Bad players in Heavensward dungeons

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Originally Posted by Sartori

So who are you to decide who's good and who's bad?

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probably someone with a parser and/or common sense

I must be getting lucky, and now I just realized how lucky I am, as I have yet to meet a bad player in DF since the expansion. Sure met a ton before Heavensward, but now I've only met people I wouldn't mind grouping up with in other dungeons. All had either outrageous talent with their class or incredible personalities and great talent.

I spent over 40-50 mins in a dungeons only for the group to disband at the last boss cause the tank kept taking vulnerability debuff and couldn't move out of glowing platforms.... It was common sense to just not stand on those, and the healer was spamming cure 2 all day every day he ran out of mana in the first minute of the fight. We tried 4-5 more times with me explaining how the fight works but nope. Then the tank vote abandons and since 2/4 for vote abandon, all of my effort in those 40-50 mins now gone :(

oh yeah also i died over 6 times, just getting aggro from the dungeon mobs... even with quelling, it was very sad.....

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Im so glad someone else notices this. It gets really annoying when i speedrun lvl 60 Dungeons and defensive cds are nowhere to be seen.

I sure can heal through its no big deal for me but still, if y ou make it easier so i get more time to DPS that would allow us to speed up that run even further.

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finally someone esle that notices this, when playing AST is so much important that the tanks use their CDs properly, but nooo they expect an healer to heal them no matter what, whereas an AST when facing those kind of situation is not in a position to keep a tank properly, I had one like that in AV, I didnt draw a single time a card, couldnt, no time to do so.

Mei

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

http://i.imgur.com/w8ro9.gif

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This had made my day. Thank you.

Not so much as bad players, just meeting people with new classes that have yet to master them, like, I've done some dungeons as a DRK, and playing alongside a Astrologian , they call me squishy and not a good of a tank as a Paladin/Warrior and we wipe a few times, then I play alongside a WHM and we speed through mobs/bosses like no one business.

I meet people named Vongigglypants in dungeons. We have good times together with joking and fun all around. I pretty much either meet people like that, or the silent type who don't say anything, but also don't complain if we wipe 1 time because I'm learning a class. Can't say I've met any really horrible people in 3.0 yet. Then again, I gotta do the first primal fight today, and those always bring out the worst in people for some reason. Guess I'll find out then.

When I had an AST run OFF the platform in the Ravana trial. O.o "wut"

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Originally Posted by Kayote

Bad healers, bad DPS taking his sweet time between spells (I suspect theyre controller players), Tanks not avoiding easy damage or just using the MP regen attack, no flash, no WAR aggro AoE (wtf? seriously!) ... its just aggravating.

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Don't knock the controller, after breaking one in you should be more efficient than a KB/mouse player. It's just a matter of setting the buttons up right and getting used to it.

I haven't seen many horrible players, but I have seen a few BLM that don't use AoE... Flare was nerfed, Fire I was buffed, guess I'll attack the 5 mobs in a nice little cluster with Fire I.

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Originally Posted by Kayote

Had this myself the other day with Garuda... back to back too. Thank Hydaelyn for the fast DPS queues. Bad healers, bad DPS taking his sweet time between spells (I suspect theyre controller players)

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Have you tried to play this game with a controller yet? I switch between keyboard + mouse and controller depending on the job I'm playing. Controllers are better for dps roles in my books, the only job that has an advantage on Keyboard and Mouse is Scholar as it gives you greater pet control.

I've only had problems so far in fighting Lord Ravana...my first party attempted it but just didn't seem to have the dps...I'm honestly not sure if this was a case of bad players or just low deeps from low levels...? It seemed to me like people were switching to the proper targets on time, but I was busy healing, so I can't say for sure.

Otherwise, I've had a lot of fun and haven't had much trouble with people or content/mechanics yet!

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

Have you tried to play this game with a controller yet? I switch between keyboard + mouse and controller depending on the job I'm playing. Controllers are better for dps roles in my books, the only job that has an advantage on Keyboard and Mouse is Scholar as it gives you greater pet control.

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/shrug not really knocking it controllers can play just as well. I simply said that because I did try controller for a while. Still do on a low level alt I play at off times. The targeting for me is a bit slow if not somewhat confusing. Not to mention the switching between crosspad sets. Specially when switching from a KB. I could definitely be wrong. Just a thought I had while looking at this SMN just staring at the plumes for 3-5 seconds before casting again.

I have been that bad player twice now...fell/got punted off during both trials. XD What's funny is, I'm a pretty solid progression player capable of carrying people through content and such, I just had two idiot moments where I didn't pay attention to the arena (first time doing both trials, BTW. No deaths on subsequent runs).

Moral of the story: even "good" players can seem "bad" just from making a few careless mistakes. No need to judge.

was doing sohm al, leveling up mch or such. and we ended up abandoning, cause..well we couldn't beat the last boss.
during EA when i was rushing through all this, we just one shot everything, without really knowing what to expect. don't really know why ppl have such problems with this....most of the stuff is re-used mechanics - if you gotten this far, you really need to be able to figure out what's going on...
Even when the mechanics were clearly explained, the healer and other DD just kept wiping to comets....as if it's difficult to tell, that you should run away from a pulsing AOE?

The only bad experience I've had in a HW dungeon so far was in a run of the Aery and the healer was like "nope not doing it" and decided to DC until we kicked them, instead of just, y'know, leaving.
After we got a new healer the run only took like, 20 minutes with no deaths and no wipes. So their loss.

Last boss in the Aery spawns some dreadful things. Like tank getting pissy at dd for not killing the adds fast enough. Or dd not breaking each other out on prisons. Or Tank refusing to go sword stance to help with adds.
I just want to get the dungeon done, why can't we just stop pointing fingers guys.
Just blame the healer, it's what were used to so we can get shit done. lol

Wondering if I was that healer in OP's Aery run, because I had a group with the same composition and the same issue on Nidhogg's adds.

In another run I had a WAR tank with full strength body pieces, fending accessories, and tanked trash in battlestance and bosses in defiance. I mean, I don't tank anything beyond guildhests and low level instances, but I'm pretty sure that's not the optimal way to do it unless you want your healer to hate you.

The only real bads I've encountered thus far in the Duty Finder was Bismark, where both healers refused to heal me on my Machinist during the back phases. Then they proceeded to call me out and claim the wipes were my fault, where i'd died at exactly the same point to lack of heals on all 3 attempts to that point ... Even used potions FFS. (That point being Atmospheric Disruption, which i assume was happening because i was on Bismarks back with everyone else)
Disclaimer: Dodged every tornado, and only got hit by one blast that was .. odd, didn't see it, just suddenly keeled over dead with 6300 damage taken in the log from something.

The tanks seem quite decent, no issues really. The DPS don't do the best damage. I have been in multiple dungeons where the other DPS hit like a wet paper towel. I'm assuming it's all those new or returning players just not knowing anything about their job. The healers I have the most problems with, especially AST. To me they tend to die a lot and everyone gets in critical HP numbers often or we wipe.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I have been that bad player twice now...fell/got punted off during both trials. XD What's funny is, I'm a pretty solid progression player capable of carrying people through content and such, I just had two idiot moments where I didn't pay attention to the arena (first time doing both trials, BTW. No deaths on subsequent runs).

Moral of the story: even "good" players can seem "bad" just from making a few careless mistakes. No need to judge.

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^ This.
Me and a fc member are always carrying people through content (you know the types of people, who never listen/learn lol), yet when we did Ravana, we both ended up falling off and got carried lol all because of a very VERY small bad positioning. I hit the wall, but it slide me around the corner of it and off >_> I felt terrible for being dead the whole fight, but I guess after carrying so many people, it was my turn to get carried for once XD

>_> Tbh, I can't wait until more people learn about mch, because one of the wipes (took us 3 tries), I was dead from lack of cures, so I'm sitting there dead for a good 3-4 mins, then both healers started running dry on mp and who do they raise? The drg. Who can give them ballad and isn't getting a raise? The mch

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Originally Posted by Fatshine

The tanks seem quite decent, no issues really. The DPS don't do the best damage. I have been in multiple dungeons where the other DPS hit like a wet paper towel. I'm assuming it's all those new or returning players just not knowing anything about their job. The healers I have the most problems with, especially AST. To me they tend do die a lot and everyone gets in critical HP numbers often or we wipe.

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Same experience so far. I had a lot of very bad DPS. Either that or they're lazy.

My issue seems to be at low level, interestingly enough.

Though the tanks working on the 50-60 content seem fine, the experienced tanks that have paladin or warrior already in that bracket are working on dark knight. For whatever the reason, I've gone through three dungeons on my machinist where the dark knight seems to oddly forget that they're not on their level 60 warrior and mass pull the entire room. 30 seconds later, they're dead and they've killed everyone else. I've had to be the spoken reminder of, "Slow down, please."

One of these dark knights was dressed in nearly all DPS gear rather than anything that would benefit a tank. Rushed in, went out like a fizzling firework, and took the party members down with him.

As a kind reminder to those leveling the new classes, but are game experienced; please remember that you're level 30 and you're not properly geared for that kind of strategy.

This is why I'm kind of hesitant to start off with DRK in the new content, and keep it my main. Players like OP who expect perfection on brand new content. It's absurd to expect that. I'm a brand new tank. This is my first run to cap level with one. I love this job, but I'm not quite sure I want to deal with all the impatient players out there.

The BLM casting was definitely an issue though. By that level, you should at least have a rotation down. New faces running through new content may not understand the content or mechanics, and that is fine. But not knowing the basic functions of your job by level 50 and up is a problem. That I can understand as an issue.

Last night me and a monk had a DK who felt the need to blame the last fight on DPS {when the healer there buddy} made the first wipe happ by not healing that dragoon npc holding the eye. But the DK him self seemed not up to the task of pulling monsters and draining there mp like it was candy. Only to say omg bad crappy dps i'm out you guys suxxxxxxxx waaaaaaaaaa after him and his healer quit we won :P for the record i never cast blame or get mad at ppl this early i mean the game just came out ppl need to chill

I've had to leave two aerys now due to dps not being able to meet the dps check on the final boss. Six + tries and you still fail, people need to learn how to play their jobs.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Well it's only 2 out of many dungeons. Levelled MNK to 60 with MSQ+dungeons, PLD with side quests and more dungeons.

But usually I rare see PLDs using the new abilities. For me ill rotate between RoH and goring blade combos to maintain enity whilst maintaining the dot.Sheltron I pretty much use when its off CD for the guaranteed shield swipe proc.Divine Veil, when I know AE damage is coming.

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I actually use RoH a few times on the pull to frontload a good amount of enmity, then switch off to using Goring Blade and Royal Authority. If enmity starts to slip to dangerous levels, I'll throw a few RoH back in the mix.

My facepalm moment was when someone told me that a Paladin should consider taking RoH off their hotbar. -.-

Most of the people that I've run into in DF have been fine with the exception of one AST that I got in Lost City for high level roulette. I looked at everyone's gear, seemed fine, did the first big pull and... died despite using Hallowed Ground and other cooldowns. I returned and said "Ok, smaller pulls then." The AST replied "lol?" and left the party. I was quite confused. xD

Blm and bismark ex do not go together. Many of already have no blm allowed, and I'm leveling a second dps for it. I have literally been target by 90% of the bubbles and tornados in multiple fights which means no casting for almost whole phases. When I'm targeted maybe 50% of the time my dps is fine bUT that's almost never the case. This isn't a case of titan and learning the fight it's just too much rng and a job that doesn't have movement enhancers anymore. It's not about know the nuances of blm it's just the fight. You can't make those plans in bismark ex. I'm always giving people the same lecture your just gave. You don't need to learn a fight if you know your job. Bismark ex isn't that case when you can be the target of 100% of the aoes that go out less then 2 second after the last one. When a cast time is 2.3. I also never had issues on titan ex due to my ability to plan. I Was Making A Statement Towards The General Population Of blm. If you forgot when titan ex first came out most party finders would not allow blms

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Originally Posted by ChillbroSwaggins

The BLM casting was definitely an issue though. By that level, you should at least have a rotation down. New faces running through new content may not understand the content or mechanics, and that is fine. But not knowing the basic functions of your job by level 50 and up is a problem. That I can understand as an issue.

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It depends on your definition of rotation.

I mean I don't spend all day spamming ice spells or throwing around fire spells willy nilly. I know, on paper, what my rotation is. But in practice as a new player I struggle with things like:

-When is it safe to move?
-How to time movement while still getting off the end of a cast
-Is Flare on single target useful if you are using it with Swiftcast and Convert to prolong astral fire during raging strikes? (I think it feels right but I've had some ah...comments about Flare on a single target ever so I may be wrong)
-developing an instinct for server mp refresh ticks for on the fly rotation adjustments
-realizing the "perfect dummy rotation" isn't a thing in "real world" fights where you may need to move, swap targets, or pool resources for a big attack on an incoming priority one threat
-proper cooldown usage

There are nuances that are second nature to more experienced players but not at all to us newbies. Especially being thrust into content that is extremely movement focused (I understand The Coils have a lot of movement, but a newbie shouldn't be expected to have done the previous expansion's high end raid)

I'm using BLM as an example because that's what I am but the moral of the story is people who only did the MSQ for ARR may not know the many little nuances and tricks of a class. They've done no content that would require them to learn it.

Well many people returned for the expansion and are probably rusty. I myself returned after an 8-month break.

i've been coming across a LOT of dps players who either completely ignore mechanics, then complain when they die, or just sit there basically autoattacking, taking forever to drop bosses, and even trash packs

i dont know what's going on. i did the daily roulette for trials today, and we wiped on bismark 4 times because the dps were all extremely lazy when it came to the adds. failed to kill the two large serpent adds 4 times, and wiped as a result of breech. there is literally no excuse for this

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Last night me and a monk had a DK who felt the need to blame the last fight on DPS {when the healer there buddy} made the first wipe happ by not healing that dragoon npc holding the eye. But the DK him self seemed not up to the task of pulling monsters and draining there mp like it was candy. Only to say omg bad crappy dps i'm out you guys suxxxxxxxx waaaaaaaaaa after him and his healer quit we won :P for the record i never cast blame or get mad at ppl this early i mean the game just came out ppl need to chill

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Well the smaller dragons that rush the npc dragoon can't be aggroed, only the larger ones can.

i always do my dungeon runs via DF even when im farming.. havent had a "BAD" group at all in expansion.. new content new dungeons not every1 has ran it 20 times already.. we wiped once on final boss in vault with 2 new players but next attempt done it with ease.. once people experience rotations once or twice they know what to expect always annoys me when people label other players as "bad" you might think they are bad but some1 else might think your bad ;/

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

I have not had any major issues personally...most people are on doing good and getting through without wipes even on first runs. I know they are all easy but I counted on having massive wipes and just have not seen that yet.

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Same for me.

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Originally Posted by Dinadan

Well the smaller dragons that rush the npc dragoon can't be aggroed, only the larger ones can.

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No this DK failed to pull the big 2 together and just ran up to one :P not that i care i mean wipe 3 times 4 5 idc as long as i get my exp

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Originally Posted by Dinadan

Well the smaller dragons that rush the npc dragoon can't be aggroed, only the larger ones can.

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I chain stun the crap out of them as PLD. Not sure what DRK could do, haven't looked at the job yet.

I keep running out of MP on DRK because I'm watching youtube videos while I tank. Good times.

And this is what happens when you nerfed an excellent trial such as Steps of Faith.

Died again my first time in a dungeon! XD This time I died twice to the first boss in the Great Gubal Library... First time we wiped cuz I died to the first Full Disclosure...second time I understood the mechanic, but had an issue with the ice floor and slid INTO the boss, rather than around it, so died again. -__- We were able to clear because the tank was excellent, though, and rotated CDs while soloing the last 10% or so. Good-natured about it too, though I think the DRG in my party was a little miffed (he immediately went into a launch of the next boss mechanics before we'd even lotted on the first boss' chest).

I keep expecting to see someone from one of my runs complain about me in this thread, lol. I have not been doing well in my first runs of these new dungeons AT ALL. @__@

From my perspective as a WHM the problems usually come from DPS derp moments. Like running all over the place to make sure to take every single AOE right in the face. I saw someone mentioning healers running out of MP - there is basically just one viable reason for that happening. For people who do not know that, rezzing people costs us 2.6k+ MP at Lv60. We cannot afford doing that over and over again during a fight just because you're too lazy to move or you just HAD to get that Fire 4 off. And we also don't really have the time to heal you squishy melee DPS who step into the trash-frontal cone AOEs when the tank does a big pull and gets 6-8k dmg/sec that require our immediate attention. Maybe just dodge them or at least stay in our Asylum bubbles to heal up.
DPS are not and will almost never be priority targets for healing. You really should know that by Lv50+ and have learned to avoid needles damage where you can.

Not that tanks are innocent of taking AOEs to the face, but at least they'll usually survive them, unless e.g. the Grandfather Tree in Neverreap crits them for 14k (yes, seen that happen :P )


Now I realize everyone is new to this content, but dodging shiny glowing stuff on the ground or not stepping on pulsing mines or not jumping in front of Waukkeon on every pass during the add phases are all things that should be possible to do for pretty much everyone. (I'm not even complaining about getting hit by him once or twice, I know his turns can be kinda random and the twisters don't help much either, but come on!)