Bard needs some love too.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W54...ature=youtu.be

When they beat T13 bard had the highest dps

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Actually, the parser in the video's broken. It's stuck at 56 seconds.

Bard is fine.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Actually, the parser in the video's broken. It's stuck at 56 seconds.

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Why did you tell her xD Like if i pop a screen of the parse when all cd's are up the Bard should be like 600 dps. But that Bard can dream of having that dps by the end of the fight lol

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Nonsense etc.

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Nobody said positionals were hard. However when you have to deal with the least amount of mechanics compared to every other class in every other fight...yeah you have it easy.

"I want to stroke my epeen by seeing a bigger number. I want other people to see me higher on the aggro meter. I want all the utility of a bard with the damage of a NIN."

http://31.media.tumblr.com/863f01cda...d4flo2_500.gif

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Originally Posted by WinterSolstice

Nobody said positionals were hard. However when you have to deal with the least amount of mechanics compared to every other class in every other fight...yeah you have it easy.

"I want to stroke my epeen by seeing a bigger number. I want other people to see me higher on the aggro meter. I want all the utility of a bard with the damage of a NIN."

http://31.media.tumblr.com/863f01cda...d4flo2_500.gif

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Tell me what do you know about dealing with mechanics? Because your lodestone says you have like barely no experience in raid. If you knew anything about raids you wouldn't say that we have to deal with less mechanics when it's almost always Bards being asigned to deal with most of them lol.

And stuff like t11 even forces us to be in melee range to even be able to hit and that disables our ability to use repelling shot and that's another loss of dps.

I knew this was coming once the dragoon buff was confirmed. Oh they're buffing one class so why not mine? I think bards are perfectly fine where they are just based on utility alone. They are a mainstay in any progression group. Sure their damage is lower than a melee class that knows what their doing, but those classes don't provide the same level of utility as bards. Basically if you want to put out max damage just play another class. If want to do damage, be the most mobile dps, as well as provide support based on situation, stick to being a bard. I do agree with you that they could remove the cast time on songs though or at least shorten them if they don't want to remove the aesthetics of singing completely.

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Originally Posted by WinterSolstice

Nobody said positionals were hard. However when you have to deal with the least amount of mechanics compared to every other class in every other fight...yeah you have it easy.

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I don't quite understand how you think BRD deals with the least amount of mechanics, just because they can attack and move at the same time doesn't mean it's ideal, bard loses its auto-attack damage while not facing the monsters. At the end of the day bards still have to move out of the shit, they just get to keep pressing buttons while they do it.

Also, in my experience BRD usually gets stuck doing silences and dealing with mechanics that require lots of movement while others get to just keep doing what they're doing. Essentially bard is the go to guy for pretty much any mechanics that don't require an entire party to handle.

While I don't agree that bard needs a strict DPS increase, something like increasing dps by a small percentage when you haven't been moving for say.. 5 seconds, would be a nice touch considering every other DPS class is getting buffed and so far bard has only received nerfs. The fact is in the numbers, on average a good nin or mnk will be 100-150 dps higher, a good blm, smn or drg will be 75-100 dps higher. The gap increases further when bards actually have to play a song besides Foes.

Yes, it's an easy class to play but 100 dps is a large gap in this game and a buff that's only active a fraction of the time isn't going to close that gap, it will only make it slightly smaller.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

I knew this was coming once the dragoon buff was confirmed. Oh they're buffing one class so why not mine? I think bards are perfectly fine where they are just based on utility alone. They are a mainstay in any progression group. Sure their damage is lower than a melee class that knows what their doing, but those classes don't provide the same level of utility as bards. Basically if you want to put out max damage just play another class. If want to do damage, be the most mobile dps, as well as provide support based on situation, stick to being a bard. I do agree with you that they could remove the cast time on songs though or at least shorten them if they don't want to remove the aesthetics of singing completely.

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I'm fine with melee having more dps, but the gap is getting bigger and bigger so that's why atleast i ask for the removal of the damage penalty or a passive buff when not moving. I don't think that's so game breaking imo.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

I'm fine with melee having more dps, but the gap is getting bigger and bigger so that's why atleast i ask for the removal of the damage penalty or a passive buff when not moving. I don't think that's so game breaking imo.

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Removing the damage penalty is asking too much since bards could just sing liberally. You'd could just have two bards rotating a combo of mage's ballad/foe's req through the whole fight with minimal consequence. A passive buff for not nothing moving though seems like a feasible idea but then the people who love bards mobility would be turned off.

I feel that bards are fine as well; All things considered the damage difference at the end isn't that big to justify a buff. Naturally we should be doing less potential damage due to having full mobility, but not enough that you'd get benched in favor of a dps more capable (and I'm talking to the point that the situational songs won't make up for it)

..but I still wouldn't mind a redo on the class aesthetically and to have an actual focus on being a bard, rather than a archer that knows some songs.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

I'm fine with melee having more dps, but the gap is getting bigger and bigger so that's why atleast i ask for the removal of the damage penalty or a passive buff when not moving. I don't think that's so game breaking imo.

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People want bigger numbers, getting closer to other classes' dps but not thinking on their own class utility. Why having different classes then? just make 1 class that can use all the weapons doing the same damage with all of them now that we're at it!

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

I'm fine with melee having more dps, but the gap is getting bigger and bigger so that's why atleast i ask for the removal of the damage penalty or a passive buff when not moving. I don't think that's so game breaking imo.

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Bigger and bigger? The class setting the bar (MNK) hasn't changed.

To start with you could just do something like only one Song works at the same time. And even then i don't know what would be so game breaking about having requiem for a long time with that Bard combo. It wouldn't last forever and it's only 10%. Drg does the same for us and it's up all the time.

It is bigger because the gear scaling is not the same for us than it is for a Monk. Also all jobs get reworks and buffs and all we got since release was less.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I feel that bards are fine as well; All things considered the damage difference at the end isn't that big to justify a buff. Naturally we should be doing less potential damage due to having full mobility, but not enough that you'd get benched in favor of a dps more capable (and I'm talking to the point that the situational songs won't make up for it)

..but I still wouldn't mind a redo on the class aesthetically and to have an actual focus on being a bard, rather than a archer that knows some songs.

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Agree! Wish they made it:
Class > Archer
Job > Ranger

and introduce BRD as a support later in the game. Feels weird shooting arrows & singing :P

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Originally Posted by Edeline

People want bigger numbers, getting closer to other classes' dps but not thinking on their own class utility. Why having different classes then? just make 1 class that can use all the weapons doing the same damage with all of them now that we're at it!

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We are dps jobs. If they are not around the same dps then they are not balanced and that's why DRG is getting even more buffs.

You're saying bards can't repelling shot in T11 cause of mechanics?
No, you can use any of your skills. Even I repell shot and still manage to make it back in time for Nerve Gas.


Bards are perfectly fine; you're probably just playing the Class wrong if your dps is super low.

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Originally Posted by UltimateAoe2

You're saying bards can't repelling shot in T11 cause of mechanics?
No, you can use any of your skills. Even I repell shot and still manage to make it back in time for Nerve Gas.


Bards are perfectly fine; you're probably just playing the Class wrong if your dps is super low.

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I don't know if you are a troll or another guy of the many that can't read. But it seems that not being able to read isn't that rare this days.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

We are dps jobs. If they are not around the same dps then they are not balanced and that's why DRG is getting even more buffs.

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DRG is being buffed because it brings with it zero utility. It's pure DPS, which means it needs to be competitive as a pure DPS.

BRD is so much more than that.

Get friendly with a drg o/

Why do you think blms can't move while casting? procs aside.

ranged + mobility can only be balanced by lower damage.

But in a played out fight bard numbers actually tend to look pretty impressive in merged parses ( which are terribly flawed anyway )

Also any downtime periods suits bards more than any other class since we got 5 buffs to come off cooldown. Static dps on a dummy isn't everything xD

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

To start with you could just do something like only one Song works at the same time. And even then i don't know what would be so game breaking about having requiem for a long time with that Bard combo. It wouldn't last forever and it's only 10%. Drg does the same for us and it's up all the time.

It is bigger because the gear scaling is not the same for us than it is for a Monk. Also all jobs get reworks and buffs and all we got since release was less.

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10% damage increase for blm for nearly half of the fight is a pretty nice dps boost. A 10% damage increase for blm is more than 10% damage increase for a bard. Even better if you stacked blms. Not only that you could just rotate mage's ballad whenever and easily recover the healers mp while only losing those two seconds of damage while singing. Therefore making relatively easier to recover after multiple deaths. Like me and a bunch of others said, bard is fine where they are at since pretty much every progression group has at least one which is more than you can say about smn or drg. If you don't like the damage they put out, play another class. Its really that simple. As long they're viable in any progression group, I don't see any reason to change their damage output.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Actually, the parser in the video's broken. It's stuck at 56 seconds.

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oh okay, my bad then!

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

10% damage increase for blm for nearly half of the fight is a pretty nice dps boost. A 10% damage increase for blm is more than 10% damage increase for a bard. Even better if you stacked blms. Not only that you could just rotate mage's ballad whenever and easily recover the healers mp while only losing those two seconds of damage while singing. .

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It wouldn't be better than stacking 2 monks and it wouldn't require to have a 2 Bards 2 BLM set up. Also there's no way the requiem being up that time would be better than DRG buff being up like 90% of the fight for only one blm.

If people are dying to the point that heals really need a ballad spam you will end up wiping to enrage so that's pointless.

Monks dps is broken as hell and i din't see this many people complaining about it.

Like you can easily see it when groups have hard times doing dps checks they just trow in some extra Monks lol.

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Originally Posted by Levis

Agree! Wish they made it:
Class > Archer
Job > Ranger

and introduce BRD as a support later in the game. Feels weird shooting arrows & singing :P

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It's not even that...you already have a song as an archer. I feel "unbardish" by the time I did get my job advancement. Doesn't help either that your level 40 quest awards Rain of Death which feels more like an archer skill than anything

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

It wouldn't be better than stacking 2 monks and it wouldn't require to have a 2 Bards 2 BLM set up. Also there's no way the requiem being up that time would be better than DRG buff being up like 90% of the fight for only one blm.

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It depend on the fight, for instance in turn 11. It might be a little easier for some group to complete turn 11 without having to worry about monks killing each other when tethered because they're doing their positional. Also adds would melt much easier with this set up. Blms put a hell of a lot of damage if played correctly especially if foe's is running for awhile. Oh and don't forget you get about 4 battle voices a fight which boosts their dps by 20%. Blm's are pretty high up there on the dps chart and with the boost of longer lasting foe's paired with ballad as well an extra fire cast when ballad is running. They could perhaps be on par or succeed monk damage. Someone would have to test that but you can totally see the possibilities. Right now songs are more situational which I think is for the best, otherwise songs with no damage penalty would require way less thinking. Not to mention groups would probably force their bards to always have X-ethers on them so they can keep their songs running.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

It depend on the fight, for instance in turn 11. It might be a little easier for some group to complete turn 11 without having to worry about monks killing each other when tethered because they're doing their positional. Also adds would melt much easier with this set up. Blms put a hell of a lot of damage if played correctly especially if foe's is running for awhile. Oh and don't forget you get about 4 battle voices a fight which boosts their dps by 20%. Blm's are pretty high up there on the dps chart and with the boost of longer lasting foe's paired with ballad as well an extra fire cast when ballad is running. They could perhaps be on par or succeed monk damage. Someone would have to test that but you can totally see the possibilities. Right now songs are more situational which I think is for the best, otherwise songs with no damage penalty would require way less thinking. Not to mention groups would probably force their bards to always have X-ethers on them so they can keep their songs running.

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rofl lets balance bards around 2 tank 2 healer 2 blm 2 brd setup.........thats retarded...

OP u arent going to get support here because :

1: ppl thin brds are support 1 and dps second
2: ppl think u want brd to bet top dps (u just want a buff to close the gap and yeah its getting worse with every patch new gear new weapons lolBow-weapondmg)
3: just want to troll

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

I do agree on making songs ogcd though. That can get annoying when it comes to turning on and off songs >_<

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This QoL improvement please.

They can keep the 3.0s cast time but at least allow me NOT to need to wait for the GCD timer to reset before being able to turn it off? Pretty annoying and waste of GCD time :(

As for damage wise, I think allowing DEX to scale better with weapon damage maybe. Compared to how per point of main stat increases DPS (with enough weapon damage) for jobs like MNK/BLM, DEX is quite a joke. I have done a test with my FC mate, him at IL116 and me at IL106 but I have a higher stacking of Determination (say 40 points higher) and we did a few parses in succession, and we parsed the same. I have asked him to strip down his IL116 gears to the same as what I was wearing (we have the same crafted gears) and test again to ensure that it is not a matter of differences in skill, his parse number is still the same with his IL106 gear.

At current SCoB gears of IL110 with IL115, increasing DEX stats doesn't show a reasonable increase in DPS for us BRDs. We could only raise the ceiling by raising WD (by obtaining IL120/IL130 Ironworks weapon), but again the increment isn't that much either.

Do note that this is not a call for a buff like buffing the potency of the attacks. It is just that personally I felt that the the scaling for BRDs is pretty bad. Back than in 2.0-2.1 with IL90 gears, the difference between a MNK and BRD wasn't that great. I don't think it was a 100DPS difference. But right now we can see that Lucrezia's MNK can push to the edge of 600DPS while I don't think I've seen a 500+ DPS BRD even with DRG debuff available. That's how much other DPS jobs are running away. I think at the very least, maintain the level of gap. I won't be surprised if by the next few months when MNKs can get their ultimate weapon (probably the relic's final form at IL135) with BiS 130 gears, MNKs could push to 700DPS on dummy while BRDs are just scratching over 500.

I just want to beable to become a Bard and still use moves like Fracture why lock so many cross skills out?

I'll take some bard buffs. Not like I need them, but I'll take them!

I didn't read most of the replies since most were like na bro bard is fine...


GET A FREAKIN CLUE, Bard is not fine, since its not BARD.

Go play any other mmo that has bard and tell me its fine... seriously, we are so far behind what a bard should be its pathetic at best.

I don't give a crap about the amount of dps we pull but I do give a crap about our incredibly shitty song selection/reason to use said song

whats the point of a movement boost if it drops every bloody time I move zones or go into combat, the purpose of the song is to keep me and others far more mobile during the damn fight, lets face it, SE watched the John Travolta movie and figured bards fitted into that category, want proof, look at the majority of our armor looks. It is all 70s based.

As someone who mains bard I can say that no, bards do not need a buff. They are good as is. A lot of it comes down to knowing how to play. I have been parsed by friends and have outdsped higher geared bards(by a few points)(and I don't actually have b4b while the other one had)(and from what I've been told my dps was 400+ and I was being lazy without keeping straight shot up all the time). And the only person that seems to outdps me in fights is our monk. Other bard and drg tend to be about even behind us. It's all about knowing your job and how to play it. Understanding the encounter helps as well. I have yet to have any problems with my damage - what I did have a problem for a long time was thinking that I was underperforming which probably led me to try and improve myself and get a better understanding of my job.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Removing the damage penalty is asking too much since bards could just sing liberally. You'd could just have two bards rotating a combo of mage's ballad/foe's req through the whole fight with minimal consequence. A passive buff for not nothing moving though seems like a feasible idea but then the people who love bards mobility would be turned off.

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WAR
PLD
WHM
SCH
BRD
BRD
Caster
Melee

Infinite Ballad, Infinite Foe's, much damage.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

As someone who mains bard I can say that no, bards do not need a buff. They are good as is. A lot of it comes down to knowing how to play. I have been parsed by friends and have outdsped higher geared bards(by a few points)(and I don't actually have b4b while the other one had)(and from what I've been told my dps was 400+ and I was being lazy without keeping straight shot up all the time). And the only person that seems to outdps me in fights is our monk. Other bard and drg tend to be about even behind us. It's all about knowing your job and how to play it. Understanding the encounter helps as well. I have yet to have any problems with my damage - what I did have a problem for a long time was thinking that I was underperforming which probably led me to try and improve myself and get a better understanding of my job.

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error 404 logic not found :rolleyes:

give me a stance that boost dmg by 20% but heavy shot / S-shot have 2.5 cast time...and unable to cast songs....call it Ranger stance :)

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

error 404 logic not found

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Just my personal experience. Never had anyone complain about my DPS - it was always where it needed to be. Infact even when I was doubting my own performance a lot of the time I was asked to join for stuff and people kept telling me I'm doing fine.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Just my personal experience. Never had anyone complain about my DPS - it was always where it needed to be. Infact even when I was doubting my own performance a lot of the time I was asked to join for stuff and people kept telling me I'm doing fine.

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Bard shouldn't be about the dps but the stuff they bring to the party, right now we aren't bringing shit but dps....oh the songs are soo needed in certain fights...hooray...certain fights.

Bard should be the most sought after class for bringing benefits to the group other than DPS. So we can move around and still do dps...so can everyone else, they just refuse to move and insist the healer heal through the damage.

Bard needs more actual utility, haste song for all classes to cast faster, run song to not cut off during fights and zoning, heal over time song (yes I know people argue there wont be a need for healers, Eos has said the same damn thing)
More debuff abilities to the enemy, slow their asses down, reduce their heals, things like that. Bards should be able to juggle more songs than just 1 per time (consider old eq) And most importantly, bards should not look like they raided John Travolta's wardrobe from the 70s. (bards are traveling story tellers, apparently im suppose to travel in disco clothing because that's functional.)

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Originally Posted by PureEclipse

Bard shouldn't be about the dps but the stuff they bring to the party, right now we aren't bringing shit but dps....oh the songs are soo needed in certain fights...hooray...certain fights.

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Face it... this game is about DSP, Healer and Tank checks and team coordination. Not about support. We probably have the most utility out of all the other jobs. Problem is 90% of the bards just go pew pew and ignore the rest(even I was like that at one point). I see a DPS check and we have BLM/SMNs pop Foe, we've been fighting for a while, I already used up two or 3 invigorates myself I'll pop army's for a few seconds to help out everyone with some TP regen. I see healers hitting 50% mp - I'll pop a mage's. Also you need to be familiar with the encounter to know when you can safely do a 4s cast of a song(hint don't do it when shriek is about to go off and you are not yet in position).


We have a few benefits over the other jobs one of them is there is no rotation to mess up as such so we can pay more attention to our surroundings and call out things that are needed. We are not up close and personal to mobs so we actually see the whole area more easily.

They intentionally didn't give bards all the utility... you have fey glow and ugh fey light(I HATE YOU SKILLSPEED I HATE YOU SOOOOO MUCH) from Selene so SCH has utility there. The way support is done it is spread about through all jobs - this is a good thing.

I do think a high(because we lack mind so would need to compensate for that) potency HoTs song would work as well - though I find it hard to place anywhere in the current fights... the damage output usually requires a full blown aoe heal or aoe heal+shields.

As for debuffs I'd like to see flame arrow have a slow effect(need to be careful when moving in fire afterall). I'd also like to see repelling shot have an enmity reduction element in there(something I can use just after the opener to help out the tank more because even with quelling strikes I have pulled enmity in certain fights due to mechanics or what not).

And in case you haven't noticed bards often always have atleast one spot in most PFs - I've personaly been asked a few times to help out with stuff because people were missing a bard. Is bard a requirement NO not at all(AND THIS IS A GOOD THING). But people like having a bard around for the what if moments and so on. And since we can output respectable DPS we have that as a benefit as well. And a bard LB3 has saved a wipe or few before as well.

Think of bard utility beyond the skills you have but also what you bring to the run as a highly mobile, not easy to mess up job that can do a lot more than just DPS. If you think of utility only in terms of the skills though then yeah could use a few more.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I would like to see damage numbers for a Bard on turret duty for T8.

No Towers, no homing, no Brainjack, no songs.

Then you can compare those numbers to MNK/BLM on turret duty.

Wouldn't be surprised if BRD could do 450+ without offering any support.

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No Bard can do 450. Unless they have grear greater than 115.

Bard loses next to no dps handling brain jack and homing missile. And singing just knocks it down maybe 10-20 depending on how long they sing.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

No Bard can do 450. Unless they have grear greater than 115.

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I have reports of 420 or so.

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Bard loses next to no dps handling brain jack and homing missile. And singing just knocks it down maybe 10-20 depending on how long they sing.

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Yup that is a benefit to bards and direct utility.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

No Bard can do 450. Unless they have grear greater than 115.

Bard loses next to no dps handling brain jack and homing missile. And singing just knocks it down maybe 10-20 depending on how long they sing.

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Things have changed a little though. Before 2.4, 450 is possible with a slave bard for songs and DRG debuff.

Right now with crafted IL110 gears you can stack secondary stats to a new level we have never seen before - without any of the IL120/IL130 gears me and my another FC bard have managed to sustain at 430-440 on average on dummy, without DRG debuff. With DRG debuff it will be even easier.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

I have reports of 420 or so.


Yup that is a benefit to bards and direct utility.

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420 is already exceptionally high. You're not going to see higher than that without better gear. (that includes melding 110 to make it better)

Zzzz i wake up and now this is full of nonsense. Like if i care if people pull high dps on dummy, you don't balance the game around dummy or a lazy Bard that doesn't have bfb and doesn't keep straight shot up but thinks hes doing fine because the people in his group are even worst than that.

People that still haven't beat the second coil telling me that we are there only to support when in the new content everyone needs high dps or you will wipe to enrage.
People telling me that i can repelling shot in t11 thinking i speak about nerve gas and they clearly ignored my post and don't know about the mechanic of having to be close to the boss to remove the invulnerability buff.
People telling me that less Melee would be easier for people in t11 because they asume the melee will derp and wipe doing pos attack, and it's actually better to have melee because Mages are not that good for the add phase.

Our gear scales like really bad, our weapon damage is a joke. Make some research Bard is not fine, people think it is because of our Songs but i don't know what's so hard to understand that we are a dps, not a healer or a support job.


To put it simple if Nin had the option to give mana we wouldn't have any place in raids. And in the future this might happen because Nin brings good utility and good damage, and ballad isn't not that important if people are not diying a lot.