Shiva EX weapons i110? Really?

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Originally Posted by myahele

Are the weapons rare drops or guaranteed?

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We don't know yet. If they are rare, that's even worse for Shiva EX. Unless its one guaranteed i110 weapon and i120 bracelet drop, which makes it slightly better but not by a whole lot.

a primal shouldn't have anywhere near 115..110 is fine for any weapon
accessories higher are quite enough

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Originally Posted by Krr

Yeah, just like people did good king moggle mog for the ribbons and people did Ramuh for his rings.

Oh, wait...

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Yeah, actually. I heal for my coil group and I have no high allagan ring of healing to show for it. But it's no problem, I just do Ramuh and I have something that's just as good (and possibly a nice i100 weapon for an alt class).

Shiva is the same way. Try your luck at Final coil, and watch as RNG screws you. No problemo, just do Shiva EX for an i120 bracelet until you get your Final Coil one. Shiva's bracelet is just as good as the poetic ring and you can farm Shiva infinitely, versus waiting 2 weeks before you spend your poetic stones on another piece of gear.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Yeah, actually. I heal for my coil group and I have no high allagan ring of healing to show for it. But it's no problem, I just do Ramuh and I have something that's just as good (and possibly a nice i100 weapon for an alt class).

Shiva is the same way. Try your luck at Final coil, and watch as RNG screws you. No problemo, just do Shiva EX for an i120 bracelet until you get your Final Coil one. Shiva's bracelet is just as good as the poetic ring and you can farm Shiva infinitely, versus waiting 2 weeks before you spend your poetic stones on another piece of gear.

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The difference is that Ramuh is actually on par with Coil whereas this is not. Upgrading accessories is also the smallest upgrade possible for gear.

Ramuh came out when 2nd coil was already old content. Shiva EX and Final Coil are coming out at the same time.

It would make no sense if the loot from Shiva, who can be farmed infinitely, would be on par with Final Coil, which you are locked out of clearing more than once a week and aren't even guaranteed loot.

I know the OP said you can just use a UAT but it's just a UAT you need, you need about 10 Rowena's tokens to get the orignal weapon in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess

I know the OP said you can just use a UAT but it's just a UAT you need, you need about 10 Rowena's tokens to get the orignal weapon in the first place.

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Soldiery will be uncapped, you can farm two of those weapons in one day if you care enough

I feel like this is largely a response to how quickly people stormed through Second Coil, with the i95 Leviathan weapons being a pretty big contributor to letting people further optimize at the i90 level to start taking them on within the first couple weeks. This time around, your only real viable options for Final Coil are going to be the Nexus, which is a gigantic time and gil sink that few people have completed, and High Allagan, which still drops from a fight that is almost certainly longer and more difficult than Shiva was ever going to be. If they don't want anyone but the absolute best of the best getting through T11-T12 in the first couple weeks, it's an understandable decision.

Having said that, yeah, it really, really sucks. This feels in a lot of ways like taking a step backward, not just from 2.3, but all the way back to 2.0, where the only viable weapon progression path was to get your relic, and then your Zenith. I felt that the 2.2 model was, on the whole, quite well designed, and it's a real disappointment to see this sort of regression in a progression patch.

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Originally Posted by Crater

If they don't want anyone but the absolute best of the best getting through T11-T12 in the first couple weeks, it's an understandable decision.

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You won't even be able to get into T10 without a T9 clear so I'm not sure how Shiva dropping an i115 weapon would even be relevant to downing T11 or T12, if you could enter T10-13 then an i115 weapon is already within your grasp. Just like having an i115 weapon alone doesn't get you into T10 let alone get you a clear.

Farming a primal for the i110 weapons i still want, sounds way more fun then ever doing ST again plus farming 1300 soldiery that could be used elsewhere. Everyone will want the i120 bracelets since buying the poetics wrist in the first 6-8 weeks would be a retarded waist of the tome. (Raiders will be saving tomes for i130 weapons and everyone else should be focused on their left side)

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Nobody complained about Leviathan EX dropping i95 + upgrade to i100 and the fight was farmed/done like crazy. Nobody will care about the bracelets long term, Moggle Mog EX was dead on arrival content that was done once for a clear and then barely touched ever again by most players. Ramuh was similarly ignored before they buffed his rings to Coil tier drops, which Shiva's bracelets are not.

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This person is right. Same thing happened and Leviathan ended up being I daresay the most popular ex for quite some time. No reason why Shiva cant have i 115 weapon drop with an item that can raise it to 120 with a 1/50 droprate like mirrors had.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Farming a primal for the i110 weapons i still want, sounds way more fun then ever doing ST again plus farming 1300 soldiery that could be used elsewhere. Everyone will want the i120 bracelets since buying the poetics wrist in the first 6-8 weeks would be a retarded waist of the tome. (Raiders will be saving tomes for i130 weapons and everyone else should be focused on their left side)

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Right?? You get a i120 bracelet that you don't have to waste poetics for and a FREE i110 weapon for another class. Saves you the time of falling asleep in ST and grinding the tomes. :/

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

You won't even be able to get into T10 without a T9 clear so I'm not sure how Shiva dropping an i115 weapon would even be relevant to downing T11 or T12, if you could enter T10-13 then an i115 weapon is already within your grasp. Just like having an i115 weapon alone doesn't get you into T10 let alone get you a clear.

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It's not too complicated of an idea, if you look back to early 2.2. The Leviathan weapons had very different stat spreads from the Allagan weapons, which let you optimize your gear further (in fact, if you look at the stats of Wave weapons in comparison to Allagan, with only one or two exceptions, they followed the rule that if the Allagan weapon didn't have Accuracy, the Wave weapon did, and vice versa, allowing you to more easily meet the accuracy cap for T6 without having to reconfigure your entire gearset).
In addition to that, the Wave weapons had their own upgrade path - albeit one that ultimately came down to pure luck - that made them simply better than their Allagan counterparts, which could help you push into Second Coil.


And there's also the fact that, yes, you needed to clear T5 to enter T6, sure, but you didn't need to be part of a group that could easily farm T5 ad nauseum until everybody had a weapon. Just being able to eke out a narrow victory over Twintania was enough to get you in the door to T6 (and plenty of people made it to T7 without being able to easily beat T5 on demand), while you could farm the (comparatively easier) Leviathan fight to get an upgrade to your weapon that would help you in the early turns of Second Coil.

Or, for that matter, there's just the simple fact that Leviathan was a new fight and an alternate path to getting yourself up to the i95 weapon baseline. If you've been doing T9 for months and months and don't have your weapon (my static's WHM got her staff after twenty-two weeks - more than five months - of clearing T9), then the last thing you're going to want to do when a new progression patch comes out is ignore all of the actual new content to go farm the thing you've been fighting for the last half a damn year, just because it's the only way to hit the new progression baseline.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Coil is the only content that people who raid are ever going to have that is worth it for them and everything else is just going to be dead on arrival

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biggest problem with this game's raid progression right there.

i don't understand why coil is such a tiny raid compared to the raid content this game pulls it's inspiration from (cough wow)

i don't understand why sequential patches don't always provide additional relevant content... seems like a waste to introduce 'extreme primals' when they offer sidegrades/downgrades to the current endgame rewards

i also don't understand why gearing up is so easy/quick

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Originally Posted by Vmage

i don't understand why coil is such a tiny raid compared to the raid content this game pulls it's inspiration from (cough wow)

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Yoshi P answered this question at fanfest. He said WoW goes 6 months to 1 year between new patches. Since WoW is a much more popular stabilized game they can have very long periods of time between patchs. FFXIV on the other hand they want to do a patch every 3 months and thus less content is made per patch. He didn't want to keep players waiting as long as they have to wait for content in WoW and thought it was much better for FFXIV to have smaller more frequent patches. He said they could do that if people wanted to wait much longer but he thinks they wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Yoshi P answered this question at fanfest. He said WoW goes 6 months to 1 year between new patches. Since WoW is a much more popular stabilized game they can have very long periods of time between patchs. FFXIV on the other hand they want to do a patch every 3 months and thus less content is made per patch. He didn't want to keep players waiting as long as they have to wait for content in WoW and thought it was much better for FFXIV to have smaller more frequent patches. He said they could do that if people wanted to wait much longer but he thinks they wouldn't.

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The problem is that for people who raid they are effectively waiting that long anyways because none of the other content in the game is catered towards them. 4 man dungeons with loot that is never going to be relevant for us, EX primals who are outclassed by raid tier loot before they even come out, CT and ST which similarly offer nothing outside of gearing alts which we can't use due to lock-outs in raids.

I agree that waiting longer would suck, but for a lot of people (Within the raiding players) it already feels that way. I understand that the game cannot be centered around raiders as we make up a minority, but having at least one other raid or set of fights to look forward to would be nice. Savage Coil is not a substitute because it removes the main reward which is loot based upon the difficulty of the instance, and it also locks you out of the non-savage mode fights if you clear.

This isn't an issue. Moogle was fine with just an Item Level 100 necks, plenty of players learning and farming the fight when it dropped, even though it was probably harmed by people having to farm Leviathan 24/7 in desperate hopes of a mirror.

Shiva drops not only easy to obtain (don't need Tomestone, Soldiery and Sands, or a party to farm T9) Item Level 110 weapons but also bracelets which will probably be everyones number 1 choice until they start to fill out gear better with 120 Poetics.

This also solves the problem that Turn 5 had that Turn 5 came kind of pointless for most players after a first clear because the weapons were the same as Leviathan, it's a harder fight than Leviathan, and there was 0% chance of a mirror to upgrade. The same won't happen to Turn 9 as Turn 9 weapons and Relic Nexuses (and I doubt anyones going to farm extra Nexuses for alts are better.

I prefer this really.

Problem with Ramuh is that he dropped in the odd patch when everyone was already full 100 or better pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Nobody complained about Leviathan EX dropping i95 + upgrade to i100 and the fight was farmed/done like crazy. Nobody will care about the bracelets long term, Moggle Mog EX was dead on arrival content that was done once for a clear and then barely touched ever again by most players. Ramuh was similarly ignored before they buffed his rings to Coil tier drops, which Shiva's bracelets are not.

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Completely different on my server. Tonnes of people were complaining about the Mirror of the Whorl drop rate, Moogle was less common than Leviathan yes, but it was still done and farmed for the neckpieces, baffles my mind that people are actually asking for another Mirror drop-rate item. Thanks but no thanks.