Feedback: Levelling EXP for secondary Jobs

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

As someone with all classes at 50, I recommend that you avoid that you avoid things the feel like a boring grind. If EVERYTHING feels like a boring grind, pick whatever feels least grindy, even if it means it will take you longer to level the class.


Did I get a job leveled quickly? No. Each job took a couple months to complete in this fashion. But I didn't feel bored or frustrated either. Roulettes every day, different dungeons and guildhests every day, no FATEs unless one was handy and I felt like it.

It's unreasonable to expect SE to provide enough quests to give exp for all twenty classes, but they have provided plenty of tools to ease the strain of leveling additional classes.

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Thanks for the tips! However the fact it takes MONTHS to level a second class is exactly the problem here. Im not saying they provide enough quests to to give exp for all 20 classes but they could do daily quest hubs or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

The challenge log is also a ton of bonus xp, even though it resets weekly.
With the armory bonus (+50% xp), it's not that bad of a grind. I felt so for my second character being accustomed to having more quests but I got over it when I got accustomed to the system.

- Do a dungeon the same level it unlocks (that's almost a level, if not a level)
- Do the daily roulette (dungeon and guildhest), that's about a level
- You can do fates and leves in between, but don't use your leves during the same level as a dungeon unlock (less efficient)

At level 32 on, dungeons unlock every 3 levels. What I said above grants at least 2 of those per day.
That means you just need to grind one extra and repeat.

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I totally understand using the dungeons etc, but when you have 2 hours to play in a day if that, waiting for a dutyfind to pop for 40 mins as dps is just ridiculous! It just isn't feasible unless your a heal, tank or have 5 hours a day to play!

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

I fully agree that leveling secondary classes can be a pain. I had to level both THM and CNJ for cross class purposes, and while they don't play bad, I just don't enjoy their play style. Leveling in the late 20s and early 30s is where it starts getting really dull. I still plan on slowly working on all my classes to get them to the cap, and lancer is what I plan on being my next target, (until Heavensward releases, then it's Machinist), and I'm hoping it goes better for me. FATE and Roullete grinding is also quite tiring after a while, because even with bonuses and food buffs, it can take a long time to level if you don't have just hours to work on it.....


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I hate to break it to you, but even if leveling was more difficult, then those people still wouldn't know their jobs. If someone doesn't learn by looking at skills while they're already unlocking them through FATE grinding then they clearly don't care about actually knowing how to play the class. Even when I have used FATE leveling, I still take the time to learn how a skill works once I unlock it, while still doing more FATEs. Taking more time to level up won't change how people play, it'll just mean they have to sit there grinding for longer.....

And as for people leveling to 50 within 1-2 days, or even 1-2 weeks, then yes, that's actually even more work because if someone is willing to put that much effort into speed leveling then they are clearly putting in far more "work" than people who progress at a more normal pace. No matter how hard you make the leveling, there will always be people who put in the time and effort to reach the cap in as little time as possible. Making it harder to reach said cap wouldn't hinder those players by more than a few hours or days, (if it was made far more difficult), but it would serve to drive away the people who only get a couple of hours a night at the most to play, because they would have no incentive to play due to the majority of the game's content only being unlockable once you reach higher levels, and spending several months just trying to unlock it is beyond the patience of many players.....

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This is what I mean, I agree with you Gamer3427. If you want to spend 2 days busting out levels with no sleep fine do that, however for people with less time there should be ways to get to the end content (i'm not saying hand me gear or raids etc as you should have to work hard in raids for that) with secondary classes. This is also only really a discussion about secondary classes not your first class. The first class is understandably slower and interactive with the story and lore as you go I just don't understand why secondary classes are gated behind such a grind. However, I also agree that they shouldn't be able to just level up instantly so that you at least try to learn your class as you go etc, but, I for one learn nothing when i'm bored out of my mind half falling asleep grinding away. They could introduce challenges that teach you how to use your class once you get to 50 as well to help those that are a bit slower just buttonmash. There are so many things they could implement, level grinding is just not going to teach you those things.

I like levequests because of the free ventures that can be received as a reward for said questing.

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Originally Posted by Tigra

sadly fates dont seem like much of an option anymore since as of now most people are 50 and are rarely doing them... and lets face it with just one person doing the fates it takes alot longer and just sucks

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Uh? I see fate parties all the time in Quarrymill, Costa del Sol, Coerthas, and North Thanalan.

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Originally Posted by Aussiedai84

Thanks for the tips! However the fact it takes MONTHS to level a second class is exactly the problem here. Im not saying they provide enough quests to to give exp for all 20 classes but they could do daily quest hubs or something like that.

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It doesn't take months to level a class if you just buckle down and do it though. It only takes months if you are picky about what you do and don't feel like doing to get experience. Honestly, all of my tanks and heals have mostly been leveled in dungeons and all of my DPS have mostly been leveled on battlcraft leves and fates. The DPS queue is what it is and all of us just sort of have to accept that. It's not just this game. Any MMORPG that has a queue based system ends up with longer queue times for DPS than for tanks and heals. Most people just want to blow things up.

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Originally Posted by Aussiedai84

I totally understand using the dungeons etc, but when you have 2 hours to play in a day if that, waiting for a dutyfind to pop for 40 mins as dps is just ridiculous! It just isn't feasible unless your a heal, tank or have 5 hours a day to play!

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If you only have 2 hours a day to play, try to find a tank or healer friend to speed up your queue.

As someone who has all jobs at 50, the leveling system was indeed slow... in 2.0. After that, it was way too fast. I had maybe 2 jobs to 50 per month after roulette, challenges, dailies, etc. got released. FATES? I did practically none (post 2.1 release) because they were the slowest way to level. What I want to know is that 1-50 is supposed to be the tutorial to teach you how to play the class; how can people really expect to learn the class in 2 weeks? They need to slow leveling down to avoid all of the people at level 50 (like right now...) who don't know what fire III or thunder is, and who will swear that spamming just rage of halone (no combo) in sword oath is how to tank and don't know what flash is. In case you are wondering how you do a class to 50 in 2 weeks it's like this:

1-10:
Do hunting log, if a FATE spawns on top of the mark, then feel free to do it, you can pretty much solo anything below 10.

10-20:
Do the two guild heists at 10
Begin hunting log until stuff becomes too hard to kill, If a FATE spawns on the target, then do it if it get's in the way
If you still aren't 15, do like 1 leve...
Do the two heists at 15
Do dungeons (all 3 of them, you should get a level for each)
Finish hunting log
If you still aren't at 20, do a leve

20-30:
Begin log
Do the two heists at 20
Do Halatali until 23
Do leves until totorak unlocked
Do Totorack
Do 2 heists at 25
Finish log
Do Totorack until 27 (probably won't have to even do this step because the log)
Do leves until 28
Do Manor twice
Do leves until 30 (should be at most 2)
Do job quest
Do 2 heists at 30
Begin log (should be close to 32 at this point)
Finish up lvl 31 with leves (should need about 2)
At this point, it becomes easy since dungeons unlock every 3 levels now
Do Brayflox twice
Finish up log
Should be close to 35 at this point, finish 34 with leves
Do job quest
Do 2 heists at 35
Do Qarn twice
Should be close to 38, finish up 37 with leves
Do Cutters Cry twice
Should be close to 40, finish up 39 with leves

40-50:
Do job quest
Do two heists at 40
Begin log
Should be 41 at this point, Do vigil twice
Do dailes in range
Should be close to 44 at this point, finish up level 43 with leves
Do Darkhold once
Finish log
Do job quest
Do Darkhold a second time
Do dailies in range
Should be close to 47 at this point, finish up level 46 with leves
Do AV twice
Do Dailies in range
Should be 49 at this point, do leves until 50

Obvious things not mentioned:
Do roulettes when you log in
Do only GC leves on the highest difficulty for your level, they are significantly faster than doing the regular leves and some can be done in 30 seconds. Avoid the one with the time limit of 5 minutes since you can't complete it faster than 5 minutes
Rest bonus...

What this does:
1. Avoid FATE grinding (the factory producing bad players),
2. You do every dungeon twice, so you should know the mechanics (except the beginning 3, but you should already know the mechanics since you did it for the story)
3. You know how to use every skill in both solo and party setting at every level range
4. With the addition of the challenge log, you can basically skip doing a bunch of dungeons a second time or having to use more than 2 leves per section
5. The GC leves still give seals just like FATES

Possible issues:
1. DPS job queue, but this shouldn't matter since you should be doing the hunting log while waiting in addition to the leves
2. You can't scrape by with bad gear, but this shouldn't even be a complaint

Hunting logs
Challenge logs
Low level roulette
Guild hests
Levequests
Fates
Late level dungeon spam
+50% exp bonus towards non quest exp rewards

The game has added plenty of variety and has provided xp bonus system. It took me 3 weeks of casual play to get to lvl 50 ninja and it took an fc member of mine 1 week to get to 50 nin from rogue lvl 1 (he had a lvl 50 monk when he stopped at 2.2). This is crazy fast for an MMO imo. It shouldnt get any faster...it'll just add to the "i got this far but i still don't know what i'm doing" problem even more.

to everyone saying they see fate parties all the time. you are on extremely populated servers... iv only seen 1 fate group and it was the 40+ zone otherwise iv yet to see many of them on low pop servers

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Originally Posted by Aussiedai84

However the fact it takes MONTHS to level a second class is exactly the problem here. . . could do daily quest hubs or something like that.

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You do get 6 leves a day, how's that any different than daily quests? Most games don't have more than a few daily quests either..
Besides, what's the rush? You say that like you should be able to level a class 1-50 in a week.. Some people CAN do this, most cannot due to time constraints and/or resources within the game.

With a 2 hour limit a day, you should be able to do the following.

- low level roulette
- 6 leve quests
- Guildhest roulette

Then grind FATEs for an hour or so, or just run another dungeon.

Point is, in 2 hours of game time, there doesn't have to be so much grind, if you actually played more, THEN it becomes more of a grindfest because you run out of things to do other than dungeons/FATEs.

You say it like people who grind to 1-50 over a weekend has it easy..
Have you tried running dungeons for 10 hours straight? It's not that easy :p

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Originally Posted by Tigra

to everyone saying they see fate parties all the time. you are on extremely populated servers... iv only seen 1 fate group and it was the 40+ zone otherwise iv yet to see many of them on low pop servers

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You're on one of the most populated ones :p
Jenova's not that populous, but we still have a couple FATE groups almost 24/7 in Coerthas and N.Thanalan. Quarrymill and Costa Del Sol are a hit or miss

They should add +50% Bonus experience for every 50 (or 60) bonus character on your account.

Its not like you can skip dungeons, story anyways.

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Originally Posted by Tigra

to everyone saying they see fate parties all the time. you are on extremely populated servers... iv only seen 1 fate group and it was the 40+ zone otherwise iv yet to see many of them on low pop servers

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You are on Balmung. No server is more extremely populated than Balmung. Maybe you play at the wrong time?

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Originally Posted by Tigra

to everyone saying they see fate parties all the time. you are on extremely populated servers... iv only seen 1 fate group and it was the 40+ zone otherwise iv yet to see many of them on low pop servers

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Um. Balmung is one of the most populated servers, if not THE most populated.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

You're on one of the most populated ones :p
Jenova's not that populous, but we still have a couple FATE groups almost 24/7 in Coerthas and N.Thanalan. Quarrymill and Costa Del Sol are a hit or miss

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I concur. lol
(Especially the Coerthas FATE parties)

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Originally Posted by Aussiedai84

OP Snip

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Secondary jobs get a flat 50% bonus XP from all sources (leves, sidequests and dungeon kills etc)

Low Level Roulette in addition to the Leves and a few FATEs here and there will get you to cap faster than you think.
Throw in Rested EXP and Food bonuses, it only takes 2 - 3 dungeons of your current level to gain a whole level.

Like i wrote on the German Forum, for me a Solution would be that all the Sidequests reset when you switch a Class to a state you have done them so far with this Class.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Secondary jobs get a flat 50% bonus XP from all sources (leves, sidequests and dungeon kills etc)

Low Level Roulette in addition to the Leves and a few FATEs here and there will get you to cap faster than you think.
Throw in Rested EXP and Food bonuses, it only takes 2 - 3 dungeons of your current level to gain a whole level.

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Yeah I understand, but, doing a DPS class you have to wait sometimes 45 mins + to get a dungeon pop. Leveling shouldn't be reliant on something like that for the bulk of EXP. If you only have a few hours to play a day it just isn't viable.

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Originally Posted by Imiona

Like i wrote on the German Forum, for me a Solution would be that all the Sidequests reset when you switch a Class to a state you have done them so far with this Class.

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I suggested something like that back before the game launched because of the obvious problem with only being able to complete a quest once but needing to level like 13 times. The response was more or less "we're going to add a bunch of new quests in every patch." Yeah that didn't quite work out.

I'd really like there to be a structured way to level secondary jobs. Aside from low level roulette, there really isn't anything that provides a meaningful amount of exp to a low level job, and you can do that exactly once per day.

I understand they didn't want to make leveling every job super easy such that everyone would have them all in a few weeks, but I feel like they dropped the ball here. They could've done better than they did.

Is there anyway to give feedback to the actual Dev's?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

I suggested something like that back before the game launched because of the obvious problem with only being able to complete a quest once but needing to level like 13 times. The response was more or less "we're going to add a bunch of new quests in every patch." Yeah that didn't quite work out.

I'd really like there to be a structured way to level secondary jobs. Aside from low level roulette, there really isn't anything that provides a meaningful amount of exp to a low level job, and you can do that exactly once per day.

I understand they didn't want to make leveling every job super easy such that everyone would have them all in a few weeks, but I feel like they dropped the ball here. They could've done better than they did.

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Uh... there are plenty of ways (that do not include fates) for leveling secondary classes. I even outlined a step by step guide from 1-50 in sections of 10's in the last page. Are you sure what you are looking for is something that instantly gets you from 1 to 50? The point of the leveling process is that people can learn to play the class by the time they are expected to perform their role in endgame content (which as of today is lvl 50 content).

Anything that you try to do quickly will make you feel the grind. But if you stretch it out then it's actually extremely easy to level all the classes in this game.

With rested bonus, armory bonus, and the low level roulette, you're basically looking at something like 1 level per day. Add the Challenge Log and it's another huge chunk of EXP per week (FATE/Leve/Dungeon/Guild Order categories). But if you try to cram all that and want to level secondary classes quickly like how you leveled your main, then it will indeed be a grind.

Same for the relic line of quests. It only becomes a grind if we try to complete it quickly.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Uh... there are plenty of ways (that do not include fates) for leveling secondary classes. I even outlined a step by step guide from 1-50 in sections of 10's in the last page. Are you sure what you are looking for is something that instantly gets you from 1 to 50? The point of the leveling process is that people can learn to play the class by the time they are expected to perform their role in endgame content (which as of today is lvl 50 content).

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Why is it that when someone says "I wish the leveling experience could be better on alternate jobs" the first thing that vomits out of people is "What? You want instant 1 to 50?"

No.

No I don't want that.

That's why I didn't say it.

I said I wanted a structured method for leveling secondary jobs. Meaning the game gives me a structure I can progress through to take a job from 1 to the level cap. And I can do that no matter how many jobs I have to do.

In most MMOs this is done through questing. XIV presents a unique situation in which a quest-centric MMO lets you level multiple classes on a single character.

I'm saying that the experience of leveling secondary jobs could be made better. I did not, at any point, say that I wanted to be instantly level 50.

What they need to do for LLDR is like what they did in WoW to get tanks/healers do to the daily dungeon thing but make it so everyone gets one daily if they do the LLDR cause the dps LLDR queue is horrible(waited 45mins for it last night and gave up). Mind you it'd have to be changed some but meh :/

http://www.wowhead.com/item=90818/mi...eries#contains

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Originally Posted by Slirith

What they need to do for LLDR is like what they did in WoW to get tanks/healers do to the daily dungeon thing but make it so everyone gets one daily if they do the LLDR cause the dps LLDR queue is horrible(waited 45mins for it last night and gave up)

http://www.wowhead.com/item=90818/mi...eries#contains

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That thing was the worst idea. It was pretty much Blizzard saying "the only way we can get people to play these specs is to bribe them; the gameplay just can't stand on its own." Moreso for those of us that spent the time collecting rare pets and mounts. That bag just hands them out because the player did something as mind-bogglingly difficult as queue for a dungeon.

Sometimes low level queues are bad, especially during off hours. The only time I've seen queues like you've described here though are in the opening weeks of patch 2.4 when everyone and their pink chocobo was leveling a rogue.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Why is it that when someone says "I wish the leveling experience could be better on alternate jobs" the first thing that vomits out of people is "What? You want instant 1 to 50?"

No.

No I don't want that.

That's why I didn't say it.

I said I wanted a structured method for leveling secondary jobs. Meaning the game gives me a structure I can progress through to take a job from 1 to the level cap. And I can do that no matter how many jobs I have to do.

In most MMOs this is done through questing. XIV presents a unique situation in which a quest-centric MMO lets you level multiple classes on a single character.

I'm saying that the experience of leveling secondary jobs could be made better. I did not, at any point, say that I wanted to be instantly level 50.

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There is a point to the leveling process. And what you are asking for already exists. There difference is that you are looking for one thing you can use to grind to 50. This game instead has you do about 8 different things. But according to what you are saying, there shouldn't be any people with any more than a couple jobs to 50. But you're clearly wrong since there are plenty with every job (and class for that matter) at 50 since even a year ago (and I'm one of them). Just what are you looking for? "Quest-like" content? We literally have daily quests in the game. Something earlier? They are exactly the same (called levequests) and once again you get 6 a day. I hope you weren't looking for fetch quests to 50 because that's not helping you learn to play the job.

if anything, I just want FATEs in the 45-50 range brought up, especially for new players. Feels like MSQ is trucking along nicely then there's this big hand that says "STOP! are you level 49 yet?....only 46? beat it, brat."

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Originally Posted by TheEnygma

if anything, I just want FATEs in the 45-50 range brought up, especially for new players. Feels like MSQ is trucking along nicely then there's this big hand that says "STOP! are you level 49 yet?....only 46? beat it, brat."

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That's actually why daillies are only in this range. BTW, there are FATES in this range, just not in the maps people like to FATE grind. E.g. Mor Dhona, Eastern Thanalan, the southwest part of Central Coerthas, East Shroud (where the dailies point you), Southern Thanalan (where the dailies point you), Outer La Noscea (where the dailies point you), Western La Noscea (where the dailies point you), North Shroud (where the dailies point you... I hope you can see where I'm going with this), etc...

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

There is a point to the leveling process. And what you are asking for already exists. There difference is that you are looking for one thing you can use to grind to 50. This game instead has you do about 8 different things. But according to what you are saying, there shouldn't be any people with any more than a couple jobs to 50. But you're clearly wrong since there are plenty with every job (and class for that matter) at 50 since even a year ago (and I'm one of them). Just what are you looking for? "Quest-like" content? We literally have daily quests in the game. Something earlier? They are exactly the same (called levequests) and once again you get 6 a day. I hope you weren't looking for fetch quests to 50 because that's not helping you learn to play the job.

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The point is leveling a secondary class shouldn't take 50 days to do at a casual rate. 1.5-3 weeks at a casual rate is sufficient for a secondary class and allows you to learn the class. Casual rate being a few hours a night and taking into account that as a DSP running dungeons in that timeframe is just not going to work.

Levelling secondary classes is just a big unstructured chore. At any given level range you have a choice of doing the same half a dozen levequests over and over again, grinding FATEs in usually only one viable zone at a time, or queuing in dungeons for ages if you're a non-tank/healer. And dungeon roulettes are hugely unrewarding after doing it once for the daily, so you just end up queuing specific for the one dungeon at the top of your level range. Every few levels you get to break up the monotony a bit with a new couple of guildhests (which you do once for the bonus and forget about it because they're utter garbage the rest of the time) and a new batch of hunt log entries, but those have less and less of an effect as you get higher up.

I wouldn't even mind so much if I could do something useful like levelling my chocobo or farming Alex while I do all that, but the second isn't possible and if you want to queue for dungeons while you grind the first isn't either.

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Originally Posted by Aussiedai84

The point is leveling a secondary class shouldn't take 50 days to do at a casual rate. 1.5-3 weeks at a casual rate is sufficient for a secondary class and allows you to learn the class. Casual rate being a few hours a night and taking into account that as a DSP running dungeons in that timeframe is just not going to work.

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I don''t see anyone mentioning 50 days. I even said myself that it only takes two weeks.

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Originally Posted by JimboTCB

Levelling secondary classes is just a big unstructured chore. At any given level range you have a choice of doing the same half a dozen levequests over and over again, grinding FATEs in usually only one viable zone at a time, or queuing in dungeons for ages if you're a non-tank/healer. And dungeon roulettes are hugely unrewarding after doing it once for the daily, so you just end up queuing specific for the one dungeon at the top of your level range. Every few levels you get to break up the monotony a bit with a new couple of guildhests (which you do once for the bonus and forget about it because they're utter garbage the rest of the time) and a new batch of hunt log entries, but those have less and less of an effect as you get higher up.

I wouldn't even mind so much if I could do something useful like levelling my chocobo or farming Alex while I do all that, but the second isn't possible and if you want to queue for dungeons while you grind the first isn't either.

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They might as well just take away the freedom and just make everyone grind open world mobs for exp right? I don't know what you're asking for, but you just named a bunch of ways to level and it seems that having to do a bunch of things instead of grinding one things for efficiency (i.e. options...) is "unstructured". It sounds like you just want to FATE grind to 50 and are mad that it doesn't give you a level per FATE.

Pretty sure it's been mentioned before, but this isn't likely to happen since the game is structured to have enough MSQs to carry you to 50, with the addition of the following for second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. jobs:
1) FATEs. The simplest, you just move from place to place.
2) Dungeons. Not as ideal for non-tanks/healers due to the queues, but it's very structured and will take you from 10-50 at a reasonable clip. Bonus is there's no "dead zone" like there is with quests. There are always dungeons you can do to 50.
3) Leves. Mostly used for leveling crafts as FATEs and dungeons give a fast rate of EXP, but they're not too bad if you just want to get something done.
4) Hunting Log: This thing is usually good for a level or two, nice for bridging the gap for certain dungeons (i usually do it to avoid dungeons such as Toto-Rak and Stone Vigil)
5) Beast Tribe dailies: the don't give the greatest EXP (except the crafting ones) but are good for feeling like you're progressing something.
6) Challenge Log: This one's kind of cheating since it happens by doing the other things on the list, but it's still a substantial amount of EXP.

This is all on top of getting an EXP boost just for having a higher level character, plus any Company Actions, food, and rested exp you happen to have.
Of these six, the only ones I would consider altering in some way would be the Hunting Log and Beast Tribe dailies. Expanding the hunting log to have more targets and thus more exp, and increasing the cap on the number of beast tribe daily quests you can do in a single day.

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Originally Posted by Aussiedai84

The point is leveling a secondary class shouldn't take 50 days to do at a casual rate. 1.5-3 weeks at a casual rate is sufficient for a secondary class and allows you to learn the class. Casual rate being a few hours a night and taking into account that as a DSP running dungeons in that timeframe is just not going to work.

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With what I said earlier about the chain bonus and the daily roulette, while running fates and challenge log, I can get at least 2 levels within 3 hours a day as a DPS.
Challenge log brings that up to 3 for the few bonuses.

So it should take less than a month to reach 50, maybe within 15-20 days with a pretty casual rate.
That's not so bad, but you would have to be playing for the whole of that 3 hours.

Either way, I don't really feel like it'd be unreasonable if it was even a month if you play that much.
If someone was playing from launch at that rate, they'd all classes at 50 twice over and then some.
That doesn't seem like too much. And you still get structure for the day, if you use what's available.

Levelling isn't that slow in this game, and having all 50s should be a long term goal.
I actually think it's well done for casual leveling because the daily roulette and challenge are by far the most efficient EXP gains, in addition to the usual rested XP from logging out in a Sanctuary.
The game actually encourages using these casual time locked levelling tools.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Why is it that when someone says "I wish the leveling experience could be better on alternate jobs" the first thing that vomits out of people is "What? You want instant 1 to 50?"

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Because it sound like it mean that he want faster exp. And the exp are already fast. Doing it faster than now is like jumping direct to lv 50.

From 1-50 as a new class/job without any sidequests..

1-8 will be just walking outside and doing the initial class quest and level 1-10 hunting log, and available guildheists (2 hours~)
8-15 can easily be done with a few fates in the surrounding areas whilst doing the level 5 and 10 class quest maybe a few levequests, after 10 the 10-20 hunting log and available guildheists (3 hours~)
15+ Daily low level roulette is almost equal to 1 level of exp regardless of what level you are (5-40 minutes) since exp reward from the roulette is based on the level of the dungeon in relation to your level, Eg. Ifrit, will only take 5 mins but give a huge exp bonus to compensate for there being no dungeon enemies and low level, Dungeon exp is best so just queue into the highest level dungeon you have access to. FATE exp is decent but you need to be in the right areas for your level, it's simple to know where to go because its the same area as the equivalent level levequests, Quarrymill from 20-30, Costa del sol from 30-35 Coerthas from 35-40+ Northern Thanalan for 45+

I would say it's quite easy to be structural in the way you level eg. Daily roulette > Guildheist first time bonus > FATE (whilst queuing for Dungeon/Heist) > Levequest (if bored of FATE or if there isn't enough people around to do FATE's quickly) Also managing the challenge log gives you huge exp boosts per week and targets to work towards (3 Roulette dungeons, 5 dungeons, vote 5 times for commendation, 5 FATE's in different zones, 10 FATE's, 3 Guildheists, 10 Guildheists, 5 Different Levequests, 20 Levequests) Completing all of these per week is easily another few levels of exp.

It all varies to some degree based on your class/job too, if you are levelling a tank class you can easily get instantly into any dungeon meaning other than doing the challenge log/hunting log you can dungeon grind straight to 50 as fast as possible, Healer has the same perk of much faster queue times so you can generally take a break from dungeons to do the other challenge log items as your leisure. As a DPS (ranged dps especially, BLM/BRD/SMN) you will find wait times are far larger and as such are likely to complete most of the challenge log items (Leve's/Fate's) whilst waiting for dungeon timers. Disadvantages of this are you can't join parties to do FATE's and might have to abandon a Levequest halfway through when the queue timer pops, also you cannot use the chocobo companion either. If you use the companion you can easily clear almost the whole lot of Hunting log enemies on the first level (e.g. a level 30 can clear the level 40 enemies with companion assistance) although some are more difficult than others.

If playing casually I would just simply aim to complete the daily dungeon roulette and the challenge log every week, that there is enough for someone who plays 1-2 hours a day and would provide quite a decent amount of exp for levelling a secondary.

So overall I found it quite painless to level EVERY class to 50, I am quite confident that 50-60 will also be not so much of a struggle as I am sure I read somewhere that 50-60 is almost as long as 1-50 but with the level based bonuses from the dungeons/roulette's and logs I can expect to get atleast a level a day anyhow.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

They are exactly the same (called levequests) and once again you get 6 a day. I hope you weren't looking for fetch quests to 50 because that's not helping you learn to play the job.

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Neither do levequests.

Actually almost nothing teaches you how to play your job other than dungeons and a few specific class quests for gladiators and conjurers.

Believe it or not I'm also one of those people with every job at 50. Mostly through daily low level roulettes and hunting/challenge log completion. A few levequests at the end to bridge gaps. I know how to level a job to 50. I'm saying the experience of doing that could be better.

I actually don't understand why this is so controversial. I'd like the experience of leveling secondary jobs to be better than it is, and I'm encountering all this resistance to that very simple notion. Perhaps you can explain to me why wanting the game to be more fun no matter how many times you play through it is a bad thing?

I don't really get where this idea of a 'grind' is coming from. The only other MMO I've played is WoW and that's said to be a very casual and non grindy game, and this game seems to me quite similar in terms of leveling pace. I've played ARR a couple of months and haven't encountered any grinds except the optional relic quest. I still have side quests after getting 3 classes to 50, and leveling with fates, hunting log, challenge log, dailies, guildhests (first time bonus!) and dungeons (daily roulette!) is quite fun and not much slower than my first class. You can also combine leveling DoH and DoL classes with dungeons if you are a dps, so the queues don't feel long at all and you also get a nice break from professions every now and then. Leves make crafting and gathering classes trivial to level. It's quite shocking to hear some people find all this slow and tedious. I don't think there's any MMO that allows you to get max level without actually playing your character and the content.

Each 50 on your account should give your entire account's new characters 50% bonus experience. Each character, stacking to 1000%.

Why? Well why not? Its dull leveling new characters when you've already done it so much, this gives you a fun incentive to run alts, and makes it so more new people will get help leveling up.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Perhaps you can explain to me why wanting the game to be more fun no matter how many times you play through it is a bad thing?

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Probably because most of us see no problem with how leveling alt classes are.. Lack of quests don't bother them much because well, questing to level is never the most optimized way in an MMO, with MMO leveling is all about that grind, it's faster that way and perhaps we're just used to the mindset.

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Originally Posted by Aussiedai84

Yeah I understand, but, doing a DPS class you have to wait sometimes 45 mins + to get a dungeon pop. Leveling shouldn't be reliant on something like that for the bulk of EXP. If you only have a few hours to play a day it just isn't viable.

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And during those 45+ minutes, you can do Fates, any side quests you might have left over from previous classes, class/job quests, hunt log, daily hunts (provided you have a level 50 already)... Or you can just ask friends or FC mates if they'd like to go on a dungeon run or two and tank or heal for you. =) Nothing that says you have to sit idly and just wait.
Not sure how leves work with dungeon queues, though. Never tried it.
The only thing you can't do is bring out your chocobo =/ so no assistance from or exp for your fine-feathered friend.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

And during those 45+ minutes, you can do Fates, any side quests you might have left over from previous classes, class/job quests, hunt log, daily hunts (provided you have a level 50 already)... Or you can just ask friends or FC mates if they'd like to go on a dungeon run or two and tank or heal for you. =) Nothing that says you have to sit idly and just wait.
Not sure how leves work with dungeon queues, though. Never tried it.
The only thing you can't do is bring out your chocobo =/ so no assistance from or exp for your fine-feathered friend.

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You certainly can queue and do levequests. The only thing you can't do is change your party composition (e.g. bring out your chocobo) but this isn't a problem if you do the faster leves (i.e. the GC leves) since they are solo only anyway.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Neither do levequests.

Actually almost nothing teaches you how to play your job other than dungeons and a few specific class quests for gladiators and conjurers.

Believe it or not I'm also one of those people with every job at 50. Mostly through daily low level roulettes and hunting/challenge log completion. A few levequests at the end to bridge gaps. I know how to level a job to 50. I'm saying the experience of doing that could be better.

I actually don't understand why this is so controversial. I'd like the experience of leveling secondary jobs to be better than it is, and I'm encountering all this resistance to that very simple notion. Perhaps you can explain to me why wanting the game to be more fun no matter how many times you play through it is a bad thing?

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Pray tell wise adventurer, please give me an example of a leve quest that teaches you nothing. How do you plan to learn to play your class rather than to do battles with some specific mechanic? I'm not sure what you're looking for if you think nothing but dungeons and a few class quests teach you how to play your job.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

And during those 45+ minutes, you can do Fates, any side quests you might have left over from previous classes, class/job quests, hunt log, daily hunts (provided you have a level 50 already)... Or you can just ask friends or FC mates if they'd like to go on a dungeon run or two and tank or heal for you. =) Nothing that says you have to sit idly and just wait.
Not sure how leves work with dungeon queues, though. Never tried it.
The only thing you can't do is bring out your chocobo =/ so no assistance from or exp for your fine-feathered friend.

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Hunt logs take a whole 5 - 10 mins and dont give that much exp. No side quests left. Times I am on aren't when there are heaps of FC people on unfortunately which is fine but once again brings you back to grinding fates. This also bring me back to what was originally said. There needs to be something else to fill that gap of Main quests that doesn't rely so heavily on fates and dungeons.Either increase the EXP so you aren't sitting around doing nothing and grinding fates till you brain hurts or or introduce dailies ( like beast tribes) for lower levels. I know some of you are saying Leve are dailies but then remove the allowance limit (so you can do 6 - 10 per class, job etc) rather than 6 per day across an entire account. Some of you are fine with the grind of fates etc and each to their own but there are those who would like to level an alt in under 4 + weeks without being stuck behind these said issues. Some of you have plenty of time to do these things, but, I can tell you right now if you limit your game time to 2 hours a day for 2 months you will soon get sick of the limited things you can do in a day/ you will then start to weigh up if it is worth paying the subscription because you cant experience a lot of the things the game has to offer. From a business perspective - Why keep such a large portion of the game from paying customers who don't have 5+ hours a day to spend on it. I am not asking for instant 50's or free gear just an easier (less complicated and more balanced - for DPS), more streamlined way to level alts for casual players. These sort of things can put people off the game all because the elitist think it is fine how it is. God forbid they make something a little bit more accessible to a wider audience who are also paying the same amount as you just have less time on their hands. I got 2 levels in about an hour and a half last night so going on that rate it would take me aprox 19 days to level one additional class. That means I can do nothing but level an additional class when I play. SO say I play half my time on a main half on a second class. That means about 38 days for ONE alt so if you wanted to get all classes up that's an additional 9 (battle classes not including DoL or DoH) from the one main you have. Thats 342 days to level all classes at a casual rate and that's not even playing those new classes at max level once you level them. That is crazy! I dont understand why people think that is ok when an expansion only last 2 years.