Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I don't think the execution was horrible. Room for improvement, sure, there's a few sore points...

...But the alternative, a road many MMOs take, is "We don't write anything that actually impacts the world very much." GW2's "living story" is another way around it, but then there's no way to revisit past events for new or just busy players.

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I hate GW2s Living Story with a passion. Since this is an MMO, we're used to stuff always remaining the same. What I'd want is more akin to a pre-expansion event. I like the fact they went with such a drastic change to the story but I'd be even more impressed if they managed to merge the story developments with game world changes. Not something huge, just something that shows, doesn't tell, that stuff changed.

My major problem was...

The ESCAPE scene. OK I can buy being captured. It's stupid but OK.
I can buy no one stepping in to help. It's actually pragmatic since there ARE innocents in the room.
I CANNOT buy all the scions needing to do that "hold the line!" thing. We're stronger than they are. That's why they turn to us to kill Primals. To kill MASSIVE UBER DRAGONS like the one we JUST KILLED. You know...the REASON we're there in the first place.
WE should be the ones holding the line so THEY can escape. It's even the heroic thing to do.
Not even getting into the fact that we're basically immortal while they aren't.

/because10characters...

Even if the NPC tell me why i can still walk around Ul'dah it still feels weird. I'm sure every Brass Blade and Crystal Brave isn't on your side. Any time I go Ul'dah now it doesn't feel right after the cutscene, it can still be immersion breaking a bit. I liked the fact that they tell you oh you can't go to the Rising Stone, This was good because it shows the impacts of the events. I can understand that blocking of Ul'dah for those who have done the quest could be a bad idea but at least change the environment or something.

Also, I HATE how passive we are. This is why I like Star Wars The Old Republic. We made a character and they gave us choices. Even though some choices i may not say there is always generally a alternative to what I would say. If you want to be passive then pick your ... option and be silent and boring. Most people here don't like how their characters are passive based on how they reacted on the recent quest. The whole weapon thing is just a cheap trick on SE part, they only did it for plot convenience i mean they didn't even show your weapon be given or anything before the cutscene. Suddenly right after the carriage you have it back... WHERE DID IT COME FROM!!? It makes no sense and you know it. We didn't pick it up, no one said they grabbed our weapon and we didn't find it. Just shows that part made no sense whatsoever. Saying they took the weapon before the private meeting is a weak excuse sadly. Don't try cover up SE poor story telling there because it makes no sense.

If they are going to put our character in such a situation GIVE US CHOICES. It's not that hard if people like being passive let them be with the ... option. Then give a more aggressive type option and perhaps another one which isn't as aggressive if other games can do it SE can do it, actually they have done it before during the 2.0 story with Gaius and at the start of the game =_=. This shows they can do it but some reason they abandoned it. Overall the cutscene was nice but the way how they made your character weak there was just bad im sorry. Also if they did take it there is no way they have a clone of my Longinus Zeta. I'm sure the Lalafell or Alphinaud didn't give it to me because they didn't even mention they had it in the first place. If they said they found it when they were coming back I would let it slide but they didn't so it still makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Addicted

I hate GW2s Living Story with a passion. Since this is an MMO, we're used to stuff always remaining the same. What I'd want is more akin to a pre-expansion event. I like the fact they went with such a drastic change to the story but I'd be even more impressed if they managed to merge the story developments with game world changes. Not something huge, just something that shows, doesn't tell, that stuff changed.

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IMO they did exactly that? A lot of NPC dialogue (guildmasters and street NPCs, etc) changes after you complete 2.55.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

[Stuff - It's the heroic thing to do.]

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...Gotta agree with this.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

My major problem was...

The ESCAPE scene. OK I can buy being captured. It's stupid but OK.
I can buy no one stepping in to help. It's actually pragmatic since there ARE innocents in the room.
I CANNOT buy all the scions needing to do that "hold the line!" thing. We're stronger than they are. That's why they turn to us to kill Primals. To kill MASSIVE UBER DRAGONS like the one we JUST KILLED. You know...the REASON we're there in the first place.
WE should be the ones holding the line so THEY can escape. It's even the heroic thing to do.
Not even getting into the fact that we're basically immortal while they aren't.

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This is what bugged me most when iw as going through, but I agree with pretty much all of the complaints so far

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

IMO they did exactly that? A lot of NPC dialogue (guildmasters and street NPCs, etc) changes after you complete 2.55.

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Tangible changes to the game world, however small. I guess you could fit NPC dialogue in that category as a change to the game world but I'm looking for something more substantial. Much of the NPC changed dialogue, while still a consequence of completing the story, is more of a way to justify why everything remains the same.

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Originally Posted by Addicted

Tangible changes to the game world, however small. I guess you could fit NPC dialogue in that category as a change to the game world but I'm looking for something more substantial. Much of the NPC changed dialogue, while still a consequence of completing the story, is more of a way to justify why everything remains the same.

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They announced a long time ago that they want to revamp Ul'Dah.
With all this, it looks like they plan to hold to that.
However, for us at it stands now, they're not finished and still have a TON of work associated with 3.0.
Change will come.
And it kinda has to remain the same otherwise players could potential be blocked out of content such as class quests, job quests, moogle mail quests, EX primal quests, dungeon quests, and...oh yeah.
Hildibrand. A LOT of that quest chain involves Ul'Dah.

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Originally Posted by Addicted

Tangible changes to the game world, however small. I guess you could fit NPC dialogue in that category as a change to the game world but I'm looking for something more substantial. Much of the NPC changed dialogue, while still a consequence of completing the story, is more of a way to justify why everything remains the same.

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Well, but as a political event/storyline, it's basically all about the people involved. I mean Revenant's Toll has been growing patch by patch... but well, what could they do for this? I'm having a hard time seeing what they could change besides the people. We do lose access to the Rising Stones, sensibly...

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It's a fair point. I think, however... FTBs can imply passivity (no visual cues like us taking up a fighting stance to counter that), especially when you add in that a few scenes after when, instead of helping our liberator, we did outright flee. On camera.

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It's not bad to have a problem with that, really. And I understand it unless you consider the following:

The FTB in this case didn't assume a struggle because, again, some of us would've chosen to be captured because Teleji, no matter how much of a rat he was, loves having a captive audience and to be visible. He's not the type to quietly behead you when he's setting you up to take the fall.

Teleji Adeleji basically publicly accused us and the Scions of treason, from what I can tell outside of those present at the banquet there has been no formal announcement to Ul'dah. That means the damage was already done when Raubahn cut you lose. Everything the scions are doing right now is getting their strongest member on the most important task they're faced with right now, getting their names cleared so they can move freely about the city-states again. There is no one stronger than you, and so the 'hold the line' bit was because they needed you, yes you, specifically out of there. Because if you all held the line together and things just went pear-shaped, that'd be it. You'd all be rotting in a cell next to Raubahn awaiting that trial and public execution to finish out Lolorito/Teleji's scheme.

They told you to keep moving because you've proven time and again you're the one who can rise to any challenge, and that's what they need right now.

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Originally Posted by Addicted

Another thing that I found very odd was our pick of exile to Ishgard. Why Ishgard? Gridania and Limsa want nothing to do with what happened in Ul'dah and it's not like the Braves or the Brass Blades have any agency in those 2 cities. Sure, Coerthas is a much more isolated place and it'd be harder to get information on you but I found it odd as a first choice, especially since you were already headed towards the Black Shroud.

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"Because I feel our Warrior of Light Fanboys over Haruchefant as much as he fanboys over our Warrior of Light." All joking aside, or am I? Seriously though, Ishgard is still under assault and its still in the best interest of the realm to reinforce Ishgard. View it as we may as well go there since we were heading back there anyway. Even if the Red Wedding, I mean Victory banquet, went off without a hitch or even if we fought back, We would have responded to Ishgard's need for help due to the dragons getting into the City.

just to add my 2 cents first of i had antidotes on me so i could have possibly cured that poison also im a blm i dont need a weapon to cast do i? (sure the spells would be weaker but nonetheless effective for exsample sleep or freeze)

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Originally Posted by kyuven

My major problem was...

The ESCAPE scene. OK I can buy being captured.

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Think it was just an excuse to make them seem useful. The player character(s) always slay the big baddies and save everyone so I guess they figured they needed to make the scions seem useful so they thought up some kind of "go out in a blaze of glory" scene for each of them and threw it in there at the end. Not that they're actually dead or anything. (doubt it)

This entire collection of scenes reminds me of when the Waking Sands gets attacked and afterwards how the player character slowly rebuilds the Scions with Alphinaud and Cid. Same kind of feeling. I guess this time it will just be in Ishgard instead.

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Here are things I've noticed:
* The weapon thing. Anyone in the military/police are trained to never EVER surrender your weapon. In my case, I had a priceless relic on my person, there is NO WAY I would allow myself to be disarmed. DRAWING your weapon is not allowed in that hall. You may still possess a weapon. The GC leaders all have their weapons on their person. I would think the Sultana of all people would allow us to keep our weapons.

* The actual coup. I would have enjoyed a battle with Raubahn. We may end up getting overwhelmed in which case Raubahn tells us to leave while he makes his final stand.

* The evac. This is just insulting. We run away like pansies after fighting primals, Garleans, dragons, and whatever else and we flee. I was hoping we would have a huge battle while we were evacuating with the Scions being party members. I wouldn't actually mind an escort type mission by protected Minfilia as we fight our way out.

* And something I just thought of while reading a previous post. Where in the world is the Sultanasworn? You know, the bodyguards to the Sultana. They weren't even in that hall or in the Sultana's chambers. If they were paid off, just wow.

* That lalafell we meet, Pipin I think? I get the feeling he's actually the Sultana's brother and the heir to the throne. Nanamo never actually had the opportunity to abdicate the throne before, you know. It's still a Sultanate for now.

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Originally Posted by ElieDavion

just to add my 2 cents first of i had antidotes on me so i could have possibly cured that poison also im a blm i dont need a weapon to cast do i? (sure the spells would be weaker but nonetheless effective for exsample sleep or freeze)

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In that case, I'll pull the ol "Why can't we use a Phoenix Down on Areith?" card.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

This entire collection of scenes reminds me of when the Waking Sands gets attacked and afterwards how the player character slowly rebuilds the Scions with Alphinaud and Cid. Same kind of feeling. I guess this time it will just be in Ishgard instead.

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Big difference, though: We weren't there for that.

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Originally Posted by Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn

It's not bad to have a problem with that, really. And I understand it unless you consider the following:

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All fair points. re: FTBs - My point was just that the "fade to black" isn't entirely a blank slate. It does imply certain things, especially if there aren't any cues to counter said default implications.

I'm not entirely sure they couldn't have given us some sort of 'fight and be forced to retreat' kind of deal for the Raubahn scene, though.

But I'll add once again. Overall I actually liked the story and cutscenes. It's fun to discuss and provide feedback, but don't take anything I'm saying to mean 'I HATE 2.55 MAIN STORY!'

I think, ultimately, most of our problems/criticisms come back to that age old problem in RPG gaming... we want to have more control over our actions. Agency, as it were. The technology isn't here yet and may not be for a long time, but there are tricks that can be used to give the illusion and make some things a bit more palatable.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

blah

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I think that might stem more from JRPGs than WRPGs, but that's just me guessing. JRPGs, well a lot of them, push the story onto you and you don't have any choice other than following it. You could call them glorified books.

I hate the main scenario quests here. Always have, and probably always will. Almost everytime more main scenario is added I cry on the inside and drag my feet to the quest. HATE doing. HATE IT HATE. HATE. >.< I find most of the dialog to be extremely wordy, so much so that I fall asleep if I ever try to sit through a scene. Although I love almost everything else in this game.

And I hate almost everything in SWTOR, but I love their "main scenario" quests. I've been playing it again, just to level characters. One of the reasons I like it is, of course, because your character has a personalty. You can choose good, neutral or bad. As a imperial player most of the dialog options are witty, to the point, and humorous.

I understand the reason SE makes our characters passive. I just don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Velia

Okay. Great. Nice plot device. So when are we going to do that?

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3.x.
It was obvious since the Guardian of the Lake cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Velia

5 guards plus a non-combatant = endless flow? Club them over the head and get away!

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You don't even know how many guards were out of the room, nor if "Smirking Dummy" himfelf didn't come to get you once you're tied. Also, if you are innocent, then why should you run away, hitting guards in the face?... and again, YOU WERE WEAPONLESS AND YOUR POWERS ARE SEALED. Damnit. You're a Hero, not a Super Hero.

Besides, You are also ignoring my whole point about being the best political move to avoid putting the Scions in a delicate position.
The Warrior of Light attacking one of the most influent monetarist leader would be completly stupid.

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Originally Posted by Velia

Teledi is openly corrupt and hostile. It's obvious things are as bad as they'll get and once again, Thancred does exactly that by attacking the guards.

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Thancred is a former thug/assassin, he knows his sh*t and that things going down. Also, you are not playing Thancred. He can do what he wants.

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Originally Posted by Velia

He knew enough to not walk alone into an obvious trap.

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- "XXX wants to tell you something important."
- "Oh my! In the middle of the Ul'dah most guarded place, surely a coup d'etat is going on and this is an obvious trap!"

Come on...

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Originally Posted by Velia

But Raubahn is the only one who acts by removing Teledji, clearly guilty of treason and regicide from the picture and moving on to handle the other traitors. He would've succeeded with support, instead Senna and Merlwyb flee and the Scions freeze up.

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The Warrior of Light and the Scions are not really well known for going in rampage mode to do justice themselves in a city they have nothing to do with.
But yeah, you might be right, killing one of the monetarists leader who is accusing you of doing a coup d'etat is the best way to deal with the accusation and make you look innocent.

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Originally Posted by Velia

You're kidding right? The dummy took Raubahn by surprise, because he was his best friend, and even with one arm he matched Ilberd blow for blow.

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I think we didn't see the same cutscene. Even if Raubahn was doing a rampage, he got his ass kicked.
I mean, they even managed to get him alive and put him in jail.

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Originally Posted by Velia

So? Minfilia can hide while the WoL, Raubahn, and several accomplished mages and fighters go to town. Ilberd would've been easily dispatched 2 v 1 and the rest could've escaped WITH Raubahn and be in a far better position. You are pumping up Ilberd, a man who couldn't defeat a 1 armed man he just betrayed in anything resembling a short time a massive amount to prove your paper thin point.

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Yes, killing the whole Ul'dah's guard was clearly the best move the Scions could have done to prove their innocence.

Murdering everyone doesn't solve everything.

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Originally Posted by Velia

Pay attention. The guy from the player intro takes you to the Shroud border where Cid picks you up.

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https://youtu.be/fkGj8G0ZU-Q?t=3m37s
Sure that looks like a forest to me. Even the "Central Thanalan" shows how deep in the shroud we are.

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Originally Posted by Velia

You really think an army from a foreign nation can openly search a sovereign territory? Also, open war with two or potentially 3 other city-states? You think the monetarists are that stupid?

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If you taking position by hiding the murderers of the leaders of Ul'dah, then yes, you expose yourself to be treated as enemies of Ul'dah. Since all nation as a lot of stuff to deal with (primals, imperials...) I don't really think they can afford to do that.
So yeah, if Gridana or Limsa would openly hide the suspects, the Monetarists would very likely declare war.

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Originally Posted by Velia

She also LOOKS LIKE A DRAGON. During a dragon invasion. Derp.

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With wings and stuff? I though she was more humanoid that anything, but okay. What you said.

I did have separate responses initially ready for the two who responded, but instead, I'm just going to sit over here sipping my lemonade because quite frankly, I only see this thread going up in flames. No... actually, it already has.

I'll just wait for the inevitable thread lock/deletion. And be reminded as to why I typically avoid posting on official forums because of crap like this. Seriously, stuff like this is why I prefer to just simply play the game instead of trying to discuss anything with people. The drastic different viewpoints and caustic nature of humanity just makes me weep for humanity in general.

When the hell are people finally going to start respecting each other?

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

*snip*

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Do I seriously need to do this with every post? Starting to get annoying with it's restrictions...

I'll leave the FTB alone at this point, because I get the feeling we're just going to go in a circle here.

I will admit to sort of wanting a brawl in Ul'dah instanced fight near the end to bring it all together. Wherein the WoL's echo plays the part of where we try to step in and get absolutely stomped as we try to assist Scions. And then we get to play it off as 'Well, probably shouldn't do that this time' sort of deal. But I think they wanted to make those final cutscenes just something you can pop some pop corn, sit back, and enjoy.

But then I sort of think out of respect the WoL trusted Nanamo's people with his gear as a show of good faith and Alphinaud managed to reprocure it, so it's also entirely a case with at least my toon that he was like 'okay, so kinda outnumbered and I'm not much of a pugilist... let's just kinda see where this goes and hope something comes up.'

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Originally Posted by Velia

You know the worst part? Alphinaud says right at the end that you can likely go back to Ul'dah because nobody believes you're guilty and nobody will support any action against you.
So this exile is entirely unnecessary because it's canon that Ul'dah is too lazy and lacks any backing to go after you.

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I find it terribly amusing that I can waltz into the Flames' headquarters and play Triple Triad with Swift. xD

I felt like the exile to Coerthas was sort of shoehorned in as a segue into Heavensward. I dunno. I really disliked how passive the player character was through the whole thing, though. I'd have welcomed even a plot battle. I guess it makes sense that we couldn't reasonably fight back since we wouldn't be allowed to carry a weapon into a private audience with the Sultana though, even being the Warrior of Light. As mentioned by a previous poster, if they'd just done a short cutscene calling attention to that fact (as well as when we get our weapon back) it would've made a lot more sense.

I agree with everything the OP said about PC not so sure about the rest. Here's what I think. SE is completely aware of how wuss of a man/woman our characters are. Remember when you had to fetch that flower? Even Rowena said something like "They're sending you to the markets now?" can't remember exactly what she said. Also
I was actually surprised to see

PC stand up when Nanamo was poisoned. I expected him to just sit there doing nothing. Or what he usually does. Just nod.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Remember, you lost your "Warrior of Light" powers when you fought Midgardsormr, and you also have no weapon when you are with the sultana.

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I dont know how its called in the english version, but midgardsormr didnt took the power to fight... Also where was our weapon then? we were captured and suddenly we have it after escaping?

And about this war stuff... its a REVOLUTION... so no state would have to fear a war if they interrupt, especially not just because of the brass blades and crystal braves, which seem to be the only fighting forces of the circle. Also they could have just captured / killed everyone in the room, and no one outside ever would have really noticed anything, but we just escape, with like only 5 enemy forces in the room, while escaping,a team of 2 people of the scions take on several brass blades..

I liked the scenario itself, but it was doomed to not make perfectly sense, at this point of the game, because the WOL seems to be the only one who can kill the primals, he could have probly solo handed everyone in the room.

Its not a revolution. Its just a power struggle coming to a conclusion - they were already in power anyway, doing whatever they wanted. Now they simply removed those who weren't favorable to their opinions.

I have to agree with OP! The story was fail! It was nice to see a SC so long and full of stuff BUT why they hell nobody believe the ppl who saved the world so often? Why did Limsa and gridania people ran away? (its not spoiler,just my theory,that they might just knew whats going on and get more ppl); then they decide all run to away but every 10 yalm 2 thinks its better to fight (WTF? 1min ago you said its better to run and now you split every 10yalm?) So if all would fought together,they had better chance? They seriously just looked how raubahn got smashed!!!! Why is our Char lvl 50 with all the stuff when we cannot kill stupid guards (which we killed in so many quests already).

Of course what happen is to make ppl hot for heavensward, to find out what happen to other ppl.

And btw: I went to uldah right after the last CS and no guard cared about me? So.....good job to make a story which not really fits

Honestly I loved the story.

I really think this is just a JRPG vs WRPG issue people are having. I've played tons of JRPGs, shouted at how stupid my main character can be, groaned when something predictable happened....but then again, I also play a lot of visual novels, which are just glorified electronic books. So the passivity doesn't bother me at all.

Also, still having access to Ul'dah: I remember when Ragnarok Online razed Morroc to the ground and you could no longer access the city and anything in it. It made me soooo so angry. So I'm glad I can still do things in Ul'dah, especially until they can figure out the guilds, sidequest locations, etc.... best to have access to it. Especially in an MMO. Single player, they would've blown the city up.
Otherwise, how would this go:
Newbie: Hi, can you help me?
Veteran: Sure, where are you:
Newbie: Ul'dah :D
Veteran: Oh, sorry... I can't go there.
Newbie: Why?
Veteran: You'll find out ;)

Hahaha no.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Remember, you lost your "Warrior of Light" powers when you fought Midgardsormr, and you also have no weapon when you are with the sultana. The fight on the Steps of Faith was mostly done with cannons and dragonkillers.

It may be a plot device, making it so you can't retaliate, but its within the lore of the story up to this point.

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Also technicalities.

One does not simply lose a tie to Hydaelyn. Your probably forgetting that the Midgardsormr is a guardian of Hydaelyn as well.
That said its not exactly like you need godly powers to fight off some guards.

Especially after the story drives home how inexperience these Crystal Braves are, since you need to help them out at every turn.


Besides, I remember a certain Ascian also laughing at the lack of the Blessing of Light. Well the last laugh wasnt on him that day.

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Originally Posted by Kalandros

Its not a revolution. Its just a power struggle coming to a conclusion - they were already in power anyway, doing whatever they wanted. Now they simply removed those who weren't favorable to their opinions.

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http://i.imgur.com/erdduka.png

Totally agree with the OP
It's a real fail, but not only for 2.55, but for all the 2.5 cutscenes, our character is completely passive/weak/useless.

Anyway, I found a solution : Skip cutscenes.

Everything said about 2.55 could be said about the rest of the story.

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Originally Posted by MacHorz

I have to agree with OP! The story was fail! It was nice to see a SC so long and full of stuff BUT why they hell nobody believe the ppl who saved the world so often? Why did Limsa and gridania people ran away? (its not spoiler,just my theory,that they might just knew whats going on and get more ppl); then they decide all run to away but every 10 yalm 2 thinks its better to fight (WTF? 1min ago you said its better to run and now you split every 10yalm?) So if all would fought together,they had better chance? They seriously just looked how raubahn got smashed!!!! Why is our Char lvl 50 with all the stuff when we cannot kill stupid guards (which we killed in so many quests already).

Of course what happen is to make ppl hot for heavensward, to find out what happen to other ppl.

And btw: I went to uldah right after the last CS and no guard cared about me? So.....good job to make a story which not really fits

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They have to worry about their own nations first and safety, involving themselves in matters of another country in such a way would of put themselves and their civiliansin danger. Consider this, you see a member of the Crystal Brave on the side of the ones who are most likely involved in the murder of the Sultana. What do you think, for your nation. "Oh no there are Crystal brave stationed within our borders we must do what we can to remove them without causing to much disruption."

Now think about the pockets of the Syndicate, one of the nation leaders decides to fight back or kill one, they get accused of murder of a war crime and then they could easily put a bounty on their head that any UL'dah refuge would gladly aim for in an attempts to pull out of poverty. It would be easy for Lolorito to put 1billion 3 billion 500 Billion gil for the head of Merlwyb or Kan-E-Senna and by doing that not only would he cause refugees from Ul'dah to aim for them but also targets within their own nations. They would become enemies and Civil war would arise within their own countries as well as an uprising occurring within the borders to claim the bounty on their heads.

/10charlimit

Having a system like Bioware for storyline progression is patented and it is very complicated to do, double amount of works.

Maybe a soft option during the conversation just to make your character shows different emotions or responses but the story is still progress the same.

All I wanted was to punch someone in the face or kick that pillar myself saying up yours >.>

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Honestly I loved the story.

I really think this is just a JRPG vs WRPG issue people are having. I've played tons of JRPGs, shouted at how stupid my main character can be, groaned when something predictable happened....but then again, I also play a lot of visual novels, which are just glorified electronic books. So the passivity doesn't bother me at all.

Also, still having access to Ul'dah: I remember when Ragnarok Online razed Morroc to the ground and you could no longer access the city and anything in it. It made me soooo so angry. So I'm glad I can still do things in Ul'dah, especially until they can figure out the guilds, sidequest locations, etc.... best to have access to it. Especially in an MMO. Single player, they would've blown the city up.
Otherwise, how would this go:
Newbie: Hi, can you help me?
Veteran: Sure, where are you:
Newbie: Ul'dah :D
Veteran: Oh, sorry... I can't go there.
Newbie: Why?
Veteran: You'll find out ;)

Hahaha no.

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Yeah uhm, no. I've played a ton of japanese games myself. And while protagonists are often stupid, theres also plenty of average, smart, or even genius protagonists.

As far as choices go, most novels have many choices. Some even have over a hundred choices with most of them leading to bad ends, heh. Atleast in the ones with a dumb hero you atleast see that he/she has a personality (however flawed it may be). They dont literally sit there for the whole of 3 seconds just staring at someone dying in front of them.

Sometimes tho, theres really just one choice for a character to make regardless of your choices up untill that point.
Good writers realise that:

http://i.imgur.com/8gt2nq8.jpg

Not being able to access Ul'dah would be a good thing. Its not like I want to visit that place any time soon anyway. (unless it is to burn it to the ground)

Here is why you can enter Ul'dah without anything happen, yada yada yada...

Its an MMO. There are still some restraints to that. They can't just lock you out of cities for three months until the expansion, with the easter event coming up and maybe other little things. To prevent people from doing that wouldn't be fair and not to mention the amount of work and programming it'd take to re-direct EVERYTHING out of Ul'dah or even out of the cities to treat you like a fugitive.

It took them a year to make one class, alone. Even more for three for the expansion. Imagine the amount of time and effort it'd take to re-program everything to re-direct stuff.

only story character i cant stand actually is Alphinaud figured if yoshi decided to kill anymore off then i hoped n prayed it was gonna be him lol

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Originally Posted by Reokudo

Technicalities. Your character is a soulless puppet because giving your character a personality would remove the feeling that its you. Imagine they made your character an overly aggressive moron who gets blown up all the time. You'd sit there like "That's not what I'd do!" SE can only do so much.

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Though in all the FF games save for FF1, all the characters have a personality. In FFXIV (and I assume FFXI) because it's a MMORPG, you aren't playing a single character, nor everyone in the party (as in all single player FF games.) If FFXIV were a single player game, your companions are all the Scions.

Thancred, Yda, Papalymo, Y'shtola and Urianger would be your "party" , but they are only really used in cutscenes. 90% of your interactions in the game that move the story along involve Minfilia (Up to level 50), or Alphinaud (All post level 50 content save for the Raid's.) I'm not sure if this is because Yoshi-P wants to "kill off" the V1.0 cast or just take them out of the storyline long enough to setup V3.0, and they all eventually show back up.

If Nanamo is permanently gone, then I expect the same of Kan-E-Senna and Merlwyb at some point as well. It would likely mess up the game balance for new players if they pick a Grand Company/Starting City based on spoilers about who is alive at the end. It's far more likely that Nanamo comes back otherwise completing the remaining crafting jobs (of which Culinarian and Goldsmith both involve making something for "the Sultana") might result in some broken storyline plot points.

If FFXIV were a Single Player game, then having the companions and the leaders of the cities "supposedly die", would be pulling the Louisoix V1.0 deus-ex-machina again, and they would just appear later (Both FF4 and FF6 pulled this before.) So you'd effectively start "Chapter 3" with nobody again, like at the beginning of the game, and have to (optionally) find everyone again.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

words darn you char limit

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I meant more along the lines of "the protagonist is you" -type silent characters in JRPGs, not named protagonists with actual backstories and the like.

And really, while -I- personally don't care much about Ul'dah, the fact is that it's an MMO. If they were going to cause a game-wide lockdown of the city to player characters, they absolutely have to move the necessary things first (at the very least, the DoW and DoM guilds).. The best place for them to do that would be at the beginning of an expansion....so I don't see it completely off the table for Heavensward, at least.

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Originally Posted by Addicted

Another thing that I found very odd was our pick of exile to Ishgard. Why Ishgard?

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A couple of simple reasons, one of which Haurchefant states himself. First of all, as he says, Ishgard has a reputation for being hostile to outsiders. If anyone were to come looking for you, it wouldn't be seen as odd for them to tell whoever is searching to get lost (which he says he's going to do). Technically, Ishgard hasn't rejoined the Alliance just yet, so they don't have to answer to the other city-states in anything. It won't cause a political uproar if they tell someone from one of the other city-states to piss off.

Second, you just helped Ishgard out in a major way by dealing with Vishap. It's in their best interest to want to keep you around so you can help them out again if necessary

And perhaps most importantly, Haurchefant has always been one of your staunchest allies, going back to the 2.0 Main Scenario Quests. He was the only one in Coerthas willing you help you find that airship, even if it meant risking his own reputation to do so. Later on, he's the one sending supplies to Mor Dhona, which angers the higher-ups in Ishgard (see: the meeting with Aymeric in 2.4). He got so upset when you went to face Shiva by yourself that his men had to physically restrain him to keep him from going after you. Now that you're on the run, he makes it very clear that he will do everything in his power to protect you and help you out, not just as an ally, but as a friend. He has a personal investment in wanting to make sure nothing happens to you.