RNG is Back with ZODIAC Relic

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Originally Posted by Sethra

Excuse me for not playing by your schedule and for wanting to play my main.

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Try making friends? I mean, this is a social game. Friends make everything better.

I've been very lucky so far with my drops, and although I haven't quite finished yet, I personally dislike how much soldier is needed for the quests. If it were myth needed, we would be done in a flash. However, soldier is still hard to come by even though it's unlimited now. At this rate, it's a case of spamming Snowcloak as well as doing your daily roulettes, and keep hoping to do obscure dungeons/trials that not many people do in hope of getting that extra soldier by someone new. Still, as some people have said on here, there is definitely progress across the board being made by people. At first I thought this would be the longest stage thus far for most of us, but it could potentially be one of the fastest - depending, of course, if RNG is on your side to some degree.

The biggest lie was actually saying that the relic questline and the zodiac braves saga is for casuals. It's not. Really.

The solidiery requirement really doesn't mean that much unless you get super lucky. I have 5 more drops to get however I only need 1000 to finish solidiery I don't see any way that I won't have that before I get my drops.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

The biggest lie was actually saying that the relic questline and the zodiac braves saga is for casuals. It's not. Really.

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The "casual" reputation of the relics is probably a remnant of Zenith, which actually was easy to get. The relics as they are now require a considerable amount of dedication to complete in a timely manner. (i.e. before step nerfs or complete loss of practical relevancy like what Zenith/Atma/Animus are now.)

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

The biggest lie was actually saying that the relic questline and the zodiac braves saga is for casuals. It's not. Really.

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Depends on your definition of "Casual"

To me that's grinding out 1 drop a day or up to a maximum of 3 hours and trying again the next day. 1-2 Atma a day, or no more than 3 hours maximum, half a book a day. 3 alexandrites tops per day and slowly crafting / buying gear to Spiritbond with for an hour a day. Grinding out 50 light per day over the course of how I spend my day. I view that as pretty slow-paced and casual compared to those willing to grind out a hell-of-a-lot more. (Though I admit the only part I did grind out was the lights.)

Of course to those who can only play maybe 2 hours at most, it will be even slower than my pace but it certainly does seem "Casual" when you think about it.

tell this to my friend that can play 2-3 hours and still looking for him first atma after 2 month at try.

the relic is not casual... people use casual and hardcore terms soo badly now. Casual is something easy going that can be done in a few hours, since player aimed will play 1-3 hours max a few day per weeks.
hardcore content are something long that will recquire dedication and time for be completed. we talk of stuff generally taking more of 200-300 hours for be done (the relic it's far over this point already)

today people use casual for easy content and hardcore for hard content... seriously people use the terms correctly. the relic is not casual, is clearly intended for the hardcore gamer, for give them something to do outside the raid and make them help new player. sadly, most of the hardcore gamer are not willing to help new player, if they do this sort of content, they will create group full of hardcore for speedrun the content. SE did miss the goal soo badly with this step.

why not make true questline like we had for the first step. indeed hardcore did do it in no time, but.... can you really believe today that any content can't be destroyed by the hardcore gamer? can you really be naive at this point to think that player that can spend more of 70 hours per week into a game can't destroy any challenge you gonna offer them?

ps: the worst, it's the fact that still today (they said that it will change with heavenward) the majority of the player (called today midcore) are simply ignored... it's crazy... it's madness!!!

I'd call something "casual" that can be completed relatively quick in a week or two. The relic quest line, however, is anything but casual. It's casual in the sense that, you can still achieve your desired relic, but the amount it takes depends entirely on how much free time this casual has, or how lucky they are with RNG, as to how quick they could finish.

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Originally Posted by Merylx

I'd call something "casual" that can be completed relatively quick in a week or two. The relic quest line, however, is anything but casual. It's casual in the sense that, you can still achieve your desired relic, but the amount it takes depends entirely on how much free time this casual has, or how lucky they are with RNG, as to how quick they could finish.

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i beg to differ my dear sir, did you try to do some math about the time recquire for the relic? i will only take 1 step.... nexxus....can you still look at this whole playerbase and say it's casual? it's not because you can do it in 2-3 hours per day for the next 6 month that it's casual!

because it means this casual will do nothing else than this for the next 6 month, no roulette, no dailies tribes.... nothing else than relic!

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

tell this to my friend that can play 2-3 hours and still looking for him first atma after 2 month at try.

the relic is not casual... people use casual and hardcore terms soo badly now. Casual is something easy going that can be done in a few hours, since player aimed will play 1-3 hours max a few day per weeks.
hardcore content are something long that will recquire dedication and time for be completed. we talk of stuff generally taking more of 200-300 hours for be done (the relic it's far over this point already)

today people use casual for easy content and hardcore for hard content... seriously people use the terms correctly. the relic is not casual, is clearly intended for the hardcore gamer, for give them something to do outside the raid and make them help new player. sadly, most of the hardcore gamer are not willing to help new player, if they do this sort of content, they will create group full of hardcore for speedrun the content. SE did miss the goal soo badly with this step.

why not make true questline like we had for the first step. indeed hardcore did do it in no time, but.... can you really believe today that any content can't be destroyed by the hardcore gamer? can you really be naive at this point to think that player that can spend more of 70 hours per week into a game can't destroy any challenge you gonna offer them?

ps: the worst, it's the fact that still today (they said that it will change with heavenward) the majority of the player (called today midcore) are simply ignored... it's crazy... it's madness!!!

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Hardcore is going at it non-stop till you bleed yourself dry trying to get something.

Casual is something you spend a couple hours a day on, or even a few hours per week at max, but that's just my definition of casual and your friend certainly fits that casual criteria, it's simply bad luck that he didn't get even 1 after a couple months (especially with nerfed rates now where a person can get a whole set in under 3 hours ._. )

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Originally Posted by Merylx

I'd call something "casual" that can be completed relatively quick in a week or two. The relic quest line, however, is anything but casual. It's casual in the sense that, you can still achieve your desired relic, but the amount it takes depends entirely on how much free time this casual has, or how lucky they are with RNG, as to how quick they could finish.

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That's fair enough, my definition of Casual is something you can gradually do till it's complete without a need to rush into it and still have it done given time and patience.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

The biggest lie was actually saying that the relic questline and the zodiac braves saga is for casuals. It's not. Really.

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In terms of difficulty, it is. It's a long grind, but having to play a lot doesn't mean it's not casual. Casuals can play a lot but only for casual content. I know people who play a lot yet are casuals, and I know people who barely play a couple of hours who are more into hardcore content. The definition of casual doesn't come from the time they have to play, but how they play them.

Just going back in history when we had LAN games.
Remember Diablo2? There we had a HARDCORE mode, where you lose your character when you die ingame...
I do not say its the earliest who used "hardcore gamer" but it helped to form the definition back then!

The "need time to play" in the definition of "hardcore gamer" is based on that fact of losing all when dieing ingame. You had to start anew and all time spend with previously character is lost...
To argue with "hardcore = time you spend ingame" is prove of not knowing history, same as when saying "hardcore = difficult"

I want to shoot the person who think of this stupid idea.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

In terms of difficulty, it is. It's a long grind, but having to play a lot doesn't mean it's not casual.

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Expensive materia melds and Alexandrite disagree with you. Since when did 'casuals' have millions of gil to drop on materia for this? A 'casual' is more likely to take the far more acceptable choice of completing a few dungeons, which they'll be doing anyway for normal gear upgrades, and getting their soldiery weapon in a matter of weeks.

This is not casual friendly, and it's clearly not even aimed at casuals due to the repetitive and time consuming nature of every aspect of its design. Haven't got hours upon hours to waste on Atma grinding? Too bad. Got 11/12 atmas but can't get that last one to drop? Enjoy having 11 slots of your inventory effectively wasted while you try. Want animus? Enjoy waiting for 3 hours on a gosh-darned Fate because it refuses to spawn when you're logged in!

The very definition of the world casual means you don't have hours to spend on the game at a sitting, and when you do it's a rare and fleeting thing. I 'casually' completed my animus. Took me MONTHS. In that time I could have earned an ilvl 110 soldiery weapon four times over. Not only would it have been superior to Animus, but a lot less strenuous. I now have little interest to begin Novus because not only does it cost at least HALF the price of a soldiery weapon to begin (3x inks at 250 soldiery each), but the materia costs thereafter are in the multi-millions.

Casual players try to budget their time more effectively. There's very little 'reward' for the zodiac line and a whole lot of work. When you can get an equal or close-to reward by a far quicker and easier means, then there really is no contest.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Expensive materia melds and Alexandrite disagree with you. Since when did 'casuals' have millions of gil to drop on materia for this? A 'casual' is more likely to take the far more acceptable choice of completing a few dungeons, which they'll be doing anyway for normal gear upgrades, and getting their soldiery weapon in a matter of weeks.

This is not casual friendly, and it's clearly not even aimed at casuals due to the repetitive and time consuming nature of every aspect of its design. Haven't got hours upon hours to waste on Atma grinding? Too bad. Got 11/12 atmas but can't get that last one to drop? Enjoy having 11 slots of your inventory effectively wasted while you try. Want animus? Enjoy waiting for 3 hours on a gosh-darned Fate because it refuses to spawn when you're logged in!

The very definition of the world casual means you don't have hours to spend on the game at a sitting, and when you do it's a rare and fleeting thing. I 'casually' completed my animus. Took me MONTHS. In that time I could have earned an ilvl 110 soldiery weapon four times over. Not only would it have been superior to Animus, but a lot less strenuous. I now have little interest to begin Novus because not only does it cost at least HALF the price of a soldiery weapon to begin (3x inks at 250 soldiery each), but the materia costs thereafter are in the multi-millions.

Casual players try to budget their time more effectively. There's very little 'reward' for the zodiac line and a whole lot of work. When you can get an equal or close-to reward by a far quicker and easier means, then there really is no contest.

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Exactly this.


Anyone who thinks the relic grind is in any way casual, is completely nuts.

I love how people complain that there's no mid-range items between "casual" and "hardcore," then we have this thread complaining that what is commonly seen as casual is not casual.
Make up your minds.
Earning alexandrite in and of itself is the definition of casual. The materia melds are expensive not because of a design choice by SE, but because of market values. If you want THE BEST MOST UBER of weapons, you have to be willing to pony up the dough. However, getting materia is very easy. You can get a full set of very nice shiny materia with a decent shot at the more expensive ones if you're willing to invest the money or time.
"Casual" does not necessarily mean it can be done in a week of playing an hour a day. That's absurd for a game's endgame content. Hell that's bad business sense since if it takes a week to accomplish something, what are your casual players going to be doing the other 5-6 weeks between major content patches?
Things take time. It's a purposeful design decision to keep you paying your monthly fee. Deal with it, or quit. Time investment isn't going to change.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Expensive materia melds and Alexandrite disagree with you. Since when did 'casuals' have millions of gil to drop on materia for this? A 'casual' is more likely to take the far more acceptable choice of completing a few dungeons, which they'll be doing anyway for normal gear upgrades, and getting their soldiery weapon in a matter of weeks.

This is not casual friendly, and it's clearly not even aimed at casuals due to the repetitive and time consuming nature of every aspect of its design. Haven't got hours upon hours to waste on Atma grinding? Too bad. Got 11/12 atmas but can't get that last one to drop? Enjoy having 11 slots of your inventory effectively wasted while you try. Want animus? Enjoy waiting for 3 hours on a gosh-darned Fate because it refuses to spawn when you're logged in!

The very definition of the world casual means you don't have hours to spend on the game at a sitting, and when you do it's a rare and fleeting thing. I 'casually' completed my animus. Took me MONTHS. In that time I could have earned an ilvl 110 soldiery weapon four times over. Not only would it have been superior to Animus, but a lot less strenuous. I now have little interest to begin Novus because not only does it cost at least HALF the price of a soldiery weapon to begin (3x inks at 250 soldiery each), but the materia costs thereafter are in the multi-millions.

Casual players try to budget their time more effectively. There's very little 'reward' for the zodiac line and a whole lot of work. When you can get an equal or close-to reward by a far quicker and easier means, then there really is no contest.

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Gathering, crafting or simply SBing yourself a few items a day. People already did/do that. You make it sound as if farming gil is something hard in this game. I didn't even actively farm for gil and still had some millions, plus retainer's rng. You're confusing long time grinding associating it with not being casual, because casuals are suposed to only play 1 hour a day? the rng is there intended to not let you get your weapons in 1 day, however people who really want their relics, invest more time in it, pushing it to the limits.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

I love how people complain that there's no mid-range items between "casual" and "hardcore," then we have this thread complaining that what is commonly seen as casual is not casual.
Make up your minds.
Earning alexandrite in and of itself is the definition of casual. The materia melds are expensive not because of a design choice by SE, but because of market values. If you want THE BEST MOST UBER of weapons, you have to be willing to pony up the dough...

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Don't confuse People with People.

It's also not the "best most uber" weapon, not by a long shot especially for the novus step. You're right that this is player market driven, but obtaining the materia is rng of its own (especially if you're trying to for grade IV materia, there's no guaranteed converts for these, let alone to get one that isn't a primary stat or elemental)

What I have a problem (and probably a lot others) with is the projected time investment required for the relics versus the alternatives (which would now be ilvl115 with upgraded shiva weapons). Weapon damage is the strongest damage stat for every class (to a varying degree), and even something as easy as shiva would outdamage novus. Unfortunately I can't really see how they can change upon novus because again, it's mostly player driven in regards to price (though that can still flow into obtainin the materia and being lucky with it).

The current relic quest I don't mind so much; it gets nearly all the aspect of the game involved, it helps to know friends who can craft and desyn for you, or if you can even craft yourself (espesically at this late in the game, gearing for 3* is significantly easier now)

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

Exactly this.
Anyone who thinks the relic grind is in any way casual, is completely nuts.

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All that it requires to be "casual" is something that doesn't require a dedicated bit of time, and with that I'd say around 2-3 hours plus in a single block. The entire relic stage, even the first part up to actually getting it, doesn't require large blocks of time investment. It does require a time investment, yes, but that time investment can be made up of 20-30 minute blocks that most people can fit into their day.

Now, I wouldn't say that the relic grind is casual. It's more mid tier, especially if you want to get it at a reasonable rate, in that it requires a decent time investment and a want to work on it. You shouldn't do the relic quests for a quick and easy weapon. If you want quick and easy, that's what the Soldiery weapon is for (and eventually what the Ironworks will be for). But you can do the relic weapon casually; the more casually, though, the longer the time it will take and the longer the time it will be a subpar weapon. And you do the relic weapon because you want something to show people "this is a job I am dedicated to".

And that's it.

The problem with it really lies with the players who want to achieve BiS type weapons. The customisation of the relic makes it really appealing to those who want to maximize on their output even though the difference or a few % dps would only really affect those who are progression world first chasers (and those players have crazy commitment and dedication already). If you don't like the quests, don't do them. Use the other methods of getting gear that is more enjoyable or worth your time. You have a choice.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

You're confusing long time grinding associating it with not being casual, because casuals are suposed to only play 1 hour a day? the rng is there intended to not let you get your weapons in 1 day, however people who really want their relics, invest more time in it, pushing it to the limits.

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Being a casual player doesn't mean you want to keep playing yesterdays content. The problem this game has is that it's constantly gear-scaled. A new patch is released, a new bunch of dungeons come out and a whole new set of gear to grind up. Also, a whole new bunch of item levels required to take part.

You could 'casually' obtain Novus over the course of a year, but what would that achieve? You'd have a weapon which is not only unfinished, but completely antiquated even in its final form. Feel free to clean off the cobwebs, just don't expect it to be of much use for any of the 'current' content at that point. By which point you've already been able to obtain a nice level 110 or better weapon which does the job just fine. Ultimately you have to ask if it's worthwhile. I'd argue most would say no.

If they wanted relic to be casual friendly, they should have made the quests worth doing. People don't notice the grind when they're enjoying themselves, it's a fact. I didn't mind getting Zenith on every single class because it was varied and entertaining. I know that once I beat X mobs, kill a chimera, a hydra and three primals along with a few trades I get a shiny weapon. It has a fixed time frame I can work with, and a clear number of steps.

Moreover, each one of those steps is different and not repeated. Each boss fight has its own rules of engagement, and even a chance for loot to help your progress in future battles. It's like originality died after Zenith. It becomes a random grindfest. It's random whether you get your atma, it's random whether your Fate will spawn. It's random whether there's enough tanks and heals for your duty finder. It's random whether you can get that extra meld on your scroll. It's random if you get the item at the end of your dungeon.

...and for what? A weapon which offers NOTHING special. In fact, it's actually 5 levels LOWER than the current 'best' weapon in the game. So... why do we want this again?

I wonder what's next. FATEs, dungeons, treasure map, primals all done.
Ha, I know, you need to do coils for your next relic quest! XD

This whole relic quest is nothing but a joke, waste of time. Don't be stupid, they simply create this nonsense to keep you busy, doesn't mean you have to do it...
I know rite. You're hoping that at the end of the day you got something to show off with all your "HARDWORK". But, I doubt.

Let's hope they won't screw up the relic, even they did, no one to blame but yourself.

Relic quest, casual? Are you high!?

I think we may be in need of some player "re-definitions"...

In effect content appears in the following varieties:
Solo - Party - Alliance
Fixed Quest Objective (Brief) - Fixed Grinding (Long) - Time Gated (Often Long) - RNG (yeah, RNG)
Low Skill (Literally spam 1-2-3 easy) - Moderate Skill (Know how to properly play your class in a decent fight) - High Skill (Execute the mechanics flawlessly while playing your class to its potential)
Low Cost (Free Items, often Time Gated) - Moderate Cost (Not free, but not 100k+) - High Cost (HQ 3-4 star crafts, desynth items, and generic 100k+ requirements)

"Casuals" are people who tend to do Solo and maybe some Party content due to erratic play times. They prefer Fixed Quest Objectives, like kill this boss or clear this instance. Their content tends to be Low Skill or Moderate Skill, with the occasional High Skill check at the very end. And the quests are very often Low Cost, and usually minimally Time Gated.

"Hardcore Grinders" are people who tend to play in all 3 group sizes. They prefer Fixed Grinding, RNG, and occasionally Time Gated based progression as they have the ability to play and grind for hours on end. Their content often covers all skill ranges, with less personal emphasis on High Skill content due to burnout. And their quests can be of any cost, as they can simply grind up more money.

"Hardcore Players - emphasis on 'Play'" are people who tend to participate in mostly Party and Alliance content. They prefer Fixed Quest Objectives but requiring more skill and less grinding. Their content tends to be Moderate and often High Skill. Quests are preferably Low Cost Time Gated, within reason, or High Cost BUT SKILL BASED, such as knowing someone or being able to hammer out a 3-4 star HQ.

"Hardcore 'Casuals'" - Sounds odd right? These people enjoy challenging Solo and Party content, which is Objective Based, with minimal RNG, ideally no RNG. Quests should be at worth Time Gated, with items which are Free (but Time Gated) or obtained with Skill rather than coin.
^ This is the person who has under 100k gil, logs in to rampage through Coil, and occasionally pops on to do Dailies and gather/craft raid consumables. Honestly THIS is what most of the raiders in this game turn into once they clear the latest raid content.

So where am I going with this?
We have 4, really 3 groups that the vast majority of players fall into, and we understand that as a company, SE tries in some way to cater to each one.
The thing is, they kind of want opposing things.

The Hardcore Grinders will burn out if they need to farm a high end raid boss for hours and days on end. They prefer something easier which can be highly time or RNG gated, but mindlessly easy.

Hardcore Players like challenging fights, and a task-completion-reward based structure. Kill 10 of each of these 5 mobs. Now kill these 3 bosses. Now obtain 5 days worth of items from these dailies... Done. No real RNG to it, nor any point where the task was to grind out 2000 fates or 250 rounds of ST, or 500 generic dungeons... That is mind numbingly long!

Casuals are kind of like the Hardcore Players, but want a bit less of a challenge. At least something more forgiving. And no high end HQ crafting... Something from 2 tiers ago sure, but no bleeding edge crafting. Content should be objective based, with minimal RNG, and at most 4x as much time gating as for the Hardcore Players. So for instance a Hardcore Player could go some upgrade quest in 5 days, 1 3-star HQ, and 3 difficult bosses. While a Casual would get the same result in say 3 weeks, 10 single dungeon runs, 4 2-star HQ's, and 3-4 moderate bosses.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Being a casual player doesn't mean you want to keep playing yesterdays content. The problem this game has is that it's constantly gear-scaled. A new patch is released, a new bunch of dungeons come out and a whole new set of gear to grind up. Also, a whole new bunch of item levels required to take part.

You could 'casually' obtain Novus over the course of a year, but what would that achieve? You'd have a weapon which is not only unfinished, but completely antiquated even in its final form.

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That's the point. It's not about achievement, it's about having fun playing the game while doing it. Besides, it's an optional weapon outside raiding, and it's more than a decent weapon to clear every content, they're not gonna give it for nearly no effort. And that effort you have to put in it is in casual mode. I've made 1 Nexus and 2 extra Novus weapons. One of the Novus is nearly done, and the other one is half way, all this done with expert, trial roulettes and a random dungeon here and there. If that's not casual, you tell me what it is.

Not saying it's wrong of SE to do things like this, but they didn't think enough before doing it. I know a lot of people that quit the game or quit the whole relic weapon, just because of the amount of time you need to spend on it. As casuals (I'm one myself), they'd rather spend their few hours ingame doing something else than spend 2-3 hours on two dungeons or hours on fates WHILE also needing luck to get some progress.

Novus and Nexus were the most stupid additions, though. Novus is expensive as hell, and Nexus is done by spamming garu/shiva/ramuh HM's, cause you can finish them within two minutes with a party of full i110+.

Isn't the roulette pretty much good enough for throwing people back into old content? They should make it this way that you actually get one random dungeon, instead of currently where you would maybe get satasha 9 times and suddenly get a Sunken Temple of Qarn once.

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Originally Posted by BigPapaSmurf

Really? Because I remember practically 50+ posts and 1000+ comments of backlash lasting over a very long period of time (even beyond Atma's release) on NA Forums alone.

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Even if that hadn't been a bunch of repeats by the same posters it's still a very small % of the player base. And those threads were just as filled with people disagreeing with the complaints. Whining doesn't make you right.

I think the problem has more to do with how elite, hardcore players treat the casual players. Once again, not everyone has the same amount of time to invest as others in this game. But that shouldn't stop players from enjoying ALL of the content. I have had this game for over a year. I just finished my first ATMA upgrade about 2 months ago. I still haven't completed T-5. Why? its not because im lazy or because im incompetent, its because of the amount of time i have to put in the game. Also it sucks when you go into a fight/dungeon/instance and party wipes once and people quit. Most of the quitters...hardcore gamers who wanna rush, want people that randomly got together to be on their A game. Im sorry, i play this game for entertainment, fun, and some accomplishments. But I don't feel the need to have to go and spend time i don't have to go online, study film like im an athlete, just to play a game. That is what chases casuals away.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

That's the point. It's not about achievement, it's about having fun playing the game while doing it. Besides, it's an optional weapon outside raiding, and it's more than a decent weapon to clear every content, they're not gonna give it for nearly no effort. And that effort you have to put in it is in casual mode. I've made 1 Nexus and 2 extra Novus weapons. One of the Novus is nearly done, and the other one is half way, all this done with expert, trial roulettes and a random dungeon here and there. If that's not casual, you tell me what it is.

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Oh somebody that actually understands what I'm going on about, you don't have to commit all the time in the world to these things, just do them along with your daily things, roulettes and what-not and you'll be done at a casual, easy pace.
Since when do casuals care about what it would achieve? I for one certainly don't and yet here I am close to Excalibur / Aegis shield without having done T9 :s (though some will get their giggles making fun of me for that, I hardly care)

Stop complaining, once your finished, what do you do then? Its the last part of upgrading your weapon. It should be hard.

let's cut the chase, you have casual weapon, Gerolt masterpiece are now the casual weapon, a casual in1-2 week can get the upgraded version of it at i110.

now let's see what you need to do for get the same weapon via the ..."casual" relic:
- the whole quest with the 5 boss and amdapor (relic - i80)
- the small grind for the oil (zenith - i90)
- the FATE grind for the atma (Atma - i100 without change of stats)
- the 4500 soldiery + the 9 book (3 dungeon, 3 fate, 3 levequest and 100 monster per book) (animus - i100)
- the 75 alexandrite + materia grade 1-2-3-4, if you are extremely lucky only 75 materia needed, if you are not.... well... sorry for you (novus - i110)

all of this for get a weapon i110 when... you can simply farm a bit ST and get a i110 weapon. indeed the relic can be custom and are not over, but after you have the nexus and the zodiac.

Relic weapon was a mess! at the start the two first step was easy, why that? for allows new player to catch veteran that had relic, a lot of legacy had relic weapon!
but after this...we did get seen come some huge timesink step and the trouble is now that you have a few step, instead to really ease up the previous one and allows people to try to catch back... we leave this insanely huge timesink like it is. because don't get me wrong indeed atma can be earn faster, but it's still RNG and well you know what it means. and animus part was long because of the FATE inside the book.

all that for said that this stuff is a mess! i hope they did learn them lesson for the futur. either they slow down the speed they had new tiers (vertical progression is not very good when you bring this much content every 3 month.) or they avoid to create a weapon for the hardcore gamer! make it easy to do is not casual...

ps: and for the god sake, ignore what do the hardcore gamer, you can't make content that will keep them occuped for age it's impossible, no one before you was able to do it and no one after you will be able to do it! aim for the midcore gamer....

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Originally Posted by pRogz

Stop complaining, once your finished, what do you do then? Its the last part of upgrading your weapon. It should be hard.

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Actually this is supposedly the second-last.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

ps: and for the god sake, ignore what do the hardcore gamer, you can't make content that will keep them occuped for age it's impossible, no one before you was able to do it and no one after you will be able to do it! aim for the midcore gamer....

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Yeah ignore what hardcore gamers do by farming it for hours on end and just make it simple, farm it a couple hours at a time, like me, you'll get there eventually. Like I will, almost there!

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Originally Posted by Edeline

That's the point. It's not about achievement, it's about having fun playing the game while doing it. Besides, it's an optional weapon outside raiding, and it's more than a decent weapon to clear every content, they're not gonna give it for nearly no effort.

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Except... it's not fun. It's not even remotely enjoyable. Where's the fun in endlessly grinding materia just to blow it up in 30 seconds? Where's the fun in grinding the gil necessary to PURCHASE the items you need to spiritbond? Where's the 'fun' in staying in a zone waiting on a Fate that hasn't spawned in the last 3 hours? If you consider any of those tasks 'fun', then you have a very warped sense of taste.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

And that effort you have to put in it is in casual mode. I've made 1 Nexus and 2 extra Novus weapons. One of the Novus is nearly done, and the other one is half way, all this done with expert, trial roulettes and a random dungeon here and there. If that's not casual, you tell me what it is.

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I don't believe you. For a start, it's literally impossible to do it this way. Assuming you had three atma's weapons to begin with when the alexandrite was released and you earned your alex using dailies, you could only complete 2.8 relic weapons to Novus. So, not even three of them.

That means you've must've put in effort to earn Alexandrite in different ways. Either via hunts (presumed) or using the maps, which are purchased using additional mythology at a rate of 800 per map or 400 soldiery more recently. Now comes the materia costs. You've melded 225 to get that far. Great. Now tally up how much that cost you. If it's not gil spent buying the materia, it's gil spent buying the materials to craft the spiritbond gear. If it's not gil spent doing either, then it's TIME spent doing the lot, which is considerably less casual.

So which is it? Throw lots of gil at it or spend ages on every tiny little aspect? Neither of which is a remotely 'casual' option.

You imply that a casual approach must be gil bought. Which is simply untrue.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

You imply that a casual approach must be gil bought. Which is simply untrue.

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Read it again. I imply that a 'casual' approach requires that you EITHER spend a lot of gil or you farm literally EVERYTHING. The latter certainly doesn't sound very casual to me though, but it's fine if you don't mind waiting a year to actually finish the thing. Never mind that by then we'll have ilvl 140 weapons which are easier to obtain and more powerful to boot.

That is, of course, assuming that you're actually planning on melding anything remotely useful to your Novus. You could always stick on rubbish stats and get a weapon which is weak in both ilvl and secondaries, but surely that would defeat the purpose? Let's also not forget the 400k needed for the final step, so gil remains a factor regardless.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Read it again. I imply that a 'casual' approach requires that you EITHER spend a lot of gil or you farm literally EVERYTHING. The latter certainly doesn't sound very casual to me though, but it's fine if you don't mind waiting a year to actually finish the thing. Never mind that by then we'll have ilvl 140 weapons which are easier to obtain and more powerful to boot.

That is, of course, assuming that you're actually planning on melding anything remotely useful to your Novus. You could always stick on rubbish stats and get a weapon which is weak in both ilvl and secondaries, but surely that would defeat the purpose? Let's also not forget the 400k needed for the final step, so gil remains a factor regardless.

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You make it sound like either of those is hard for a casual..either I don't count as a casual because I can afford these easily whilst not even committing more than 3 hours a day at max on these things or you're underestimating us..or you're only speaking for yourself..

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Originally Posted by pRogz

Stop complaining, once your finished, what do you do then? Its the last part of upgrading your weapon. It should be hard.

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And thus comes the Atma styled comments.


RNG does not equate to difficulty. A factor not in your control is not RNG. Farming for drops till it drops is not difficulty.Why is not difficulty? Because it doesn't test your abilities whatsoever. All it does is ask you to conquer stuff you already did.

I dont get why people put so much incredible effort for just 1 upgrade for 1 weapon.... o.O

Im playing all classes. Playing FF14 since Release (not everyday)
I only maded 2 Zeniths so far ;o
got them AFTER the Myth cap got removed, and I already hated the effort on this Zeniths lol.. So I sticked with lv70 weapons
Later.. those UATs on Sycrus Tower(need for lv100 weapon) came -> I dropped Zeniths away -> I aimed for these lv110 weapons

While people work for just 1 upgrade for 1 weapon on Relicquest queststuff- I can finish 1 or 2 brand new games at the same time Lol...

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I don't believe you. For a start, it's literally impossible to do it this way. Assuming you had three atma's weapons to begin with when the alexandrite was released and you earned your alex using dailies, you could only complete 2.8 relic weapons to Novus. So, not even three of them.

That means you've must've put in effort to earn Alexandrite in different ways. Either via hunts (presumed) or using the maps, which are purchased using additional mythology at a rate of 800 per map or 400 soldiery more recently. Now comes the materia costs. You've melded 225 to get that far. Great. Now tally up how much that cost you. If it's not gil spent buying the materia, it's gil spent buying the materials to craft the spiritbond gear. If it's not gil spent doing either, then it's TIME spent doing the lot, which is considerably less casual.

So which is it? Throw lots of gil at it or spend ages on every tiny little aspect? Neither of which is a remotely 'casual' option.

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I meant that for Novus into Nexus transition. Also, you're taking it wrong again. You're saying hunts took effort (when someone posts you the locs and you just spend 2 mins there), or casual myth gain from frontlines. Everything about relic is casual, but doesn't mean it's not long, but if you keep thinking being casual has to do anything with time put in it, you're still wrong.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

I think the problem has more to do with how elite, hardcore players treat the casual players. Once again, not everyone has the same amount of time to invest as others in this game. But that shouldn't stop players from enjoying ALL of the content. I have had this game for over a year. I just finished my first ATMA upgrade about 2 months ago. I still haven't completed T-5. Why? its not because im lazy or because im incompetent, its because of the amount of time i have to put in the game. Also it sucks when you go into a fight/dungeon/instance and party wipes once and people quit. Most of the quitters...hardcore gamers who wanna rush, want people that randomly got together to be on their A game. Im sorry, i play this game for entertainment, fun, and some accomplishments. But I don't feel the need to have to go and spend time i don't have to go online, study film like im an athlete, just to play a game. That is what chases casuals away.

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So much truth in it.

well now you know what some of us felt when trying to do atma quests, doing 100x of fates and get nothing, yep zero, for days in a row...If you were part of the people that were telling us to deal with it, which of course you arent I have no doubts about it, I would tell you that I am happy that you have a taste of the same bitter medicine I took for weeks in a row without getting anything...

You all wanted time sink, you all wanted some challenging stuff, this is challenging, it challenges persistant and patience....isnt that what you wanted?..

Mei