Carbontwine and coats from hunts? doing this to us again?

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Daily hunts give 64 seals (math might not be right). Weekly hunts give 100. A ranks give 40 seals. They sit on a 3-4 hour timer. There are a ton of them.

You can EASILY obtain much more than 1 carboncoat a week. Depends on how focused you are.

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Is it a bad thing for you and other players to have high level gears? wouldn't it make everyone's dungeon runs easier?

Hehehe find it amusing how people complain about it. The way I see it the increased hunt rewards aren't there for the people that want the carbon upgrades. It's there for people that want the glamours in reasonable times - there's also some mats now there as well.

Let's see you need 30 S ranks at full credit to get the more desirable one. And they have long cooldowns(2-3 days)... you might get 30 in a week if you are lucky and are there when the windows are open. Yes A ranks give as well... 75 A ranks... Let's say you got 12h per day to kill in the game and get lucky and get all 3 A rank windows in that timeframe - and actually full credit... You would idealy get 3000 every 2 days - and that you really aren't doing nothing else during the hunt windows.


Now if you have 12h/day to play then great for you.

So yes they give them but at the same time it requires a lot of time commitment.

Does it mean that on the extreme end some people will be able to get 4 upgrade items - maybe a third? Sure. Will it be the majority? Not likely.

Do I care? No. I'm happy cause I'll be able to get some of the glamour gear in a decent timeframe without needing to actually grind hunts.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Is it a bad thing for you and other players to have high level gears? wouldn't it make everyone's dungeon runs easier?

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I'm not against players having high gear lol. They aren't obtaining Dreadwyrm items and a full poetics set =/= BiS in most cases.

Being able to gear alternative classes is awesome. Being able to upgrade outside of 2 turns from FCoB is awesome. Seriously, there are 2 drops a week before. I welcome this.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Daily hunts give 64 seals (math might not be right). Weekly hunts give 100. A ranks give 40 seals. They sit on a 3-4 hour timer. There are a ton of them.

You can EASILY obtain much more than 1 carboncoat a week. Depends on how focused you are.

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Yes ONE, a week, same as doing final coil and getting 1 item a week just one requires a lot of grind, the other requires teamwork. 2 Different methods of obtaining the same item with the same amount of work needed. Not everyone can do Final coil, and those who can get dread gear as a reward so they have something to show for their hard work, the rest of us need gear to keep up with content and the Poetic system is that way, now we will need a way to get up to ilvl 130 items, it does not surpass Dread gear in anyway the stats are always much better.

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Originally Posted by Crater

It's a very backwards way of doing things to unlock the uncapped, as-many-as-you-can-stomach-in-a-week method first and then to add in the weekly-capped method later.

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This right here. I can seriously not believe some of the design decisions that actually go through.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

ilvl 130 items, it does not surpass Dread gear in anyway the stats are always much better.

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This sorry is debetable. Certain upgraded poetics pieces are BiS for some while some Dread bits are BiS for those same. The stats are the same. At the same ilvl the main job stat(dex,str,vit,mnd) and vitality will be the same between a poe and dread piece. Only secondary stats will change - which is arguable to each job and player preference.

Hunts have come full circle. When they first came out alot of people were just straight up nasty, frame rates were almost nonexistant, hunt targets disappearing. Then they finally start winding down with subsequent patches. People would ask questions on here about hunts, some people were like, "people still do hunts, ha ha ha, what a bunch of losers". Now a new patch that adds some content to the hunt mix, it starts all over again. Before this would see poor Nahn, or Murraco just sitting there maybe one person by it shouting out its location, maybe a response or two, but really nothing. Last night I come into West La Noscea for my beast quests, there goes the chat log flying off the handle about Nahn. I just happen to be going that way for a quests. There they are so many people again frame rates dropping off, rendering going haywire. Good show everyone, right back where it started.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

This sorry is debetable. Certain upgraded poetics pieces are BiS for some while some Dread bits are BiS for those same. The stats are the same. At the same ilvl the main job stat(dex,str,vit,mnd) and vitality will be the same between a poe and dread piece. Only secondary stats will change - which is arguable to each job and player preference.

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but still people should not be forced to only have ilvl 120 gear simply because they can not do Final coil and a limited group should not be allowed to have the BiS gear, everyone needs to kinda have it, or we have a gap... and then you get the whole elitism coming up

Same rubbish happened in WoW, and i start seeing it here....soon it will be 130+ ilvl only runs for Final coil...

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

but still people should not be forced to only have ilvl 120 gear simply because they can not do Final coil and a limited group should not be allowed to have the BiS gear, everyone needs to kinda have it, or we have a gap... and then you get the whole elitism coming up

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If you have read my previous post like 2 posts up from that one. I say I don't care about it at all. Infact I'm happy they buffed the hunts. I'm also happy with the required seals for the items themselves. I think they considered that most players(those that actually need to do something else for 8h per day) should be able to get atleast one of the items per week if that is their focus.

Working on alex for my relic.. the increased daily hunt rewards is great for me (been doing the stupid fate hunting every day for weeks now), but the zerg rush at A ranks make them not worth even trying to get to. I'm hoping the hype dies off in a week or so, so that people still do the A ranks, but not so much that it's dead before I can run to it..

I wonder why did they do that upgrade part at all. I think it was much better in 2.0 you could get same item lvl with mythologies and coil and no needed waste time for upgrading items at all.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

If you have read my previous post like 2 posts up from that one. I say I don't care about it at all. Infact I'm happy they buffed the hunts. I'm also happy with the required seals for the items themselves. I think they considered that most players(those that actually need to do something else for 8h per day) should be able to get atleast one of the items per week if that is their focus.

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Im not having ago at you and im sorry if you got that impression. I just dislike the way people are making hunts out to be terrible, they are not that good imo...id prefer the ST style of drops yes. But at least i have a away to gain carbontwine.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I wonder why did they do that upgrade part at all. I think it was much better in 2.0 you could get same item lvl with mythologies and coil and no needed waste time for upgrading items at all.

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To slow down the gear progression rate and keep it going for your main job into odd numbered patches. In 2.0 you'd pretty much have a full set of i90 gear just from myth by the time 2.1 was coming out so there was no gear progression for your main job after 2.1 until 2.2 came out, with the upgrade system people who don't do coil now get to have "fun" farming hunts and CT for upgrade items for their main job in odd numbered patches to continue gearing up.

Slower gear progression is one that is probably main... other is to keep people playing just for the upgrade items - because so many people will want them for the off jobs that they will rerun the content over and over and over thus keeping it alive and well.

And now that weekly quest to get the Carboncoat, brings players back into LoTA and ST and keeps WoD going so new players don't have to see those 60min+ Q's...hopefully.

All I know is, Augmented shield, here I come!!!

Just when I was starting to enjoy Hunts as a casual activity (with only a couple parties ever showing up, so the fights weren't completely mindless) to work towards various patriotic glamour pieces, SE goes and fills the event with vitriol by making it progression based again... Sigh...

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Originally Posted by Pterois

y'all are more than welcome to walk into FCOB...

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I couldn't care less about the Carbontwine, I care about the fact that Hunts are once again going to devolve into possibly the worst piece of content in the game because the majority cares about Carbontwine. Already witnessed pull drama, which I haven't seen for a long time. This is utterly the dumbest thing SE could do when they explicitly stated they didn't like how Hunts ended up with Sand of Time/etc as rewards... "We didn't like how that turned out, so we're doing it again", bra-f*cking-vo SE.

y'all are more than welcome to walk into FCOB...

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Yes ONE, a week, same as doing final coil and getting 1 item a week just one requires a lot of grind, the other requires teamwork. 2 Different methods of obtaining the same item with the same amount of work needed. Not everyone can do Final coil, and those who can get dread gear as a reward so they have something to show for their hard work, the rest of us need gear to keep up with content and the Poetic system is that way, now we will need a way to get up to ilvl 130 items, it does not surpass Dread gear in anyway the stats are always much better.

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GDI. I'M NOT AGAINST THE HUNTS LMAO

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

GDI. I'M NOT AGAINST THE HUNTS LMAO

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It just sounds like you were from ur post that is all. The new weekly does make older stuff better, i do like that however hunts for me is a bonus as i can catch up and get my armour upgraded so then i might have a chance to do Final coil. And it also takes longer then the old hunt system with the Soldiery armour and the whole Sand of time easy mode.

Meh just gonna sit back and laugh at the idiots killing 75 a ranks per twine. Really, why bother.....eventually ur gonna have all 130 from either ct(when they add the twine to the weekly, shouldn't be long now ) or coil, the only thing hunting will do is make u get bored faster.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

It just sounds like you were from ur post that is all. The new weekly does make older stuff better, i do like that however hunts for me is a bonus as i can catch up and get my armour upgraded so then i might have a chance to do Final coil. And it also takes longer then the old hunt system with the Soldiery armour and the whole Sand of time easy mode.

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I want to just make sure its very clear that I am against hunts. No hyperbole when I say how bad they are. I've never seen a mechanic turn me off from an MMO so fast, and I've been around since Planes of Power. People not doing them should have been a sign to SE that they are like going to the dentist. Forcing them as a means of non capped catch up with no other alternative (dungeons, primals, crafting) is not going to make hunts any more appealing. Mostly I see it as a sign they aren't willing to abandon the reality that maybe the reason people don't do hunts is because of how lame they are as a concept, and juking the rewards and giving no alternatives to the catch-up past cap is going to have the opposite effect and bring hunts even more hate.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

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So, tell me cleanly. Why do you hate hunts? Because you feel like that is the only way to catch up to raiders?

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Originally Posted by Toystore

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Well they didnt add carbontwine or Tomes to WoD, so people have to settle for the next best thing..and that is hunts, i hate hunts they bore me and i can barely stand doing 2 -3, but honestly its a lot more hassle and takes more time then before.

Giving people options is a good thing.

I hate hunts as a concept, but that being the only way they implemented catch up beyond the weekly is the perfect storm of what I see as unfocused and inexperienced design decisions.

Because it's the only way to catch up in a pragmatic fashion is not why I hate hunts. That's why I'm no longer playing the game. Why I hate hunts:

It's AFK gameplay. Most of it is spent alt tabbed, or having players teleport around zones, riding every which way getting dazed by mobs to find weak A and S ranks to shout about. There's a whole infrastructure built around gaming the respawns because this stage is so annoying.

Aside from being AFK gameplay, you can't actually commit to anything while you are afk, because once the chaos starts and people know the A rank is up, you have to get your ass to mars, , and get enough credit for full seals before the thing goes down. And the hunt always loves to appear on the furthest point in the map too. If you aren't in a hunting party at the time, then you have to awkwardly shout and opt into the hunt with a group, everyone looks around waiting for invites and not sending them, and all of this tense socialization and work to put together a full party is negated 10 seconds after the thing is dead.

I'd sit there and throw a stone on it, it's about as lazy and effortless as you need to be to kill the thing, but I wouldn't get credit. But I don't want credit. I want to be able not to participate in hunts and still play the catch up game. Moreso I have heard this happened in 2.3 and SE said they learned, but seeing they did it again in 2.5, what is bothering me is going forward are they going to do this again? in 3.2? In 4.5? Because saying they learned from hunts is a lie, clearly we are back here. I came back in 2.4 so I don't know exactly what went down in 2.3, but as conjecture moving forward this is a design decision that makes me worry about future design decisions regarding the importance of hunts and if they really learned or not.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

It's AFK gameplay. Most of it is spent alt tabbed

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I kick players that do this from my group and all other groups should. Help find the mob or gtfo. I find this reason you listed as silly. Only baddies AFK hunt and leech from the hard work of their team and other players. It's not how it was intended to be played. It's how bad people play.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

I kick players that do this from my group and all other groups should. Help find the mob or gtfo. I find this reason you listed as silly. Only baddies AFK hunt and leech from the hard work of their team and other players. It's not how it was intended to be played. It's how bad people play.

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And that's another problem with hunts. Who cares if you kick a leech. You're broadcasting to the wide world where it is and doing the work for them/us. Why do we care that you kick us? The leeches form a splinter group, follow you to the mark. You either hide the location from the world and harbor distrust and conflict in the community, or the leeches with better things to do with their time than hunts (root canal) just follow the bread crumb trail.

And also you'll be seeing more of these leech guys, so expect to do more kicks in 2.5. Not that it affects them, they don't have to be in your group. They just need an awkwardly formed social hive of 8 players to gain enough enmity for credit and its alt tab some more.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

You're broadcasting to the wide world where it is and doing the work for them/us. Why do we care that you kick us?

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If you aren't in my group there is a better chance you'll get the call late and never make it if we are the one that finds the mob. I find enough comfort in that. If you're in my party you're actively hunting. Period. This is my free time I'm spending hunting and trying to progress. Not happy go lucky welfare group time. If you want to leech join a leech group. There is literally no reason I have to look at them in my party list while they do nothing. The apathy of others is no reason to have apathy myself. Two wrongs don't make a right. You're reasoning falls flat and lacks substance. It doesn't actually have to punish them for me to refuse to be a part of there laziness. If I do keep them in my party and I find the mob then their laziness pays off due to my personal handwork. That is unacceptable.

The upgrade items could have been handled better. It seems that things would have probably been better if these items dropped in WoD, on a separate lockout like what was alluded to, and give players the ability to get these items in a similar fashion as was ST. At the moment the items are locked behind content that it seems, the large majority of the player base, does not do. This is especially true for CT and ST now. It seems silly to make players go back through content, that is more than a year old at this point, to upgrade current high ilvl gear.

No my reasoning is perfect. Short of being your own 8 man maverick group by itself, you are going to be criticized for an early pull in an attempt to "show it to the leechers"

Unless everyone hunting is in their own secret social bubble which thereby splinters the server even further, the information of where the hunt is is not difficult knowledge to obtain through various channels or friends. Anyone can get there before a late pull without any trouble while alt tabbed. And I'm glad you resent leechers, because that's what hunts do. They harbor resentment between various players by design. Expect that resentment to increase exponentially as more people who don't want to be there are showing up for their seals.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

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So, selfish reasons. Got it. Move to Zalera or another low pop server then.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

So, selfish reasons. Got it. Move to Zalera or another low pop server then.

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I'll do you one better and move to another MMO. I like this game, and don't want to see this happen to it which is why I'm trying to get this brought up now. Don't hate the player hate the game as they say.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

People will have full 130 soon... If I didn't have to farm for my relic at the moment, I would have gotten the carbontwine really quickly. It's only 3000 seals with hunts giving double the amount they used to, and I got 900-1000 seals a day before the patch.

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While hunts give double what they used to, Sands were originall 750 AS... With Carbontwine being 3000 AS, it means you have to put in double the effort compared to before.
And that's not counting that due to the amount of people hunting, AS aquisition rate is going down as few get full credit.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Hunts are poorly designed, but in my opinion give people stuff to actually do outside coils. hunts > dungeons easily in my eyes. Nothing fun about spaming dungeons for tokens at the end either. At least hunts it is not a 20-30min dedication of your life to the unfunness.

The problem with the game is there is a massive lack of relevant content endgame.

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Totally agree.

While the Hunts aren't perfect, it is a good NON-INSTANCED way for some players to go and do something that doesn't require 24 Players queueing for an Instance.

If you happen to only have a few minutes and don't want to wait for a queue? If an A Mob or S Rank Mob pops, or you see one in the field, great.

Ultimately, as Xatsh said, this game just needs more Variety of End Game Content. There's 1 End Game Raid with a Weekly Lockout (so just 1 win of each turn per week). And with the Lockout and Loot Penalty, even though you can run it more than once per week, it's so harsh (losing 1 or both Chests), that it's not really helpful in FC / LS with a number of players not with a factor of 8.

If we only had World of Darkness (1 Instance) this patch to get items for upgrade (besides Coil which has been out for a while), the grind would become extremely repetitive and burn people out even faster.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

If you happen to only have a few minutes and don't want to wait for a queue? If an A Mob or S Rank Mob pops, or you see one in the field, great.

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That's true; like FATEs, they are fine as opportunistic content. But, like FATEs, once you incentivise everyone to grind them, it quickly becomes apparent that they don't work well that way. If there was more content that awarded Allied Seals (and which scaled better), hunts could be the sometimes activity they deserve to be, rather than a monotonous grind.

The problem people myself included are having is SEs timing in adding carboncoats/twine to hunts.
If you don't/can't do coil for whatever reason yes there should be another way to get them, the crystal tower weekly drop is a perfect way to do this. I personally really do like this new weekly CT/ST/WoD run for carboncoats.

Adding them to hunts so soon on the other hand is just stupid, right now isn't a "catch up" phase for i130 gear. So this mindless grind with no cap allowing people to become i130 in a short time makes no sense.
If they were put into hunts in 2.53 i would have been ok with that.

Also it ruins hunts. A month ago i was getting my alexandrites, many of them by hunting. The amount of people hunting was perhaps 1 group in off times and 20-30 people at prime times on cactuar.
Killing an A rank with a 1 single group of 8 is actually FUN.
Trying to get to an A rank and hopefully get a couple whacks in before 160 people kill it in 7 seconds is NOT fun.

Hunts are one of the most time/effort consuming thing I've seen! <.< I did 1 hunt grind for just 1 timesand! Took 2x 4hours(could have been faster, but.. early pullers...) till I got 750 hunt seals.
After I upgraded my 1st lv100 weapon, I feelt like "wow that what a waste of time for just 1 upgrade on a weapon... -.-"
I never did this again.
I just do the weekly target and S-Ranks in case im on the same map and only 30secs away.

I think they're doing something wrong with the hunts and these upgrade materials. Before 2.5 it seemed like it was about right. There would be some people showing up for As, maybe a group or 2 depending on time of day. S ranks would still get zerged down. This seems about right given the amount of HP of an A vs. an S.

But now that hunts are the sole source of carbontwine outside of coil (and the sole spammable source), A's are getting zerged down in 15s or less and the bickering over early pulls and the like has returned. They probably shouldn't have released carbontwine on the hunt until they also released them in CT.

I don't know about other servers, but on mine, you're lucky if you can even get to a hunt before it's dead. This isn't even due to lag or slow loading times. Yes, you need a lot of seals and it's time consuming, but the fact they're so easy to kill now and only takes a few hits to get full credit by a party member means almost everyone is hunting. Yet not everyone can get credit. The A ranks die almost as soon as they're called in hunt linkshells and some groups have even zerged them without calling them at all. They just shouldn't have made hunts the easiest way to obtain carbon.

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Originally Posted by Avalios

Adding them to hunts so soon on the other hand is just stupid, right now isn't a "catch up" phase for i130 gear. So this mindless grind with no cap allowing people to become i130 in a short time makes no sense.
If they were put into hunts in 2.53 i would have been ok with that.

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Unfortunately you aren't in charge of when "catch up" phases begin. Squenix is monitoring the rate at which players clear content and they determined the catch up phase starts now. Deal with it.