PROPOSE Machinist Buffs/Changes HERE

Here's a list of changes I'd like to see for the Machinist.
I always thought Machinist would be a beefier Bard, with heavier hitting attacks and some, albeit weaker buffs.

To start, lets look at the 1-2-3 Combo, I have a few ideas on how to address this.
Split-Slug-Clean as it stands have a potency of 140-180-200 respectively, Not only is this the weakest combo set in the game, it has also the smallest potency jumps between skills for a lot more work involved(the RNG proc system)

Weaponskills

Split Shot- Potency 160 Combo into Slug Shot 100% chance
Slug Shot- Potency 260 Combo into Clean shot 50% chance or 100% with ammo.
Clean Shot- Potency 300
Hot Shot- Increase damage dealt by 10%(Or damage by 5% and crit chance 5%)
Spread Shot- Deal damage in cone at 120 potency. 20% chance to proc Grenado shot, 100% with ammo.
Grenado Shot- Only usable with Spread shot proc. Functions same with no TP cost at 180 potency

Part 2
Abilities

Gauss Round- Potency 240 on 15 second cooldown(like bards)
Ricochet- Function like flare,holy,gravity with a potency of 350, degrading by 10% per extra target down to 50%.
Wildfire- 20 second debuff applied to enemy, when attacked with weaponskills, adds a stack of wildfire not resetting duration, once expired, deals damage based on stacks( 30potency/stack?)
Suppressive Fire- Ranged stun shared CD with Head Graze
Head Graze- Silence CD with Suppressive Fire
Blank- function same with bind built in.
Heartbreak- 190 potency on 12second CD(like bards)

Part 3
Utility/Buffs

Gauss Barrel- Increase damage dealt by 30%, Auto attacks continue and skills require cast times, effect canceled if character moves. 60 second CD, Instant cast.(kind of like a twist on ley lines)
Rook Turret- Same
Bishop Turret- Same
Promotion- Same(Maybe place a light ring or barrier for effect area)
Hypercharge- Increase damage taken physical/magical by 10%
Reassemble- Same
Rapid Fire- increase to 5 attacks?
Reload- Load ammunition into barrel (3 stacks), 1 Stack used with Slug shot and Spread shot to guarantee clean shot or grenado shot proc. Cooldown 60Seconds.
Quick Reload- Same
Dismantle- Lower physical damage dealt by 10%
Rend mind- Lower Magical damage dealth by 10%
leg graze- Same
Foot Graze- Removed

Maybe it's a little overpowered with these numbers, perhaps not, but I think given something similar to this, sustained dps will be much improved and burst increased even further.

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Originally Posted by Azostar

Last and most importantly. Give the damn pack on our waist different models. I don't like the fact it doesn't change with my character, I have to glamour around that pack now so it doesn't clash with my gear.

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And different models for the turrets too!!!!!! I mean... I have this cool mog gun, it'd make sens to have a mog turret!!! Do it :D

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Originally Posted by popotaro

And different models for the turrets too!!!!!! I mean... I have this cool mog gun, it'd make sens to have a mog turret!!! Do it :D

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That's a pretty nice suggestion. And for the hip pack they could either do like with crafters where their table design gradually changes. Or alternatively make a glamour only item for the off hand slot to customize the look.

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Originally Posted by RhynAzullo

That's a pretty nice suggestion. And for the hip pack they could either do like with crafters where their table design gradually changes. Or alternatively make a glamour only item for the off hand slot to customize the look.

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Anyway they already have the mog model so it would be easy to do

Well, I'll throw in my 2c.

Reload: On the global cooldown, 3s cast.
Hot Shot: 10% with ammo.
Wildfire: Ignore defense when applying damage.
Hypercharge: 10% debuff.
In fact just make all 5% stuff 10%... well, maybe. Don't want to go overboard.
Ricochet: Additional effect: copies machinist debuffs from the target to all nearby enemies.

No maths done, might be to good, might be terrible.

Edit: tried to stick to changing existing actions because something new is almost certainly not going to happen, but I'd like the bind move to be dropped and replaced with a heal. We're the only job without one.

Hope they fix this faster Alex comming soon

I don't fully understand why you would want to break Promotion into 2 different abilities that upon reading, do the exact same thing as the current Promotion.

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Originally Posted by Tide

Split-Slug-Clean as it stands have a potency of 140-180-200 respectively, Not only is this the weakest combo set in the game, it has also the smallest potency jumps between skills for a lot more work involved(the RNG proc system)

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Actually, it has the smallest potency jumps specifically because it's so RNG-heavy. If you increase the size of the jumps it becomes that much more painful and damaging when the procs fail to occur.

If anything, I would prefer they make the jumps even smaller if they're going to keep the current system. If, on the other hand, they increase the proc rate or give us free ammo for failed procs I would not be against the potencies staying as they are (though that depends on whether or not our damage is up to par when that is changed).

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Originally Posted by Bazi

I don't fully understand why you would want to break Promotion into 2 different abilities that upon reading, do the exact same thing as the current Promotion.

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Because that way he could use his AoE turret and then activate the TP regeneration when he needs
Actually I don't think that it is a big deal, you can change your turret easily

I don't understand why they gave MCH the worst potencies in the game barring Ricochet and then also gated it behind RNG.....seems like even if you get perfect 1-2-3 procs you do 30% less damage than any other DPS that isn't BRD.

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Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

Actually, it has the smallest potency jumps specifically because it's so RNG-heavy. If you increase the size of the jumps it becomes that much more painful and damaging when the procs fail to occur.

If anything, I would prefer they make the jumps even smaller if they're going to keep the current system. If, on the other hand, they increase the proc rate or give us free ammo for failed procs I would not be against the potencies staying as they are (though that depends on whether or not our damage is up to par when that is changed).

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Eh. Right now it doesn't feel good getting a Cleaner Shot proc because it's only a difference of 20 potency from Enhanced Slug, and you only ever get that chance of Clean Shot if you get the Enhanced Slug Proc or if you have Reload on. If Split Shot has potency increased to (say) 180, Enhanced Slug Shot to 220, and Cleaner Shot to 280 (With potency jumps of 40 and 60 vs. 40 and 20)....that's a total combo potency of 680 vs. 150-200-360 = 710 of DRG not counting the extra 10% they get over our Hot Shot with Heavy Thrust or the 4th hit combo they now have.

The difference is....DRG is guaranteed that potency everytime they use their combo. MCH are only guaranteed two of their combos every 60 seconds, and currently that's a 580 potency combo counting the Ammo bonus. It's 520 without Ammo bonus.

So discounting how much better DRG jumps are as oGCD than MCH's and also discounting the new DRG skills, we are doing 190 potency less on our basic DMG combos even if we get a perfect string of procs. Of course that's not counting the turret or auto-attacks or oGCDs or Heavy Thrust or Battle Litany etc because then it becomes much more complex. MCH also has worse support options than BRD so.....burning at both ends.

As far as changes go, I could care less about min/max DPS compared to other classes as long as content could be cleared and the class is fun to play. Currently it's not that fun to play once you look at your skill's potencies.

Hot Shot - Wow a damage buff cool! ... oh it's only 5% but it's still necessary because base damages are so low.

Wow so many oGCDs! ... but half of them don't do damage and 2 others only have 100 potency and half of them share CDs.....and our 180 potency can only be used when they're under 20%.

Wow this RNG is so cool, sometimes I do SO MUCH DAMAGE with my cleaner shot....until you realize most of the time you're spamming a 140 potency Split Shot and the Enhanced Slug > Cleaner Shot is 20 potency more. Even when you get that Cleaner Shot proc it's like...."cool it did 70 more damage than my previous attack....that surely makes up for all the missed procs!"

It just feels completely crappy, especially with Gauss Barrel adding cast times and being unable to use Blank for a lot of fights because of the knockback and short range and getting screwed by RNG.

Here are my changes proposed:

Split Shot same
Enhanced Slug Shot -> 210 Potency
Cleaner Shot > 280 Potency + gives +5% increased damage for 15 seconds (increased to 30 seconds with Ammo bonus) (Total Combo Potency now 630 -> 690 with Ammo Bonus)
Gauss Barrel -> cast time lowered to 1.5 seconds, damage increased by 25%
Quick Reload -> 15 Second Recast Time
Wildfire -> Proc no longer affected by defenses
Head Graze/Suppressive Fire -> 150 Potency
Leg Graze/Foot Graze -> 100 Potency

This way even if you miss Cleaner Shot you'll be doing more damage than before, Clean Shot actually feels good to proc, and we get a better damage buff (10% total). Gauss Barrel doesn't cause as much downtime, Quick Reload will be able to force procs more often, normalizing damage, and our oGCD skills don't suck quite as much so our overall damage goes up quite a bit. I didn't change any of the support because I feel MCH should be DPS first while BRD can be more support.

I think that they thought in the low potencies because we have the turret (plus gauss and the action damage trait), but they are still too low. I wonder if they did the maths to get those numbers, because it seems like they put them at random

Idk I love the idea of Recall & Salve.

Recall is self-only & it wouldn't kill us to have a situational support heal.

If not Salve, a new Trait to increase potion's efficiency passively would be cool.

I agree with virtually everything else... folding bind into Blank & reducing its range would make it less obnoxious.

Upping Suppressive's range to match so it doesn't shove them outside of its range is awesome.

And splitting up MP/TP regen is necessary as it is highly counter-intuitive to disallow combining TP gain & AOE damage from turret.

Also, either Quick Reload to 15s/Reload to 45s (more engaging gameplay, less random proccing, lines up with Wildfire) or 1 ammo passively for each failed proc. I like both.

Remember people - shorter reload(s) cd/more ammo = ^dps. Mixed with lining up Reload+WF also = ^dps.

I'd much rather those sorts of changes (& +dps as a result) than simple potency increases...

I'd like to see Ammunition be more of a factor myself.

Make it function to where you can reload whenever you want but it takes a channeling time to reload, that way the RNG of the procs isn't such a decisive factor in every fight and we'll have a true and reliable rotation. We could keep quick reload the way it is for that 1 last shot in the burst to save you from a mistake. The balance can come in the channel time of the reload and we can still have a burst from rapid fire making it trigger instantly. It could function in a similar way to how BLMs deal their damage with the waxing of Fire and the waning of Ice but our "ice" would be the flat period of reloading.

Let us load rounds between fights and not have them "fall out" of the gun after x amount of seconds would be nice as well.

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Originally Posted by Revy66

I'd like to see Ammunition be more of a factor myself.

Make it function to where you can reload whenever you want but it takes a channeling time to reload, that way the RNG of the procs isn't such a decisive factor in every fight and we'll have a true and reliable rotation. We could keep quick reload the way it is for that 1 last shot in the burst to save you from a mistake. The balance can come in the channel time of the reload and we can still have a burst from rapid fire making it trigger instantly. It could function in a similar way to how BLMs deal their damage with the waxing of Fire and the waning of Ice but our "ice" would be the flat period of reloading.

Let us load rounds between fights and not have them "fall out" of the gun after x amount of seconds would be nice as well.

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Yep! It's not like our 1-2-3 is some super high potency skill set, I doubt it would suddenly push us into OP territory.

Just reduce the CD of reload to 30 seconds and Q reload to 15 seconds. This changes the class from being purely RNG based into one that's focused on managing ammo, as there is 6 ammo available to spend for every 12 gcds. By reducing the cooldown, the skill cap of the class in increased as well (I think they don't care about that at this point considering how MCHs play), and allows reload and q reload to naturally align with all their other cooldowns.

As with all ability suggestion threads, i sadly doubt that any of these suggestions will be implemented. :((

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Originally Posted by ClaireTagg

As with all ability suggestion threads, i sadly doubt that any of these suggestions will be implemented. :((

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I'm hoping that they will at least increase the potencies of Enhanced Slug and Cleaner Shot because they feel like ass right now for all the pain you have to go through to get them.

Yea, i feel a potency buff across skills is all we are going to get. No new skills or CD reduction.

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Originally Posted by ClaireTagg

Yea, i feel a potency buff across skills is all we are going to get. No new skills or CD reduction.

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Other changes would be nice too....but I really just want my Cleaner Shot procs to feel like they're doing something.

What else I thought might be nice would be to make the flying text for the wildfire debuff falling off not get in the way of the damage it does. On my screen they overlap and there's only a very short amount of time to see how much it did.

I would just like split shot to have a 75% proc chance for slug shot, and slug shot shot a 60% chance for clean shot.

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Originally Posted by ClaireTagg

Yea, i feel a potency buff across skills is all we are going to get. No new skills or CD reduction.

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I agree, but doing something about the proc %, or the reload / QR cooldowns can happen. The down time not doing anything is quite apparent at the moment.

Probably OP but any one of these I'd like to see changed

Quick Reload - I would like it to reflect it's name and be on a quick cooldown. Perhaps 10 - 15 seconds? Reload being 60 I have no problem with since that's a big effect.

Gauss Barrel - Keep the flat 20% damage increase but also reduces GCD to 2 seconds so we can fire even faster and get more chance at procs. Or being in GB now gives slightly different effects to certain abilities such your shots now have a 100% proc rate and abilities that consume an ammunition stack would extend your lead shot DoT on the target by 3 seconds each time, only you cant get free instant cast shots anymore and they all have a flat 1.5 sec cast.

Split/Slug/Clean Shot - Simple potency buff would be great. Maybe by 30 on each shot? Too op?

Biggest QoL change to me would be a remade Gauss Barrel, instead of the added cast time on skills I'd like it to give you the 20% damage buff after standing still for 2 seconds (or something similar). Effect lost upon moving. This would also remove the pressing-a-skill-asap-after-rapid-fire-giving-it-a-weird-cast-time-anyway issue.

As mentioned before a shorter CD on quick reload would be neat. Or higher procrate on our combo.

Lead shot ticks having a chance to clear CD on Gauss Round.

Increasing potency on our combo by 10 or 20 per shot.

Looks reasonable to me :<

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Originally Posted by HairyRoger

RNG is part of the job I feel.

If they lower the cooldown on reload and quick reload, and increase the % of the split to slug, it would make a worlds difference.

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I think is the best thing to start with. Reload to 45s allows it to line up with your burst every other Reload. That in itself should be a fairly good improvement on damage.

Quick Reload needs to be carefully adjusted, if at all. Currently, Reload @60s and QR @30s means you get 2 extra bullets per Reload. If you reduced Reload to 45s and QR to 15s, you get 3 extra bullets. This might be too much for the short amount of time. 20 or 25s could work just fine, but I think 30s is also still ok (so leave it as it is).

As for Split Shot proc chance, it being increase to 75% is the most I'd expect leaving Slug Shot at 50%. This lets you try for more S>S>C rounds (increases the chance of this by 50% from the 25% it currently is to 37.5%).

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Originally Posted by HairyRoger

I also think the way lead shot / hot shot and clean shot consume ammo, while not really gaining anything more than 20 potency, is dumb.

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If you reduce the recasts on Reload/QR, the potency increase of 20 is going to stack up a lot more in the same space of time it currently does. For Clean Shot, I think this is ok like that. It could perhaps be given a relatively small chance of resetting QR (20% or so?). This could be balanced somewhat by not increasing the proc chance of Split Shot.

Lead Shot, it would be nice if the potency increase would add to the DoT or at least increase the DoT in some way (extra 5 per tick?).

And Hot Shot could be given the boost to the damage increase it gives. Potentially. But extra potency on that really adds up, so it will probably need to be considered along with any other chances.

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Originally Posted by HairyRoger

Gauss barrel is another story. If they want us to swap in and out of this mode, they need to make it possible without rapid fire. If they want it to be a flat out increase in dps on expense of mobility, make it an actual increase.

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I'm not sure if, along with other chances, GB needs an adjustment for MCH. Assuming we use procs, we only get cast times on Hot Shot, Lead Shot and Split Shot. If we can get more ammo in a set time frame than we currently do, we get to reduce the negative effect of GB a lot more. I'd probably hold off on those and adjust other areas first.

Gauss Barrel should do more damage, was that not the point of WM/GB? To make us into standstill cannons like a BLM? Wasn't that why some abilities are only usable that we receive 50+ with GB on? Why do we do barely more DPS with it on WHEN STANDING STILL ON A DUMMY when on an actual fight, if you keep it on and don't take it off, you'll obviously have to move a lot, but because you hit like paper, well, you can't do it like a BLM and still do great damage.

And how about Slug Shot barely giving ANY time to react to using it? I have to fix my eyes on Slug Shot when I'm using GB otherwise I might cast another Split Shot because the animation delay causes the proc to light up so late that I've proc'd slug shot, but had to keep casting Split Shot because I'd lose DPS if I didn't to use the proc. Here's an idea: 100% chance for split shot to proc slug shot, that way my rotation with GB feels clean and I can use split shot - slug shot - split shot and use the clean shot if it proc'd easily.

I hope we get a reply from the admins on these changes.

In my view well lets just say my terrible PoV if we are to lower the cooldown of Reload to 45s and QReload to 15-20 then it PROBABLY calls for the ammo time to be reduced so we aren't carrying about 11 shots of ammo at the start of a pull. Currently ammo lasts for 30s and QReloading refreshes the time on it. Now given that if Reload's CD is reduced to 45 at the current ammo time not changing anything else you could extend it via QReload back into Reload's next CD. Ok so my proposition for changes would be relatively simple we can drop the CDs for Reload/QReload to 45s and 20s BUT we should drop the ammo buff time to 20s so we cant carry over ammo from one buff over to the next. And that Gauss Round/Ricochet should be dropped to 15s and 45s respectively. Why just these changes? Simple if you used these properly then everything would line up with Wildfire B4b and Hawkeye when they're up and with RS every other Wildfire.

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Originally Posted by Raeus

In my view well lets just say my terrible PoV if we are to lower the cooldown of Reload to 45s and QReload to 15-20 then it PROBABLY calls for the ammo time to be reduced so we aren't carrying about 11 shots of ammo at the start of a pull...

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Ammo can't be stacked above 5.

If they did anything with the Ammo Timer, they should simply remove it.

It's silly that it can disappear. I mean, I get it. It's so that we don't get a free-edge on phase-changes (whereas other Jobs like BLM/MNK lose FS/GL) so it's necessitated, I just think it's silly ;P.

Now, an action like MNK's Meditation where we could load excess Ammo from phase-transitioning into an empowered Gauss Round... now, that would be really freaking COOL.

Would be an interesting option for mega-bursting too, especially to drop a high value target, clutch-finish the DPS Check, or in PVP.

Err that's not what I meant what I meant by possible 11 ammo at the start if we lowered the CD of reload to 45s.
Lets say pre-pull
Reload 5 shots 30s
at the 5s to ammo timeout the pull begins
shoot Split Shot and QReload refreshing the duration and giving you once again 5 stacks of ammo.
Standard opener wasting 2 shots of ammo on Hot/Leadshot.
leaving you 3 shots by which time you could reload again.
thereby you pretty much had 11 shots on the pull 2 of which wasted on Hot/Leadshot

On the support aspect I noticed Virus' CD went up to 90s quite probably for MCN's to line up Disassemble/Rend Mind?
On Gauss Barrel / WM I find it insulting that they make us cast expecting us to catch up while murdering our AAs WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE THE LOWEST WD among jobs.

I agree on the point of the turret TP/MP abilities. I don't think Split shot needs lower TP but I think we need a potency upgrade in either two ways: Either base potency numbers increased on our three primary shots, or increase ammo potency to 40 additional. This will further force us to utilize our ammo with extreme scrutiny and reward as such.

I'd also like to see our magic damage reduction/physical damage reduction shots increased to 10%, but don't mind them sharing their CD and their current CD time.

Yeah, we don't need Recall or Salve... but they're cool/interesting/unique in my opinion.

An in-combat hustle/minor-sprint for a DPS hasn't been done & it fits so neatly with MCH, I think.

And a short-cast personal/support heal is fresh... Blank a mob off an ally, foot graze em, & use the window to Salve em up. It's awesome.

Thinking about it some, I would actually be really happy if they just completely redid the ammo system.

As in, no more duration, reload & quick reload have no cooldown timers, but reload gets a cast time instead so you have to consider when you can reload and when it's better to just hit quick reload between shots. I actually rather like the idea of just hitting quick reload between each shot both thematically (I mean, how else are you even getting bullets into this thing?) and from a gameplay perspective (MOAR BUTTON PRESSES). And of course, if Rapid Fire removed the cast time of Reload... hmmm...

Yes, I like this idea. I like it a lot.

I'd be happy in they just allowed auto attacks while in gauss barrel. The cast timer already hits our mobility, why punish us further?

I feel like so much of this Job was either rushed or an after-thought or not much care was put into it.

Definitely do not believe they put sufficient testing into the Jobs. Especially when they feel the need to have the players do their testing for them in Alexander. We need a PTR. It can/should have limited content but we need it.

On-topic:

Quick-Reload to 15s
Reload to 45s

Gauss Barrel to instant or 1.5s cast.
Gauss Barrel to 25-30%.
Gauss Barrel, remove the deactivation delay.

Taking the MP/TP regen effects from Bishop/Rook & separating them is essential too. Good call.

I'll add one:

Blank, remove its potency.
Blank, give it Foot Graze's effect (bind) at end like you proposed.

This will cause MCH's to feel less the need to Blank to boost their struggling DPS which' a HUGE + for the community & we're despised for it.

It's potency can be folded elsewhere.

I agree too that we should get a couple new abilities & just fold these other bland ones in somewhere else & combine them (Dismantle/Rend Mind)...

I like the ideas of your other new abilities even if others find them unnecessary. They're fun & new & they'd add sweet touches to the Job.

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Originally Posted by Chibilidawg

Ammo can't be stacked above 5.

If they did anything with the Ammo Timer, they should simply remove it.

It's silly that it can disappear. I mean, I get it. It's so that we don't get a free-edge on phase-changes (whereas other Jobs like BLM/MNK lose FS/GL) so it's necessitated, I just think it's silly ;P.

Now, an action like MNK's Meditation where we could load excess Ammo from phase-transitioning into an empowered Gauss Round... now, that would be really freaking COOL.

Would be an interesting option for mega-bursting too, especially to drop a high value target, clutch-finish the DPS Check, or in PVP.

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you can mantain your ammo if you spam quick reload
I don't know why, but it works

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Originally Posted by Chibilidawg

I feel like so much of this Job was either rushed or an after-thought or not much care was put into it.

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If I remember correctly, SE said that the initial MCN concept was that we need reload to cast our skills, but at the end they thought that it was too clumsy and changed it
Maybe they changed it at the last moment

Quick Reload's I Ammo shouldn't be able to refresh Reload's V Ammo. It's gimmicky & makes no sense (besides the fact that an Ammo-timer makes no sense at all... but Chibili made a good point about the necessary nature of such a timer).

That would permit the cool down reductions we want too.

You know what else is clumsy? Not having enough Ammo so we have semi-frequent periods where we spam 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 with no proc.

Job needs more than some minor potency value increases.

MCH is even less fun now that they took away our instant GB application via Rapid Fire... that was a good feature even if it wasn't intended.

Updated OP to changes I'd like to see for 3.05.