Why Not Remodel the Summons?

I support this.

As a summoner main I'd love a full sized primal that deals full sized damage. Even better if they made the pet do all the damage, so I could keep my top DPS while doing absolutely nothing!

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Originally Posted by Imoye

Don't see how anyone can defend the current look of the summons.

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Lore.

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Originally Posted by Imoye

They don't need to be a complete rip-off primals, but at the very least make them look decent.

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An example of your interpretation of more decent looking models would be nice.

How about making egi more like little aether versions of themselves? Make them shaped and detailed similar to the real primals but not entirely solid, and make them glow the color of the element they represent? It is sort of what they have now but more obviously primal based without being something that looks like it could potentially turn hostile.
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/im..._Elemental.png
About this solid at most, and primal shaped

Lets please stop using lore as a wall to hide behind every time when someone wants to improve something.

The summons don't have to be as big as our character or even bigger, texture and look improvement would do atleast for me. Lore doesn't forbid that, the problem is time of developers which is most probably going to be used on something that might bother bigger portion of community.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Lets please stop using lore as a wall to hide behind every time when someone wants to improve something.

The summons don't have to be as big as our character or even bigger, texture and look improvement would do atleast for me. Lore doesn't forbid that, the problem is time of developers which is most probably going to be used on something that might bother bigger portion of community.

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Then lets please stop using the "Change it cause I dont like how it looks" excuse when asking to change something that is fully functional.

It's dangerous to go alone, take this!

http://i.imgur.com/wkF2F6N.png

I feel as though the current summons are just placeholders. Some thought went into their design, but they're polarizing compared to every FF summon prior. Even summons that aren't out yet (FFXV) crush XIV's summons.

http://i.imgur.com/GSwWrIp.jpg

Replacing the current egi models with miniature/chibi Puff of Darkness/Succubus version primals would bridge the gap between old style impact summons and current

http://i.imgur.com/FBsH3Lq.jpg

Using Ramuh's mini-me Arbiters as an example were he to get his own egi, a combination of Primal and element can look pretty good. I don't mean Eos/Selene sized, more the primals scaled to egi size and then altered to fit. The primals have very tangible personalities, that don't translate to their egis. Changing them like this would allow SE to give egis their original's personalities and make them a bit more interactive instead of just a third of my damage that I have to babysit

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Then lets please stop using the "Change it cause I dont like how it looks" excuse when asking to change something that is fully functional.

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Well then I congratulate you, you are probably the first person I have met that likes the current summon looks. :D
The look can be more important for some people than functionality, it is just a matter of opinion.

I admit that I am dumb but I wouldnt be able to main a class that is followed by either big yellow potato or some mutated flying green stick. Selene and Eos are much smaller than Garuda and Titan Egi and they still managed to make them more detailed.. atleast they looked like that to me.

I just want my carby back *sniffle*

Know what looked great?

Carbuncles.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Lets please stop using lore as a wall to hide behind every time when someone wants to improve something.

The summons don't have to be as big as our character or even bigger, texture and look improvement would do atleast for me. Lore doesn't forbid that, the problem is time of developers which is most probably going to be used on something that might bother bigger portion of community.

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Something I never understood about the naysayers. Just because their are some who want full on primals ala ff11 doesn't mean everyone who despises egi's want's that.

I miiight be fine if they'd just made the egi's the same size as they are when you fight them in the job quests. I'd definitely be fine if they'd just improve their visual aesthetic as a whole.

They don't need to be mini me primals. Just make them more than a pet rock. Nothing that says the egi's couldn't at least resemble their aspect a little better or just have a general edgier look to them.

Hell, even gameplay wise they could just get rid of the pet idea all together and go for a Dissidia Yuna approach. Incorporating temporary manifestations of the primals power into your spell rotation.

Honestly, this is what I'm hoping for from the summoner changes their making in the xpac. But, I won't get my hopes up lol.... sigh ;-;

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Originally Posted by Hexy

I just want my carby back *sniffle*

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This^

They lured me into SMN with promises of Carbuncle! I wish I could just stay ACN ._.

Carbuncle is the only summon we get that actually reminds me of Final fantasy and beyond that actually looks like a finished model. The others just look like last minute abominations we accidentally conjured while trying to bring our dead mom back to life.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Well then I congratulate you, you are probably the first person I have met that likes the current summon looks. :D
The look can be more important for some people than functionality, it is just a matter of opinion.

I admit that I am dumb but I wouldnt be able to main a class that is followed by either big yellow potato or some mutated flying green stick. Selene and Eos are much smaller than Garuda and Titan Egi and they still managed to make them more detailed.. atleast they looked like that to me.

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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I am not the only one who is not up in arms over an aesthetic aspect of the game. Just look through the rest of this thread, or maybe one of the other threads created about this. Also not sure where you go the impression that i like the current aspect, i only said i understand the reasoning and I'm fine with it. I'm waiting until there is more concrete information on the FC Global Summoning system before I go summoner because I dont feel the summoner is really completed. There are still at least 3 more summons they need to add Egi's for. I know that Egi's arent the final thing for summoners, I dont feel it was rushed but I don't think it is fully flushed out and realized yet.

3.XX will see more filling out of systems introduced through the 2.XX patches.

Magic chicken nuggets and magic hot sauce are great

Its magic cat vomit that needs the most work.

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Originally Posted by Aryalandi

Because the summons you use are not the actual primals, they are fragments of their power that rubbed off on you during the storyline drawn out and given shape.

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Assuming that arcanists are the aetherial version of computer programmers, there's also the fact the "code" arcanists have access to is a bit limited so the next best thing would be getting the egi as close as possible. Sort of how super robots work, where usually the one you see most of the time is a scrubby human interpretation and the upgrade that is almost invincible turns out to be the "true" form of the robot; see the Mazinger mythos for an example (egis = Mazinger Z, full primals = Mazinkaiser).

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Originally Posted by LordHadi

Hello,

I do not own a summoner but I do think it's a fun job to play. However, the only reason that's keeping me from playing this job is how poor the summons look, a big turn off. Seriously what was the team thinking when they created them? Honestly when I first joined the game and looked at them, I was surprised of how bad they looked. They look like they're made out of clay..

Why not remodel and make them look like actual summons..

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Something something server bandwidth. Something something space. Something something Miqote butts removed for space. Something something Heavensward. Something something resources.

With the exception of Miqote butts since that is situation specific, did that sum up the typical arguments as to why we can't have nice things?

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Originally Posted by Jamein

Honestly though, when you look at the summons and the textures it's like you're back playing pokemon red on the gameboy.

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Gotta ketchup them all? ;)

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Originally Posted by myahele

I would've liked it better if they were shrunken down (egi/fairy sized) version of their Primal

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...uda_(FFXI).png

One can dream

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I wish they could look something like that too. I'm awful at PHotoshop so don't laugh:

http://i.imgur.com/JKS77JL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eKRlkSf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1bdj0Cf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uczkrEJ.jpg

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

because yoshi p felt FF11 summons cheapened them because everyone had the summons as their true form.

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...And their implementation of the Egis don't cheapen the look of Summoner as a whole?

People aren't asking for FFXI summons, they're asking for summons that actually look SOMEWHAT formidable, because they currently look laughable. The shear amount of threads since the launch of 2.0 on this exact same topic is testament to that fact.

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Originally Posted by Arkann

I wish they could look something like that too. I'm awful at PHotoshop so don't laugh:

http://i.imgur.com/JKS77JL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eKRlkSf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1bdj0Cf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uczkrEJ.jpg

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Wow! Amazing work. If only it would something similar will be implemented ;_;

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Full fledged summons that use their signature moves are coming soon. There are other systems taking priority right now but it is in the works. Until then, these are elementals so i dont see what the problem is.



Source

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I dont think that has anything to do with the SMN kit. It will be a standalone system where a party can summon the prime form of a primal to do their bidding for a short time. "An Ace in the Hole." system much like Limit Break

Much like how Lightning summoned that Odin to help her out during the Lightning Returns event in Mor Dhona.

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

Ramuh's mini-me

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It would be great if the egi's had the personality and memories of their greater form, hearing ifrit trash talk to you every time you give him an order or have garuda spam "hehehehohohoho" every time she lands the killing blow on a target, Titan can always talk about flipping tables and restaurant destruction.

Somehow I think I'd be even more disappointed with summoner if their avatars looked like these big imposing beasts yet dealt as much damage as a four year old. I'd sooner they fix the latter problem and make them more useful before worrying about how they look.

SMN's should just be able to summon a black mage. All problems solved.

I want Ramuh, Lord of Levin, Primal of the Sylphs as my summons..

I want him to attack with his beardy swing-swing and tentacle beardy.

Still looks bad imo, would still love to see them change. The argument that they would look and feel less powerful, I feel, is not true because in FFXI, heck pretty much any FF, they felt awesome (even though they weren't that crazy lol, just the visuals drove the feeling). Also other MMORPGs have had larger more intimidating summon/pet classes and seemed to also be appreciated, without destroying computers, raids, social order, and world peace. WoW/Aion as off hand examples (variance, size, complexity). But to be clear I don't want or think 'full scale' primal would be best, just not what I'd describe as magical beanie baby moogles - if a moogle was drowned in elemental aether it'd make an egi we have now lol.

Yoshida can have his own reason and stick with it (he's definitely the boss lol), won't stop me saying that it is merely an opinion that many do not share*- disagreement to the feeling it actually cheapens the primal by having something that looks more akin. Even if it wasn't the primal but some other complete aspect of the primal that took more of a Zodiac/ark FFXII art style I'd greatly appreciate it over the current floaty baby crystal food (potato, red jalapeno, booger). Although I think the Jalapeno looks ok.

*Should be obvious but by saying this I don't revoke your ability to agree with Yoshida or claim to, lol.

Thing is.. I can agree entirely with the view that primals would seem less powerful if everyone was running around with them, and that is excluding how bad of an idea it would be to have imposing looking primal egi fallowing you around because if they are too close to being who they represent it means that they could start taking in aether and tempering people.

In XI there are so many summoners that it does kind of cheapen the avatars being there, my main character Zarumaru in XI is a summoner~ and summons all look amazing x.x until there are suddenly about 50 in the same place.. then they look amazing but not so special.

In almost every other final fantasy being a summoner was sonething that defined a charactet as being /very/ special, there were so few of them that it was never diluted. In XI and XIV there are as many summoners as there are players who want to play them in spite of the lore saying otherwise. And it is odd seeing so many people run around with god-pets. It is why Bahamut never became summonable in XI

They could make the egi models more defined and primal shaped, but this isn't any of the other final fantasy games, summoner in xiv is different. I like that they are planning to add primal summons (wondering what the story will be for that being ok to do) but having primals available to players all the time would make things awkward unless you ignore every other summoner around you.

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Originally Posted by Aryalandi

Thing is.. I can agree entirely with the view that primals would seem less powerful if everyone was running around with them, and that is excluding how bad of an idea it would be to have imposing looking primal egi fallowing you around because if they are too close to being who they represent it means that they could start taking in aether and tempering people.

In XI there are so many summoners that it does kind of cheapen the avatars being there, my main character Zarumaru in XI is a summoner~ and summons all look amazing x.x until there are suddenly about 50 in the same place.. then they look amazing but not so special.

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Eh, I can't get behind the special snowflake reasoning he gave us. Give me something that feels like a Summon and I'll be all right, regardless of if its cheapened in a group. Should i feel cheapened when I see everyone wearing AF armor? I thought it was super special and i some cases suppose to be one of a kind? Should i feel cheapened with so many Ninja's running around? They're suppose to be super scarce on this land and yet everyone seems to be an expert! Should I feel ripped off with all the BLM's using Flare? Hey, thats an ancient banished spell, Why is everyone using it?

Its not only bad logic, but its also surrounded by hypocrisy when you consider everything else in this game that is suppose to be special and yet everyone gets to dip their hands in it.

The real problem is Summoner does not even feel like a Summoner... I'm sorry to say but if they can't work around the lore of FFXIV regarding Primals and give us something that makes us feel like Summoner's and not a flunk-out knock off, they shouldn't have bothered introducing the job. in XI the Summons actually looked like and reminded me of Summons from a Final Fantasy series title, I could recognize all of them.. When it comes to XIV's "Egi's", they are not amazing alone or in a group. I'd rather have an "Amazing" summon alone and a "Kinda amazing" summon in a group than a "Interns first model project" solo and a "Why did these abominations make it past pre-alpha" in a group.

Hands down Diabolos was one of my favorites and never once did I feel like he was cheapened when others used him, and I always felt awesome having him close by, even if he wasn't the most powerful.

Maybe I can understand not having Mini-primals (Ifrit looks like the Roach monster from MIB anyway), but give us something, I mean at least make them look more like their primal forms, Ifrit doesn't even have legs for shits sake.

Make the summoner feel like a pet class and not a DoT Class with some pixelated Japanese porn standing next to it for auto attacks and people would be happy.

Watching the Heavensward benchmark trailer, I noticed that the Ifrit-Egi by the Summoner's side appeared both larger and retextured (even when running the dx9 version) compared to what we have now. My prediction is that the "FC summon" concept is abandoned and given to SMN as their lb animation (depending on the summoned egi).

We all spank Ifrit Garuda and Titan Extreme so often now that I doubt a bigger Egi would cheapen them anymore than pony farming already has.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

The real problem is Summoner does not even feel like a Summoner.

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Because FFXIV Summoner is not the same as FFXI Summoner. The lore behind the two are completely different. The same can be said about the other FF's in the series. Could the design team have done something? Probably. Should they? Probably not. It's a design choice. They can't please everyone. Someone is bound to complain about the new designs if they reworked them.

...may be let the summoner 'transforms' (have the primal looking aura wrap around the player) into the primal and can only use that primal's ability. ticks down TP while transformed. spends mp for primal abilities.

gets new job ability that regains tp may be while not transformed.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Because FFXIV Summoner is not the same as FFXI Summoner.

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Just my opinion, but FFXI has nothing to do with the current iteration of summoners not feeling like summoners.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

Just my opinion, but FFXI has nothing to do with the current iteration of summoners not feeling like summoners.

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I think a lot of people would disagree with you. A lot of dissatisfied Summoners - in this very thread, even - have been pointing out how Summoning was handled in FFXI and asking, "Why can't our Summons be like those?"

FFXI's take on Summoner isn't the only reason the current iteration of summoners don't feel like summoners, but it is too much to say that it has nothing to do with it.

As a FFXI Summoner myself, though, I think a lot of the nostalgia is misplaced. Almost from the day it was released, Summoners in FFXI ALSO complained that Summoners there didn't feel like Summoners. Due to the long delays between opportunities to use an Avatar's special abilities, Summoners were pretty poor in terms of DPS, and so generally were shoehorned into healing duty. They were third-rate healers, but their innate MP regen and large MP pool made them passable. A Summoner spent roughly 95% of their time with no summon out, due to the fact that Avatars steadily consumed MP as long as they were out (part of the reason for SMN's huge MP pool). Eventually, SE made improvements that helped move Summoners out of the third-rate healer category (some Avatar abilities were put on seperate cooldowns, Avatar MP-over-time cost was reduced and more MP regen gear was added, and so on), but by then Abyssea had come and gone and turned the whole metagame on its head anyway.

As for the visual appearance of Avatars, they were the exact same size and shape as the real Prime Avatars - but that doesn't mean they looked particularly good. Both they and the originals were crude models with a very low polygon count. While textures and vertex averaging helped hide it, viewed from certain angles it was easy to see that, for example, Titan and Ifrit had rectangular arms. The fact that they were so large meant that they often obscured the view, especially if there were a lot of Summoners around.

I didn't hate FFXI's Summoner, but in terms of playstyle FFXIV's Summoner is a lot more fun. That's just my opinion.

This iteration of Summoner took the Black Mage Bio and Miasma spells then based the whole job around it when the job should of been based around the Pets. Summoner's main attack power should come from the Pet and DoTs should be secondary. The Egi we fight in the job quest should be the Egi we get but we get a smaller Egi with different spells. The Egi we fight can use all of their corresponding Primals abilities as well as summon elementals themselves.
Ifrit-Egi- can use eruption and summon fire elementals that cast fire 2 when we fight him.
Titan-Egi- can use weight of the land which drops a heavy debuff and 15s DoT effect
Garud-Egi- can use razor plumes and summon Chirada-Egi and Suparna-Egi

You guys are so worried about the size and image it's unreal.

Let's say we have XI sized summons that were with us. So we go into an instance in say WoD and have 4 summoners. Sometimes it happens, so every Summoner pulls out Ifrit-Egi and then goes to town on the first boss. Let's say other alliances have Summoners and pull out their Ifrit's and start attacking the first boss. This is now a visual mess seeing multiple Ifrit-Egi's going up to said boss and potentially blocking it from view. Would I still be able to target it? Yeah, I can make some filters and basically tab over to the boss, that's not really a problem, but what about telegraphed attacks or for the Main Tank to even see where the target circle is for a particular mob. You guys are trying to create a visual nightmare. Please think about these things further instead of just saying oh we need bigger summons.

SMN? a fun job? .. No .. geez no, my main was a smn and i leaved it months ago because it was all about

ruin+3 dots

an thats all you do.

To answer OP's question - because the dev team is small, there are way too many other (bigger) things that need focus (at any given time), and it would require too much work. 8)

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

FFXI's take on Summoner isn't the only reason the current iteration of summoners don't feel like summoners, but it is too much to say that it has nothing to do with it.

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Point taken, but coming from the perspective of someone who only has passing familiarity with the Final Fantasy series, and has played capable pet classes in other games, a correlation to Final Fantasy XI doesn't have to be made to say, "something feels slightly off."

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Originally Posted by Aureyo

Please think about these things further instead of just saying oh we need bigger summons.

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Please don't assume that FFXI-sized summons is the only solution. If you've seen the new benchmark, people have been suggesting that Ifrit-Egi "looks" bigger (I personally just think it's because of the camera angles, but that's besides the point). Do you see people freaking out that Ifrit-Egi looks "too big"? That if there were multiple summoners in the party, nobody would be able to see?

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All that aside, summoner has issues more important than just aesthetics that need addressing.

i think they would reshape it as a chibi version of primals, more detail, and is lore friendly, because we are using a portion of their power, of course in a chibi version :P