AH info lost in the sauce?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anathiel

Its semantics, I call it an AH because that's what its called in every other MMO. You can hate on the name of it, but that's what's it called. People new to a game are called amateurs but we call them noobs. Its just a word. And part of the info I'm trying to get is if they do indeed implement AH's how would they do so.

---

The majority of games that have an Auction House have some sort of auction mechanic involved as well. Like WoW. Just because people don't use it doesn't mean its no longer an auction house.

We want to break that habit. If its not an auction and has no auction mechanics, do not call it one. Its a Market.

Eve has a Market.
FFXIV currently has a Market.

Let us be trend setters for proper word usage.

Well to be honest I would also like an auction function. You put the starting price and people want it badly enough they're going to pay wayyyy more than you asked for. Good for the seller, you probably wouldn't see it until further down the road with higher population servers and ultra rare sellable gear. But again, this wasn't supposed to be a mw vs ah thread lol, just a "gimme info!" Thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

An auction is when you bid for somthing, if they add a feature to buy from the wards interface its still not an auction house, anywhere that uses the term auction house for a buy now feature either doesnt know what an acuction house is or just uses the term because everywhere else does.

If they add a buy now feature to the wards interface its still the wards, have you ever seen an rl auction house that lets you buy now? ebay doesnt count because it has bidding, just has an option to buy now if the seller wants it.

Bidding is what makes an auction house an auction house, if they just have a buy now button its still a market just without the need to run to the retainer.

Edit: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/auction

---

Your post was late and unnecessary. Cair already stole your thunder. Read the whole thread before posting instead of stopping to drop off your opinion on the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KitCat

Your post was late and unnecessary. Cair already stole your thunder. Read the whole thread before posting instead of stopping to drop off your opinion on the way.

---

I just dont want SE to read this and give somthing a wrong name because there jumping on the band waggon, the more people that give this logic against the people who say they want an auction house which has no auction, the less chance there is of SE thinking we just want the name.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

I just dont want SE to read this and give somthing a wrong name because there jumping on the band waggon, the more people that give this logic against the people who say they want an auction house which has no auction, the less chance there is of SE thinking we just want the name.

---

havent you learned
people dont know what they want

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

havent you learned
people dont know what they want

---

Lol, if I can do one thing on these forums it will be to put a lil logic into them, but it feels like the few of us that are trying are fighting a loosing battle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

Lol, if I can do one thing on these forums it will be to put a lil logic into them, but it feels like the few of us that are trying are fighting a loosing battle.

---

thats always the case

90% of posters just want to say they want stuff without thinking it through(jump is going to save this game didnt you know?)
9% want things that we already have, but they want it made easier and faster(for instance, they dont want an AH, they want a counter to buy stuff at instead of entering the wards)
the other 1% of us know exactly what we want and the reality of it

The reason we have the market wards right now is because Tanaka was too lazy to design a mog-house system. He decided that he could knock out two birds with one stone by using the market wards. Problem is, people really like mog houses and AHs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

thats always the case

90% of posters just want to say they want stuff without thinking it through(jump is going to save this game didnt you know?)
9% want things that we already have, but they want it made easier and faster(for instance, they dont want an AH, they want a counter to buy stuff at instead of entering the wards)
the other 1% of us know exactly what we want and the reality of it

---

Lets just hope SE listens to the 10% of people that think things through and either just want things speeding up or know what they want rather than all the useless "I wanna sprout wings and fly, sephiroth did it so I wanna" type posts.

A counter so you dont have to enter the wards would be a good thing to implement it, the main problem would be connecting all the retainers to it, and the constant changes to bazaars, but it is workable possibly by tweaking the search feature slightly or borrowing code from it for a differant menu for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

thats always the case

90% of posters just want to say they want stuff without thinking it through(jump is going to save this game didnt you know?)
9% want things that we already have, but they want it made easier and faster(for instance, they dont want an AH, they want a counter to buy stuff at instead of entering the wards)
the other 1% of us know exactly what we want and the reality of it

---

To which you'll still need to place a retainer in a ward. I'm for getting rid of all that is pointless. Simpler, convenient, and more elegant market systems have been used in games for many years. Even if you can buy from the search menu, it's still a step down in convenience. Why must you place a retainer somewhere? It's pointless. If what you supposedly want still includes retainer placement, then this system is still going to have a lot of issues if the game becomes popular. Everyone gets two retainers and any additional retainers purchased for an extra fee per month (providing that's still going to happen). Can you not see that this will become a significant problem later on? I would like to hope this game will have a significant amount of players in the future.

I vote for a WoW style AH. It's simple, convenient, and I've never hit a cap on how many things you can sell at once. I could care less what it's called.

And if you want to get technical...if you set up a counter outside to buy things, and no transactions are made inside of the ward rooms, it's not a "Market Wards", is it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

thats always the case

90% of posters just want to say they want stuff without thinking it through(jump is going to save this game didnt you know?)
9% want things that we already have, but they want it made easier and faster(for instance, they dont want an AH, they want a counter to buy stuff at instead of entering the wards)
the other 1% of us know exactly what we want and the reality of it

---

The problem being that everyone thinks they're in that last 1%.

I'm sorta curious about what it is exactly that you know you want and the realities of it.

I want a functional Menu Driven Marketward that refuses to use any form of Bidding Mechanic or Price History. With Prices being WYSIWYG.

In regards to "lost" I would say it just means that it isn't planned for 1.19, which is what that list focus a huge chuck on time on. :)

We should hear something after 1.19

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel

To which you'll still need to place a retainer in a ward. I'm for getting rid of all that is pointless. Simpler, convenient, and more elegant market systems have been used in games for many years. Even if you can buy from the search menu, it's still a step down in convenience. Why must you place a retainer somewhere? It's pointless. If what you supposedly want still includes retainer placement, then this system is still going to have a lot of issues if the game becomes popular. Everyone gets two retainers and any additional retainers purchased for an extra fee per month (providing that's still going to happen). Can you not see that this will become a significant problem later on? I would like to hope this game will have a significant amount of players in the future.

I vote for a WoW style AH. It's simple, convenient, and I've never hit a cap on how many things you can sell at once. I could care less what it's called.

And if you want to get technical...if you set up a counter outside to buy things, and no transactions are made inside of the ward rooms, it's not a "Market Wards", is it?

---

The only reasons we have capacity issues with the wards is because the community decided to swarm Ul'dah to exploit a BW leves, if people had spread out around the world there would have been no problems and as population increases and SE improve the servers they can increase the amount of retainers can be in the wards, which they have done once, even better change it to only render your retainer and ones that have an item your looking for, which will help alot.

If the change it to buy from a counter at the wards enterance its is still a market, the "market wards" is a collective name for every area like armorfitters row, battlecraft row etc so yes they would still be market wards because there still based around the current market wards (remember collective name for all areas in the wards) because that is ultimatly where the items are. Take it this way if you call a pizza shop you are still buying from a pizza shop, which is how they could make the wards work.

It would be like you go to a counter yes the item would go straight to your inv but its still like the npc behind the counter gets the item for you. Which means it is still a market ward because that where you buy an item from not the counter or npc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cairdeas

I want a functional Menu Driven Marketward that refuses to use any form of Bidding Mechanic or Price History. With Prices being WYSIWYG.

---

So...you wouldn't welcome (For example!) A system where... let's say its 2007 and there's One krakens club for an entire ff:xi server, you put it up on a bidding auction and watch the gil flood in. That is one of the reasons I could see the benefit of a free auction. Rare items are worth whatever people are willing to pay, what's wrong with that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anathiel

So...you wouldn't welcome (For example!) A system where... let's say its 2007 and there's One krakens club for an entire ff:xi server, you put it up on a bidding auction and watch the gil flood in. That is one of the reasons I could see the benefit of a free auction. Rare items are worth whatever people are willing to pay, what's wrong with that?

---

The problem with that is you cant just get the item, it would defeat the object of being faster than the wards because you would have to stand around for the auction to end costantly bidding, whats not to stop people putting em up for a 1hr auction so to get a weapon and full armour you are looking at 6hrs (not including accessories like belts chokers and rings) to get them which no one would do, so your system would only work for single things people wanted.

As you say if theres one kraken club for the whole server you could put it up for 200mil and people would pay it its called supply and demand.

Cairdeas's idea is the best I have seen for the market wards and should get looked into by the devs.

I never said it would be faster than the wards. Not once I don't think. But it would be the best way to maximize profit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cairdeas

No, Adding Timed or Blind Bidding would, and no one likes those.

---

Speak for yourself. I sure as heck am tired of having to traipse between a dozen zones just to get what I need. Let me send my personal retainer out to fetch the items after I find them in the search, if that's how they need to justify it.

I want convenience rather than spending half an hour to track down the materials I need from the wards. I've got other stuff to do.

The only thing that needs to be addressed is the pricing wars idiots have between each other affecting other players and players who put gear up extremely low priced to "get rid of it". Then, in return, those mentioned idiots lower their prices low too cause, "THEY CAN'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT".

On the plus side of the exact same subject, it's harder to control the pricing when it is visible. Meaning you will have to take control of the outlet. Since this is nearly impossible, you won't really find many items that are being held hostage in the market wards for an asinine price.

On the subject of AH, at this point we don't need one really. Just the way the MW function regarding items everyone anticipates on being rare and expensive. Perhaps as another person suggested, an auction row where pricing is blind. I think that would be enough to accommodate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

The only thing that needs to be addressed is the pricing wars idiots have between each other affecting other players and players who put gear up extremely low priced to "get rid of it". Then, in return, those mentioned idiots lower their prices low too cause, "THEY CAN'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT".

On the plus side of the exact same subject, it's harder to control the pricing when it is visible. Meaning you will have to take control of the outlet. Since this is nearly impossible, you won't really find many items that are being held hostage in the market wards for an asinine price.

On the subject of AH, at this point we don't need one really. Just the way the MW function regarding items everyone anticipates on being rare and expensive. Perhaps as another person suggested, an auction row where pricing is blind. I think that would be enough to accommodate.

---

You realize a healthy chunk of that is from the people running bots buying out items and re-listing them at their own prices right? They are putting their items super low because they barely have to work to get the items. What might take a normal player hours to gather the leather, metal and or cloth to make a chest piece takes a botter with his 'herd' a fraction of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phenidate

You realize a healthy chunk of that is from the people running bots buying out items and re-listing them at their own prices right? They are putting their items super low because they barely have to work to get the items. What might take a normal player hours to gather the leather, metal and or cloth to make a chest piece takes a botter with his 'herd' a fraction of the time.

---

Sounds like that justifies having a more...I don't even know what to call it anymore as to not stir up a shit storm...not ah that seems to light people up. But whatever you call it. I want it, and I want to know if they're going to implement it and how if they do decide to put it in.

This issue is right up there next to day one stuff like oh idk Linkshell Admin~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phenidate

You realize a healthy chunk of that is from the people running bots buying out items and re-listing them at their own prices right? They are putting their items super low because they barely have to work to get the items. What might take a normal player hours to gather the leather, metal and or cloth to make a chest piece takes a botter with his 'herd' a fraction of the time.

---

That's a little conspiracy theorist. I was mainly talking about harder to get/craft items that bots (assuming you mean RMT) don't ever see in their inventories. Raptor skins, sinew, middle and upper gear, Toad skins, upper accessories, even R50 party NM materials and crafted items. Of course, these items change in pricing dependent on demand, but things sometimes do go out of control with an impatient player in the mist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anathiel

Its semantics, I call it an AH because that's what its called in every other MMO. You can hate on the name of it, but that's what's it called. People new to a game are called amateurs but we call them noobs. Its just a word. And part of the info I'm trying to get is if they do indeed implement AH's how would they do so.

---

Semantics is extremely important when dealing with a multilingual community. Words mean what they mean, not what we want them to mean.

Look at Yoshi's use of the correct English meaning of "raid" in place of the corrupted Everquest/WoW meaning of the word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anathiel

Sounds like that justifies having a more...I don't even know what to call it anymore as to not stir up a shit storm...not ah that seems to light people up. But whatever you call it. I want it, and I want to know if they're going to implement it and how if they do decide to put it in.

---

They need to implement a more direct market for players to use, which clearly states WHO is selling the item, WHEN it was posted, and WHAT other items have been sold in the past few days, weeks, months. If someone is trying to manipulate a market they can more easily be outed as doing just that, when a 'player' is doing this on many dozens of items and adding new items at an unprecedented rate (80 new jerkins in 2 hours? 180 new chainmail coifs in the last hour?) we need to be able to see it.

At least a typical AH lends it self, in recent MMOs, to a centralized location with a fairly comprehensive UI. HOW the stupid thing works is irrelevant. I don't even care if we call it "Jim Bobs Flea Market for the Finest Arcane Garbage of Eorzea", just centralize the system and make it more transparent as to who is moving what where and how often.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cairdeas

AH is not necessary, Only Time and Convenience Are. And they can be implemented into the wards.

---

Considering you might have to run around several wards to get the 2-3 items you want when you could just do it from an interface, I'd prefer an EVE style market where you can put in buy orders (without needing the item first) as well as sell orders. It's simple and it'll get things done.

Quote:

---

Those of us claiming not to want an Auction House dont want those bidding mechanics, so we have to fight extra hard against the people blindly asking for an Auction House. We don't want SE confused.

---

I agree with not confusing the devs.

It should be a single interface where you can sell all your stuff and put in simple buy orders (type in the name of the item). For the things you want to buy or sell, everything is shown on a list if you have the money, you can click on it and buy the number of items you want. Navigation should be better than having windows constantly closing and opening.

BTW for each item, add a page for past price history over the last day, week, month, 3 months, and overall.

Quote:

---

just centralize the system and make it more transparent as to who is moving what where and how often.

---

just centralizing the system don't help economy at all, you know ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anathiel

So...you wouldn't welcome (For example!) A system where... let's say its 2007 and there's One krakens club for an entire ff:xi server, you put it up on a bidding auction and watch the gil flood in. That is one of the reasons I could see the benefit of a free auction. Rare items are worth whatever people are willing to pay, what's wrong with that?

---

Except this is 2011, And SE hasn't released any item as sought after as the Kraken Club and not made it untradable.

It needs something more than what we have. Right now we have hundreds of anonymously dropped retainers by who knows what.

Working against RMT is not paranoia. I can go out to Cedarwood or Camp Tranquil and dig up a couple botany or craft bots easy. They are there and they sure as heck aren't botting just for the fun of it.

Thing is, if you can't buy the uberrare items, it lessens what you can do as a botter, RMT, or a chinese prisoner being forced to play the game. If Ifrit's fur thong is a highly prized item and you can't trade it, the only way you can get it is to play the game and earn it the old fashioned way. So you can't just spend $10 to buy the gil needed to get it in the MWs.

In GW, the botters and RMTers did screw up the economy by inflating prices and acquired some items that only came out for a limited time (which were lost for good after some of them were banned). So as long as it doesn't hurt the players, I'm for SE trying things to stop RMTers and botters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Thing is, if you can't buy the uberrare items, it lessens what you can do as a botter, RMT, or a chinese prisoner being forced to play the game. If Ifrit's fur thong is a highly prized item and you can't trade it, the only way you can get it is to play the game and earn it the old fashioned way. So you can't just spend $10 to buy the gil needed to get it in the MWs.

In GW, the botters and RMTers did screw up the economy by inflating prices and acquired some items that only came out for a limited time (which were lost for good after some of them were banned). So as long as it doesn't hurt the players, I'm for SE trying things to stop RMTers and botters.

---

The problem with making important items impossible to craft is that we end up with a craft system like WOW. Crafting in WOW atleast makes it so it isn't a formal job requiring the entailed time investment. Unless you are a consumables crafter, most of your gear is junked the moment loot drops in a dungeon.

Considering one of the facets of the game is meant to be crafting, cheaping out on a proper system in game to move goods is a serious problem.

If players are expected to dedicate time into a craft in order to become a part of the market, there needs to be a way we can know we aren't being unfairly edged out by Chinese RMT sweatshops and bots.

........and I still want info. i really didn't want this to derail and it did lol. I was hoping for a group of people to be like: "yeah, we also want to know about any new AH info". yeah...didn't get that at all lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anathiel

........and I still want info. i really didn't want this to derail and it did lol. I was hoping for a group of people to be like: "yeah, we also want to know about any new AH info". yeah...didn't get that at all lol.

---

unfortunately its imposible to talk about an AH without this kinda response

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

unfortunately its imposible to talk about an AH without this kinda response

---

that's a shame... I just wanted to know what was going on lol, instead this thread is gonna be overlooked as a "MW vs. AH". oh well...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anathiel

........and I still want info. i really didn't want this to derail and it did lol. I was hoping for a group of people to be like: "yeah, we also want to know about any new AH info". yeah...didn't get that at all lol.

---

Any mention of an AH is almost taboo on these forums, these days.

the wards are basicly a AH and mule in one, no running back and forth like AH it saves time.

It's pretty clear they're trying to sweep the issue under a rug like nobody would notice. The first thing N. Yoshida did was wooing players by saying if AH is what people want we'll need to put it in. That was over 6 months ago.
They have implemented numerous things that got lower amount of votes than the AH did (over 20%) but still no AH in the game. Just a broken MW that sucks a lot of dev time because the zoning( that nobody likes) crashes the game when it can't handle drawing of 100 dead zombies. When it doesn't crash it can only draw a small fraction of the copy-pasted hi-res models that is neither fast, realistic nor fun.


AH was voted by the players in the poll! AH polls have been happening on these forums from the day the forums were launched. AH has always been voted the better option by a landslide. Always.

All MW needs is price histories and shopping via search menu to accomplish this. Why are they messing with little things like recipes when there is a massive elephant in the room preventing proper economy?

honestly i wouldnt mind keeping it the same as it is now, if theyd just add hq next to the item listing. +1/2/3 etc etc.

I dont mind the MW's persay vs. a AH but MW's still needs improving asap.

The two biggest things I can think of right now are figuring out how to display HQ items and being able to bring up the item search menu anywhere in the wards having to run to the walls can be annoying and shouldn't be needed.