Am I the only one that sort of kinda likes the nerf to SoF?

IMO not every story quest has to be easy and doable on first try, especially quest that is supposed to end a huge episode of story and is supposed to be epic.

EDIT: Kinda weird that my character cannot kill a few braves and brass blades but it slices dragons like knife slices butter.

Just look on which server those are who like this patch and who does not like this patch...
Its sad to see a community fighting each other splitting apart because of "nothing"...
Do you have statistics from the servers? Square Enix reacted because they had to, not because it is "FUN"...

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Originally Posted by Imoye

Yes, you're the only one...

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False. There are at least two, with me being another. Did it first week in DF group and have zero problem with something i have no need every touching again being made more accessible to a larger number of others.

Oh no! Letting people finish the story is such a bad thing! Meanwhile the rest of us have already cleared it, moved on and have not qued for it since. Just let them have it and move on.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Main scenario trials and dungeons have always been easy though. I really don't think much of it.

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Dungeons are most likely super easy now because of Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius nerfs .-.
Being over geared is another reason, too, but very few dungeons have bosses that actually have mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Dungeons are most likely super easy now because of Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius nerfs .-.
Being over geared is another reason, too, but very few dungeons have bosses that actually have mechanics.

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Funny thing is, that the moment they nerfed it (because people cried for it) we were already overgeared for the dungeons for over 30 ilevel points..

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

Take that as you will. But remember, when youre asking random people to cooperate, you have to take into account that almost no one wants to step up and give out orders and some people just refuse to cooperate even if it means a win for the team. Were humans. Were a**holes by default.

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cooperating in an MMO? god forbid!
you're right, most ppl are idiots, but that's not cause humans are idiots by default, it's cause kids are taught to shut up, and stop asking so many questions; just sit your ass down, and repeat what i said. then they get spoonfed with lies and idiocy.
then they stop asking questions, and stay ignorant, repeating the idiocy they been brainwashed with, never thinking for themselves.
so now we got this big brainless playerbase that can't incorporate other ppl into their play, to clear an easy fight.
and ofc instead of realizing they do it all wrong, they blame SE for making the fight to difficult; no one wanna admit they suck.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

so now we got this big brainless playerbase that can't incorporate other ppl into their play, to clear an easy fight.

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You're right, this "brainless playerbase" is big. In fact, it's so big that it has become one of the primary type of players playing MMORPGs.

This herd of idiots, as you call them, are keeping the game alive.

The least you can do is accept that they should be able to purchase Heavensward and keep paying their monstly sub so SE can make the hard content you want.

FFXIV is designed to have content appealing for as much player types as possible.
The idiots are not leaving and they will keep having content made to match their needs and expectations, just like you also do have content matching your needs.
Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Funny thing is, that the moment they nerfed it (because people cried for it) we were already overgeared for the dungeons for over 30 ilevel points..

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Which is what the main complainers of this thread seem to forget. They might over gear it but I bet the majority of the player base is only ilvl100-110. Couple that with that with the different gaming abilities players have and 1 or 2 mistakes was a wipe.

I don't mind the nerfs even though i believe it didn't need it...BUT i hope they dont adjust Heavensward content based on how people moaned about Steps of Faith. Thats when i will be really annoyed. If they leave it how it is then fine power to the people who enjoy tank and spank content.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Which is what the main complainers of this thread seem to forget. They might over gear it but I bet the majority of the player base is only ilvl100-110. Couple that with that with the different gaming abilities players have and 1 or 2 mistakes was a wipe.

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Ok, so they were outgearing content with 10 - 20 Ilvls and needed a nerf. What are we going to do in Heavensward?
Nerf everything right at release?

EDIT: We need to get to a point where difficulty will start increasing and where people will be expected to fight with their brains instead of equipment.

Wait until they re tune the fight for ilvl50 or give out ilvl100 gear as quest rewards and nerf it again to get new players into the expansion.
This is also story mode with no incentive to do it again not end game content

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

It didn't need one.

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Abandon rates say otherwise.

I'm sorry, but it's just flat misinformation for taking opnion as fact on this. The raw numbers were the deciding factor of the nerf.

It needed to happen, and needed to happen now. There's little over a month until heavensward and there should be no major obstructions keeping people from participating in the baseline experience they paid for when purchasing the expansion.

Those who rely on the 'get gud' argument really have no sense of economics.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Ok, so they were outgearing content with 10 - 20 Ilvls and needed a nerf.

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No it needed a nerf because the majority of the players base is at ilvl100-110 and it was over tuned for that ilvl.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Ok, so they were outgearing content with 10 - 20 Ilvls and needed a nerf. What are we going to do in Heavensward?
Nerf everything right at release?

EDIT: We need to get to a point where difficulty will start increasing and where people will be expected to fight with their brains instead of equipment.

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Don't forget the people who just started ARR (or help them, started after the release of 3.0), where they're probably going to be clutching with the ilvl90 requirement and have a weathered weapon at best. And also exasperates the whole "no one wants to do SoF" factor, esp after the release of 3.0 when we're all past that point.

It is sad to see that SoF got to be nerf, but I do understand it. I don't like where the game is going. I don't believe that the trial was difficult, but the new players attitude that make is seen impossible to complete.

I recently have been leveling a new class and I have been encountering with new players. Most of them don't want to listen and cooperate with someone that is telling them what to do to success. This is the same behavior I saw in SoF. I did my SoF pre-nerf with players that knew that this is an mmo and not a single-player video game so everybody cooperate to finish it. We even helped a new player to finish her SoF on her first try.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

You're right, this "brainless playerbase" is big. In fact, it's so big that it has become one of the primary type of players playing MMORPGs.

This herd of idiots, as you call them, are keeping the game alive.

The least you can do is accept that they should be able to purchase Heavensward and keep paying their monstly sub so SE can make the hard content you want.

FFXIV is designed to have content appealing for as much player types as possible.
The idiots are not leaving and they will keep having content made to match their needs and expectations, just like you also do have content matching your needs.
Deal with it.

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yup, and then there's the kardashians. it's mostly idiots that keep them going too.
as long as the kardashians make money, all is good. the more money they make, the more crazy stuff they can come up with, that cater to the idiots that feed them.
so what's the problem? the kardashians, or the ppl that make them rich?

i dont need hard content, i want fun content. SoF was easy and fun. stupid ppl force it into content you can afk through. might as well just remove the fighting, and have a cutscene instead, where our character stand there like a turd, and have sidekicks, do the fighting for us. that would have been better than nerfing the content.
i'm not complaining about content aimed at many different ppl, that's a good thing. but if you want me to deal with that, maybe ppl can deal with it, that there's content they need to cooperate for, to complete? It's an MMO after all.
It didn't even take a lot to clear it. only to use your brain a little bit. Again, it's end-game story...if you got that far, it should be a cake to go through it. If it's a problem, just ask friends to help you with it, instead of whining after nerfs.
yah and the fight was designed to be as how it was released, so your argument about content appealing to the masses, is kind of meh. Even the devs are overestimating the brain capacity of the masses; having to nerf easy content. They made it easy to begin with, to appeal to the masses. I'm sure they are rolling their eyes too.
There's plenty of hardcore games, that do well...like demon souls/bloodborne. SE don't "need" to cater to low-tier playerbase; they could have made the game more difficult (as XI supposedly was) and it would still have done well, since more HC ppl would have stayed.
Oh i can deal with it. I don't care about coil nerfs and such, as long as i can clear it before the nerfs. I'm just dumbfounded as to why ppl are having such trouble with such an easy fight, to the point that SE had to drastically nerf it. Why can't ppl just learn to cooperate, instead of crying?
In the future, ppl will never again have the opportunity to play the content, as it was initially designed.
I would have hated to start playing now, and getting carried through all the nerfed/easy coils. Would have been boring, and i'd ended up quitting probably.
You can never make everyone happy. Every time you try to appease someone, you anger others, and ppl leave regardless. So they should just stay with what they release. and as you told me, ppl can just deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

You're right, this "brainless playerbase" is big. In fact, it's so big that it has become one of the primary type of players playing MMORPGs.

This herd of idiots, as you call them, are keeping the game alive.

The least you can do is accept that they should be able to purchase Heavensward and keep paying their monstly sub so SE can make the hard content you want.

FFXIV is designed to have content appealing for as much player types as possible.
The idiots are not leaving and they will keep having content made to match their needs and expectations, just like you also do have content matching your needs.
Deal with it.

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Excellent post, whatever Radacci may think of it. :)

Got it in my roulette yesterday. Had to stop myself from instinctively auto-abandoning and actually give it a try. Had 4 new people and we downed him on the first try. I feel like it still takes too long to be in Trial roulette though and should be moved to MSQ Roulette where it belongs.

I think it was a much needed nerf. Its a storyline dungeon, not end game content, its meant to be enjoyed not super challenging. The SoF was too unforgiving I think, if your make the smallest mistake you fail, which is too much to ask for a duty finder group.

Actually, SoF FORCED people to cooperate. If they still refuse to do so, well, it's THEIR problem. They shouldn't have the content spoon-fed to them. Let them wipe till they learn how to properly behave in a MMO.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

SE don't "need" to cater to low-tier playerbase

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Contradicting yourself from a sentence to another aside, with this one you clearly show us that you have absolutly no idea what kind of player are currently making the MMORPG playerbase, and that you don't know how the market is evolving either.

Wanting "these idiots" to go away is just simply not an option. That's what I meant by "deal with it", it was actually not a trolling attempt. You have to deal with the market evolving and the need to adjust content to the masses (really, the word speaks for itself), especially when said content is needed to get to the very first expension of the game.

You are underestimating the impact and the consequences if you suddenly remove half of the playerbase just because they are not above the average skill level.

Besides, the fact that you find that fight easy doesn't mean that it was for everyone. Again, you are ignoring a big part of the community by simply thinking that your experience with this fight is the same for everyone. It's not. SE have the numbers, you don't. If they though that it was needed to increase the number of people able to complete this trial, so be it, we are not making the game, they are.

On a final note: why do you even care? You've cleared this content already and have no need to go back to it. The only reason why you would do it is because it's a part of the Trial Roulette. Even then, I'm pretty sure that you don't want to deal with bad people making your runs a failure over and over again or even people leaving just before the fight even start.
You have absolutly no valid reason to ask for this fight to remain like it was at launch. None.

The word "casual" keeps being thrown around. Casual does not equal bad. SoF was cool in the sense that you needed to actually communicate to get things done, so it was nice to have content outside of Coil that required you to do that. It's a very easy fight if you LISTEN, but not many people are willing to do that, sadly. I was hoping (and still hope) that the difficulty (for lack of a better term, because the fight is not difficult if you listen) would be foreshadowing for Heavensward. You don't want to listen or cooperate? Maybe you shouldn't be playing an MMO in the first place. I'm tired of content being nerfed because people QQ about not being able to faceroll fights.

If only SE added a vote reset....
All of this QQ about difficulty nerf would be like only 1 or 2 threads.
It would keep the difficulty but would allow more attempts and make it more salvagable if an attempt messes up to a point of no return.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

The least you can do is accept that they should be able to purchase Heavensward and keep paying their monstly sub so SE can make the hard content you want.

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You're right. That is the least we can do. . .Why are we aiming to do the least, again? Why aren't we trying to better people? To inspire them to better themselves?

Solution for everyone:

Add SoF (Hard) with the original mechanics with ilevel not synced. ilevel sync the existing SoF to 110.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Solution for everyone:

Add SoF (Hard) with the original mechanics with ilevel not synced. ilevel sync the existing SoF to 110.

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Because players queued into SoF in droves to experience the challenge pre-nerf. No one ever instantly abandoned duty to avoid the fight entirely....wait.

Steps was not casual unfriendly. One of the chat/socializing linkshells I'm in is filled with casual players and none of the 100-someodd players there complained in chat about it being unbeatable. The complaints were mostly limited to people in df bailing after loading in. But to get around that, the casuals formed parties of their own on pf and cleared with other casuals no problem.

Steps was only a roadblock to people who can't read or people who throw fits when somebody tells them what to do.

Not all casual players are the same as the aforementioned morons. They might not be geared optimally, perform rotations optimally, or land all their positionals...etc. But most can read and can handle the one or two tasks required of them in Steps.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Abandon rates say otherwise.

I'm sorry, but it's just flat misinformation for taking opnion as fact on this. The raw numbers were the deciding factor of the nerf.

It needed to happen, and needed to happen now. There's little over a month until heavensward and there should be no major obstructions keeping people from participating in the baseline experience they paid for when purchasing the expansion.

Those who rely on the 'get gud' argument really have no sense of economics.

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This was not that major an obstruction. I think it needs an easier reset button but, this trial was not that difficult; if you could just think it through and actually pay attentions to mechanics instead of burning it down. But also would it be so bad if there were any obstructions?
I appreciate SE wants everyone to experience the basic story. And maybe it isn't fair to just pick five eight teenagers with attitude out of nowhere, just tell them to stop Rita Repulsa and expect them to save the world. A team is only as good as its members.

However the way this game shoves echo down your throat every time we fail a story quest. I see level 50 paladins who don't know what shield oath is, Black mages who spam fire 3 and ONLY fire 3, and they get through it because nothing challenges them at all to learn how to play better.

I just want one fight to be a skill check. Not a gear check, not a dps check, Something simple, that shows you know your ABCs can count past 10 without taking off your shoes, and can tell the difference between a ladybug and a chimera. I feel like this fight accomplishes that, there needs to be something that keeps the bad players from advancing until they get better.

IMO, Steps was not hard in the least and did not need to be nerfed.

What it did need was basic stuff that it should have had from the start; these being a rest on a full wipe, more of a reward to get people to want to redo it (accessory, minion or card drops or more tomes) and potentially moving it from trial roulette to main scenario roulette due to the current much greater completion time necessary for Steps.

It is incredibly easy if you do the simple mechanics the fight was designed with. The real problem comes from many people that have completed it and know the fight don't want to go back and do it again, which hopefully the above suggestions would help with. Then there are the non-majority but ever present group of players that don't know the content and don't want to listen or learn and just expect everyone to "go go go" and carry them so they can clear and get the loot. Unfortunately I can't do much about these people since you can't help those that refuse to be helped (outside of carrying them and I personally do not support carrying dead weight). While fewer than those that want to learn and beat it, they create more of a burden on those that are already having a difficult time making it even harder.

Those are the main issue that I see with Steps, nobody wanting to do it again, which leaves those that want to try to clear it but are not quite able without the assistance that could get them the win and then the lazy and entitled subset of players, that while not the majority of the player base have a noticeable detracting influence on the game experience for many players.

Or at least that is how I feel about the problems with and subsequent nerfs to steps.

People should be able to clear this content and not be locked out from HW, but those that are too busy watching TV while poking at a single key on their keyboard to spam one ability, if they can't clear it well too bad. They shouldn't expect to beat or win at a game if they're not even really playing it.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Actually, SoF FORCED people to cooperate. If they still refuse to do so, well, it's THEIR problem. They shouldn't have the content spoon-fed to them. Let them wipe till they learn how to properly behave in a MMO.

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Have to consider other content though.

Gilgamesh, pretty straight forward, turn into a frog run away from chickens, go mini run away, see an AOE move away from it.

Ultros/Typhon, Target Ultros, when you turn into kappa(DD always) stand in front of Ultros and get stacks of water, avoid getting hit by AOE, when Typhon is about to sneeze attack his with Kappa ability to stop it, rinse repeat and stay on battlefield to win

Towers:Pull skeletons away, don't kill them next to each other, make sure 6 are all dead before killing boss, repeat 2 times and boss is dead (May wipe first time when skeletons runs towards boss and then you realize oh maybe they shouldn't die next to one another)

SoF:use cannons wait for barrier to break down, when first barrier breaks down run to second set of cannons, continue to hold adds and attack boss, when boss gets close enough use snares, when snares are used wait for call and use Dragon Killer, repeat 3 more times and if you miss once you might as well say GG. (also 0 reward for beating it so no incentive for trying it again or helping others.)

But see this is what you should keep in mind, the trial before it wasn't "nerfed" in any way if I recall and you know why? Because that instance is better coordinated than SoF. SoF is fun in the moment and it's exciting, they were able to nail the feel they were going for but it leaves a bad aftertaste in your mouth when you realize that they sort of through balance out the window when they did it.

For one, you die? Big deal just return and use the warp to get back right in the action. That makes people sloppy because death is now not a big deal, they can die and it's like welp I'll just run back not like it matters.

The duty before it, you fight boss, there are queues for his attacks, his first phase change and gimmick is easy to understand, two orbs, have to pick them up in A B order repeating and if you pick up two of same you take severe damage.

Then the chaotic part of stopping the meteorite from failing, reducing damage and preventing wiping by standing in circular areas while others attack the main target, destroy it and then just finish up the boss. Truth is the last trial is better balanced and more grand, it throws you into a situation but it's easier to read it then it is the last trial.

A thought that crossed my mind yesterday was they could of done it in an extremely different manner while having the Dragon Killer's act as an enfeeble and demoralize the minions with Vishap.

Rather than a random assortment of mobs appearing and having to use the cannon to destroy them, instead the task could be something like 12 dragons have taken to the sky, use the cannons to shoot them down, but be weary of how many you shoot down. You wouldn't need to be told that though because the dragons you would be up against would be the same as the ones found near the end of snowcloak that use that powerful AOE. Except in this fight they would use it in unison, so say you dropped 4-5 at once, odds are with them all doing it at the same time you would wipe, and you wouldn't be able to stun them.

The gimmick of course would be that the dragons in the sky would dead extra damage to the defenses/breaking down the barrier, Vishap would still be walking forwards and instead of random mobs spawning it would just focus on the dragons and trying to take them all out to reduce the damage dealt to the defenses.

The other addition could be that the fight isn't about killing all the dragons in the air but rather eliminating what's needed to weaken Vishap. They could of set it where at the start with 12 dragons Vishap would have high defense and high attack, when you defeat 3 his attack lowers, when you defeat 3 more his defense lowers, if you manage to defeat them all it would slow down Vishap. However the fight would just start with 12 dragons, when a defense breaks down more dragons would enter the fray, let's say 4 at each wall so a total of 12 more dragons woudl appear. If you just ignored the dragons then the following would happen. At 16 higher attack, at 20 higher defense, at 24 higher attacker speed.

So you wouldn't be able to just bumrush Vishap, unless you're prepared for 25% dmg potency dealt to the boss. It would be clear and concise to understand, the dragons around Vishap make him stronger, defeat them to weaken him, to make fight easier, use Dragon Killer to make things easier, if you miss just means you either kill more dragons or attack Vishap harder.

At least here you no longer have the idea of "Miss one Dragon Killer" and you might as well wait til it ends. You could remove the poorly executed "if you die it's ok just return and use teleporter to get back into the action" because now the duty is designed with a better balance and better cooperative action to it.

Cause this is what you have, Vishap starts walking, you see a cannon and use it, you realize it shoots in the sky but nothing happens, your thought is maybe it attacks Vishap if he flies into the air or something else. In this case something else. You see the comment "Dragons have taken to the sky, take them out with the cannons" so you fire the cannon, a dragon mob falls to the ground and starts to target the cannon, the tank pulls it off and the rest take it out. Repeat the process 3 more times and you get a comment that Vishap's att has lowered, you then realize that defeating these Dragons weakens Vishap and at the same time notice that the AOE attacks towards the defense are most likely caused by the aerial dragons.

But ya, that's just my two cents of how they could of kept the grand feel of the battle without sadly poorly executing the trial. Because you honestly can't deny that it wasn't or else they would of never put that comment that "When you fall in combat use return and the teleporter to return to the fight" It's the only Duty that's done that and it's because of how they didn't exactly take the time to properly balance it to make it a fun event where death could be prevented but rather a chaotic one.

I just had a thought. I wonder if SE worded their patch notes regarding the nerfs differently, there'd have been less outrage.

For example, instead of saying they reduced such-and-such damage in Steps of Faith, they say that the Ishgardians have improved their technology, and their artillery is now reinforced with upgraded ammunition and casing. As a result, the Ishgardians' fighting spirit have deeply affected you, and together with the Ishgardians, you have become a greater force of reckoning.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

I just had a thought. I wonder if SE worded their patch notes regarding the nerfs differently, there'd have been less outrage.

For example, instead of saying they reduced such-and-such damage in Steps of Faith, they say that the Ishgardians have improved their technology, and their artillery is now reinforced with upgraded ammunition and casing. As a result, the Ishgardians' fighting spirit have deeply affected you, and together with the Ishgardians, you have become a greater force of reckoning.

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No, I dont think wording it differently would have changed the response! lol

People would eventually figure out what was changed, even if it was cryptically described in the patch notes, only to mindlessly argue about it on the forums.

I personally believe that the change to SoF was good because it is required content. Coils however.... not so much.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Contradicting yourself from a sentence to another aside, with this one you clearly show us that you have absolutly no idea what kind of player are currently making the MMORPG playerbase, and that you don't know how the market is evolving either.
Wanting "these idiots" to go away is just simply not an option. That's what I meant by "deal with it", it was actually not a trolling attempt. You have to deal with the market evolving and the need to adjust content to the masses (really, the word speaks for itself), especially when said content is needed to get to the very first expension of the game.

You are underestimating the impact and the consequences if you suddenly remove half of the playerbase just because they are not above the average skill level.

Besides, the fact that you find that fight easy doesn't mean that it was for everyone. Again, you are ignoring a big part of the community by simply thinking that your experience with this fight is the same for everyone. It's not. SE have the numbers, you don't. If they though that it was needed to increase the number of people able to complete this trial, so be it, we are not making the game, they are.

On a final note: why do you even care? You've cleared this content already and have no need to go back to it. The only reason why you would do it is because it's a part of the Trial Roulette. Even then, I'm pretty sure that you don't want to deal with bad people making your runs a failure over and over again or even people leaving just before the fight even start.
You have absolutly no valid reason to ask for this fight to remain like it was at launch. None.

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i don't want the playerbase to go away, i want them to stop complaining about easy fights, and learn to cooperate, and clear it.
i know that everyone have different skill level, but as i stated, if you can get to SoF, you should be able to clear it. If you think it's a bit tough, then practice until you get it down.
the fight comprise of healers healing, tanks pulling mobs, DD doing cannons. how is that different from any other content? what exactly about the fight is so difficult that so many ppl can't clear it?

I care because they will keep making content easier, to cater to the masses, which means the game will be less exciting/fun to play and i'll probably quit.
I care because there's not gonna be any point in even having any fights at all, since you don't really have to "participate" to clear it. Where's it gonna stop? like the first solo fights in the story, where pap and yda fight the boss for you, and heal you while you deal with adds? they might as well stop making trial content, since ppl don't want/can't cooperate.
I think it's a valid reason to keep it that way, cause SE released it that way. And for ppl to make an effort to learn the fight, and clear it on their own merit, instead of getting carried. Maybe that way they could enjoy the game a little bit more. Personally i don't like getting carried, i want to clear it cause i can.
Also the fight IS easy, as i outlined above, there's really nothing new in the fight, except maybe timing spears, and how hard is that to figure out? If you're new, just heal/tank as usual, if you're DD, do cannons....i just don't see where the difficulty is. It's incomprehensible that ppl find it hard, and need nerf.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

You're right. That is the least we can do. . .Why are we aiming to do the least, again? Why aren't we trying to better people? To inspire them to better themselves?

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And why exactly should they adapt to you in order for you to be pleased with the content you want to see?

This is a video game. For a lot of players, it's just a fun thing to spend time on while not caring that much. It's like bowling or minigolf, some people like spending time playing it with their friends, but they have no intention of "becoming better" or improving to match some kind of arbitrary skill level.
Well, there are also people who like playing MMORPG with the same mindset. Shocking, I know, some play a video game for fun only.

These people are a big part of the community, and the devs want to give them some content they may enjoy... So, again, why should they changes their habits, needs and conception of enjoyment of the game just to please you so you can have the content you want to have more of (implying you already have some)?

Isn't that the notion of selfishness? Please, tell me what prevents you from letting these people play like they want while you do your own stuff and occasionnaly faceroll a Main Story fight?

No you're not the only one.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

i don't want the playerbase to go away, i want them to stop complaining about easy fights, and learn to cooperate, and clear it.
i know that everyone have different skill level, but as i stated, if you can get to SoF, you should be able to clear it. If you think it's a bit tough, then practice until you get it down.
the fight comprise of healers healing, tanks pulling mobs, DD doing cannons. how is that different from any other content? what exactly about the fight is so difficult that so many ppl can't clear it?

I care because they will keep making content easier, to cater to the masses, which means the game will be less exciting/fun to play and i'll probably quit.
I care because there's not gonna be any point in even having any fights at all, since you don't really have to "participate" to clear it. Where's it gonna stop? like the first solo fights in the story, where pap and yda fight the boss for you, and heal you while you deal with adds? they might as well stop making trial content, since ppl don't want/can't cooperate.
I think it's a valid reason to keep it that way, cause SE released it that way. And for ppl to make an effort to learn the fight, and clear it on their own merit, instead of getting carried. Maybe that way they could enjoy the game a little bit more. Personally i don't like getting carried, i want to clear it cause i can.
Also the fight IS easy, as i outlined above, there's really nothing new in the fight, except maybe timing spears, and how hard is that to figure out? If you're new, just heal/tank as usual, if you're DD, do cannons....i just don't see where the difficulty is. It's incomprehensible that ppl find it hard, and need nerf.

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It's possible I missed something, but it's my understanding the complaints were primarily about players abandoning it, not the difficulty level of the fight which requires 8 people instead of the 3 left behind after the rest bailed upon zoning in. The fight took too long, "errybody else are stoopid", they were scared, had a first timer join, whatever excuse. This left the others stuck.

Either way, it was enough to make SE notice:
This left those going through the story stuck in content gating them from the expansion which is a month away. This could mean less Heavensward sales.

Why didn't Yoshi just add a pony or card or something to entice players to stay inside instead, who knows. I would guess those require more time and resources than just nerfing one single fight when the devs obviously have their hands full with Heavensward right now.

This isn't a slippery slope. The big picture is that this is a unique case with an encroaching deadline in June to funnel players through a gate.

If they wanted to cater everything to the super casual and/or bad players, then Coil would be under the nerfbat too, especially given the age of much of it.

Also, sidenote to clarify for some of you. "Casual" is not synonymous with "Bad". There's plenty of casuals who will research a fight, perform their job well and often clear all available content. Bad players won’t do these things, and throwing "hard" fights at them will not force them to "get good" because they simply don't care. It's 2015 I thought everyone knew this by now.

I hate nerfs (they can happen naturally). I love gates. But I’m not going to condemn the expansion, devs or Yoshi for opening the gate to Heavensward.

Geez.. nerfs really make you people contradict yourselves several times over. It's almost sad.

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

almost no one wants to step up and give out orders and some people just refuse to cooperate even if it means a win for the team. Were humans. Were a**holes by default.

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My first win in Steps of Faith was in a 100% DF group. When the instance started, I assigned every player a role and told them to focus all their attention on said role and trust everyone to do their own. The first run thru was to get everyone acquainted with their roles I assigned, as I wasn't expecting a one-shot anyway given 6 of the 8 were brand new. After we failed, I answered any questions players had and explained what they did wrong and what needed to be fixed. The 2nd run through we downed it. 8 complete strangers over the internet who followed orders.

Not everyone who plays the game is incompetent and not every human is an a**hole. Don't make assumptions like that.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

And why exactly should they adapt to you in order for you to be pleased with the content you want to see?

This is a video game. For a lot of players, it's just a fun thing to spend time on while not caring that much. It's like bowling or minigolf, some people like spending time playing it with their friends, but they have no intention of "becoming better" or improving to match some kind of arbitrary skill level.
Well, there are also people who like playing MMORPG with the same mindset. Shocking, I know, some play a video game for fun only.

These people are a big part of the community, and the devs want to give them some content they may enjoy... So, again, why should they changes their habits, needs and conception of enjoyment of the game just to please you so you can have the content you want to have more of (implying you already have some)?

Isn't that the notion of selfishness? Please, tell me what prevents you from letting these people play like they want while you do your own stuff and occasionnaly faceroll a Main Story fight?

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Right now, the main scenario requires no skill. To use your minigolf and bowling examples, it's like aiming at one pin in a bowling lane that has bumpers over both gutters, or like playing a mini golf lane that's just a straight line with no humps or anything. I'm sure there are people who would like that, but we can both agree that it's not for everyone, right?

I'm not asking for great things, here. I'd like to think I'm a decent player, but I'm almost certainly not among the best. I'm certainly not going to be contending for server or world firsts any time soon. And I'm not asking anyone to get to my level, or to get to the levels of BG or Lucrezia. I'm not even asking to meet in the middle, so to speak. I'm asking that maybe we teach people how a golfball rolls down hill, or how it bounces off the walls to let you get to a hole around a corner. Or maybe remove the bumpers from the bowling lanes.

What kept people from doing SoF before the nerfs, to continue the metaphor, is that some people are so excruciatingly bad at it that it's like they managed to gutter-ball even with the bumpers on. Which wouldn't be so bad (I mean, it's bad but it's kinda tolerable) if there were any actual rewards, especially if the rewards were commensurate with the time. Unfortunately, you have an instance with essentially no rewards and a high time requirement even if you succeed on the first try.

Now, if SE would actually implement stuff (like they started to with Chrysalis and SoF) to try to raise the lowest common denominator, people might actually get better. If people get better, we would expect to see fewer people throwing their bowling ball across three lanes. Which means that when you get an instance like SoF, you can reasonably expect success within the first try or two without also feeling like some of the party aren't pulling their weight at all. All SE has done here is allow people to play worse while still succeeding.