Warrior Parry - yay or nay.

@SpookyGhost I agree with most of what you say, i just think that while learning a fight tanks should not be too concerned about there dps until the entire party has the mechanics down, at which point unless the group is under geared or the dps are slacking you should be clearing it. I guess the point I was trying to make was by the time det and crit become more useful to a tank than parry you'll more than likely have the fight down anyway.

To be fair though my group did decide to try and push four bennu in turn 12 when we were still trying to clear it to make the fight alot easier and we did everything we could to maximise our dps. Crit and det would have been more useful at the time sure, but even then I imagine it would have been insignificant next to the other changes we made. And we only made those changes after we were comfortable with the mechanics of the first 2 phases, had I gone full dps build from the start it would have likely led to alot of unnecessary wipes.

To me anyone who says you should prioritise dps as a tank to anyone who is new to an encounter is giving out bad advice.

I feel like I've gone off track a little bit here, while I gave an example of where I think parry is slightly better I still wouldn't recommend it. At the end of the day I agree with you that secondary stats for the most part are just not worth being concerned about for most ppl.

I agree with Gaza.

People who need to min/max all the info is out there, det/crit all the way.

Everyone else, just get the best gear you can, and don't stack parry/ss. It's better to have a mix of stats.

End thread

Bottom line the more str the more midigated with parry.

Nay on parry stacking.

Yay On Parry Stacking \o/

what? o-o

Nay on parry for tanks. Strength builds have many perks and doesn't really change the way you play at all. I switched to strength and set build while we were working on t10 and it didn't change anything negatively to drop the parry but my DPS and aggro improved greatly.

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Originally Posted by matt8107t

Nay on parry for tanks. Strength builds have many perks and doesn't really change the way you play at all. I switched to strength and set build while we were working on t10 and it didn't change anything negatively to drop the parry but my DPS and aggro improved greatly.

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An lemme guess u mitigated more when you parried!
Full vit parry 600+ 24-27%mitigated
Full Str Crit an SS for 9zerk 30%+ mitigated plus blood bath and second wind have greater returns.

Ps this is for Warrior's who love there class an kno the in's an outs.
Just starting out more vit accessories with any stat other then parry.

Pss do the true paladins say nay to Parry cuz it not my class but they got block that is reliable.

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Originally Posted by Janembo

Pss do the true paladins say nay to Parry cuz it not my class but they got block that is reliable.

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Block is a big reason why parry is a bad stat for PLDs, too. But yeah, STR definitely has greater returns for WAR self-healing. I've had Second Winds that crit up to 1.8k, average around 1.7k Inner Beast crits, and man is it ever fun to see those big numbers! Although, this is usually with full STR accessories and a build optimized around dealing high damage while still being tough despite lower HP and parry.

My old tank swore by parry and stacked it. He quit and I took a war tank with less hp who swore by his dps build; he was just as easy to heal. Our new war was our MT for all SCoB, did more dps and had less threat issues using the same rotation as our previous tank.

Parry is indeed useless, even in progression, and once your reach a certain threshold VIT is too.

I main pld and still believe in all str det builds. With enough str once you out gear content you can tank in sword oath and use CDs to mitigate and still have aggro.

That's WARs huge advantage. They can build hate during their opener with Unchained and lose next to no DPS.

PLDs are stuck in shield oath for at least one combo to establish hate then its back to sword oath. (depending on the fight)


Parry is terrible and always will be. The base amount is plenty for every encounter in the game.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

That's WARs huge advantage. They can build hate during their opener with Unchained and lose next to no DPS.

PLDs are stuck in shield oath for at least one combo to establish hate then its back to sword oath. (depending on the fight)


Parry is terrible and always will be. The base amount is plenty for every encounter in the game.

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Not sure where you're coming from with PLD having to start in Shield, our PLD starts every fight in the game currently in Sword and holds hate. If Quelling is applied, and WAR starts with SE > Fracture > SP, there is nothing to worry about except lucky crit NIN/DRG.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Not sure where you're coming from with PLD having to start in Shield, our PLD starts every fight in the game currently in Sword and holds hate. If Quelling is applied, and WAR starts with SE > Fracture > SP, there is nothing to worry about except lucky crit NIN/DRG.

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pretty much this, PLD can hold hate fine with Sword Oath, besides NIN/DRG if WAR open with Defiance+unchained could pull hate easier than NIN/DRG but you should never open with that as OT in T10 or T11.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Not sure where you're coming from with PLD having to start in Shield, our PLD starts every fight in the game currently in Sword and holds hate. If Quelling is applied, and WAR starts with SE > Fracture > SP, there is nothing to worry about except lucky crit NIN/DRG.

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Static content is different then PUG content.

Static content your WAR should be opening for everything.

"Depending on the fight" was included for a reason.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Static content is different then PUG content.

Static content your WAR should be opening for everything.

"Depending on the fight" was included for a reason.

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Can't agree with WAR opening for everything, especially in FCoB. You can make far better use of Unchained in T10 than blowing it on the pull. T11, WAR shouldn't purposefully keep aggro and Sword Oath opener > SE no aggro opener. T12 you can pull with either even though we prefer PLD to pull so WAR can semi-solo the Bennu and maximize DoTs/Flares/AoEs without needing heals.

We have WAR pull T13 but that's because we skip second Earthshakers and just let WAR blow everything for more healer DPS, something PLD unfortunately can't do without getting into trouble in Sword Oath.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Can't agree with WAR opening for everything, especially in FCoB. You can make far better use of Unchained in T10 than blowing it on the pull. T11, WAR shouldn't purposefully keep aggro and Sword Oath opener > SE no aggro opener. T12 you can pull with either even though we prefer PLD to pull so WAR can semi-solo the Bennu and maximize DoTs/Flares/AoEs without needing heals.

We have WAR pull T13 but that's because we skip second Earthshakers and just let WAR blow everything for more healer DPS, something PLD unfortunately can't do without getting into trouble in Sword Oath.

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I guess its just different strat?

T10 - when would he use Unchained? Our WAR doesn't use it on the first adds and its back up for the 2nd sets adds. (we LB 2nd set 3,4,5,6 adds)
T11 - our WAR opens with unchained and I voke during the first head
T12 - doesn't matter as stated
T13 - our WAR opens blows everything, then I take over (sounds like you do the same)

T10: you use unchained for 1st set of adds and second set, reason little DPS lose and i have everyone kill my adds first so pld can get better hate on other adds with Sword oath
T11: not sure again why would you wanna open with unchained, you could use it around first head and then Drop Defiance , better for max DPS over all "on first phase thats only time im in defiance"

There's no reason not to open with Unchained if you are MTing T10 as it allows you to start with SE and it also makes the best use of Berserk and IR since this is the only point where all your offensive buffs will be up for full duration at the same time. You only save Unchained as OT if you'll need to be actually tanking something before it's back up again - this doesn't apply to MT as... you're tanking it as soon as you press Tomahawk.

Also, in T11, I don't really see the point of SwO PLD, nor do I see the point in not opening with Unchained. If anything, 2x WAR both opening with Unchained is the way to go. If SwO PLD works for you, though, I obviously don't recommend changing it.

T12 and T13 should both be opened with Unchained, MT or OT.

T10 - He doesn't use Defiance on the first set of T10 adds, we kill his first and they melt, he does use vengeance.

T11 - PLD is nice you can HG twice during Heads and you get the awareness buff for the cube. Sword oath PLD and WAR are extremely close in DPS.

T12 - Sleighs point is good if you can skip your BRD from focusing the Bennu at all. Opening with WAR or PLD doesn't matter here though.


Being able to sworth oath tank everything does devalue unchained as a MT DPS tool but its still nice to abuse for the hate spike.

Pretty interesting to read everyones different strats.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Also, in T11, I don't really see the point of SwO PLD, nor do I see the point in not opening with Unchained. If anything, 2x WAR both opening with Unchained is the way to go. If SwO PLD works for you, though, I obviously don't recommend changing it.

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I agree you should open with Unchained, even my group which has more DPS than most, the adds spawn pretty close to the second Unchained coming back up. Most groups would have Unchained up a bit before the second adds even spawn.

Sword PLD + no Defiance WAR works on a lot of levels really for T11 (and T10-13 in general). Sword Oath PLD can use CDs for Resonances and just general healer aid with no DPS loss, does equal to or better DPS than another WAR, and gives RoH debuff which is quite welcome if tanking with two tanks without tank stance, those autos and Resonances are no joke. Plus, Sword Oath PLD is just in general more survivable than no Defiance WAR even disregarding CDs, so it's the better MT for the fight.

WAR WAR, the DPS is gonna be really, really close if not worse, and you'd have one hell of a time doing no tank stances while maintaining good healer DPS since you lose RoH and the main target of those attacks can't block anymore. You'd be living on sparse Foresights and Vengeances here and there with WAR WAR, and if they have to enter Defiance without Unchained it's a for sure DPS loss.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Also, in T11, I don't really see the point of SwO PLD, nor do I see the point in not opening with Unchained. If anything, 2x WAR both opening with Unchained is the way to go. If SwO PLD works for you, though, I obviously don't recommend changing it.

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I Oath Dance during T11 for Nerve Gasses as Kaliya isn't auto-attacking during those times, and you don't need cooldowns for anything else other than giving yourself a buffer to switch back to Shield Oath. I can get 2-3 RoH combos in Sword Oath depending on the cooldowns used (for example: one combo during Nerve Gasses, a second with Sentinel, and up to three with Rampart + Foresight). Figured it out on my own when my static first went into T11, and fleshed it out further to consider future cooldown usage for the add phase. Sword Oath PLD is pretty viable for T11, so I wouldn't count it short.

You all have gotten very off topic of the thread, please start your warrior/paladin opening thread somewhere else, as it has nothing to do with OP.

Sorry moderator MythToken, lets get back on topic.

PARRY'S BAD RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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Originally Posted by MythToken

You all have gotten very off topic of the thread, please start your warrior/paladin opening thread somewhere else, as it has nothing to do with OP.

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Sleigh closed this thread with post number 2.

The discussion in the past dozen post is way more relevant for tanking.

Understandable, just would be hard to find later is all.

Also feel like I have read the same thread about a million times.
Not directed at you Sir Taint, more so towards the people who keep debating what has more or less been proven many times over.

In all honesty it really doesn't matter so if you go for the highest ilvl you will be fine but if you were to build for it others are correct you have a lack of dmg out that while some may mark useless does remove some options. The biggest overall issue besides parry scaling comes from the fact that nothing in warriors skills gain a benefit from it. The only reaction skill War can use is haymaker and even if it was useful unlike shield swipe it breaks your combo. Warriors aren't designed to parry like Paladins are designed to shield block. Its just what it is while it is a latent mitigation if it happens or if it doesn't does not change the party dynamic. Now if there were mechanics that support it you would have more of a leg to stand on but be it just the remnant of 1.15 in the design or prep for a parrying tank the stat tiers do not adjust in a pro for warrior (while it is technically better then pld it still not powerful) in regards to parry.

Parrying for 29-30% on a Revelation is pretty nice though, something to the tune of 3k damage mitigated. So I mean its not like parry is anti useful. It's just not reliable.

The act of parrying is really great.

The stat parry is just kinda bad, because it is a very small increase in chance to parry.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Parrying for 29-30% on a Revelation is pretty nice though, something to the tune of 3k damage mitigated. So I mean its not like parry is anti useful. It's just not reliable.

The act of parrying is really great.

The stat parry is just kinda bad, because it is a very small increase in chance to parry.

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Its just weird when the scholar tells me "You're harder to heal than our previous Warrior" (who stacked parry)

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Originally Posted by Kalandros

Its just weird when the scholar tells me "You're harder to heal than our previous Warrior" (who stacked parry)

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No offense or anything, but that might not have to do with Parry. Or that SCH sucks, which could easily be it too.

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Originally Posted by Kalandros

Its just weird when the scholar tells me "You're harder to heal than our previous Warrior" (who stacked parry)

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Far more likely it's different CD usage if there is an actual, noticeable difference. Not even just Vengeance/IB timings, but Foresight, Convalescence, and Bloodbath can actually be pretty significant and I notice a lot of WARs neglect them as if they're completely useless.

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Originally Posted by Kalandros

Its just weird when the scholar tells me "You're harder to heal than our previous Warrior" (who stacked parry)

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My static's healers told me they noticed zero difference in healing me from a full parry build to a det/crit build.

It could just be different item level or cooldown usage?

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Far more likely it's different CD usage if there is an actual, noticeable difference. Not even just Vengeance/IB timings, but Foresight, Convalescence, and Bloodbath can actually be pretty significant and I notice a lot of WARs neglect them as if they're completely useless.

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Anyone that thinks Convalescence is useless should be slapped upside the head. o.O

Bloodbath can be nice. Foresight isn't much, but it's better than nothing...

Would parry be viable or broken if the amount of damage it mitigated got reflected back to what ever hit you?

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Originally Posted by ShadowYomi

Would parry be viable or broken if the amount of damage it mitigated got reflected back to what ever hit you?

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totally, utterly broken. Though nice :p

Not only broken but nonsense too
If it reflecet a % of parried damage it would be slightly better, but still nonsense

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Originally Posted by ShadowYomi

Would parry be viable or broken if the amount of damage it mitigated got reflected back to what ever hit you?

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It would definitely make Vengeance a lot less unique if you gave it to Paladin.

I could see Warrior getting a skill to do something like this at 60 cap, though.

Yeah I forgot about vengeance and I suppose maybe a flat 5% of what was parried would be more balanced.Or make it a trait or proc that occurs when in defiance at the new level cap.

They would never tie a to damage reflect ability to the damage you take, only to your stats (like vengeance 50 potency) for balance.

But I would love if war got a reflect based on monster damage. Be op as hell. Use no buffs for max damage taken (and returned), pop holmgang. "Oh bahamut? Here, I'll just holmgang and reflect 30k damage ahk morn to finish him off."

Any reflect will be based on out stats or things get stupid very fast.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

They would never tie a to damage reflect ability to the damage you take, only to your stats (like vengeance 50 potency) for balance.

But I would love if war got a reflect based on monster damage. Be op as hell. Use no buffs for max damage taken (and returned), pop holmgang. "Oh bahamut? Here, I'll just holmgang and reflect 30k damage ahk morn to finish him off."

Any reflect will be based on out stats or things get stupid very fast.

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I agree they would more then likely put a fixed reflect.

The other option would be a percent reflect, like 10% of incoming damage is reflected back on the monster. Make it physical attacks only and they can plan around it.

In FFXI the spell reprisal would reflect a % of damage up to a maximum, which would also work. Like 25% damage taken is reflected up to 1000 total damage. So even if you were hit for 8k the reflect would cap at 1000.