Xeno's Warrior Opener Guide *updated 2.5

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirTaint

A good DPS will never pull hate. Any static the WAR should be able to use this opener. Epeen PUG groups are where the issue lies.

---

I just got back into WAR tanking after getting frustrated with dungeon queue times while working on my BLM zodiak. I'm just a lowly i110 VIT WAR (haven't redone my stats yet) with the Diamond Axe, and I've had zero issue grabbing/holding aggro on boss fights against DPS with much higher ilvls / Nexus weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Ive watched alot of your vids and i think you do a great job tanking, but i can tell you this right now, there is no way you would hold aggro from me with that opener. Id have it off of you before you ever got close to your first butchers.

---

Haha Nah man it's Solid. I use this opener 100% of the time and aggro has never been an issue. I group with some of the hardest hitting dps that play this game(from what I have seen anyway) in my sell runs and my main static. I demonstrate it all the time on my Twitch when I stream, and my youtube vids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakmatic

If he can lose hate to a range dps not using Quelling(Which he says happens) then he will lose hate to a good melee with his 115 axe is what im saying.

---

I never said that. I gave examples for reasons it COULD happen. Holding aggro is stupid easy. The burst my main groups dps has is banana sandwich. Just because you have pulled off undergeared or bad tanks does not mean my opener is wrong, it means that particular tank wasnt equipped for it or messed it up.

How much potency would a warrior have generated by the time he finishes his first storm's eye with this opener anyway? How much enmity potency? Maybe it'll help with assuring some non tanks about how 'safe' it is. Like.."unless you generate more than this much potency within x seconds of pull, you won't pull it off me" kinda thing.

Edit: just reread the thread and found someone listing the potency but it wasn't that concise. eh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gardes

How much potency would a warrior have generated by the time he finishes his first storm's eye with this opener anyway? How much enmity potency? Maybe it'll help with assuring some non tanks about how 'safe' it is. Like.."unless you generate more than this much potency within x seconds of pull, you won't pull it off me" kinda thing.

Edit: just reread the thread and found someone listing the potency but it wasn't that concise. eh.

---

Ignoring the potion effects it was 2973 enmity based potency from the opening OP till after you land eye. That includes all b8ffs from maim, zerk, unchain, and activation enmity from buffs. But that is still in tank stats. 100 tank potency is still worth less than 100 dragoon potency because we have to gear more accuracy and inevitably get stuck with some parry and some hybrid accs instead of 100% str accs, but that's not a big deal in the grand scheme. Those are also assuming 0 crits at any point. A dps would need to do close to 3000 potency in 3 gcds to rip hate. And that is with no warm up time. 8th just not really possible.

As I said before, drgs strongest combo is 1000 pot and that's if you let CT 30 sec dot count as instant damage. they have 5 gcds before you land sunder locking it down. HT, ct combo, phleb. That's the drg opener and no number if jumps weaved will get anywhere near the required potency. By the time they are doing their life surged Gull thrust with max buffs you landed butchers 2 gcd ago with your max buffs.

If you are using str or hybrid gear and in the same ballpark of weapon and ilvl, you won't loose threat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Ignoring the potion effects it was 2973 enmity based potency from the opening OP till after you land eye. That includes all b8ffs from maim, zerk, unchain, and activation enmity from buffs. But that is still in tank stats. 100 tank potency is still worth less than 100 dragoon potency because we have to gear more accuracy and inevitably get stuck with some parry and some hybrid accs instead of 100% str accs, but that's not a big deal in the grand scheme. Those are also assuming 0 crits at any point. A dps would need to do close to 3000 potency in 3 gcds to rip hate. And that is with no warm up time. 8th just not really possible.

---

I'm not really saying this is wrong but the potential danger of the opener, is the time from pull to right before SE. It's not really 3000 potency in 3 GCDs they have to do, it's a lot less within 2 GCDs.

I will say if everyone does their part, Quelling on BLM/BRD, I find it's a pretty secure opener if STR specced. Only Sword Oath PLD should take from you but as mentioned they can just do Fracture or Riot Blade to start and there's a lot less danger.

Edited precious post a smidge but here's the important parts.

0 sec (1st strike) OP 900 threat
2.5 sec 1320. Heavy
5.0 sec 1800. Maim
7.5 sec 2973. Eye
10 sec 349. Heavy
12.5 sec 5565. Sunder
15 sec 10887. BB

you strike 1st with 900 enmity pot with unbuffered OP. No one can take that off you in 1 gcd. Impossible. 1320 after heavy, 1800 after maim. That's your mist vulnerable point after op, before eye. You should have 1 gcd advantage over dps because you hit 1st obviously. That's 3 gcds for you, and 2 to 2.5 for everyone else. What can a dps do in the space of 2.5 gcds that pushes 1800 pot? Let's say 1500 after you account for higher acc, parry, and lower str on war fear. Remember this is no warm up.

A mnk can pop PB and land demo and 2 snaps. Not enough by a mile.
Blm, even with timed thunder 3 landing as you pull is just F3, fire 1 and a thunder tick. Nope.
Drg HT, ID, Dis. Nope.
Smn? Lawl.
Bard? Straight shot, 2 dots. Nope.

After this point you have a super buff eye that lands which is enough cement in your zerk ed up unchained state for for 2 more gcds when sunder lands and then nothing can take it from you.

Most tanks loose hate after tomahawk/lob. There's a reason you start with OP. OP is 900 threat(in defiance) before maim and other buffs. Toma is a crappy 585 in defiance. So yeah, Toma to heavy to maim sucks and that's when tanks loose it. OP and str gear is what gives you the wiggle room to pull this off.

Vit hero's with toma/lob are gonna loose hate. More str, more OP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Math.

---

Only job that has a chance to pull hate if this opener is done is ninja. But the ninja would have to open up with DE and some pretty nice Crits.

Regardless, Wars should be opening with OP. If they are struggling maintaining hate with Xeno's opener then just use Unchained before you OP and you are golden.

BRD has 3 ogcd attacks for openers.

BRD and NIN are the most potent with a lucky proc BLM in third.

Quelling strikes fixes BLm and BRD for the good ones.

Planning on trying a strength tank but have a few questions. Will the augmented str accessories and ironworks fendinding be enough without having to use crafted gear? Besides determination should I go crit on relic or will ironworks offer enough accuracy? Final question but what will have the least impact cross skill wise a paladin without stoneskin or a warrior without awareness?

I don't even have Awareness equipped.

I have Flash, Internal Release, Provoke, Convalescence, and Second Wind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowYomi

Planning on trying a strength tank but have a few questions. Will the augmented str accessories and ironworks fendinding be enough without having to use crafted gear? Besides determination should I go crit on relic or will ironworks offer enough accuracy? Final question but what will have the least impact cross skill wise a paladin without stoneskin or a warrior without awareness?

---

I use a mix of i130 str/vit accessories as the budget-hybrid-build. Doing that is certainly "enough". You don't get quite as much str and vit at the same time but it's perfectly adequate.

My relic is det/crit without any lvl4 materia with the rest filled up with acc (19? I forget). Again that's kind of the budget build. I've had extremely poor luck with fcob drops but I manage to meet the accuracy cap without too much worry. Lots of the ironworks stuff has accuracy on it. I do end up with way more parry than I want, though. You might think about putting some skill speed on the relic. I've found it fairly hard to get to the threshold for an extra attack in berzerk with the gear I can get.

FCOB and shiva ex are about the only two places where you want awareness as warrior (or paly for that matter). Tanking the Cube and the auto-crit nerve cloud in t12 and Shiva's bow phase.

I'd actually like to note a flaw in your opener.

Your IR and IB placement make it so IR drops off for IB. Basically, by doing Fracture > 1 > IB instead of Fracture > IB > 1, you trade IB getting 10% extra crit for 1 getting 10% crit. In that light, you'd have to change the IR timing, or, just do this simple modification:

1 > Unchained > Maim > IR + Berserk > SE > 1 > pot > 2 > 3 > Fracture > IB > 1 > Maim > SE

If you swap 1 and ib you use ib during unchained and 1 is used without unchained. No go. You could move ir forward 1 gcd and loose it on the 1st unchained eye but gain it on the zerked ib. That's probably worth doing.

Swapping ib would be bad though with the unchained timing. It's a bridge between unchained and defiance off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

If you swap 1 and ib you use ib during unchained and 1 is used without unchained. No go. You could move ir forward 1 gcd and loose it on the 1st unchained eye but gain it on the zerked ib. That's probably worth doing.

Swapping ib would be bad though with the unchained timing. It's a bridge between unchained and defiance off.

---

That's a good point about Unchained, though it shouldn't be falling off so early. Following that up, I checked when Unchained falls off during the timing suggested in this opener, and it falls off right before the final GCD before Berserk wears off. Thus, I would suggest this opener:

1 > semi-delayed Unchained > Maim > IR + Berserk > SE > 1 > pot > 2 > 3 > Fracture > 1 > Maim > SE (Unchained wears off) > IB

Using IB before the final hit makes you lose Unchained SE. Having a 10% extra crit chance Maim and SE, coupled with a significantly stronger Unchained SE, surely offsets the loss of using IB early (lose 2 stacks long-term, no IR on IB).

Also, if your goal is to get out of Defiance ASAP as OT, you can do 1 > Unchained > Maim > IR + Berserk > SE > 1 > pot > 2 > 3 > Fracture > IB > Defiance off > 1 > Maim > SE and maximize your IR without compromising your stacks + Unchained.

I feel all of these are valid options, I however slightly delay my unchained and zerk. It looks a little like this, this is more of a no SS opener without the 9 hit zerk. HS->Maim->Unchained->SE->zerk->butchers combo x2 -> fracture -> IB. Despite only having an i110 weapon I'm able to keep hate once I secure a Skull Sunder, with some i130 BLMs in my FC it gets a little close around 3 GCDs in but if I can get to SS no one ever gets anywhere close to my threat after that.

With the 9 hit zerk you could just zerk after unchained but before SE.

Doing it this way gets a zerk+unchained fracture off while IBing after unchained falls off but zerk still has 2~ish seconds left. Which is okay because IB receives no benefit from unchained since it already ignored the damage penalty anyways.

Usually as I'm running in I hit internal release and then follow it with an OP instead of a tomahawk.

How about an OT rotation? I've been using this:

Infur > Unchained > Fracture > IR / Pot > HS > Brutal / Zerk > Maim > Eye > HS > Maim > Path > HS > IB > Drop Defiance > Maim > Eye > Fracture | Paci'd

I usually open T13 with that. Fracture gets a full tick while unchained but otherwise unbuffed, then you get a second zerk'ed Fracture to end your opener. Usually I am skimming the PLD's hold on hate until after IB, and I can't parse since I am PS4, but meh. Any serious flaws with that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ehayte

How about an OT rotation? I've been using this:

Infur > Unchained > Fracture > IR / Pot > HS > Brutal / Zerk > Maim > Eye > HS > Maim > Path > HS > IB > Drop Defiance > Maim > Eye > Fracture | Paci'd

I usually open T13 with that. Fracture gets a full tick while unchained but otherwise unbuffed, then you get a second zerk'ed Fracture to end your opener. Usually I am skimming the PLD's hold on hate until after IB, and I can't parse since I am PS4, but meh. Any serious flaws with that?

---

You have ten skills listed after berserk.
If you want to have an inner beast in there, the berserk could come right before the storm's eye and work perfectly.
Definitely a good idea to use inner beast in berserk anytime you can build your wrath stacks without penalty!
Unfortunately our PLD in T13 stoneskins himself and hits like a wet noodle when he is attacking anyways, so I can't open with defiance on, but kudos if you can pull it off!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whiston

You have ten skills listed after berserk.
....

---

Right you are... what I MEANT to post:

Infur > Unchained > Fracture > Brutal > HS > Pot > Maim > IR / Zerk > Eye > HS > Maim > Path > HS > IB > Drop Defiance > Maim > Eye > Fracture | Paci'd

Xenos is still better. Just swap his BB for path combo and it beats your proposed double frac.

Total pot including all buffs except str pot:
Your combo
12 gcds. 4473 pot. Avg pot/gcd 372.77.
Pot affected by IR: 2463. Avg pot gain from IR: 123.(4596.4 total)
Pot effected by xpot: 2653.

xenos with BB swapped to path and IR moved forward 1 gcd to hit IB.
11 gcds. 4289 pot. Avg pot/gcd 389.93
Pot affected by IR: 2453. Avg pot gain from IR: 122.(4411.9 total)
Pot effected by xpot: 3144.7

Basically your combo does more damage but takes an extra gcd to do it. Xenos is only 184 pot behind and the Avg pot of just alternating path/eye (no frac) is 266.7 pot per gcd, so that extra cd you use to get 184 more pot is lost be just doing xenos and using that gcd as normal rotation 266 avg. (It's even higher with frac in the rotation).

This is before we touch the elephant in the room. The str potion. Xenos puts 491 more potency stuffed into the str pot duration. So however much more damage you get from almost 500 pot of a str pot is just extra bonus. It's going to be more than 10% damage. Probably 13 ish or so. So that's a (ballparked) 60 to 79 more pot in xenos favor.

His is just more efficient. That unbuffed, clipped frac doesn't cut it vs better optimized buff usage. And I gave your 1st frac benefit of the doubt and only clipped the last tic. Depending on server time you could loose 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ehayte

How about an OT rotation? I've been using this:

Infur > Unchained > Fracture > IR / Pot > HS > Brutal / Zerk > Maim > Eye > HS > Maim > Path > HS > IB > Drop Defiance > Maim > Eye > Fracture | Paci'd

I usually open T13 with that. Fracture gets a full tick while unchained but otherwise unbuffed, then you get a second zerk'ed Fracture to end your opener. Usually I am skimming the PLD's hold on hate until after IB, and I can't parse since I am PS4, but meh. Any serious flaws with that?

---

Hmm...I've been opening as OT without defiance. Is the IB you get from it also worth the 5 second pacification you get?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gardes

Hmm...I've been opening as OT without defiance. Is the IB you get from it also worth the 5 second pacification you get?

---

The IB is unrelated to the Pacification, or really anything related to Defiance since it comes from Berserk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleigh

The IB is unrelated to the Pacification, or really anything related to Defiance since it comes from Berserk.

---

Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking straight. Just woke up when I posted it lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

xenos with BB swapped to path and IR moved forward 1 gcd to hit IB.
11 gcds. 4289 pot. Avg pot/gcd 389.93
Pot affected by IR: 2453. Avg pot gain from IR: 122.(4411.9 total)
Pot effected by xpot: 3144.7

---

Are you not counting the OP/Toma on pull?
1 - Toma
2 - HS
3 - Maim
4 - SE
5 - HS
6 - SS
7 - BB
8 - Frac
9 - HS
10 - IB
11 - Maim
12 - SE

That's 12... An unchained Toma/OP is not anywhere close to as potent as an unchained Fracture, or am I missing something? I'm not the best theory crafter, but what if I did Fract>Pot/Brutal>HS>Maim>IR/Zerk>Eye?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gardes

Hmm...I've been opening as OT without defiance. Is the IB you get from it also worth the 5 second pacification you get?

---

As stated, it doesn't have anything to do with it, as long as you Unchain right before you fracture you are turning off defiance before Unchained expires, so the IB you get is a free 300 potency attack without losing anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ehayte

Are you not counting the OP/Toma on pull?

---

Sorry didn't think to mention it. Yes, I excluded op/toma since this was for an OT opener, so toma/OP would be bad lol. I'll check your other opener a little later. I actually have work to do at work today lol.

Back in ffxi I'd always do full posts showing my math and junk from my pc, but these days I mostly just poke my spreadsheets then post results via phone at work. So annoying to do math posts on phones :( so I never show much work anymore. Sorry guys

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

I actually have work to do at work today lol

---

That sucks, lol.

But yeah, its not a fair comparison then, as the timeline you give (11GCDs) is the most potent 11 GCDs you can get, while my timeline is extended to 12 GDCs, his should as well with whatever attack would come next in his rotation, which would be a totally unbuffed HS. So when speaking about efficiency, yeah that's the most efficient use of 11 GCDs, but is it detrimental to your 12th, 13th, 20th, 100th GCD to not open with that fracture instead of going straight to HS?

Yes and no about the extra gcd. Sure the next gcd is unbuffed HS so if you draw a line at 12 gcds it's less favorable. But fights go on. At 13 gcds now you are stuck with HS and the other is at maim. With that extra gcd, the other is forever 1 gcd ahead for the rest of the fight so that's why you can just apply the Avg potency of a gcd because it represents that extra gcd ahead for the rest of the encounter, instead of looking at it as just a HS.

It's the same idea applied to holding onto buffs. Every second you sit on a zerk or internal release is 1 second you delay the NEXT use of it, so it's modeled as a dps loss even though sitting on ir for 1 gcd doesn't weaken IR when you do use it, but it's still a dps loss on avg because you delay it. Delaying a gcd is the same way. So any extra gcds you add in your opener need to be avg higher than the avg of the rotation you just delayed.

Edit: the frac thing might work since unbuffed it's jut 300 pot (280 if clipped 1 tic, 260 if clipped 2 tic). Avg eye path frac rotation avg 276 I believe (I'll check later) when you include maim and eye. So you might see a dps fain with an unbuffed frac if you can only clip it 1 tic and get full buffs on the 2nd frac. But if it's clipped 1 tic it would be a whopping 4 pot gain. Prob not worth the tp, but also beneficial in not stealing threat as OT. I'll math it out later when I get a chance, but it's more promising at 1st glance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

but also beneficial in not stealing threat as OT.

---

That's one of the bigger benefits to my opener. Going ham even with OT rots is dangerous. I have taken my fair share of Flame Breathes (even a flatten I had to Holmgang last night) from stealing hate with Unchained/Zerk.

so here is my situation and i hope i can get some help from you guys.
In T13 im losing hate on the 2nd add in 2nd phase everytime and 3rd add as well. I was wandering if you guys could help me out with a rotation that will alow me to keep hate everytime in T13 plus help with the gear im using if you feel it will help. because i will be taking mostly physical damage in this fight i use much parry to help out with that. do you think i should be using mostly all str accesories or no? im thinking of trying to use my coil ring of fending, ironwork ring of slaying, dreadworm bracelet, earing of slaying and choker of fending. keep in mind pls that im broke and dont have enough money to customise my shit like a ballar.

so yeah pls help with a solid rotation for all adds in T13 as an OT. plus any opinion on main gear i should be using. I have my zeta as well.

Adds: assuming you mean the Shadows, HS Bahamut -> SS Shadow -> Brutal Swing/Provoke -> BB. You can also start with BB but it's slightly riskier due to the animation. Brutal Swing and Provoke are preventative measures to get snap aggro as quickly as your GCD allows. Alternatively, as long as TP permits (which it should) you can just OP -> Brutal, then continue with your BB combo. Each Shadow spawns in 60s intervals, so Infuriate will be up for each one. Your Wrath usage will be: Unchained on the first add, IB on the 2nd, Unchained on the 3rd. You should be able to fit in enough GCDs to build 5 Wrath before/slightly after Unchained wears off, which will give you a free IB on Bahamut. Storm's Path obviously takes priority if a non-Hallowed Flatten is coming up, though.

Gear: Parry is actually fairly worthless in this fight as OT and MT. MT gets more out of it b/c of Flatten and it used to be more valuable simply to min/max healer DPS, but at this point with this much free gear it really doesn't have a necessary effect to prioritize it over Crit/Det. You're basically going to be tanking Shadows for all of 10s per (Parry has very little value here due to you having most/all of your CDs up), then you're tanking a bunch during the add phase but again you'll have CDs up for this, especially as WAR since you've got IB to work with. 75% of the fight is just you hitting the boss as a DPS, so damage stats are pretty great here.

In terms of STR vs VIT accessories, it greatly depends on what your healers are comfortable with. If you're still progressing I'd recommend 10k-ish in Defiance as your only real HP check is surviving the Shadow's swipe, Death Sentence (potentially), and Akh Morns. You don't need as much HP as you'd think for that. I'm not actually sure how much SS you have, but if you have >380, I'd recommend changing things around a bit to at least meet that threshold as it's pretty important.

Sorry if I missed anything. Hope that helps!

yeah bro this helps me a lot. the main thing that i was worried about as well is the fact that with our strat we move the boss in the beginning of the fight back to the spot where you are when you first enter the raid. we do this obviously because of the first add and where it spawns. after the first add dies we pull the boss back accross the arena to where the first add spwan'd do that the 2nd and 3rd add are already away from the boss when they spawn. i of cours realize that i could HS, SS boss and then finish combo with BB on incoming add to complete the combo but i have to run accross the arena to grab the add and i dont know how long the combo link lasts before i lose the combo finishing ability if you know what im trying to say.

The combo link lasts a pretty long time, as long as you hit HS during his Giga/RoB cast then you'll have it. DPS-wise, it's better to keep Bahamut where he is initially, then move him to where the next add's going to spawn, then again, then back to the start. This will only cost the PLD a few GCDs, as opposed to the melee who have to go back and forth between the adds and Bahamut (including you). It can and has been done the way you're doing it, so if your group doesn't want to change their strat you'll be fine, but moving the boss that way is something that could help.

Thank you so much Spooky for your time man. I was so nervous about not having parry that i completely changed up a lot of things for T13 but now i feel more confident in going back to my dps accessories. and of course go back to that good old HQ black truffle lol. ill post again if i have any more issues guys. thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

The combo link lasts a pretty long time, as long as you hit HS during his Giga/RoB cast then you'll have it. DPS-wise, it's better to keep Bahamut where he is initially, then move him to where the next add's going to spawn, then again, then back to the start.

---

The melee don't lose any GCDs running back to Bahamut?

We pull him to the start spot and never move him. If you place bahamut all the way at the edge you barely have to move adds 2 and 3. Also at current ilvls your 2 Ranged DPS should be plenty to kill the Shadows allowing both your melee to stay on Bahamut full time. But that can also lead to the 3rd add spawning after or during gigaflare. We are in that weird DPS spot where we just stop DPS waiting for the 3rd add, but during progression it can be a big help.

DRG is the only one missing any GCDs moving just to Bahamut if Spine/Dragonfire aren't up. Oh, and WAR, but that's just unfortunately how things are for tanks. ): When you move Bahamut to the other side at the start, you end up having the melee move to the add, then back to Bahamut - they're only getting one gap closer out of the two times they have to move. Even if you're not having any melee on the adds, it allows them to get a GCD off on the add then use a gap closer to go back to Bahamut, causing the add to die (relatively) faster. If you're using solely ranged to deal with the adds then it doesn't really matter where Bahamut ends up, so pulling him to the other side at the start is fine. That said, learning groups usually don't have the capability of pulling high enough DPS for that, so allowing the melee DPS to get a GCD or 2 off on the Shadows can help a lot. Either way is really fine as long as your group can execute it and you don't run into any DPS problems, though.