Very conflicted about the cash shop...

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Originally Posted by Amused

You have no way to prove that at all. I'm sure at least a portion of the revenue would go toward people's paychecks, so a lot of it would be pocketed if I had to guess.

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A lot of you people should go take a look at their financial report. It's insane the amount of comments that show a total lack of knowledge on how companies works.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

A lot of you people should go take a look at their financial report. It's insane the amount of comments that show a total lack of knowledge on how companies works.

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Surprised people forgotten that just awhile ago Square was bankrupt or at least heading towards it.

A vanity only cash shop is fine. As long as it does not add lockbox gambling nonsense or pay to win, I am cool with it.

These posts are hilarious. The sheer entitlement here is the most audacious posts i've ever read. You don't like it, don't buy anything. Not one thing. You self centered people need to get off of your high horse. S.E. is a business. Oh and they were almost facing bankrputcy not too long ago. They're not making you people buy anything. you don't like it, leave. They're a business. Plain and simple.

If they start selling Gil or side story content, I have a problem with it. Vanity, who cares? If you want to play dress up, go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Eggnook24

side story content

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The expansion, kind of falls under this.

I sincerely hope they put some crafted gear in this too. I'd prefer to get a lv1 South Seas Talisman by giving 3 dollars to SE rather than 2 million gil to an inflating asshole crafter.

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Originally Posted by Ketsuyame

These posts are hilarious. The sheer entitlement here is the most audacious posts i've ever read. You don't like it, don't buy anything. Not one thing. You self centered people need to get off of your high horse. S.E. is a business. Oh and they were almost facing bankrputcy not too long ago. They're not making you people buy anything. you don't like it, leave. They're a business. Plain and simple.

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"If you don't like it, leave" followed by "they're a business." What kind of business would operate with that kind of attitude towards their customers? I don't think SE would like us to just leave if we don't like something about their game. They created the forums for feedback, not for praise only, so if people have a problem they can come in here and say so. Plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

The expansion, kind of falls under this.

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Not really. Almost every game imaginable puts a cost on its expansion, it is kinda to be expected. I would say the problem comes if they try and, say, make you pay for the type of quests we get in the 2.1 etc Patches.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Not really. Almost every game imaginable puts a cost on its expansion, it is kinda to be expected. I would say the problem comes if they try and, say, make you pay for the type of quests we get in the 2.1 etc Patches.

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Some concept only smaller. Still takes extra development time. Time = Money, we all know this, nothing new. Overtime is overtime... ect

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Originally Posted by Mardel

The expansion, kind of falls under this.

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Expansion is main story and continued content. I'm talking about paid dungeon instances with possible exclusive drops. That'd be bad.

If a game like WoW, which still has over double the subs of FFXIV, has a cash shop, why can't FFXIV?

If they keep the items purely vanity, then it will just be a matter of you finding value in spending X amount of dollars for it. If you don't find value in spending that money, then you must not really want it or need it. This is just a good business model. If SE can make extra profit, without alienating a majority of their player base (i.e. not selling pay to win items), then it makes sense for them to do this. Also, I'm sure a lot of this extra money will go back into the game and help the development of actual in-game content.

While I can see both the pros and cons of using a Cash Shop, my feelings about it is this.

If they put things up in the cash shop such as Cloud's and Tifa's outfits/hairstyle and a Shoopuff mount, that would be one thing. But if we start seeing things like a race-specific outfit that can be worn by all races, Garlean-styled armor (or helmets), Minfilia's outfit, or lore-based items in the shop, then it'll be annoying.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

The subscription fee doesn't automatically entitle all players to use all FFXIV-related services and features free of additional charge.

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That's funny, because it did mean that until just now. Apparently, the subscription fee is no longer a fee to experience the whole game, but merely just parts of the game. Our subscription money is literally worth less than it used to, from now on.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

If they want to add purely cosmetic extra features to the game for purchase, what's wrong with that?

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You know, it's funny that people defend this cash shop scheme by saying it is "vanity only" or "just cosmetic stuff," as if it is insignificant and should not matter to anyone. But if it were insignificant and did not matter to anyone, then no one would ever buy it. The only reason these things are for sale is because they matter, and make the game more enjoyable for players.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

If you don't like them or don't want to pay for them, play as usual and ignore the shop.

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Nice glasses on your character, by the way. Hope you enjoy them, because from now on stuff like that will become more and more rare unless you pay extra. Those minions you used to win by participating in FATEs or getting a lucky drop in a dungeon? No more of that. Next time you see someone in awesome-looking armor, or carrying a shiny new sword, and you ask "Wow, that looks awesome, where did you get that?" -- the answer will be "the cash shop." Want that cool chocobo barding or mount associated with the next primal? Well you won't get it by mastering the content or getting a drop -- it will be available to purchase for money. But hey, that's alright, you can just enjoy your pre-existing, out-of-date "vanilla FFXIV" gear and mounts, and remember the days when those things used to be available in the actual game.

Eh, really not happy with this cash shop thing.

I don't care if it's just cosmetic crap. One of the things that justifies making players pay a monthly fee is that we would get access to everything in the game. Yeah, Retainers already broke this, but I guess FFXI and it's necessity for paid mules didn't make me complain much. But a cash shop for cosmetic stuff? That's how Free to play games make their money and has no place in a subscription game.

The game hasn't had an expansion or a drop in subscriptions and they're already talking about adding a cash shop. Yup, sounds to me like they're already doing damage control for when the expansion turns out to be a flop.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

That's funny, because it did mean that until just now. Apparently, the subscription fee is no longer a fee to experience the whole game, but merely just parts of the game.

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The irony of this statement is there's people who pay the $10-$16+ a month and only utilize a fraction of the game's content that does exist...plenty who've yet to even touch Second Coil. Losing out on vanity items doesn't suddenly negate 99% of the game you do have access to with your sub fee.

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Originally Posted by Songi

The game hasn't had an expansion or a drop in subscriptions and they're already talking about adding a cash shop. Yup, sounds to me like they're already doing damage control for when the expansion turns out to be a flop.

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This is just stupid logic.

For one, subscriptions have obviously already dropped some since release (though are likely stabilized).
Second, if they thought that the expansion was bad, they'd delay it and keep releasing normal patches until they thought it was good. Serously, they actually made a CG animation for the expansion (something that never happened with FFXI).

It's obvious that they just saw an opportunity to make some extra money given that WoW does this too.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

The irony of this statement is there's people who pay the $10-$16+ a month and only utilize a fraction of the game's content that does exist...plenty who've yet to even touch Second Coil. Losing out on vanity items doesn't suddenly negate 99% of the game you do have access to with your sub fee.

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It literally negates 99% of the crafts available to every DoH except CUL, and each patch those high end crafts will be moved to vanity. It also negates the point of doing Treasure Maps entirely, which was one of the few fun things I did in this game over the past 2 months. On top of this, since apparently SCoB is important to you, imagine if they charged you 10$ extra to play that content every week - after all, it doesn't negate 99% of the game you do have access to with your sub fee, it is only a fraction of the entire game, yet now it costs a fee to do. You should be more than happy to pay for the privilege to access a raid in a game you're already paying monthly for, no? Oh, does that sound... unreasonable, maybe? Yeah, it is a bit dumb to pay for things you should already be able to do/obtain in the game. Oh, but because it's something you don't care about personally, it should be fine for everyone that it be removed from the game and sold separately. Mmmmmmm.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

It literally negates 99% of the crafts available to every DoH except CUL

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Dungeon drops in level 15-49 dungeons does this already - CT/ST and Coil does this already. Solidery, Mythology and Allied Seal gear does this already. The only benefit crafted gear has is if you have the money and time to overmeld pieces when..instead, you can just do the content :p

So no..it doesn't negate anything that the game doesn't already negate by design.

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since apparently SCoB is important to you, imagine if they charged you 10$ extra to play that content every week

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This analogy Does. Not. Work. because that's called Freemium model.

Seriously?! They'll be releasing a vanity cash shop? That sucks big time.
Even if it's just for vanity, it's stuff we won't freely have access to in-game even though Yoshi-P himself said that our subscription fee was to allow us access to ALL the game content.
I'm ready to bet that it's only vanity for now, they'll definitely add more non-vanity stuff to it later, seeing how they're starting to walk into the dirty gaming policies with that cash shop.

This is just getting retarded.

Let it be known to SE that I do NOT approve such sheninagans and going back on your promises for the direction of the game.
Getting a minion in-game for buying the art book or sound track is fine because it's a purchase that holds a REAL MATERIAL value.
A game shop? It's a money trap (you never actually own anything even though you paid money for it) that'll just remove content for the rest of us.

I understand the need of SE to make money but not at the expense of ethical entertainment! I'm not interested in financially supporting a company like that. People work hard for their money and you're gonna make up something like that to take it from them? Tsk.

I'll wait and see, but it's a big negative point that was added. You can be sure I'll be boycotting the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

On top of this, since apparently SCoB is important to you, imagine if they charged you 10$ extra to play that content every week - after all, it doesn't negate 99% of the game you do have access to with your sub fee, it is only a fraction of the entire game, yet now it costs a fee to do.

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The likelyhood of SE locking raids behind a cash-shop is so amazingly low that using it in this context is just a straw man argument.

Yeah, I hate that they're adding a cash shop too, but making irrelevant arguments brings nothing to the discussion.

It depends on what specific items they put in, if they don't take everything that you can get in game and put it on the cash shop and leave plenty of items for DOL to make gil on, then there is no problem.

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Originally Posted by KuroganeAre

It depends on what specific items they put in, if they don't take everything that you can get in game and put it on the cash shop and leave plenty of items for DOL to make gil on, then there is no problem.

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It seems as if the only in-game items they are considering putting up there are old seasonal events items. Everything else seems to be exclusive to the store, unless they are added in-game at a later date I suppose.

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Originally Posted by KuroganeAre

It depends on what specific items they put in, if they don't take everything that you can get in game and put it on the cash shop and leave plenty of items for DOL to make gil on, then there is no problem.

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To address this:

1. They will NOT TAKE ANYTHING FROM THE GAME..it has to exist IN GAME for it to even be in the shop in the first place, as in, has to exist in the data.
2. None of us are supposed to even know we could get certain items, for example Odin's horse? We weren't even supposed to know about the Fan Fest Trial.

The only games that yank items from in game to resell to you are OFFLINE games - it's called DLC.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

This analogy Does. Not. Work. because that's called Freemium model.

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The analogy literally does work, they are charging you an extra $10 for things you don't need and instead want. Your arbitrary definitions of importance aren't relevant.

Ahh so instead of new things DOH could make, you have to buy instead. People love vanity items. If they didn't people wouldn't do beast tribes or trials for mounts, augmented items that glow. Making things you can buy takes any achievement away. I should know cause I had played F2P games for ages before I got sick of it. I can tell you once this starts, it'll only get worse.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

The likelyhood of SE locking raids behind a cash-shop is so amazingly low that using it in this context is just a straw man argument.

Yeah, I hate that they're adding a cash shop too, but making irrelevant arguments brings nothing to the discussion.

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Except it was never a strawman argument, it was a comparison for the purposes of his actual argument. He never suggested it would actually happen. You failing to understand replies /also/ adds nothing to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by vientown

The analogy literally does work, they are charging you an extra $10 for things you don't need and instead want. Your arbitrary definitions of importance aren't relevant.

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The argument, while sound, will never reach people's ears. This is because many people are inherently selfish and feel they are owed everything in game for "free" as per their subscription fee.

Overall, this is Square-Enix's game, and they can revoke membership from whoever they please, with or without reason. In the same token, they are obligated to sell any proprietary in-game assets they deem worthy of selling.

So where is this cash shop official announcement?

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

The only games that yank items from in game to resell to you are OFFLINE games - it's called DLC.

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Not sure how you can argue that DLC is yanking items from the game to resell to you and a cash shop isn't.

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Originally Posted by vientown

The analogy literally does work, they are charging you an extra $10 for things you don't need and instead want. Your arbitrary definitions of importance aren't relevant.

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No it doesn't - Locking content behind a paywall is already a concept of MMORPGs - It's called, once again, Freemium. You can access x amount of the game for free then you have to pay a sub or pay for x content package. So as much as YOU want it to work, it doesn't work when that concept is an entirely different style of MMORPG, especially if the LOGIC you continue to use is: "paying for what you want", I pay a sub to access the game .. you do...remember your sub is mainly to access the game, right? Read the terms some times.

They wouldn't be charging you $10 to access playable content in a P2P model. Get over it and stop it with that strawman argument.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Not sure how you can argue that DLC is yanking items from the game to resell to you and a cash shop isn't.

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Mounts and Minions doesn't prevent you from a full game experience unless you buy the DLC. You do realize in this day and age of games most of the DLC are usually filling in gaps most of the time rather than expanding the game? Unless you can provide an argument that Odin's horse prevents you from accessing more of the game, you'll be correct.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Dungeon drops in level 15-49 dungeons does this already - CT/ST and Coil does this already. Solidery, Mythology and Allied Seal gear does this already. The only benefit crafted gear has is if you have the money and time to overmeld pieces when..instead, you can just do the content :p

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I am talking about vanity. Look at any custom made vanity outfit and you'll find that a lot of people use crafted specific gear. And if we accept your post as true, then they are literally destroying the one other market that crafters have, which is the lvl 1 completely for vanity gear. Also I'd like to point out that the gloves you are currently wearing on your Scholar are specifically made by Weavers and available nowhere else in the game. :V

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This analogy Does. Not. Work. because that's called Freemium model.

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I googled this because, if I'm honest, I had no idea what you were talking about and this came up as the definition:

"Freemium is a pricing strategy by which a product or service (typically a digital offering such as software, media, games or web services) is provided free of charge, but money (premium) is charged for proprietary features, functionality, or virtual goods."

I don't know if you... didn't read my post or something? Maybe I've got the wrong definition here? But you're still paying the 15$ monthly, on top of the 10$ fee for doing a raid weekly. In fact, I'm pretty sure what you called my example was a "F2P" model - that's quite a bit different than a P2P model that uses a strategy F2P games use (vanity = $$$$). If XIV were F2P and they offered vanity for a price, that would make sense - I'm not funding the vanity content. However, in this game, where I am paying a monthly sub, I am funding the vanity content and then being forced to buy it separately if I want it. It's like if you paid someone to build you a sandbox on a playground you own, paid for all the materials needed to build the sandbox, and then they told you you had to buy the sandbox they made from them. You still have access to the playground, but you don't get the sandbox unless you pay the worker you hired for it. Does that analogy work a bit better for you? Cuz I'm really trying my hardest to explain this in a way that makes sense, but a lot of people don't seem to get it.

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Originally Posted by vientown

The analogy literally does work, they are charging you an extra $10 for things you don't need and instead want. Your arbitrary definitions of importance aren't relevant.

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Originally Posted by vientown

Except it was never a strawman argument, it was a comparison for the purposes of his actual argument. He never suggested it would actually happen. You failing to understand replies /also/ adds nothing to the discussion.

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No, it literally doesn't work because the likelyhood of it ever happening is close to zero. This example simply isn't within the realm of possibility because raids aren't vanity items.

Pretty upset to see them selling previous seasonal items after they've offered them in the game for gil. One of the biggest arguments I've made in support of this game was how kind and generous the developers have been with past content still being available - people aren't left out if they start later. After seeing the pumpkin heads and hearing Yoshi say past seasonal items were to be sold (5$ each no less...) I was so extremely disappointed.

Please do not do this. It alienates new players from beautiful past content and leads down a road that will alienate current players.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Pretty upset to see them selling previous seasonal items after they've offered them in the game for gil. One of the biggest arguments I've made in support of this game was how kind and generous the developers have been with past content still being available - people aren't left out if they start later. After seeing the pumpkin heads and hearing Yoshi say past seasonal items were to be sold (5$ each no less...) I was so extremely disappointed.

Please do not do this. It alienates new players from beautiful past content and leads down a road that will alienate current players.

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I'm pretty sure they'll sell seasonal items out of season. It won't fly if a seasonal event comes up and they charge people for the items.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

No, it literally doesn't work because the likelyhood of it ever happening is close to zero. Your comparison simply isn't within the realm of possibility.

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I'm sorry but this is too ridiculous to continue. The point of a hypothetical comparison is to say 'how would you feel if /x/ happened?' I'm sorry you can't understand that.

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Originally Posted by ZReport

I'm pretty sure they'll sell seasonal items out of season. It won't fly if a seasonal event comes up and they charge people for the items.

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I think you're missing the problem here; it seems as though they're no longer providing these past items during the seasonal events like before. There was no listed NPC selling past items for this new Halloween event like they did before - b/c they're selling them in the cash shop.

NO MORE PAST EVENT CONTENT WILL BE AVAILABLE IN GAME - only in the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by vientown

I'm sorry but this is too ridiculous to continue. The point of a hypothetical comparison is to say 'how would you feel if /x/ happened?' I'm sorry you can't understand that.

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"How would you feel" scenarios are irrelevant if their probability of happening lies within the real of statistical impossibilities.

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Originally Posted by ZReport

The argument, while sound, will never reach people's ears. This is because many people are inherently selfish and feel they are owed everything in game for "free" as per their subscription fee.

Overall, this is Square-Enix's game, and they can revoke membership from whoever they please, with or without reason. In the same token, they are obligated to sell any proprietary in-game assets they deem worthy of selling.

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They're not 'selfish' and they don't feel owed, they are unhappy with the new terms of their subscription when their previous subscription was all-encompassing. Now they will drop the game and leave you kiddies dancing in a circle excited about paying $20 for a model that's been in the game since 2.0

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Originally Posted by Dwill

"How would you feel" scenarios are irrelevant if their probability of happening lies within the real of statistical impossibilities.

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Hahaha, this is a hilarious derailing tactic that I always love to see. Not really, they're irrelevant if they're outwith the realm of feeling, they are there to provoke a feeling, thereby aligning your sympathies with his cause. In any case THIS is genuinely irrelevant as he offered a new analogy. Stop trying to find ways to ignore a person providing rational argument.