Unfun fact: PSN is always down. EVERY. DAMN. DAY.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

When you buy a console, you know that you are going to be bound by that console's rules. The PlayStation, just like the Xbox and the Wii U, requires you to be connected to their specific network. If that network goes down, you don't get to play online. If you don't want to play by those rules, then play on a PC. Whether or not you can afford such a PC is nobody's problem but yours, and nobody, least of all Square Enix, owes you anything.

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thank you Captain Obvious.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

thank you Captain Obvious.

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That's what I'm here for.

http://i.imgur.com/Zfz9oIe.jpg

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Originally Posted by Raist

You can buy a PC/laptop capable of playing this game for less than the cost of a PS4. It runs fine on a system I threw together in 2009...some of which was parts carried over from an older rig that I built in 2006.

You don't need a power-house system to play this game reliably....unless you want to turn on all the eye candy, but even then you can still get by with 2 year old systems. I can play for hours on end with a laptop from 2012 and my framerate stays above 40.

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My PC (was $350 new) is about 2 years old and it barely bench-marked 1800. I'd rather play the game on a PS3 lol.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

My PC (was $350 new) is about 2 years old and it barely bench-marked 1800. I'd rather play the game on a PS3 lol.

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Just because you paid $350 for it, doesn't mean that something that is $400 isn't going to be any better.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/y8WxNG

$412. No having to deal with PSN. Hook it up to your TV with a controller if you want to. And since its a PC, you can use it for anything else you would use a PC for.

I actually already own a PC that could run FFXIV just as well if not better then my PS4. But in my mind PCs are only for casual gaming. Consoles are for real gaming. It's just the way I am. If you feel the other way around then fine. But stop trying to tell people that they should be doing things your way.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

please don't turn this into that kind of argument. that kind of thing annoys me. consoles are always limited, always will be. sure they are more advanced now but look at the technology used. both the PS4 and the XB1 use APUs that by the time the systems were released were already behind last years models.

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I'm not trying to say anything negative about PC gamers. I'm trying to say we all game differently.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

But in my mind PCs are only for casual gaming. Consoles are for real gaming.

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please don't turn this into that kind of argument. that kind of thing annoys me. consoles are always limited, always will be. sure they are more advanced now but look at the technology used. both the PS4 and the XB1 use APUs that by the time the systems were released were already behind last years models.

It's your ISP, dude. You get what you pay for.

So many assumptions in this thread. That we bought our ps4s solo. That we all live in America and pay American prices. That we didn't get a ps4 because of other games too. That we all have physical space for a pc setup.

I already have a laptop for my Internet and everyday needs, not going to waste money on a pc I literally need for nothing except to avoid the occasional psn outage.

The POINT of this thread is that psn downtime shouldn't need to affect ffxiv. Yes, it's Sony's issue. But the game doesn't use Sony's servers. They could just perform authentication once a week or something.

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Originally Posted by KitanaiKoneko

Just because you paid $350 for it, doesn't mean that something that is $400 isn't going to be any better.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/y8WxNG

$412. No having to deal with PSN. Hook it up to your TV with a controller if you want to. And since its a PC, you can use it for anything else you would use a PC for.

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Oh look, another PC suggestion where you have to BUILD it AND buy Windows. So chuck that $412 figure. Only something pre-built is a fair comparison.

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Originally Posted by Kiritto

Its the lizard squad they hacked PSN and Xbox Live

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script kiddies are not hackers and ddos isn't hacking

It was maintenance, PSN is not down every day and has not been attacked by ddos this year yet.
XBox Live on the other hand has been down like 5 times this year already

Unfun fact for the OP. Square can't do anything about this. Go complain to Sony for requiring all apps to sign into psn first.

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Originally Posted by KitanaiKoneko

Solution: switch to PC.

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this is not a solution because many of us prefer to use consoles for the game in tired of this PC master race crap they need to sever this requirement because the info that we all ready own the client or licensing or what ever is all ready on the hard drive of the ps3 4 and we shouldn't need psn limiting us on a game that's purely online based.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Been on all day. And the day before, and the day before....


You see where I'm taking this.

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This is contusive of you never logging off not the issue of psn being down. Sony has actually stated that if your logged into something you should be fine just as long as you don't log out.
I guess some of us just can't live in Eorzea. /shrug

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Originally Posted by seida

The POINT of this thread is that psn downtime shouldn't need to affect ffxiv. Yes, it's Sony's issue. But the game doesn't use Sony's servers. They could just perform authentication once a week or something.

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I though when any thread started off about the PSN being down was just code for a PC PS debate.

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

script kiddies are not hackers and ddos isn't hacking

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. SO MUCH THIS.

I'm so sick of these small minded vandals being credited as hackers. The majority of them are nothing more than script kiddies who couldn't hack their way out of a paper bag with a sharp knife. There are exceptions to that of course, but a DDOS attack is certainly not hacking the target.

One other thing that pisses me off no end when a DDOS attack happens is that some bright spark always chips in (almost always referring to Sony) claiming that a) this is an example of crappy security, and b) incompetence since they do nothing to stop it.

First of all, being a victim of a DDOS attack says nothing about your security since it may in fact be your perimeter that is being flooded with traffic so heavy that it can't respond to legitimate traffic and no amount of security software will prevent that.

Secondly, the attacks are launched from 'botnets with hundreds of thousands of systems all around the 'net, there is no single system generating the attack. If you have millions of incoming data packets that all require a response and they're coming from hundreds of thousands of source addresses, it's not exactly easy to simply turn them off, block them or otherwise ignore them. You can't ignore them precisely because every one of them is potentially a legitimate request to the server. It's not like the data packets for a DDOS attack arrive labeled <#DDOS Attack> or something, all of the traffic in a DDOS attack can look legitimate until it's handled by the targeted server(s).

A DDOS attack would be similar to trying to have a choir standing among a crowd of 100 thousand voices, and every time the choir starts to sing, 1000s of the others standing around them start singing nonsense. The cacophony of additional voices utterly drowns out the choir members. Since not every member of the crowd is singing at once, and not all of them sing at all, how does the choir leader know who to get rid of? Even if they change songs, the crowd can continue disrupting the choir simply by signing nonsense again.

Regarding this PSN outage...

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Originally Posted by Maero

It was maintenance

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Not so sure about that, it was not scheduled, and PSN generally says it's undergoing maintenance when it get's knocked off line by some form of DDOS attack.

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Originally Posted by Maero

PSN is not down every day and has not been attacked by ddos this year yet.

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Yes and no. Yes, PSN is not down every day. No, it appears that PSN may have been subject to a DDOS attack this year. PSN is not a single entity, there are many gateways to PSN. Part of PSN could be down due to a DDOS attack or legitimate but unscheduled maintenance, leaving the rest up. For some users there may be uninterrupted service, while others may be affected.

Too many people cry wolf every time PSN does anything unexpected. However, there is no scheduled maintenance, so it's possible that some form of DDOS attack could be the root cause.

Buy a PC. Profit. Thank me later.

Or just don't be silly, and have both.

#Godrace

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

Oh look, another PC suggestion where you have to BUILD it AND buy Windows. So chuck that $412 figure. Only something pre-built is a fair comparison.

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Ok, we'll add in windows 7 for $100. Then we'll subtract $60 for every year of PS+. It takes 2-3 hours to put together a PC, maybe a little bit more if its your first time.

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Originally Posted by KitanaiKoneko

Ok, we'll add in windows 7 for $100. Then we'll subtract $60 for every year of PS+. It takes 2-3 hours to put together a PC, maybe a little bit more if its your first time.

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You don't need PS+ to play FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Down for me too :/ How annoying. Sometimes I feel like I need to just leave FF signed in all the time so I don't have to deal with this.

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Your hat looks like a baseball :) ...I have nothing more constructive to add to this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

You don't need PS+ to play FFXIV.

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But if you play other games that do require PS+ then you have to include that in the cost of the PS4.

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Originally Posted by KitanaiKoneko

Ok, we'll add in windows 7 for $100. Then we'll subtract $60 for every year of PS+. It takes 2-3 hours to put together a PC, maybe a little bit more if its your first time.

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Can't subtract that PS+ unless you can state that the person will never play a PS4/PS3/PS Vita game online again.

Sure you can put together a semi decent PC to play FFXIV, hell, you could by just about any $400 econo-box, slap in a $100 low end video card (even today's low end cards are more than capable of running FFXIV 3.0) and play. but many people do play games on consoles, and not on PC. I have a laptop that is capable of playing FFXIV, but stick to the PS4 for the larger screen and controller support. Not to mention that the PS4' less powerful hardware (compared to my laptop) runs the game better because my laptop's GPU is a mobile one and can't quite match up to the more dedicated GPU hardware in the PS4's APU.

The biggest problem that PC gaming faces - in my mind - is that compared to consoles, playing games on a PC is a bit more involved since you may need to tune your set up, make sure that your drivers are updated, configure your controller, install software, update it, update windows, etc...

If I compare running games on my PC to running games on my PS3/PS4, the console is simply easier and more relaxed than the PC. And before anyone says anything they'll regret, I have built many PCs, upgraded and repaired PCs both personally and professionally. I've worked with PC hardware since about 1985...yes 1985, not 1995, not 2005...so I think I can honestly claim a wee bit of knowledge. I've played with PCs since they used 8086 CPUs and even the VESA local bus video was yes to be a twinkle in the eye of it's creator, PCI and descrete GPUs were not even on the horizon. Professionally I've worked on PC software/hardware, network infrastructure and every version of Windows (all the way back to Windows NT, Windows 95, Windows for Workgroups, Windows 3, Windows 2, DOS and all the variations). I'm more than happy to work with PCs.

However, I'd still far rather game on a console for a variety of reasons not least of which, it's easier both on me, and on the wallet.

PC Master Race

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Originally Posted by seida

Do people suggest this just to feel superior? Most of us don't have that much spare money just lying around to spend on a pc for the sole purpose of playing FF.

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How much did the PS4 and the TV cost together again. Why do people always skip on the big TV that they own which PC users can also use. Its your own personal fault if you cant plug the PC to the TV, not the format.

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Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack

PC Master Race

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Really? Such a fragile mater race though, they are subject to (just off the top of my head);
eleventy bazillion browser based attack/information theft vulnerabilities
Ransom-ware
Worms
Trojans
Botnet hacks
Viruses
other malware
driver updates with bugs or that simply break Windows/games
and of course the biggest threat to the operation of your PC of all - Windows updates

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Originally Posted by raelgun

How much did the PS4 and the TV cost together again. Why do people always skip on the big TV that they own which PC users can also use. Its your own personal fault if you cant plug the PC to the TV, not the format.

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Lots of people just don't want to deal with the PC hassle. My parents in law could handle operating a PlayStation, but their PC is constantly in need of my attention to remove the crap they have downloaded, and make damned sure that their Windows and anti-virus software is up to date and that their security is properly enabled - you'd be surprised how easily things can mysteriously get turned off...With a PS3/PS4, there is not a hell of a lot they could do that would hurt the system, and installing updates is as complex as saying 'OK'.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

The biggest problem that PC gaming faces - in my mind - is that compared to consoles, playing games on a PC is a bit more involved since you may need to tune your set up, make sure that your drivers are updated, configure your controller, install software, update it, update windows, etc...

on the wallet.

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OK some glaring holes here, pretty much everything on the PC is automated, driver updates, install software has to be done on the PS4 as well dunno why you think this is only a PC thing, you also have to update on the PS4 as well.
Windows update is pretty much automated, it will do it for you when you shut down.

If you own a 360 controller, FF14 picks it up right away with no config other then rebinding keys just like on a PS4.

Tune your set up is only done after reccomended settings have taken affect and is one of the reason why you want a pc in the first place and its a given fact granted.

this quote
'Lots of people just don't want to deal with the PC hassle. '

The reason people must think this, is because they are told from uninformed people that pc is complicated and must be like this and that, and consoles are like this and that, thats fault of people, not the format, you really can just plug in and play with a pc, everything is pretty much automated and does it all for me if I wanted to.

When you add the extras such as a big TV, the price difference becomes meh, however PC users with a powerful system dont help themselves using a TN panel screen instead of IPS.

Basic 22-24 inch TN monitors are hugely cheap, but if you also have a TV which can be used with said PS4, well then its only the unit then.

Hey all the people who consider PCs too complicated, involved or expensive. We're just saying that once you get a PC setup and ready to go, don't browse fishy websites or open weird emails and you'll have a perfectly flawless gaming machine without the overhead that you are getting from these consoles :3

You guys want something easy where all you do is pop in a disc and go? You gotta deal with your overhead from Sony Bureaucrats. I took time to get my PC setup, sure, but now that it's good to go it maintains itself and all I do is chat, write on forums and play games. Drivers update themselves I get told when a new video card driver is ready and just click "Install", you guys really are making PCs a lot more complex than they are lol.

And I never get viruses, worms, trojans. What kind of websites are you visiting? Do you have the proper protection installed on your PC? Seriously lol... that excuse is getting so old now and I'm tired of hearing it. If the only reason you are against PCs is because your computers get overloaded with bad stuff, that's your issue. I have had my PC for 3 years and never had to even reinstall windows once cuz I know how to maintain this thing and know what I should and shouldn't be doing.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

OK some glaring holes here, pretty much everything on the PC is automated, driver updates, install software has to be done on the PS4 as well dunno why you think this is only a PC thing, you also have to update on the PS4 as well.
Windows update is pretty much automated, it will do it for you when you shut down.

If you own a 360 controller, FF14 picks it up right away with no config other then rebinding keys just like on a PS4.

Tune your set up is only done after reccomended settings have taken affect and is one of the reason why you want a pc in the first place and its a given fact granted.

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There are no glaring holes my friend. Everything on a PC is automated right up to the point where something doesn't work as expected, something screws up the registry, or whatever the cause. For someone who knows their stuff a PC is no more complex than a console, both get updates and both use keyboard, mouse, controller. However, as someone who spends about 60 % of their waking/working hours working on a PC in one way or another, I have to say that the console is easier. It just is.

I do have games on my PC as well, I have a foot on both sides of the discussion. I do think that the folks proposing PCs are the 'solution' are ignoring the many small annoyances that make PC gaming just not as easy as console gaming. To you, me and anyone else familiar with PCs, such things go almost un-noticed. But for people not familiar with PCs, they represent problems and obstacles that simply are not there on a console.

You can argue your opinion passionately and accurately, but you're coming from the point of view that "PC is best" for gaming. That's fine, and for you it's the right answer. Just please accept that it's not the right answer for everyone else, and no amount of you saying it's easy, or inexpensive or whatever will change that.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

We're just saying that once you get a PC setup and ready to go, don't browse fishy websites or open weird emails and you'll have a perfectly flawless gaming machine...

You guys want something easy where all you do is pop in a disc and go? You gotta deal with your overhead from Sony Bureaucrats.

And I never get viruses, worms, trojans. What kind of websites are you visiting? Do you have the proper protection installed on your PC?

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Uh-huh, given the amount of malware (including key-loggers) that is pushed out via compromised advertizing on legitimate sites each year, you might want to tone down your superior rhetoric. Oh, and take a look at this article;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...-computer.html

The "overhead from Sony Bureaucrats" means what exactly? Paying for PS Plus? Not being able to hack the console and play pirated software? Seriously, how is paying for a supported network service much different than paying for a VPN proxy, paying the Windows tax (MS) or dealing with the anti-virus software and it's updates. Unless you're referring to some philosophical problem you have with Sony of course.

I dont' experience problems with malware, viruses etc either. My PC sits behind a firewall, has it's own firewall, the browser blocks 99% of all ads (if not more) and blocks javascript from sites not on a whitelist, cookies and other temp files are deleted when the browser exits, etc... it runs up to date anti-virus software. I won't bother to address your implication about browsing habits since there's really nothing to answer.

The point that was being made still stands, PC gaming is not for everyone, and your positive opinion and experience with it does not miraculously make it that way for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

that excuse is getting so old now and I'm tired of hearing it.

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So aren't these hijacked threads.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

However, as someone who spends about 60 % of their waking/working hours working on a PC in one way or another, I have to say that the console is easier. It just is.

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The problem with this statement is, you look for the problems as part of your working hours, as opposed to casually using it in spare time, this is the difference, you will find the same issue with people who have to sort out consoles, they can say the same thing that it is more problematic prone cos their job is to look for it.

Negligence is rarely admitted to but this is the common case, this doesnt mean pc is easier to break, it just means people are more harsh and look after consoles more despite sometimes the budget difference.

All I see is a bunch of PC master race people thinking they are superior, a console life span is what like 10 years? Day 1 you pop in a game and play it no problems, year 8 you can still pop in the latest game and play it no problems. Now you can buy brand new computer today and play all your glorious games at max settings but what about 5, 6, 8 years from now? To continue playing at max settings you most likely have to upgrade your system or buy completely new one. You going to be pouring a lot more money into a PC to play the latest games then you do for a console which is why lot of people prefer it. Also this whole topic is about not being able to get on PSN to play one game FFXIV not other games which I quote from earlier post

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Originally Posted by Lexia

... you saying they should buy a new computer for the sole purpose to play XIV on?

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Negligence is rarely admitted to but this is the common case, this doesnt mean pc is easier to break, it just means people are more harsh and look after consoles more despite sometimes the budget difference.

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A PC is a far more open system compared to a console, there is far more scope for user action to result in problems on a PC than on a console.

This is a pointless argument, for you a PC is the right solution, it's not the right solution for others. If you choose to believe otherwise and that your solution is the 'right' one for all, so be it. No matter the merits of the discussion, you'll stick to that position making further discussion pointless.

Actually us "pc master race" people are offering a valid solution. This isn't SE's problem, it's Sony's bureaucracy being pushed upon you being forced to sign into their network. If you want to use their consoles, you gotta suck it up and deal with their policies. SE has no control over what Sony is enforcing on the Playstation gamers, but if you went the route of a PC, you wouldn't have to put up with Sony's crap anymore.

I'm not interested in debating with people over 'opinions' or overly dramatic statistical data. I'm stating a simple fact. I feel for you guys but this is also why I don't buy Sony products. I know their policies suck, so I don't support them with my money. Keep giving Sony your money and you keep supporting the things you hate. Capitalism 101.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

This is a pointless argument, for you a PC is the right solution, it's not the right solution for others.

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My solution is the one where I can play regardless of a system maintenance unrelated to the game. The existence of this thread suggests to me it's the right solution for more than just myself. Since Sony likely won't lift the requirement to sign into their service first that leaves me with the pc.

PC Master Race.

TDLR: It's not a good solution when people are clearly complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

I don't buy Sony products. I know their policies suck, so I don't support them with my money.

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Show me any corporation offering goods and/or services to consumers who's policies do not in fact suck. Show me a EULA that does not reserve all rights to the corporate behind it and limit almost every right of the consumer. You're being very blinkered in your view if you're not applying that same logic to damn near everything in your life.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

TDLR: It's not a good solution when people are clearly complaining about it.

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...because no one has *ever* complained about problems running the game on PC...right?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Show me any corporation offering goods and/or services to consumers who's policies do not in fact suck. Show me a EULA that does not reserve all rights to the corporate behind it and limit almost every right of the consumer. You're being very blinkered in your view if you're not applying that same logic to damn near everything in your life.

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Exactly, I choose the companies whose limitations I can tolerate. Sony is not a company with limitations that I can tolerate so my money doesn't go to them, it goes to what I can tolerate. This is the same logic if you were going to choose someone for a relationship and marriage right? No one is perfect but if you can accept their shortcomings, you can get along just fine. There's lots of corporations out there with lots of various policies, I support the ones I can deal with. This thread implies that a lot of people cannot tolerate Sony's crap so perhaps it's time to move on.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

That's a straw man. A deliberate distraction from the point. It doesn't change the differences between a PC and the ps3/4 as it specifically pertains to this situation. In this situation PC does not have a limitation the PS3/4 does have and specifically one that is a policy in place by Sony. We aren't have a meta-physical debate about our socioeconomic situations in life. We are talking about the differences between two platforms for the purposes of playing this game specifically.

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This too

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Show me any corporation offering goods and/or services to consumers who's policies do not in fact suck. Show me a EULA that does not reserve all rights to the corporate behind it and limit almost every right of the consumer. You're being very blinkered in your view if you're not applying that same logic to damn near everything in your life.

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That's a straw man. A deliberate distraction from the point. It doesn't change the differences between a PC and the ps3/4 as it specifically pertains to this situation. In this situation PC does not have a limitation the PS3/4 does have and specifically one that is a policy in place by Sony. We aren't have a meta-physical debate about our socioeconomic situations in life. We are talking about the differences between two platforms for the purposes of playing this game specifically.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

That's a straw man.

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It's a direct reply to the point raised by the other poster regarding their reasons for not using a Sony product, hardly a straw man.

If you want to limit yourself to the differences in two platforms for the purposes of playing the game, then you (and others) should limit yourselves to the external authentication mediated by PSN, and cut the PC master race crap.

PSN being down every day isn't a fact. Just saying in case you want to adjust your thread title.