Why we need parsers

We need parsers, so we can see that the highest dps isn't from the person 2nd on the threat list. Quelling strike does wonders...

There are a few options out there that would improve player comprehension of their roles without just throwing data at you and expecting you to understand how you are falling short:

- A trainer
- A quest/line of quests
- (OMG!) Forums
- (PSN) Gameplay Broadcast

There are some options out there that could be added that would improve player performance that would be easier to implement than a parser:

- Macro Swapping Macros
- Macro Cueing
- /Command and /wait timings that don't round to the nearest second
- Manually placeable AOEs centered on current target
- ...tbc

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Originally Posted by radioactive_lego

There are a few options out there that would improve player comprehension of their roles without just throwing data at you and expecting you to understand how you are falling short...

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Because everyone who will say "I'm parsing you at about 300 dps, but at your gear you should be averaging 500" will refuse to offer tips after that statement...?

Don't get me wrong, your other methods are nice for people who have the free time to just sit and explore them. But parsing is on-the-fly data that's easy to confirm, hard to dispute, and if actually implemented as an option in the game, a method for people who don't have access to the Internet / time to search the other options to look said things up. And since almost any DPS value call out will be happening mid-Duty, on-the-fly is pretty useful.

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Originally Posted by KikoriL

Because everyone who will say "I'm parsing you at about 300 dps, but at your gear you should be averaging 500" will refuse to offer tips after that statement...?

Don't get me wrong, your other methods are nice for people who have the free time to just sit and explore them. But parsing is on-the-fly data that's easy to confirm, hard to dispute, and if actually implemented as an option in the game, a method for people who don't have access to the Internet / time to search the other options to look said things up. And since almost any DPS value call out will be happening mid-Duty, on-the-fly is pretty useful.

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And the problem with parsers is they don't account for actions that are taking place that bring down a characters deeps.

-some bard songs
-summoner rezzing
-healers... uh... healing.

I see folks getting indignant when I conserve a bit of mana by not spamming Aeros/Stones during that 5s window where I might not have to heal someone. Or they just get rude when I let FoF lapse for 10s because i'm trying to keep the NIN from getting killed.

If someone is obviously lacking, it will be obvious. Parsers are just another excuse for people to be *******s when someone goes off recipe by two grains of salt.

i can see pros and cons with it.. i guess why se didn't put anything in is that it would force the elitists to abuse other players for not doing enough dps etc its already a toxic community within the n/a servers as it is why introduce more.. and yes i know some pc users use illegal 3rd party ones but ps4 users can't at all..by that lining them up for abuse already.. while these are cons imo being able to improve your dps and practicing with your rotation etc is not a bad thing and i don't think hitting a striking dummy is sufficient for elitist or ppl that want to improve!! i have no clue what my dps is even to the point of testing between my 110 crafted fully melded with ninja zeta over my full 120 poetic gear stat wise my dex and hp are better but my acc crit and det on my melded shits all over my poetics and i have no solid way of testing whats better!!

so I'm ultimately torn between two things the elitists abuse to some one who just want to have fun and play and the fact that SE has given us an ability to craft and meld gear with no clear or sufficient way to test the difference which also sucks!!

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Originally Posted by radioactive_lego

And the problem with parsers is they don't account for actions that are taking place that bring down a characters deeps.

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Many players are smart enough to know to account for this. There's no hard set line where a healer absolutely HAS to contribute ___ dps to a fight, but there are estimates for what someone should be able to do at their item level. Bards are expected to play their songs, and their DPS drop is equally expected in the estimate. If a Summoner has to revive someone, it's a very justified excuse for why there's a DPS drop. Lack of communication or experience is a far more likely culprit for arguments than the actions themselves here.

If people are getting grumpy over you not using every second of your time to its absolute maximum for dps, dps, dps, that's a brand of elitism that's also present and not really dependent on parsers. I personally don't enjoy when healers do nothing but heal despite knowing the tank isn't in danger of dipping under half health, but if someone gets snippy for that reason, it's a behavioral issue. And not one I condone.

Parses are still just a tool. Harassment is still harassment, regardless of its tools, is reportable, and will still be reportable if an official parser comes out. And elitists' harassment is still harassment, regardless of correctness, and is also reportable.

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Originally Posted by slml320

i can see pros and cons with it.. i guess why se didn't put anything in is that it would force the elitists to abuse other players for not doing enough dps etc its already a toxic community within the n/a servers as it is why introduce more..

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Again, toxic players will be toxic. Simply providing the tool doesn't "force" anyone to be abusive.

I wish players in general would spend less time being concerned about what some phantom elitist might possibly say about them and more time being concerned with how they could improve their own game experience. I'm going to venture out on a limb here and suggest that most players enjoy clearing content and being confident in their playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Asheilin

Another way to do it is have a solo battle, at current caps, that allows the player to know how they're doing; that can be re-taken as desired. Warcraft implemented the proving grounds, and you had to achieve silver grading or higher to duty into Cap content. From my friends still playing, they say while its a pain; it's helped alot.

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I liked this Idea. We could have a fight where the game evaluates you based on your iLevel and damage output. You would be allowed to enter the hard dungeons/raids when you get a certain score or above. It doesn't even need to be in numbers, could be a bronze/silver/gold rating...
So the people who need improving will get better and everyone who is on the raid is "certified" to be there. There will be no numbers to say if any person better or worse than other, everyone got gold ranked to be there...

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Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

We could have a fight where the game evaluates you based on your iLevel and damage output.

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Except Ilv is a joke (or have you not seen casters and healers w/ 130 fending accessories in WOD?). If it were rebalanced, perhaps.

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Originally Posted by radioactive_lego

Except Ilv is a joke (or have you not seen casters and healers w/ 130 fending accessories in WOD?). If it were rebalanced, perhaps.

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One more reason to have a trial that compares iLv to dmg (or healing capacity). If anyone is using non-optimal gear just to get to the iLv necessary to get to the raid, the trial will prove if the person is able to make up for the lack of needed stats. If the person is able to pass the trial, they automatically deserve to be in the raid, even with 'bad gear'.

The problem is that SE would have to trial everyone once they changed gear and they would use a low threshold to let more people in...

We are forgetting, parsers will allow us to highlight those toxic players so that we can avoid them.

Ilvl is crap, ignore it it is BS.


Yes I understand they shouldnt allow ilvl 70 into t13 on duty finder for obvs reasons. But let people queue up in a grp with whatever gear they like, if they can put the numbers out and contribute to the raid as required thats good enough.

I could imagine this, Say you do real low dps as a dps in one duty then people add you to a list of people to avoid on some website or just say avoid this troll in city zones.
Also if parsers were aloud guess what the Gm's would not be able to stop this type of harassment because its part of the game so that's why this should never happen.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

I could imagine this, Say you do real low dps as a dps in one duty then people add you to a list of people to avoid on some website or just say avoid this troll in city zones.
Also if parsers were aloud guess what the Gm's would not be able to stop this type of harassment because its part of the game so that's why this should never happen.

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If you were so aggressively terrible that fellow players felt the need to actively avoid you, the treatment would in all likelihood be deserved.

But no, harassment would still remain an offense. We already have parsers, just none for console players. If ostracizing players for poor DF performance were a thing, 95% of players in CT/ST/WoD would be personae non gratae.

I for one support parsers, they have helped me and others in my former static group.

Here's and example: We had two dragoons in our static, me and somebody else, her gear was somewhat better than mine, yet her DPS was half of what I was able to pull off, so what did we do? We trained her.

I admit that parsers can be wrongly used by gauging someone's DPS and getting downright offensive about it, it has happened to me too, so the best fix I can think of is growing a thicker skin. Simply enjoying the game whether you are good at it or not is fine by itself, but in my opinion it's different when it's about MMOs, you are playing with other people who you don't even know, so it's inconvenient for the others if you aren't pulling your weight. Hardly a big deal in dungeons and other casual content, but don't even think about trying to clear any of the harder content if you aren't willing to up your game accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I for one support parsers, they have helped me and others in my former static group.

Here's and example: We had two dragoons in our static, me and somebody else, her gear was somewhat better than mine, yet her DPS was half of what I was able to pull off, so what did we do? We trained her.

I admit that parsers can be wrongly used by gauging someone's DPS and getting downright offensive about it, it has happened to me too, so the best fix I can think of is growing a thicker skin. Simply enjoying the game whether you are good at it or not is fine by itself, but in my opinion it's different when it's about MMOs, you are playing with other people who you don't even know, so it's inconvenient for the others if you aren't pulling your weight. Hardly a big deal in dungeons and other casual content, but don't even think about trying to clear any of the harder content if you aren't willing to up your game accordingly.

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See, this is the kind of result we should be focusing on. Rather than being afraid of the people that'd be hurt by it by people who would harrass with or without parsers, let's work on the good we ourselves can acheive and the people we can help. Good for you and your friend.

If your so worried about assholes, so why not make an effort to just be more helpful to people and drown them out?

I support the idea of a personal parser.

"THIS is how much YOU do."

Then there could be a method of finding out what your performance should be (A forum board that collects data from survey, an in-game calculator npc like your job trainer or something, or google/reddit).

If someone want to insult you, he does not need parser to do it. Good parser (like recount in WoW) actually is not about dps/hps competition at all, it helps to understand game mechanics.

Just use ACT like everyone else.

EQ2(the game it was originally made for) allows addons, but DPs meters aren't possible.

You get result after fights, when it matters. :p

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Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

One more reason to have a trial that compares iLv to dmg (or healing capacity). If anyone is using non-optimal gear just to get to the iLv necessary to get to the raid, the trial will prove if the person is able to make up for the lack of needed stats. If the person is able to pass the trial, they automatically deserve to be in the raid, even with 'bad gear'.

The problem is that SE would have to trial everyone once they changed gear and they would use a low threshold to let more people in...

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WoW proving grounds.

Didn't fix the fail. And I wish folks would stop saying "illegal". This isnt law guys.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Just use ACT like everyone else.

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Except console players.

Even forgetting about that for the moment, I'd prefer something in-game so that all players would learn that there actually is an expectation that they DPS well. Most people who seek out and utilize parsing tools are already aware that DPS is an important metric and that pushing whichever button they like best doesn't automatically equate to good gameplay.

It would be enough, if there would be "training missions" (maybe like guildheists) for every class. With different difficulties so that you can improve yourself.

Some way like this:
For Tanks: 1. Rotation-Training (dps/emnity-check) 2. CD-Rotation-Training 3. Both
For healers: 1. Heal-Training (HPS-Check) 2. Healer/Emnity-Check (No-Overheal-check) 3. DPS+Heal-Check
For DPS: 1. Rotation-Training (single-target) 2. Rotation-Training (multi-target) 3. Rotation-Training (both) with AoE-dodging

At the end you get a rank.. D, C, B, A or S and a nice title. :D

i would like parsers on ps4 please

I couldnt imagine maining DPS if i was playing on PS4 and couldn't access an parser. I always try to improve myself by getting a new high everytime i do a fight. on shiva ex my goal used to be 500, then 550, then 600, then 625, next is 650 but i haven't managed that yet, but this still makes farming ponies that i already have with my static kinda fun since the farm itself turns into an peronal challenge rather than just redoing the same shitty fight over and over again.

Same with doing savage, i always set up some dps goals for myself in the earlier phases that you do over and over again on autopilot while learning the later/last phases.

The only thing i don't like when discussing dps is when ppl compare their dps to top parses with tailor made strats to push someones dps. like those 700+ blm t10 parsers where you aoe all adds at once and dont use lb. or any t13 parse really due to the nature of the add phase, this is a completly different issue then the ~200dps carried ppl you find in most pugs though.

Rather than focusing on the potential harrasement i'd argue for parsers simply because its an good tool to improve as an dps, it also makes dpsing a lot more fun.

Discussing HPS is pointless imo though.

can they at least add a paper system for striking dummies so that while i am practicing on a dummy it tells me how much damage i have done and how long in battle with it?

i see no harm having a system that tells you how much damage you have done and how long while attacking a training dummy

fine they don't want to add parsers in parties because sucky people might get yelled at for not doing well ok but parsers should be implemented when you solo against a dummy please

I love that the entire argument boils down to "We shouldn't have parsers, because it makes people feel bad to be told they suck!" Never mind that it could only be beneficial to a group as a whole to figure out what's lacking, and improve accordingly. The players that suck would be booted out anyway, regardless of parse. Because they do suck. And even without the actual numbers, we can tell how much they suck, just by keeping any eye on them. You can tell at a glance, watching the DoTs on the boss, and the buffs they get, who sucks at their class. All a parse would do is make it so those of us who want to improve can have a tool to help that.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Yes.

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I entirely agree with this sentiment.

Parsers are great, because as I stated in my earlier post, this is an MMO, it's not okay to hold others back and not do anything about it, you can't expect other people to hold your hand through content. So while I'm sure that there will always be people to call others bad as long as there are parsers, the fault doesn't lie in the tool itself but in those who use it, and ultimately in players that are... well... bad.

All in all, I can only advice people to grow a thicker skin.

Any news on Add-ons? I heard they were going to be implemented in 2.5 or something... What happened?

yeah ps4 players need parsers