Lustrate nerf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

I am trying to stay optimistic but on scholars this was our only burst heal. Everything else was tied to a shield and so the actual healing was significantly lower. I don't know the scholar new skills in detail quite yet but at present I am anxious. Lustrate under galvanize was a fantastic way to secure a dead tank.

---

do you even know how much 600 potency is? cure 2 has 650 and heals around 3000 on a warrior. the warrior in my raidgroup has around 11k HP. don't think the change is significant :O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tint

do you even know how much 600 potency is? cure 2 has 650 and heals around 3000 on a warrior. the warrior in my raidgroup has around 11k HP. don't think the change is significant :O

---

I admit I never played white mage much so I wasn't familiar the heal numbers were that high. In that case I cease any complaints, that is actually a good buff for me.

I thank you!

(FF14 desperately needs to take on LoL's "Face value" number / game mechanics system. 600 potency means absolutely nothing to me.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

so I wasn't familiar the heal numbers were that high.

---

warrior has a 20% healbuff on his defiance to compensate his higher life

Why not just give us a straight up Physick II. I kean there is Cure II, Benefic II, Medica II, where is Physick II. If Summoners got Ruin III, Scholars should get Physick II. Sorry SE but right now you suck, you suck so hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

Why not just give us a straight up Physick II. I kean there is Cure II, Benefic II, Medica II, where is Physick II. If Summoners got Ruin III, Scholars should get Physick II. Sorry SE but right now you suck, you suck so hard.

---

And what would you want Physik 2 to do? Might as well just add "u win" button that instantly kills all enemies within range, so SCH can stop whining how their class still is not good enough.

At first I thought this was a bit of a nerf too, but when you think about some of the combos you could use, this sounds like a pretty amazing buff.

This is still speculation, but if Dissipation gives back a full 3 Aetherflow stacks, we could stock 6 Lustrates. Now if you have Eos, you could use Fey Illumination for the 20% heal buff, get 20% from Dissipation, and potentially spam six Lustrates at 840 potency each. Whether or not you'll ever be in the situation to have to do that is debatable, but being able to potentially cast six 840 potency single target heals every single second is nothing short of amazing. Definitely would not make me miss a 25% cure.

Yeah we lose the ability to cure while in stance, but I play a fair bit of WHM too, so it's something worth getting used to anyway. I felt lazy with SCH sometimes. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

Why not just give us a straight up Physick II. I kean there is Cure II, Benefic II, Medica II, where is Physick II. If Summoners got Ruin III, Scholars should get Physick II. Sorry SE but right now you suck, you suck so hard.

---

you don't need a physick 2 because the combined heal from you and your fairy is already like a physic 2...

From what I understand the change is less to force stance dancing and more to prevent healing down mechanics from being ignored (i.e. Ramuh EX).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

And what would you want Physick 2 to do? Might as well just add "u win" button that instantly kills all enemies within range, so SCH can stop whining how their class still is not good enough.

---

No Physick 2 doesn't have to be a "U Win" button. And hell yeah me and any other Scholar are going to whine about these new moves and nerfs because they suck. Even the Summoner complaint threads only complained that summoner wasn't "true to its origins" no one questioned the viability of their moves, besides Tri-Disaster, now Tri-Bind. WHM is getting awesome moves on top of the good ones they already had. But Scholar is getting all situational moves, and had some of our old moves nerfed. I'm sure if this was your main job and you had to deal with new moves that basically add nothing to your game play, and getting your old moves nerfed, you would be pissed too. Granted we have to see how everything fits together but on the surface, this sucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tint

you don't need a physick 2 because the combined heal from you and your fairy is already like a physic 2...

---

Yeah I know the combo is like Physick 2, just you have to admit, Physick 2 would of been a better move to add over every other move Scholar got.

When I saw the topic I was a bit worried about one of my main survival skills when under fire from multiple sources as SCH in PVP- but considering how you can't even use cleric stance in PVP anymore (ah, those were the days....) maybe this will have more upsides than downsides from that perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabzy

This is still speculation, but if Dissipation gives back a full 3 Aetherflow stacks, we could stock 6 Lustrates. Now if you have Eos, you could use Fey Illumination for the 20% heal buff, get 20% from Dissipation, and potentially spam six Lustrates at 840 potency each. :D

---

If Dissipation gives 3 Aether stacks, we can cast 9 lustrates in a minute: 3 with 720 potency and 6 with 840 potency. Yay!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

No Physick 2 doesn't have to be a "U Win" button. And hell yeah me and any other Scholar are going to whine about these new moves and nerfs because they suck. Even the Summoner complaint threads only complained that summoner wasn't "true to its origins" no one questioned the viability of their moves, besides Tri-Disaster, now Tri-Bind. WHM is getting awesome moves on top of the good ones they already had. But Scholar is getting all situational moves, and had some of our old moves nerfed. I'm sure if this was your main job and you had to deal with new moves that basically add nothing to your game play, and getting your old moves nerfed, you would be pissed too. Granted we have to see how everything fits together but on the surface, this sucks.

---

Oh, don't worry, I mained SCH in all of FCoB. Please tell me about all the SCH nerfs, the only thing getting weaker is the Selene SS buffs, which will probably still amount to the same increase and is just balanced around the improved SS. (Edit: You also won't have to worry about cycling it correctly when you have Selene on Obey.)
I already posted it twice why Lustrate changes are a flat-out buff. They get a very strong AoE heal, Emergency Tactics is very useful on mechanics that ignore Shields, or if you need to top a tank for a tankbuster. The AoE Esuna of Selene can range from being an easy cleanse for WAR's pacification to being almost mandatory if you need to cleanse buffs from many people. Dissipation is very situational as far as I can say, but may still find it's uses. Broil is Stone 2 with a different name, VERY GOOD single target dps, but costly on MP.
On the other hand WHM gets: A weaker Stoneskin that is as good as any other crossclasses Stoneskin. The cast time reduction of 0.5s seems like adding insult to injury, since it's still slower than Adlo or any other (single target) heal for that matter. They lose their advantage of MDEF Protect, which also is a buff to SCH. Presence of Mind is getting nerfed to a 20% increase. The Enhanced Medica trait instead of Proshell is meh at best, you won't cast more Medica because of it. 20% chance to get 50% MP cost. Holy is facing a nerf as well.

SCH has the best chances being mandatory in fights, or at least having a guaranteed spot in serious groups. AST has insane utility with cards and their abilities to extend buffs on allies. WHM is getting another HoT and a 700 potency skill on a 60s CD, two things they weren't really lacking before. The new DPS options with Assize, Stone and Aero 3 are nice, but WHM will probably still struggle with MP if they full time DPS and it still has the same accuracy problem as before, unlike SCH and AST which have DoTs that can't miss.

Edit: Just so you know, I will main AST in 3.0 and my co-healer will most likely stay WHM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pence

Getting out of Cleric Stance to toss a heal seems like too much effort. People will just have to die I guess.

---

And this is why Scholar is the least skilled healer IMO. And people talk about Scholar being harder than WHM lel, can't even be bothered to Stance Dance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

Oh, don't worry, I mained SCH in all of FCoB. Please tell me about all the SCH nerfs, the only thing getting weaker is the Selene SS buffs, which will probably still amount to the same increase and is just balanced around thei mproved SS.

---

You seem to of missed that I was indicating if I want to complain I have the right, though i do admit I could of added "any Scholar who wants too". But as my last sentence said we have to see how everything fits together, all of these changes could be awesome, Neither I or anyone else knows how they will work in unison. But, I said on the surface they suck, just like the WHM nerfs, that I admit until a little while ago I wasn't aware of; because I don't play WHM, I main Scholar, so i was more interested in their moves, not any of the others.

You said you mained Scholar in FCoB, good for you, but is that your main, the job you would say is your best, the one you want to play right up until the end. It very well might of been and you changes recently, or you only played Scholar for FCoB, because your group needed one, I don't know. I would assume you would of set your "Main Class" to Arcanist if that was the case; seeing as how you joined in June, but, again, I don't know. But, for me I main Scholar, it's my defining job, and to see basically no new moves that have major value, and to hear about the other nerfs is disheartening. I'm not saying the moves cannot be good, or that they will (probably) suck. I'm saying that as of right now, hearing about what is happening. I do not like these changes. Down the road I might not care, but right now me, and a lot of other Scholar mains, are not happy.

Edit: I noticed you edit, and if these changes don't "add up" I might very well do the same, though I still have hope.

Uhh what nerfs did scholar actually get? Seems scholars did not get any major changes while white mages got smacked around with the nerf rod despite them being weaker then scholars.

I'd like to believe that I am good enough on a job that I used for progressing current endgame. You also don't need to main one job to the end to know how it plays, it's strengths and weaknesses.
The skill descriptions are taken from a reddit thread, because I don't have any datamined tooltips at hand for SCH.

• Indomitability: 400 Potency AoE heal, consumes 1 Aetherflow, long cooldown.

Fills the gap SCH had in AoE burst healing, combine it with Fey Illumination for an even stronger heal.

• Broil: 170 Potency single-target attack, no cooldown, cast time is same as Ruin, mana cost is 5x higher than Ruin.

As I said before, Stone 2 with a different name and higher MP cost. May not find much use in progression where you may run low on MP, still good for solo content and dungeon bosses, that take like a minute or two.

• Deployment Tactics: Spreads the Galvanize and Eye for an Eye on the target to nearby allies. Long cooldown, doesn't consume Aetherflow.

Additional mitigation for the healer with the strongest mitigation already. May be limited in use with a small range, but you already usually stack for raid nukes so the WHM can top everyone with Cure 3.

• Emergency Tactics: Your next Adlo (and maybe Succor?) ignores the shield
  component and heals for that instead. Long cooldown, doesn't consume Aetherflow.

Also mentioned it earlier, good on mechanics that ignore shields (eg Doom) or when you need to top off a tank before a tankbuster.

• Dissipation: Kills your fairy, but boosts your healing by20% for a while and gives you
  full Aetherflow. Can't resummon Fairy while Dissipation is active.

I assume it'll mostly be used to regain Aetherflow, but it's still going to be pretty situational. Don't forget you can use your fairy CDs before you dissipate. As for lore problems, you might just say you "merge" with the fairy to combine your healing powers. I don't see how lore makes a skill worse though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galdous

Uhh what nerfs did scholar actually get? Seems scholars did not get any major changes while white mages got smacked around with the nerf rod despite them being weaker then scholars.

---

Fey Glow and Fey Light got merged into one skill called Fey Wind, which grants 3% haste (Skillspeed, Speelspeed and AA delay) for 30s on a 60s CD. You still get the same uptime as with the old skills, but have a reduced potency. I assume it's balanced around the improved SS with 3.0 to have the same output as previously. You also won't have to worry about forgeting to cycle the 2 skills, which can happen if things get a bit messy. The second new ability for Selene is an AoE Esuna, ranging from being a cleanse for WAR's pacification to being almost mandatory if SE adds mechanics that need cleansing on more players.
Lustrate got changed to 600 potency. Still instant cast, 0 MP, 1s recast. Now it's able to crit and be buffed by Fey Illumination (and alike) and Dissipation. Only downside is not being able to use it's full potency in CS and not bieng able to bypass -Healing Done mechanics, which I don't think have been in since T5, if you did mechanics right (so not Ramuh).

If I missed anything, please tell me.

It's purely a nerf to fun since you won't be able to dps as often.

I like having fun though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

If your WAR needs 13K HP for T13, something is dramatically amiss.. No offense.

---

Nah I just put example here, not really happen in T13 tho.

Considering you did not even say anything on what I asked I would say you missed the mark all together. What nerf did the scholar actually receive? The spell speed change is a direct change of how skill/spell speed has been made much stronger then in the past. Plus using the buff actually nerfed the dps for some jobs based on how long the fight was. Only real change scholar was hit with was lustrate being altered from a % based heal to a potency based heal with a chance for crit as well.

But the real question is why the white mage hit with some pretty big nerfs when they are weaker then scholars to begin with? All SE had to do was to created new hurdles that could not just let a group gather swarms of adds and aoe/stun down. Holy did not need the nerf that was given. Presence of mind was heavily nerfed that did allow a white mage to have 1.5 gcd and really be a spamming powerhouse for a few seconds. Letting it affect hots and not actual cast times with its long cooldown is a big over the top. Maybe take a page from the holy bible of copy wow and steal the spell from druids that lets them speed up hot ticks for a single target.

I don't think SCH got any nerfs, but some people must see it as nerfs or we wouldn't have a "Lustrate nerf" thread. As far as I know those are the only two abilities that changed.

The change in lustrate is really not a nerf per se, but what it does indicate is a (deliberate?) move by the devs to make sch dps'ing in a raid more difficult. Lustrate is now significantly more powerful when used on any non-tank class, effected by healing buffs, can crit. It seems to be more of a side move than a nerf to me.

Overall, there seems to be (on paper anyway) a shift in the raid meta when it comes to healing. It seems to be the case that healing dps in a raid is being made more difficult and/or costly to me, with assize being an outlier rather than the norm. Sch seems to be shifted toward a more dedicated healer with built in mitigation rather than the stance dancing lunatic it has been for quite a while with all the bells and whistles it is still retaining vis-a-vis healing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

Fey Glow and Fey Light got merged into one skill called Fey Wind, which grants 3% haste (Skillspeed, Speelspeed and AA delay) for 30s on a 60s CD. You still get the same uptime as with the old skills, but have a reduced potency.

---

Just putting it out there but we don't necessarily know if it's a reduced potency. Chances are it probably is, because Selene got an AoE Esuna as well, but until we actually see the changes to SkSp/SpSp we can only speculate how much 3% attack speed reduction contributes.

I'm probably quitting the job and healing in general because of the changes to whm and sch and the addition of ast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ckc22

I'm probably quitting the job and healing in general because of the changes to whm and sch and the addition of ast.

---

Yeah, SE is really shoe-horning innthe whole, Healers shouldn't DPS idea. WHY SQUARE, WHY!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ckc22

I'm probably quitting the job and healing in general because of the changes to whm and sch and the addition of ast.

---

Yeah, bad healers and whinners should quit. Seriously O/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

Yeah, SE is really shoe-horning innthe whole, Healers shouldn't DPS idea. WHY SQUARE, WHY!?

---

Are they? I haven't seen any changes that suggest this. As someone who mains white mage, I see a Holy change that is roughly in parity with Flare, and two new AOE DPS spells, one of which I'll use even if I'm full-time healing because it will restore mana. From a scholar perspective, good points are being made about lustrate being a sidegrade rather than a nerf, and the point of clerics stance still remains that you trade off healing capability for DPS while up.

It seems to me that people are just, well, reacting. They see unfamiliar changes and assume that these changes are bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viviza

Are they? I haven't seen any changes that suggest this. As someone who mains white mage, I see a Holy change that is roughly in parity with Flare, and two new AOE DPS spells, one of which I'll use even if I'm full-time healing because it will restore mana. From a scholar perspective, good points are being made about lustrate being a sidegrade rather than a nerf, and the point of clerics stance still remains that you trade off healing capability for DPS while up.

It seems to me that people are just, well, reacting. They see unfamiliar changes and assume that these changes are bad.

---

Pretty much. As a SCH main, I'm confident that the change to Lustrate won't hurt my off-DPS game in the slightest. Only those who relied too heavily on Lustrate to maintain CS will suffer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyzern

And this is why Scholar is the least skilled healer IMO. And people talk about Scholar being harder than WHM lel, can't even be bothered to Stance Dance

---

You are either bitter or ignorant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farrell

You are either bitter or ignorant

---

I've had my share of people telling me WHM takes no skill when Scholars can steamroll content without effort because they have their life made so much easier with Lustrate, pet skills, lack of accuracy needed on their damage spells and almost infinite mana pool. The difference between making a mistake as a WHM and as a SCH is huge, WHMs simply can't afford making mistakes and they must adapt to any situation they're presented with. SCHs could always rely on their emergency lustrate, their pet to make things easy peasy and their mana pool to raise people without bother.

So yeah, maybe I'm bitter, but I'm not ignorant.

As a SCH main, I don't mind the "nerf" at all. Crit Lustrate? Yes please, and thankyouverymuch.