Instead of gear loss how about a less harsh outcome?

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Originally Posted by Madruk

You missed the point entirely. If you want a materia you have to wear the piece in order to accumulate points to convert it. No one is going to convert their Dodore Doublets or +3 HQ gear, so what are you going to wear to create a materia? Something less valuable. What does this mean? You're going to be wearing suboptimal equipment while sping because no one is going to want to miss out on materia spiritbond points.

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So you use the NQ instead of HQ for battlegear to make into materia for your HQ. Hardly 'suboptimal' just because it's not zomg HQ. As for crafting, what does it matter to you what other people are crafting or gathering in? That has, quite literally, no effect on you.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Fishing while wearing battle gear here I come!

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You could also do the non-retarded thing and form PTs just for getting attachment points. Or you can keep coming up with absurd reasons that you can't defend. That's always an option too.

If you're so afraid of the system, don't go any more than one materia, or just buy higher grade gear from someone with the time and commitment you don't have. Some people want a high risk system that requires a lot of work with valid rewards, don't demonize it just because you wouldn't use it.

Lets see how it plays out in the context of FFXIV before we start ripping it apart.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Bullsh**, I can guarantee that someone is going to convert their +3 HQ gear or other rare gear, especially the hardcores. Even then they're getting rid of the +1, +2, +3 system and moving to an easier HQ only system, so more people will be willing to convert their HQs.

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Why would they do that? It's already been stated there will be no difference between converting NQ and HQ gear.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Why would they do that? It's already been stated there will be no difference between converting NQ and HQ gear.

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Where was that stated?

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Fishing while wearing battle gear here I come!

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or crafting, or any gathering, or farming lower level mobs for drops to sell for cash or materials
plenty of options

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Why would they do that? It's already been stated there will be no difference between converting NQ and HQ gear.

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that hasnt been stated
but even it it has

you know a rumor will get started, and someone will make up a ton of fake info that hes gathered through trial and error convincing a ton of people that it does make a difference

and then some guy will go out and do it based on that

it ALWAYS happens

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Where was that stated?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...948#post308948

3. Materia Craft and HQ
When turning weapons/armor into materia, it will not matter if the weapon/armor is HQ or not. Similarly, when adding materia to weapons/armor, it will not matter whether the weapon/armor is HQ or not. (NQ items will be useful when mass producing materia.)

That was from a Yoshi post a few days ago.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

You could also do the non-retarded thing and form PTs just for getting attachment points. Or you can keep coming up with absurd reasons that you can't defend. That's always an option too.

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Herp-derp...point was you could do all of those things in gear you wouldn't normally be using. You can keep those points flying way over your head while you're at it.

This really depends on how long it takes to actually convert an item to materia. If it doesn't take that long it won't matter much.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...948#post308948

3. Materia Craft and HQ
When turning weapons/armor into materia, it will not matter if the weapon/armor is HQ or not. Similarly, when adding materia to weapons/armor, it will not matter whether the weapon/armor is HQ or not. (NQ items will be useful when mass producing materia.)

That was from a Yoshi post a few days ago.

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I think you misunderstood his post. He's saying that a NQ item and HQ item can turn into materia, he doesn't state if materia made from a HQ item will be lower, the same, or higher than a materia made from a NQ item. So I guess we will have to wait until more info comes out or 1.19, but I really think a HQ will have better attributes.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...948#post308948

3. Materia Craft and HQ
When turning weapons/armor into materia, it will not matter if the weapon/armor is HQ or not. Similarly, when adding materia to weapons/armor, it will not matter whether the weapon/armor is HQ or not. (NQ items will be useful when mass producing materia.)

That was from a Yoshi post a few days ago.



Herp-derp...point was you could do all of those things in gear you wouldn't normally be using. You can keep those points flying way over your head while you're at it.

This really depends on how long it takes to actually convert an item to materia. If it doesn't take that long it won't matter much.

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If someone is wearing less than the best they currently own for their class in an SP PT just to get AP for materia, the PT leader should be kicking them out. That's like the jacktards in XI using XP PTs to skill up their C(-/+) weapon. You tell them either equip their real gear or gtfo. That's not an issue with the materia system, that's a PT leadership issue. What's your next excuse for why the system sucks?

That quote only states that you can convert both NQ and HQ gear.

The quote does not say:

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When turning weapons/armor into materia, it will not matter if the weapon/armor is HQ or not, the same lvl materia will be created.

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Can we test the system first please?

If you want to create materia, then solo leves, solo grind, or make a materia grind party. Wear your NQ gear then. Why would you ever want to convert your HQ gear when it doesn't matter.

I find that most (not all) players complaining about this system are the R45-R50 crafters who rushed into crafting on, what I consider, a beta game. The system is changing and for the better for all aspects of the community and economy. Sorry you are so butthurt.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

If someone is wearing less than the best they currently own for their class in an SP PT just to get AP for materia, the PT leader should be kicking them out. That's like the jacktards in XI using XP PTs to skill up their C(-/+) weapon. You tell them either equip their real gear or gtfo. That's not an issue with the materia system, that's a PT leadership issue. What's your next excuse for why the system sucks?

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You for real? How would a random party leader even know what the best gear you'd have? This isn't FFXI where best in slot gear is easily identifiable. Most gear leveling up you either have the NQ or the +1-3 version. You could have a full +3 set and no one would be the wiser as you happily SP in NQ gear to get materia points.

As Sonic said I'd like to see more information out to clarify some things, but it doesn't hurt pointing out the potential flaws early.

Many people cried this game is too much casual. Now SE make it a bit more hardcore and there is cry again?

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Originally Posted by Felis

Many people cried this game is too much casual. Now SE make it a bit more hardcore and there is cry again?

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There is always be cry.
Always be cry forever.

Something about the idea of failing to attach materia and losing materials rubs me wrong. It just seems like a colossal waste of time that doesn't correspond to anything in the real world.

In the real world craftsmen take their time and plan with care when using expensive materials to create something. Does a jewelry store charge you for 20 diamond rings just to sell you one engagement ring? Does an auto body shop charge you for 20 racing stripes just to put one on your car? Does the computer shop tell you upgrading your RAM has a chance to fail and you will lose all the RAM sticks they use to attempt to upgrade your RAM to 6GB? No, because that would be completely retarded. So if you like this system, you like to be retarded.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

You for real? How would a random party leader even know what the best gear you'd have? This isn't FFXI where best in slot gear is easily identifiable. Most gear leveling up you either have the NQ or the +1-3 version. You could have a full +3 set and no one would be the wiser as you happily SP in NQ gear to get materia points.

As Sonic said I'd like to see more information out to clarify some things, but it doesn't hurt pointing out the potential flaws early.

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Once again, you're using NQ and suboptimal interchangeably. Using NQ gear isn't an issue. Suboptimal, to normal people, means not using rank appropriate gear because you're making a materia with a lower piece to slot into a higher piece to turn that higher piece with slotted materia into yet another, better, materia.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Something about the idea of failing to attach materia and losing materials rubs me wrong. It just seems like a colossal waste of time that doesn't correspond to anything in the real world.

In the real world craftsmen take their time and plan with care when using expensive materials to create something. Does a jewelry store charge you for 20 diamond rings just to sell you one engagement ring? Does an auto body shop charge you for 20 racing stripes just to put one on your car? Does the computer shop tell you upgrading your RAM has a chance to fail and you will lose all the RAM sticks they use to attempt to upgrade your RAM to 6GB? No, because that would be completely retarded. So if you like this system, you like to be retarded.

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You do realize this is a game right? And a fantasy game, at that?

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Something about the idea of failing to attach materia and losing materials rubs me wrong. It just seems like a colossal waste of time that doesn't correspond to anything in the real world.

In the real world craftsmen take their time and plan with care when using expensive materials to create something. Does a jewelry store charge you for 20 diamond rings just to sell you one engagement ring? Does an auto body shop charge you for 20 racing stripes just to put one on your car? Does the computer shop tell you upgrading your RAM has a chance to fail and you will lose all the RAM sticks they use to attempt to upgrade your RAM to 6GB? No, because that would be completely retarded. So if you like this system, you like to be retarded.

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Dude, it's just a game. You can't apply every real life situation to games, if you do that means that every monster in Eorzea should be extinct right now because the players kill the monsters faster than they can procreate. Every mineral node should be depleted because it takes millions of years for new minerals to be created and every tree should be gone because it takes years for trees to fully mature.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

Once again, you're using NQ and suboptimal interchangeably. Using NQ gear isn't an issue. Suboptimal, to normal people, means not using rank appropriate gear because you're making a materia with a lower piece to slot into a higher piece to turn that higher piece with slotted materia into yet another, better, materia.

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Why would they do this? Wasn't it confirmed that a equip with materia get the same materia type like the same equip without materia? That it based only on the equip what a materia you get?

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Originally Posted by Neptune

It just seems like a colossal waste of time that doesn't correspond to anything in the real world.

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Video games!

I don't know. This looks like a lot of unneeded grief between players. If this was something everyone only did themselves, such as Phantasy Star Universe's weapon upgrade system, I'd be fine with it. That way the safety of your gear rests on you and you only. But the fact that only crafters can do this suggest players will go to other players to get materia added to their gear. Yes the crafter can warn the person about the chance of failure, and the person might say it's okay, but once his stuff breaks, all bets are off on how he will handle it.

It's like why most police officers won't help you if you lock your keys in your car. There have been too many instances of: The officer warns the person that they might break the window, the person says that's fine, the officer ends up breaking the window, and the person makes the officer pay for it. Granted you won't be able to make anyone pay for anything in the game. It still causes a lot of tension.

Maybe just lose the materia on the equipment upon failure? That at least seems a little more reasonable. I love risk vs reward systems, but even this rubs me the wrong way. Oh well. We'll see how this ends up.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Why would they do this? Wasn't it confirmed that a equip with materia get the same materia type like the same equip without materia? That it based only on the equip what a materia you get?

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There was something said that materia slotted gear might yield a higher 'grade', if you will, of materia. I'm trying to find it again.

EDIT: linky. Doesn't outright say it will, but it does say you can materialize materia slotted gear as many times as you want. Using the same powers of loldeductivereasoning present in many of the speculation threads hereabouts, it stands to reason that gear with slotted materia would yield better grades of materia.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Video games!

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or wall street
If you success you get a lot of money
if you fail you are ruined

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Originally Posted by Madruk

You missed the point entirely. If you want a materia you have to wear the piece in order to accumulate points to convert it. No one is going to convert their Dodore Doublets or +3 HQ gear, so what are you going to wear to create a materia? Something less valuable. What does this mean? You're going to be wearing suboptimal equipment while sping because no one is going to want to miss out on materia spiritbond points.

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Wait wait, let me see if I understand. People would have a "Materia'd" set, but they'd use crappy gear to turn into materia, during SP parties.

SP party. The ONE time you need to be at your peak?
And you have a set of gear to be at peak condition, but you won't use it when you need to be your best.
What the hell is the gear you are gathering spiritbond in for? To put on more gear you won't use when you need it?
Something in this logic seems slightly flawed.

And if what you mean is that "Full HQ" is proper gear while "Normal Quality" is subpar, Goblin, you just went full Chocobo. You are just full blown elitist and while I respect your decision to be so, I hugely disagree.

You also have a right to kick slackers and gather people of your play-style. It's what guilds/clan/linkshells work towards, joining like-minded individuals. Now don't tell me you just want every player to be on your playstyle, because I got news about the internet...

As for the penalty? I am a bit reluctant on settling on breakin' on just the second materia out of five, but I say I'm down with it, specially with how gear will FLOW now. Probably very minimal chance to break on second materia and such anyways and only real black-cat-gazing, mirror-shattering, stairs-crossing individuals would break with any regularity on second materia. Like myself.

I just don't gamble. So I'll stick to the first materia most of the time. The rest of you can enjoy more if you want.

I vote to keep the gear loss... We definitely needed something that adds a risk factor, something that not everyone will have the day of the patch.

If not that, than something else severe, like maybe a -200k SP loss on your highest crafting class... Something that really really makes people decide NOT to go for that super rare item... Say you get that 3/5 materia HQ weapon that cost you a fortune... Really wanna roll the dice and go for 5/5, and risk losing it?... Many won't, and they won't get the best gear possible because of it... More will try, and fail, and have to start over, and some will settle for less afterwords... And some will bear through it, eat the losses, and keep trying until they get their hands on all their HQ 5/5 gear. Perhaps some is rare/ex, and they had to even lvl crafts to get it.

It's good to have really hard to get stuff like that. But don't worry, just because it exists doesn't mean you have to have it. But I get sick of seeing games that are like reward buttons, where everyone gets everything in a few days no matter what. It's just lame. We need stuff like relic weapons... Sure, I won't even bother going for them, but hey, it's nice to have that sort of thing around for the few who will.

At least imo.

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Originally Posted by Soulfire

You know what I hate to see?

Tears.
People crying over losing something important.
And especially the jerks who say stuff like "Quit your QQing."

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Its not like your weapon is destroyed because you used it too much. You're given a choice, you can either take a chance knowing your actions will potentially destroy your weapon or potentially improve it to a new level, or, if your weapon is important to you and you don't want to risk loosing it, stick to only attaching a single materia to it. Even attaching 2 shouldn't be too difficult, its only if you really want to push for the best of the best that you're going to be going through numerous iterations of weapons. Why shouldn't those who are prepared to go through that risk be granted greater rewards?

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Many others fall into depression and shed actual tears, all so that one guy can have a coveted item and feel accomplished? Feel accomplished because of LUCK?!

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Just like that sense of accomplishment that one guy gets because they got the HNM drop that everyone else wanted.

Honestly, there are only two things I'm not looking forward to with this system. First is how poor I'm going to wind up, and second is the inevitable day where my gear breaks on that fifth materia. :p

That said, though, I agree with the decision. I'll keep selling things to offset the costs, and I'll grumble and move on when my weapon decide to suffer critical existence failure. . .

NVM Misread...ignore my post..lol

Implementation of new punishment after being KO'd. (source)

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Come 1.19, we will be sending each player an electronic device. In order for the FFXIV.exe to run, each player must have this device connected to their computer and the output nodes must be attached to the appropriate locations (please peruse the instruction manual for further details).

Now, in line with all your suggestions, we will be changing the penalty on death. Instead of recieving a loss of 10% in durability, each player will recieve a significant surge of electrical current directly to their brain(s).

Note: Any damage caused while playing FFXIV is a result of each players' own actions, and Square Enix cannot be held responsible for how terrible you are.

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yay something people don't like that SE is adding.. Oh I'm a troll now

Of course eveyrone wants a win/win situation with everything. You can lose at or lose something every so often. It's ok, you'll live

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

yay something people don't like that SE is adding.. Oh I'm a troll now

Of course eveyrone wants a win/win situation with everything. You can lose at or lose something every so often. It's ok, you'll live

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This game is really lacking in high risk high reward systems.
We had the old crafting system, but that's being reworked to be more casual friendly. The addition of this system (I feel) allows both casual and core crafters to be able to enjoy playing the game.
The higher the risks, the higher the rewards.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

That's fine for NQ gear, because if you're using a NQ weapon as your best weapon you could care less about converting it. But later down the road as players reach 50 and focus more on HQ/dungeon gear that becomes more valuable, you won't be using it because you'll want materia. You'll instead be using something of lesser value and effectiveness.

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I hope the people with enough balls to have HQ+3 or Dungeon items with alot of sloted materia are rare. Christ we need something to strive for at 50. What else are you planning to do with your time? Bang your head into the darkhold some more to get gear you allready have?

The slight chance to loose Rare gear is the GOD DAMN POINT of the system. it adds longevity to existing conent. Don't want to risk your shit? Don't try and force-feed your Verdant Horra 5 materia then. This is such a knee jerk reaction from the Min/Maxers who are afraid that it will take alot of effort to hit the cieling again.

Sounds like people who cried in XI when they got all the materials for the Scorpion harness and it exploded in their faces Claw and all. Wether you know it or not you need some actually punishing but rewarding content, the game needs something that is going to suck up elitists time.

People make it sound like they have better things to do with their time once they have hit 50....

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Originally Posted by Jynx

The slight chance to loose Rare gear is the GOD DAMN POINT of the system. it adds longevity to existing conent. Don't want to risk your shit? Don't try and force-feed your Verdant Horra 5 materia then.

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The funny thing is they keep arguing about LUCK, that it isn't fair that LUCK is the deciding factor. I don't see, however, what other thing could possibly be the deciding factor.

Skill? Your skill as a player? What are they gonna do? Drop a mathematical equation and having you solve it on 30 seconds or less, tier 5 being Calculus material? At some point people will complain, that isn't for everyone! You made it impossible for some! Button mashing? Same story, not everyone will achieve it (or absolutely everyone if it isn't hard enough). Some will complain it's impossible for them.

Your skill as a character? Then you have these all too common situations where the "formula", so to speak, is cracked, and then everyone is capable to just get the tried and tested combination for success, then everyone has capped skill-- Again, everyone's special, no one is.

In the end, Luck is the only real equalizer, like it or not, on things like these. Some are just afraid lady luck is not married to them. Afraid to lose and not have complete control of the outcome.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Alot of people are thinking of ways to mix/max without the risk, and thats is where i feel this thread is coming from

it could also be the fact that the OP is very very misinformed

there is 0 risk in losing your gear/materia when you put the first one in

after that, its your CHOICE to take the risk to keep going
you make the CHOICE to risk breaking your gear by putting in materia 2-5
you make the CHOICE to do this and no one is forcing you to do so


so if you dont wanna lose your hard earned gear...dont try to slot it 2+ times!

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i no what the system is do not explain it i can read.

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Originally Posted by DNO

i no what the system is do not explain it i can read.

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apperently you dont if you actualy responded to me with that line...

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Originally Posted by Lionix

In the end, Luck is the only real equalizer, like it or not, on things like these. Some are just afraid lady luck is not married to them. Afraid to lose and not have complete control of the outcome.

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Yes, some things just have to come down to blind luck. Sure there will be methods of turning the odds in your favor but at the end of the day nothing will be 100%. Christ I'm amazed people aren't complaining that in combat they have a chance to miss...

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

apperently you dont if you actualy responded to me with that line...

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first off you can not read. i am of course talking about losing gear. so the first slot is not what anybody here is talking about. apperently YOU have no clue what you are responding to as always you talk/post but do not read.
your a troll please leave thread. thanks

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Yes, some things just have to come down to blind luck. Sure there will be methods of turning the odds in your favor but at the end of the day nothing will be 100%. Christ I'm amazed people aren't complaining that in combat they have a chance to miss...

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but in combat do you have a chance to lose all your gear you have? nope. stop trolling stay on topic.

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Originally Posted by DNO

but in combat do you have a chance to lose all your gear you have? nope. stop trolling stay on topic.

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You have the chance to miss out on time you could be making SP, durabillity, spirit bond points, SP from lev bonuses. You can loose quite a bit from being killed.

Also your not loosing "All" your gear your risking loosing a single peice of gear for the chances of getting a better peice of gear. I don't see how this is different than risking your time for chance at a peice of loot from the darkhold or fighting a NM. You want a riskless get out of pain free way to upgrade your gear.

Not everyone thinks that way, so quit your bitching and realize that this is part of the topic.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

You have the chance to miss out on time you could be making SP, durabillity, spirit bond points, SP from lev bonuses. You can loose quite a bit from being killed.

Also your not loosing "All" your gear your risking loosing a single peice of gear for the chances of getting a better peice of gear. I don't see how this is different than risking your time for chance at a peice of loot from the darkhold or fighting a NM. You want a riskless get out of pain free way to upgrade your gear.

Not everyone thinks that way, so quit your bitching and realize that this is part of the topic.

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what??

your post made zero sense but thats ok i will end it now. stay on topic.

At first i was kind of against this idea but the more i sit down and think rationally about it, the more i think actually maybe its kinda fair.

The way im seeing it is that not everyone is going to have this super awesome high endgame gear for whatever reasons. High end gear is high end for a reason, the stats are vastly superior to anything people can craft or buy on average. This materia system just makes it so that people who can't get that stuff can make something reasonably similar with a bit of effort and risk. I dont think people are meant to be enhancing the superior, hard to acquire items. If they do, and succeed then more power to them, but i think this might be a way of making normal gear a bit more special.

I dont think materia is going to be overpowered enough to bring it on par with the rarer stuff we see in the game, but maybe it can get you close if you are prepared to take that risk, and if it breaks, well its just normal gear so theres no need to search for that gun closet key. The difficult thing is that in an MMO there is a large mentality of having the BEST of everything, we all want it, we're expected to have it, we're sometimes looked down on if we dont. Perhaps we should accept that this isnt a system for maxing us to the best we can be (although it has that potential), but a system that less fortunate or simply more average players can take advantage of. Maybe the term 'average' is still frowned upon, i dont know, but im not looking at this system as something we have to do on every piece of gear we ever get.

Of course all this is theorycraft and dependant on materia not being relatively excluisive to people with a set of rank 50 fighting/crafting/gathering classes. I think if i had to go through 40 levels of getting nothing but 'fire resistance +1' materia then i would accept that it really is just a system aimed at level cap players. I'm gonna have to see it for myself first.