyari

Is getting kicked from a group due to being a MCH even ok?

Couldn't you report someone, or would it be pointless due to fact you can't prove that is why you got kicked?

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Party finder groups are actually allowed to pick and chose what DPS they take outright, so I wouldn't be shocked about kicks being dealt out being "okay".

Like literally if a PF group doing BisEX wanted to exclude machinist rather than kick they could just instead allow every DPs OTHER THAN Bard/MCH to join their group. This is something I see frequerntly.

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Originally Posted by Aerya

OK to have a little less power, like in 2.5. Not OK to be the only ones stuck at lvl 50 while the others have fun with their great new lvl 60 skills. Personally, I didn't play my BRD in Heavensward yet (not worth it) and gave up on the MCH.There is a lot to do, no time to waste with trash classes.

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+1
Since the release, I have been playing BRD and MCH day by day, killing Bis Ex and Ravana Ex, I think Im doing a really good job with BRD and MCH, but when I check my parser I really feel Im being "rushed" by real DPSs like DRG, BLM, SMN, NIN or MNK. My DPS is just like 15-20% lower than top DPS, but I'm not giving TP or MP regen, my party dont need it, then Im doing full DPS...SE hasn't said anything about MCH boost or MCH changes...I don't expect changes at soon to be honest, I would like to keep playing with my mates and dont feel that my group is carring my...If I'm taking a DPS spot I would like to do DPS...
Reroll to another job is a good idea I think.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

The only stigma present is coming from idiots copypasting nonsense from the usual elitist forums. That Party Finder groups are preemptively excluding MCH from groups says a lot about the character of these folks. It reeks of FFXI elitism and needs to be stopped by the developers.

MCH and BRD may need some work in terms of damage output but to hear some of these Chicken Littles on the forum, you'd think SE intended to make both jobs unplayable.

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The reality is though, why the stigma is around is rather irrelevant. The fact is the stigma IS there and has some pretty damn good reasons for being there. You cannot argue the matter is hyperbole when tanks can literally out-DPS a supposed DPS class.

It's worth your time.

If you truly enjoy the class then just play it. We'll probably get to see some changes before Alexander savage comes out since Alexander normal mode will be as "hard" as extreme primal. The class wont probably be left behind, but they need actual data to see the weight of a machinist/bard in a 8 man group.

I don't see why it's low dmg. It should be lower only when using tp or mp regen, which it does anyway due to the turret stopping damage.