Positional Requirements for Melee DPS

It's like saying I'm a vegetarian but I don't like leafy veges and tomatoes.

If you truly want to play melee dps and are looking for the class that has the least amount of positioning requirements, then play DRG. They do have 2 abilities that require positions, but they are BOTH either standalone abilites (heavy thrust) or at the beginning of a combo string (Impulse Drive), making it more forgiving if you miss the positioning.

Many people miss it, but the disembowel and chaos thrust abilities can be used from anywhere, but in order to get their bonuses, impulse drive must hit from behind. So that's it, just 2 positional requirements.

Compare this to the 5+ abilities for monk and the 3 for rogue/ninja. What makes rogue/ninja harder is that the positioning ability is at the end of a 3 hit combo so missing it sucks. It is worth noting that having a warrior tank removes the need to ever even perform this combo so there are ways around it.

Point is, there is an easier option if you do not like the positioning requirements for melee dps. Take DRG

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

If you truly want to play melee dps and are looking for the class that has the least amount of positioning requirements, then play DRG. They do have 2 abilities that require positions, but they are BOTH either standalone abilites (heavy thrust) or at the beginning of a combo string (Impulse Drive), making it more forgiving if you miss the positioning.

Many people miss it, but the disembowel and chaos thrust abilities can be used from anywhere, but in order to get their bonuses, impulse drive must hit from behind. So that's it, just 2 positional requirements.

Compare this to the 5+ abilities for monk and the 3 for rogue/ninja. What makes rogue/ninja harder is that the positioning ability is at the end of a 3 hit combo so missing it sucks. It is worth noting that having a warrior tank removes the need to ever even perform this combo so there are ways around it.

Point is, there is an easier option if you do not like the positioning requirements for melee dps. Take DRG

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But you do realize that missing the position on a Monk still progresses the stance, so all you lose is some potency, while missing the positional on a DRG means you'll have to re-apply the very same move over and over until you land it from the required position. This totally screws your rotation. While a DRG may have less positional requirements (speaking of the number of skills with pos req), those requirements are actually less forgiving compared to a Monk.

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Originally Posted by Vodomir

But you do realize that missing the position on a Monk still progresses the stance, so all you lose is some potency, while missing the positional on a DRG means you'll have to re-apply the very same move over and over until you land it from the required position. This totally screws your rotation. While a DRG may have less positional requirements (speaking of the number of skills with pos req), those requirements are actually less forgiving compared to a Monk.

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I will add to this, that IMO, having a positional at the start of combo is more difficult than one at the end. This is because it is typically the opener (in our case, HT), which means the mob is not yet "set". There's always an instance where I attack thinking that the tank has already moved the mob to a position, only to see it turn and I end up missing the side. On the other hand, i rarely miss Impulse Drive. I typically go with HT-> Phlebotomize as a starter before I go with my ID->CT combo. This means that, after positioning for HT, hitting it with Phle (and possibly using Off GCD moves in between), by the time I need to start ID-> CT combo...I am 99% sure that this mob is facing the correct way.

Since ID is also a rear positional attack (where a DRG spends majority of the time anyway), it makes the odds of missing it even lower.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

Point is, there is an easier option if you do not like the positioning requirements for melee dps. Take DRG

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Genuinely have to disagree with this. NIN has the least amount of positioning.
TA and SA are mutually exclusive, you pick either SA or TA and in groups this will always be TA. Secondly, its oGCD and sits on a long 60 sec CD, so you use it once and then forget about it for a minute.

Leaving pretty much only one single positional in NINs main rotation, Dancing Edge, duration 20 secs, which you might not even have to use if a warrior (or another NIN) does it for you.
DRG on the other hand does HT every 20 sec and ID every 30 secs, even ignoring that missing ID makes you lose access to Dis and CT as well, while missing DE on NIN only makes you lose DE itself.

Now to compare, NIN 1 rear every 60 sec and 1 (semi optional) flank every 20 sec vs DRG 1 rear every 30 sec and 1 (non optional) flank every 20 sec.

So NIN definitely has less/easier positioning.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Well, there was a distinction in MMOs that classes with positional requirements required more skill to play. You'd have people that liked that sort of thing play those classes while people who didn't like positional requirements had the option to play melee DPS that didn't have positional requirements, offering a little bit more utility in exchange for not having that edge in DPS.

In FFXIV no such thing exists because all melee DPS classes have positional requirements. I'm not too keen on them half because none of the weapons insterest me (fists, spears and daggers don't do anything for me) and half because I know I would have trouble in serious content between keeping a rotation going AND watching out for stuff. I didn't realize how easy DPS can tunnel vision in this game to the point they miss mechanics until I leveled MNK and DRG to 50.

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Ideally there would be a melee DPS without positional requirements that trades DPS for utility and ease of use like a melee version of the BRD.

*cough* RDM *cough*


On topic, I feel the positional requirements are a little too strict and wish the game gave you a little more leeway when determining a side/back hit, especially on targets in motion.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Ideally there would be a melee DPS without positional requirements that trades DPS for utility and ease of use like a melee version of the BRD.

*cough* RDM *cough*


On topic, I feel the positional requirements are a little too strict and wish the game gave you a little more leeway when determining a side/back hit, especially on targets in motion.

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Part of a good tank is how to hold aggro without moving around too much or "flinching" aka moving left and right just for that additional (and illusional) 1 second more delay on boss autoattacks just for the ZOMG heals to come in.

Only exception is the spinning tank tactic in Hydra ages ago... God that's a nightmare for melee

The reason nin doest have that many positionals is because it would be dumb to have as many as mnk while having to do mudras every 20 seconds and being able to mess those up as well.

Also, drg missing positionals is a harsher penalty than mnk.

Mnk only looses ppotency/damage. Drg has to redo combo which is a bigger dps loss and waste of tp.

Both are difficult/easy in their respects.

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

Only exception is the spinning tank tactic in Hydra ages ago... God that's a nightmare for melee

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What...what was this "spinning tank" tactic in hydra? It sounds pretty funny lol.

hey those tomatoes make my fingers all sticky.

For those people who like the positional requirements, can you explain why you find it fun?

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

For those people who like the positional requirements, can you explain why you find it fun?

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I main DRG, and part of the reason I chose it was it has less positional requirements than MNK. From Titan HM on, the EX trials and Coil have so much going on that at times it is difficult to maintain position + maintaining rotation + being aware of what's going on around you.

I'm trying out NIN, just to see if I enjoy it (i think they only have one positionals, and even that is situational).

That said, some positional is not too bad IMO, as it breaks the monotony of just standing in one spot and just DPSing.

Positional requirements CAN help avoid boredom in fights, but I found that MNK just had too many of them. It was fun to dance around at first, but there are times when I'd like to not HAVE to dance and still do great DPS. DRG has less positional requirements, but it plays mind-numbingly slow in my opinion. So far NIN is a great fit for me :-)

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

For those people who like the positional requirements, can you explain why you find it fun?

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Because it is challenged, different and unique. What is so fun about standing in one place and smash the button like the Magic class or Bard. To maximize the DPS number, as a melee, one must only has to know well, like the back of his hand, his rotation, but also know the mechanics of the fight, the habits of the tank, what to expect and in which way the boss will turn to, etc...and much more others As for MNK, is how to not losing stack as much as possible in the fight. As for Dragoon, is how to use jump skills efficiently to disengage-engage the fight without losing too much time for gap closing and DPS. All of these are what makes playing a Melee class much much more fun.

I started as SMN but I ended up maiming MNK/Dragoon, just because of those positional requirements skill. And it is no wonder why a large portion of people don't understand why the melee class are fun to play, because they don't want things to be challenged, much like, in real life, one question why people would risk their life to climb up the mountains, or to explore those undiscovered lands. Only the same thinking minds can understand why :)

For me, I don't find the positional system to be challenging. I find it tedious, and I feel like they could do the mechanics in a different way to make Monk more fun to play.

I don't mind complexity, I just don't find what is currently in place as fun.

You just need more practices, my friend.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

You just need more practices, my friend.

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...I would laugh, but I think you're being serious.

I love the positional requirements for DRG because it requires me to be constantly active and paying attention to what's going on in the fight rather than just facerolling the keyboard. I find tanking and healing to be incredibly boring, personally. The dance-party-like fights are my absolute favorite kind-- you really have to know the mechanics and your own rotation and be able to anticipate and react to things very quickly.

Otherwise it would just be "park yourself on the boss' flank/backside and just whack it."

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

...I would laugh, but I think you're being serious.

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Yes, I was serious. All skills need practices,whether tank, DpS or healer, whether being melee or range, all comes down to practices. It is just a matter of one need more practices than the others. In the case of Melee, like I said in my previous post, practices, practices and keep practicing to the point you can execute without even think about it. Most of good melee DPSers, they don't think about when, how, where to excute their combo, they just do it naturally, in a correct way. It seems hard at first, I admit, but only with practices, you can make it looks like a joke. That is why a professional can make their jobs look so easily in the eye of amateurs but once the amateurs actually do it, it is hard.

Since you didn't understand what I was saying let me try a different way.


I don't need practice. The positional mechanic bores and annoys me.

Why are you bored and annoyed? In what aspect that it bores you and annoys you? Why are you so sure you won't need practice? What class you play as Melee? And how long have you been playing it? Have you tried the end game contents with the class? Do you find it is hard to perfectly execute your combo while dealing with mechanics? Do you still need to look at your button and check what skill need to be used next?

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

Since you didn't understand what I was saying let me try a different way.


I don't need practice. The positional mechanic bores and annoys me.

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Couldn't agree more. I am very happy that postional requirements are kept at an absolute minimum with ninja.

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

For those people who like the positional requirements, can you explain why you find it fun?

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I find the positional requirements are challenging. I like to know that I can out DPS someone who is better geared than me if I can keep my rotation straight. I makes me want to get better at my rotation because I can be out DPSed by someone not as geared as me.

I played a rogue in WoW for over 6 years from BETA on and it has minimal positional requirements (behind only if using daggers but can spec swords if u want to position anywhere). Now, I haven't played in quite some time but I found the bosses there were much easier than FFXIV. Maybe it is the positional requirements and complexities of certain fights, maybe I am still new to the game (just hit 90 days) and will find the requirements boring, as you do, as I get more experience. Specifically I like moving during the fight because it keeps me sharp and I feel more involved in the fight. I have to watch what the boss is doing instead of reclining and mashing the same 5 buttons over and over.

For now I am enjoying the hell out of this game because I no longer have the time to commit to it like I did when playing WoW. I do find the ability to gear up is quite easy and this worries me for my long term enjoyment of the game though.

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

I main DRG, and part of the reason I chose it was it has less positional requirements than MNK. From Titan HM on, the EX trials and Coil have so much going on that at times it is difficult to maintain position + maintaining rotation + being aware of what's going on around you.

I'm trying out NIN, just to see if I enjoy it (i think they only have one positionals, and even that is situational).

That said, some positional is not too bad IMO, as it breaks the monotony of just standing in one spot and just DPSing.

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Monks have no positional requirements -- only positional bonuses.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

Why are you bored and annoyed? In what aspect that it bores you and annoys you? Why are you so sure you won't need practice? What class you play as Melee? And how long have you been playing it? Have you tried the end game contents with the class? Do you find it is hard to perfectly execute your combo while dealing with mechanics? Do you still need to look at your button and check what skill need to be used next?

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I’ve been playing Pugilist/Monk since the start of version 1.0, back in October 2010.

I had ALL jobs to level 50 BEFORE they introduced the new combo system + positional mechanic. Before it was even released, I did not like the idea of taking a majority of my Monk/Pug skills and locking them to one particular side of the mob for a beneficial effect.

I tried it when it came out and I didn’t like it. Fast forward to 2014 and I still feel the same exact way.

Some people like the positional reqs. at the start, or in spurts. I am Monk most of the time and I never liked it, even before it's inception.

Learning the positions doesn't take that long, it’s easy to pull off unless the mob is facing you. In that case, the 1 minute steel peak cd stun isn’t enough to justify doing the same combos that you would be doing if the mob was NOT facing you.

My boredom comes from a combination of the positionals + skills I can use at the moment. Being stuck using mainly 2 skills per form, and from only one side. Not much variation, so it feels very repetitive after a while.

It gets annoying for me because:
-Most of my Monk's skills depend on me being either on the side or the back for max damage + affects.
-Solo'n; having no good way to attack from the front.
-Seeing the tank go down and trying to hold the mob via my dps with no frontal option to do enough damage to keep the mob from going straight to the healer; keeping the healer from getting the tank up. I either have to try to kill xyz aSAP or throw my hands up in the air and say "F it, be strong healer!"

In 1.0, Monks actually had different ways to help if things went wrong:

Accomplice - Conspire with an ally, reducing their enmity and increasing your own.
Taunt I - Whistle jeeringly, increasing enmity and temporarily focusing the target's attacks on you.
Taunt II - Whistle jeeringly, increasing enmity and temporarily focusing the target's attacks on you.

Later changed to:
Taunt - Temporarily focuses the target's attacks on you. Recast Time: 60sec. / Duration: 5sec.
Swift Taunt (trait) - Reduces Taunt recast time by 15 seconds.

Right now, Monk feels one-dimensional, and plays more like a thief would. I do not like this.


I don't like people coming out of the closet telling me "well, you shouldn’t be doing anything else but your job" it's annoying to lack depth.

I am NOT a one-dimensional player.

If I am tanking, I will try to do extra DPS if possible while keeping my hate high.
If I am healing, I will try to toss in a dot or dps if my healing isn't a needed at the moment and if my mp is good at the time.
If I am a summoner, I will dps to the fullest until I see the tank is close to death; I will toss a heal, a stone skin, or both to help the healer.
If I am a DPS and I see my healer getting attacked by mobs, I will try to help peel them off so they can stay alive to keep me and the party alive.

To me, positional attacks do have a place in the game. Rogue/Nin with their Sneak Attack & Trick Attack.

For Monks it should be no more then 2 skills that you have to use from the back or flank for a more damaging affect, not ALL of your combos being reliant on it.

So bottom line, I am a Monk who plays like a thief, that cannot fight face to face with anything since I am positional puppet.

I have minor hopes that SE will make changes to the combo + positioning system. There are other ways to make Monk more exciting and not feel like I'm clocking in when I enter a dungeon.