Congrats guys, you can no longer HQ Craft while waiting for the DF queue

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I think the only time I've ever withdrawn from duty was when I did something dumb while working on relic by selecting Hydra in DF while still having AK selected. Then AK would pop and I'd have to withdraw because of my error. I feel bad, but with the new system, I totally deserve a strike.

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That's for your own mistake. You can withdraw once and requeue. No punishment there, I believe.
We're talking about something that's forcing you to withdraw more that 3 times in a day.

There is a difference between a mistake and constantly spamming withdraw because you want a run in progress to get quick loot. Though honestly it's probably still targeting the wrong people since those are in a minority and many also get into an instance then leave once they have the loot they want so perhaps they should have thought about how to punish the right people. Part of me does feel happy that it'll fix the issue with DPS players though since getting an ST raid run in DF is an absolute nightmare since you need to have 15 DPS all pay attention to the screen and i've had it pop 12 times in a row or more with DPS withdrawing each time. The other part of me understands that long queue times are a bore and you need to find something to do be it crafting or tabbing out to procrastinate which i think is mostly the case. Though the bigger part of me still wants to break something over their heads because i have to click commence 15 times in a row some days.

I also like to do different things while I wait but I restrict myself to stuff that allows me for a quick Change if the Dungeon starts and the pop up comes up. I craft only items using quick Synthesis or non star items I can finish in time. Or go fishing, farm shards or whatever else can be interrupted anytime. While I understand that it can be tough if you are doing a 3 star craft, I do not see it as that much of an issue. You have still 2 times for "free" to withdraw and for the rest, just do not do crafts that take several minutes.

The comfort the crafters lose is worth it if you take a look at the reason why this new penalty exists. All the run in progress fishers or players being picky about what they want to play although they have chosen a Roulette modus for best rewards are caught with it. They can still fish or be picky two times but that's it from now on and I like the Change. It will reduce that ugly text in red nobody wants to see 10 times in a row significantly.

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Originally Posted by TomTom1968

The comfort the crafters lose is worth it if you take a look at the reason why this new penalty exists. All the run in progress fishers or players being picky about what they want to play although they have chosen a Roulette modus for best rewards are caught with it. They can still fish or be picky two times but that's it from now on and I like the Change. It will reduce that ugly text in red nobody wants to see 10 times in a row significantly.

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No it's not. Plain and simple. You're punishing all muslims just because ISIS and Alqaeda did something stupid.

I whole heartedly agree with the change, it's been a long time coming.
So many trolls use ST queue wait for it to pop then instant withdraw or wait till last second.
It gets beyond frustrating, so I personally can't wait for it to be in game.

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Originally Posted by Sounders

No it's not. Plain and simple. You're punishing all muslims just because ISIS and Alqaeda did something stupid.

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That was a very bad analogy and you should feel bad. If people, whether fishers or crafters, didn't abuse the withdraw feature, then we wouldn't be here right now.

It is pretty harsh. Implementing just a 5 minute wait when you withdraw or miss queue would have been enough to discourage people trying to queue for a dungeon in progress. A getting locked out for a day after just 3 withdraws is very unforgiving for those who legitimately could not enter the queue.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

It is pretty harsh. Implementing just a 5 minute wait when you withdraw or miss queue would have been enough to discourage people trying to queue for a dungeon in progress. A getting locked out for a day after just 3 withdraws is very unforgiving for those who legitimately could not enter the queue.

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Not really actually. FFXI's Dynamis still has daily lockout, and I don't see people complaining over there. lol

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

Not really actually. FFXI's Dynamis still has daily lockout, and I don't see people complaining over there. lol

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That.... is a totally different thing. The Dynamis daily lockout is more comparable to the weekly Coil lockout. You can go once a day, and then you're done. Plus, I mean, that's solo content for the most part. The equivalent would be like saying no to the prompt to enter Dynamis, and it telling you you're locked out for the day anyway.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

That.... is a totally different thing. The Dynamis daily lockout is more comparable to the weekly Coil lockout. You can go once a day, and then you're done. Plus, I mean, that's solo content for the most part. The equivalent would be like saying no to the prompt to enter Dynamis, and it telling you you're locked out for the day anyway.

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Solo huh? I'd like to see you try soloing Dyna-Windurst. lol

Besides, you need adequate gearing and backup RRs to manage yourself in there and this is really important doing this as THF to maximize loot. But even so, entering with some companions are more beneficial than soloing.

But yeah, Dynamis might be a bit too harsh for comparison with the upcoming penalty, tho just wanna give an example from other MMO.

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Originally Posted by Sounders

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You do realize that my post was not direct at one person, but more the "general" public right? Most are trolls that withdraw while waiting for that one DPS to queue ST. Yes I get the fact that others either given up on the dungeon from annoyance of waiting longer than the time I posted I did, or found something else better to do.

But I'll conclude my response with a famous saying: "My post wasn't for you, but if the shoe fits. Feel free to lace that bitch up and wear it!"

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

It is pretty harsh. Implementing just a 5 minute wait when you withdraw or miss queue would have been enough to discourage people trying to queue for a dungeon in progress. A getting locked out for a day after just 3 withdraws is very unforgiving for those who legitimately could not enter the queue.

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The context of the patch note imply that the lock out duration is not an entire day.

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Originally Posted by Sounders

No it's not. Plain and simple. You're punishing all muslims just because ISIS and Alqaeda did something stupid.

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I find this to be an extreme misrepresentation of what TomTom1968 said in post #43. Not only is it a misrepresentation, it's an overinflated analogy of their context.

I think the solution to be implemented is rather arbitrary, but it's better than nothing. I also completely agree with the statement "the comfort the crafters lose is worth it". I don't prefer it, but it is indeed worth it and a rather small price to pay considering the sum of the whole.

I don't see why you're upset though? If it happens to you once and you feel the need to withdraw, then do it. There's no penalty. If it happens to you three times in a day then you're doing it wrong.

If you want to craft and not get interrupted by the DF, then don't register.

I craft all the time. Well, not all the time, but a good percentage of my time on game is spent crafting or getting mats or similar. You know what I don't do before I craft an expensive synth or a 3star HQ? I don't queue my duty finder. What do I do? I do a variety of things that allow me to change back to my queued job quickly. It is really not difficult to avoid ever missing a duty finder queue in general game circumstances.

When you play by yourself, do as you'd like. When you have given your word to appear, which is what DF is, you should honor your word. If you can't, then don't obligate yourself.

Make a static to do daily runs. Ask your LS or FC if anyone needs expert or hard or whatever it is you want to go fight. Use the Party Finder system.

I think wholly, it is more important to remember that the other people involved in your DF parties are not NPCs but people who want to go do other things as well. But they have kept their word, why won't you?

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Originally Posted by Odd

My god people, NOWHERE DOES IT SAY YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO USE THE DF FOR A FULL DAY.

I think it's much more likely a 30 min penalty, exactly like how Shyluv explained it. Why don't you save you rage until your see exactly how it's implemented?

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This. What it most likely mean is withdraw once, counter at 1. Withdraw a second time, counter at 2. Withdraw a third time, counter at 3, triggering penalty (most likely 30 mins, same as withdrawing from full party DF). Withdraw from it 4th time, penalty again, same for 5th time etc. At reset, counter goes back to 0.

However, this system will now hate on people who queue, then go do 3+ star crafts. A little unfair to those who run DPS and use this queue time to craft.

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Originally Posted by Sounders

So you're saying it's our fault trying to keep ourselves sane while waiting for dutyfinder?

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Yep, that's exactly what I said. :rolleyes:

Reading comprehension at it's finest.

If the avg wait time says 30m and you've been waiting 40m, you probably should not start a 3* craft.

Do you have to be a "No Life" gamer to wait patiently for half hours or even more? Unfortunately all recreational stuff we did while waiting, whether it's crafting or RL stuff, will face that risk.

I do agree though that doing a 3* might be too far. lol

Life happens. I've had a Tank in DF leave in the middle of the final boss fight to go get his pizza at the door. Lucky we were in SV and it didn't matter. I've been the tank in Satasha when my Pizza arrived and had to make the guy wait the 2-3 minutes to down the fish breath at the end. Kids start screaming, Mom and Dad start screaming, your Husband can need you to help him with the groceries, your wife may need you to kill a ugly spider, your roommate can choke on a cashew, your cat can hop up on the keyboard and click cancel, you can be crafting a HQ item, fighting in a fate, switching a zone with a super slow load, or training your Chocobo. You can be on yahoo, msn, espn, kotaku, or reddit. You can be studying how to better DPS / Tank / Heal, watching the fun videos that begin with the letter P, or hell even Twilight.

Fact remains, Life happens. When your trying to get a random group of 24 people to do something....life happens. Let the angst go, and take it with a grain of salt. While you don't want to be penalized for waiting the 30-60 minutes for a queue pop, some of these dudes don't want to be penalized for having it popped while working on a 100k+ gil item.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XmwkxpL4yL...1600/image.png

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Originally Posted by Lycia

Fact remains, Life happens. When your trying to get a random group of 24 people to do something....life happens. Let the angst go, and take it with a grain of salt. While you don't want to be penalized for waiting the 30-60 minutes for a queue pop, some of these dudes don't want to be penalized for having it popped while working on a 100k+ gil item.

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Your post has merit, that I won't deny you.

However, I think many people are reading too far into this penalty thing.

I'm seeing it alot different than the lot of you are posting. Please bare with me as I explain what I currently believe triggers the penalty.

Say you queue up for Sastasha, Stone Vigil, & Ifrit, but you did not mean to select Ifrit. So you queue duty finder. And it DOES NOT trigger, then deselect Ifrit and queue again.

Here's what I believe will happen: You will not be penalized for this as DF did not trigger (ie with the Commence and Decline buttons).

So now same scenario, but this time DF triggers and you hit decline, this is where you will be penalized, at least this is the way I see it. If so, people just need to chillax, it's not the end of the world...

I think this system is okay but just for larger raids... namely, CT/ST/Frontlines. Those are the three places where withdrawals happen the most and you have to do the most waiting even after the queue pops.

Everywhere else, especially 4-mans? If someone withdraws, they're usually filled up again quickly enough anyway. Keep in mind that you're already in the front of the queue when someone withdraws.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Honestly, you have yourselves to thank for the change.

If people didn't withdraw constantly trying to spam in progress instances (or flat out troll), the restriction would have never been implemented.

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I couldn't like this post enough. Thank you.

I don't see why anyone would HQ craft in DF anyway. 3 star synths take me about 2 minutes to finish. If I'm waiting in a long queue, that's pretty good odds that I'll have to cancel anyway and lose that wait time.

I'll often do quick synth, fast NQ 1 stars (<10 seconds per synth), or HQ 1 star 40 durability (~30 sec macro) while in DF.

It will/should cancel each other out.

DF trolls being penalised should theoretically mean better/quicker DF commencement, therefore no reason to craft excessively during the wait times anymore.

Saying that, being a huge fan of DoH, I would never ever craft a ** or intensive mat recipe while DFing, most of the time its usually just a * where i have a lot of mats for - so this puts me in a region where if DF does pop (and it has before) I am about 50-75% HQ completed (as opposed to ** where I would be 10-25% meaning more steps also), and being a * if it does NQ I am not fussed. If the wait time was lengthened to 50s-60s, that would be a massive QoL DoH improvement, but means those waiting have to wait even longer, and that is a bit selfish imo.


tl;dr: if yu have to craft during DF, do so at your own risk.

I think its also selfish to tell other people how they choose to play the game they're paying for. I've ran CT/ST like all you guys. I Duty finder stuff as a DPS, and I have it happen. Is it annoying? Yes, however I don't see why theirs this much angst over it.

It's not that bad because from now on when somebody registers for DF it means they want/need to play x,y,z...before that people started doing all sorts of things and register to DF and of course cancel because they where in the middle of something else. Why should I Q even more then I did because you want to craft?

Hi, the count for the three withdraws resets and 9 am, the punishment may end later (or sooner, lol.)

I don't see it is such a problem, only when you have already withdrawn twice there is a risk of losing a HQ craft.

It looks like a good decision to me. Too many people withdraw or lose the wait time. Three times in one day are too many to be a coincidence. Usually you can guess if the dungeon will pop up soon, you may fail and guess badly, if you fail twice in a day, then you just become more prudent until the timer has passed.

I do things while I wait queues for the DPS and sometimes I have lost one, but seldom, not three times the same day, I don't think that is so frequent (except in progress fishing that I don't think is so frequent, usually DPS are the ones who withdraw, and probably because they lost the queue being afk for a moment or doing a levequest, FATE, or crafting, etc.)

I experimented on my tank this morning before the reset. I trolled the queue for the sake of science. It's a 30 minute penalty.

im all for the penalty my last ST b4 the patch i had it pop up 7 times due to some1 withdrawing n 30-40min wait between each pop up... so the harsher the penalty more likely it wont happen as often so i say great idea to SE for implementing it :P

WELL... GUESS WHAT! I JUST GOT THAT FUCKING PENALTY! DIDN'T EVEN WITHDRAW A SINGLE DF. DIDN'T EVEN CRAFT OR DOING ANYTHING. AND MY TICKETS ARE STILL BEING IGNORED.

AND ALL ONLY BECAUSE I JOIN LS BUDDY DOING HIS DF FOR QARN HM!!!

THANKS ALOT! >:(

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I experimented on my tank this morning before the reset. I trolled the queue for the sake of science. It's a 30 minute penalty.

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Conclusion: it is a great decision, thanks a lot!

30 minutes don't seem too long, I thought it would be longer, it's the same penalty for leaving once started the dungeon, but probably it's enough to make people not withdraw lightly. And three times in a day are many times to lose a queue for unexpected reasons, if it happens you wait 30 minutes more and life is not ended.

If somebody got the penalty without withdrawing, that has to be a bug that will be fixed.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

WELL... GUESS WHAT! I JUST GOT THAT FUCKING PENALTY! DIDN'T EVEN WITHDRAW A SINGLE DF. DIDN'T EVEN CRAFT OR DOING ANYTHING. AND MY TICKETS ARE STILL BEING IGNORED.

AND ALL ONLY BECAUSE I JOIN LS BUDDY DOING HIS DF FOR QARN HM!!!

THANKS ALOT! >:(

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As said in the other thread you complained about this in...there has been a 30 minute lockout penalty for ditching groups in dungeons for ages now even prior to this patch. If you did not get vote kicked to avoid it, vote abandoned or leave via the end of dungeon exit you would of got this penalty which is different to the withdraw penalty even though both are 30 minute lockouts.

well...

as I calmed down and talked to my party member, the party leader admits commencing a DF without me knowing and then when it quickly pops, the tank in party quickly cancelled since he want to take a break, an action that resulted every party member got penalize. It was all happened when I'm still in loading screen from last dungeon.

At least you know what happened. Conclusion: tell all your party member not to hastily register/cancel without other concern.