It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

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Originally Posted by Hali

New content > Reworked Youtube mode of old fight beaten by over 90% of the player base

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Please tell me and quote actual numbers on how 90% of the player base beat T9 already.

I would even accept this on T5.

Please allow me to laugh

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Making a third version of a fight, just for the people who either don't want to or are too lazy to put time into the game vs new content. I wonder which should take priority.

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normal mode => version we know
savage mode => unmodified version, no development time
story mode => damage downed and OH-KO eased/removed

tell me how that "third version" is taking so much time to have. Just some code lines to cut off of few numbers to change. You could also benefit not to belittle everyone not having the possibility to beat coil.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

I don't raid, so from my point of view the next turns of coil are a waste of development time that should have gone toward housing.

How's that sound?

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Making a third version of a fight, just for the people who either don't want to or are too lazy to put time into the game vs new content. I wonder which should take priority.

After reading through most of the posts before, I don't understand why it would be an issue to have a story-mode for coil.

As others have said, there is a player base that struggles with the mechanics that /do/ still want to experience the story. Not with someone else's character, but their own. OP didn't ask for special loot, or achivements, or really anything else but the chance of getting to see the cutscenes in the actual game.

As someone who stuggles with T5 to this day, it may not be difficult for everyone, but it is difficult content. Clearing T6 a couple weeks ago with some friends had us all screaming in chat that we did it!

TLDR: Keep hard content hard, let the people who want custscenes have an easier version. ...I know I would want it specifically for the lore.

I'd love to see a story mode version of coil.
So far all of my attempts to learn t5 have ended with the group disbanding after wiping at the conflags/fireballs a few times.

If it weren't for the story I wouldn't touch coil at all as I don't care about loot or feel like dedicating time to learning challenging fights with a static group.
Single player FF games have tended to have little or no story attached to the superbosses and even then they were easy to kill with the right setup with relatively little focus on execution.
I understand that I won't be able to clear all content in this game as there is more emphasis on execution and relying on teammates but it's frustrating to miss out on story because of it.
I actually have watched the available scenes on youtube but it would be great to have them available with my character in the Journal.

Whether or not this is a reasonable thing for SE to spend resources developing is an important consideration. I'd be curious to see some numbers regarding how many players have cleared t5 at this point.

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Originally Posted by Hali

You know very well what I meant, and that was a horribly cheap shot.

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I do know what you meant and it was no more cheap than your idiotic, elitist post. Tell you what. Lets do a thought experiment shall we? What percentage of the player base has cleared T5? 10% Maybe 15? Hell, lets say 25%. How do you think this game would be doing if all it catered to was that demographic? Oh right, it would be F2P with minimal support or shut down. What the OP is asking for is a chance to play through it without any reward other than seeing the story. Just like the normal mode primals.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Please let us enjoy the story you create, for those among us who couldn't care less about the stuff or those who just can't complete the requirements

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You already have a story mode for coil. It's called The Unending Journey & it's in your Inn room. You even take no damage :eek:

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

I do know what you meant and it was no more cheap than your idiotic, elitist post. Tell you what. Lets do a thought experiment shall we? What percentage of the player base has cleared T5? 10% Maybe 15? Hell, lets say 25%. How do you think this game would be doing if all it catered to was that demographic? Oh right, it would be F2P with minimal support or shut down. What the OP is asking for is a chance to play through it without any reward other than seeing the story. Just like the normal mode primals.

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But.. Story mode primals are part of the main scenario. They are supposed to be are supposed to be easy to clear. Coils are not, which is why they are harder to clear.

Am I the only one around here that remember the era of video games that were hard to win, and fun because of it?

Why are people playing video games if they are so damn easy? Why would you want to have a story mode? To avoid becoming actually good?

I pity those who dont get the adrenaline rush of finally clearing T9 after a long time, this is what coil is about, and why I like it. You gotta DESERVE to beat the game, not have it beat itself for you.

I lost interest in coil the moment people had to form statics in order to clear the content. And when DF groups were (and are largely still) laughably bad at it. I just don't care anymore.

As much as I would like to enjoy the story, I suppose that's what youtube is for. The story is really about the only thing I give a rats ass about in coil anyway, well, and a the rings, but oh well.

I don't need BiS to be a great player.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

But.. Story mode primals are part of the main scenario. They are supposed to be are supposed to be easy to clear. Coils are not, which is why they are harder to clear.

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They also give no rewards. Extreme mode primals are the equivalent content for coil.

Thus far, nobody has been able to articulate why a story mode coil is an actual problem. All I'm hearing is "you shouldn't be able to see the cutscene unless you can clear the harder mode" Which you could just as easily apply to the primals and "Development time for my stuff!" which isn't a convincing argument at all.

It would actually make it better if they added a story mode and never introduced Echo for Coil/Ex's.

They made challanging content overly easy for people who could kill it/wanted to learn to kill it, yet those who could not kill it, still can't kill it...

Only really made the fight's even easier to Sell, hence servers are full of merc's who are not even that skilled.

I'll humour you and say they have story coil. It would be gated like savage is from normal, yes? For example;

Player A defeats Binding Coil of Bahamut (easy). But has not defeated normal.
Player A can attempt Second Coil of Bahamut (easy). Player A clears Second Coil of Bahamut (easy).
Player A can not attempt Second Coil of Bahamut (normal) because (s)he hasn't defeated Binding Coil of Bahamut (normal).
Player A can attempt Third Coil of Bahamut (easy) but is barred from Third Coil of Bahamut (normal) because of the previous predicament.

Is this the train of thought? I believe this is reasonable as it would be exactly like how savage is now.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

But.. Story mode primals are part of the main scenario. They are supposed to be are supposed to be easy to clear. Coils are not, which is why they are harder to clear.

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because they give loot. If it was only for side story reason that the coil was hard, it would have no loot. Also, if it was only for the sake of being hard and giving loot, it would be like solo FF : little to no story behind it.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

Am I the only one around here that remember the era of video games that were hard to win, and fun because of it?

Why are people playing video games if they are so damn easy? Why would you want to have a story mode? To avoid becoming actually good?

I pity those who dont get the adrenaline rush of finally clearing T9 after a long time, this is what coil is about, and why I like it. You gotta DESERVE to beat the game, not have it beat itself for you.

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I remember that era, and sorry to say I never had fun repeating over and over the same 30 seconds of gameplay until I could do they blind. I actually enjoyed a lot more the era when story was placed above ridiculous difficulty based on the will to make people forget the games were so short (once you know them, none of the oldies last more than 10 hours)

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I'll humour you and say they have story coil. It would be gated like savage is from normal, yes? For example;

Player A defeats Binding Coil of Bahamut (easy). But has not defeated normal.
Player A can attempt Second Coil of Bahamut (easy). Player A clears Second Coil of Bahamut (easy).
Player A can not attempt Second Coil of Bahamut (normal) because (s)he hasn't defeated Binding Coil of Bahamut (normal).
Player A can attempt Third Coil of Bahamut (easy) but is barred from Third Coil of Bahamut (normal) because of the previous predicament.

Is this the train of thought? I believe this is reasonable as it would be exactly like how savage is now.

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this is the exact way it should work. Unless SE suddenly decides that T5 is no longer required to attempts T6 anymore, but this should not happen

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Please tell me and quote actual numbers on how 90% of the player base beat T9 already.

I would even accept this on T5.

Please allow me to laugh

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Estimation for come 2.4, considering how T5 went after the echo buff was added to it. We'll know the real figures come FanFest and the census. My money is down on around that mark for people clearing T5.

Oh as a request too, please allow me to laugh at your lack of skill.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

I do know what you meant and it was no more cheap than your idiotic, elitist post. Tell you what. Lets do a thought experiment shall we? What percentage of the player base has cleared T5? 10% Maybe 15? Hell, lets say 25%. How do you think this game would be doing if all it catered to was that demographic? Oh right, it would be F2P with minimal support or shut down. What the OP is asking for is a chance to play through it without any reward other than seeing the story. Just like the normal mode primals.

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It's hardly an elitist point, (my above point is though, know the difference) I only pointed out that the devs should focus on new content instead of patching unbroken old content.
Ooooh! A thought experiment! My favorite!
Hmmm... It seems that you're off by quite a large margin when it comes to T5 clears. Considering that PF was filled with T5 groups for the first month or two of 2.2 and now it's devoid of them, we're safe to assume that most people have downed T5.



You and OP may see it as wanting to go through the fights with no rewards and easier mechanics, but to everyone who is against this implementation, it's a waste of an already stretched out dev team's time. They should focus on forwarding the game instead of jumping back to cater to people who can't move in time for Twisters or Cursed Voice.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Is this the train of thought? I believe this is reasonable as it would be exactly like how savage is now.

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That's what many people want and I do believe it's reasonable.

FF has never been a series I came to for challenge.
It's one I play to enjoy the story, music, see my characters build up from nothing into heroes, and here in XIV to spend time with my friends.

I'm predicting the t5 clearance rate to be about 1/3 at most.

After reading 6 pages I still don't understandy why youtube isn't a sufficient answer to this?

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Originally Posted by Hali

New content > Reworked Youtube mode of old fight beaten by over 90% of the player base

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90% isn't even close. I'll be generous and say maybe 30% of the playerbase has cleared T5. It's probably much lower than that. I gave up on T5 along time ago before any echo was introduced and finally started trying again last week. 20% echo and everyone in i100+ gear and in 10 different parties i only saw the twister phase once for a few seconds. Every other party wipes at the 2nd set of divebombs. Every time. Doesn't matter how good I am there's always a few in the party that screw it up. There should be a story mode for those people. I'm going to keep trying but it's clearly not going to be easy.

SE knows how many have cleared and they should know they are in trouble if things don't improve. Players will only be left out for so long before quitting. And with every new coil there are less people clearing it.

Problem is, coil is essentially a side story. Like traditional FF where you have the optional big/bad mega-boss that is harder than anything in the normal story. For this reason there doesn't need to be a story mode for coil. It's not about loot or shiny gear, but about defeating hard content to gain access to the story.

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Originally Posted by Hali

Pot. Kettle.

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What are you talking about?

I wouldn't mind something like this. I haven't even attempted T5 once. The elitism/bad attitudes have pretty much robbed me of any interest in doing any content in this game that is difficult enough to cause rage over small mistakes. I can learn mechanics easily, don't get me wrong, I just don't like sitting there listening to bickering and the inevitable disband when one or two people can't hang. I cleared the first three ex primals and that was it for me as far as endgame goes.

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

What are you talking about?

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Please see:

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

It's equally as arrogant to assert that the devs spend their time on you, who is unwilling to put in the minute effort required to clear something like T5, after all the nerfs and echo buffs they've given to you.

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Originally Posted by Hali

It's hardly an elitist point, (my above point is though, know the difference) I only pointed out that the devs should focus on new content instead of patching unbroken old content.

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You mean like Savage Coil right? Was I not supposed to mention that? Oh right, that's content for YOU. So that's cool right?

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Hmmm... It seems that you're off by quite a large margin when it comes to T5 clears. Considering that PF was filled with T5 groups for the first month or two of 2.2 and now it's devoid of them, we're safe to assume that most people have downed T5.

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Got numbers for that? Because without them, I'm not buying it. The few census slides I saw didn't mention coil clears, so I'd like to know where your numbers are coming from.

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You and OP may see it as wanting to go through the fights with no rewards and easier mechanics, but to everyone who is against this implementation, it's a waste of an already stretched out dev team's time. They should focus on forwarding the game instead of jumping back to cater to people who can't move in time for Twisters or Cursed Voice.

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Here's the thing. You say "waste of developers time" for anything that isn't meant for you. I don't. I'll ask the question another way: What percentage of the game population self identifies as hardcore raiders?

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Got numbers for that? Because without them, I'm not buying it. The few census slides I saw didn't mention coil clears, so I'd like to know where your numbers are coming from.

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http://spreadeaglepatriot.files.word...08/ostrich.jpg
This is you.
You're fine saying that X% of the player base can't complete T5, but the moment someone says something different, you stick your head in the sand and say they need to post proof.
The hypocrisy is astounding.

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Originally Posted by zemogFC

After reading 6 pages I still don't understandy why youtube isn't a sufficient answer to this?

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It is currently the only alternative, however, watching it on youtube from someone else's game doesn't usually (or at least not always) have the same quality as you would get if you saw it in-game on your own PC/PS4 (lolps3?). Visual and sound quality are usually lowered, at least for me, when watching a youtube video when compared to how my PC can handle the game.

Plus, you know, maybe we'd want to see our own characters interacting with the story characters.

If you don't understand why I would want a story mode Coil, please see the bottom of page 5 for my reasons.

Though I think everybody else's post supporting the idea are equally adequate as well.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

It's equally as arrogant to assert that the devs spend their time on you, who is unwilling to put in the minute effort required to clear something like T5, after all the nerfs and echo buffs they've given to you.

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Are you even reading the things you type? "assert that the devs spend time on you"? You are a freaking textbook definition of arrogance. You're suggesting that the players are worthy of development time. If T6-9 vanished tomorrow, the vast majority of players wouldn't even notice. Who's the larger demographic here? You guys? Nope.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Are you even reading the things you type? "assert that the devs spend time on you"? You are a freaking textbook definition of arrogance. You're suggesting that the players are worthy of development time. If T6-9 vanished tomorrow, the vast majority of players wouldn't even notice. Who's the larger demographic here? You guys? Nope.

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I'm going to take a page from your book here. Post proof on this or stop bringing it up.

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Originally Posted by zemogFC

After reading 6 pages I still don't understandy why youtube isn't a sufficient answer to this?

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Becuase it's a stupid answer? The whole game is on youtube. Why play anything.

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Hmmm... It seems that you're off by quite a large margin when it comes to T5 clears. Considering that PF was filled with T5 groups for the first month or two of 2.2 and now it's devoid of them, we're safe to assume that most people have downed T5.

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I see training parties for T5 on Moogle every single day.

This has been a very entertaining thread. I see both arguments but I think that I'd have to side on the "give people story mode coil" side. It might be a "side story" but for all intents and purposes, the story in 2nd coil is pretty important and has grave implications on the rest of the narrative. After beating it, I was definitely like "oh snap" and watched all the CS's again back in my inn room to reiterate what I had just seen. It would suck if I wasn't a raider and I never got to see those CS.

Having said that.. they are all on youtube. Having said THAT, youtube should NOT be a requirement to experience any content, particularly game changing cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

This is you.
You're fine saying that X% of the player base can't complete T5, but the moment someone says something different, you stick your head in the sand and say they need to post proof.
The hypocrisy is astounding.

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I'll counter anecdotal evidence with anecdotal evidence then.

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Hmmm... It seems that you're off by quite a large margin when it comes to T5 clears. Considering that PF was filled with T5 groups for the first month or two of 2.2 and now it's devoid of them, we're safe to assume that most people have downed T5.

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No, it's because they've all given up. Players in my old FC threw up their hands in disgust when the 2nd static couldn't handle it. The main static, the best geared players in the FC, spent months beating their heads against it.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

You mean like Savage Coil right? Was I not supposed to mention that? Oh right, that's content for YOU. So that's cool right?

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Content in general is content. I'm not asking for specific content catered towards myself, unlike yourself.
Also, I don't see what you're trying to get at here. Savage Coil was added in as something that was ALREADY DEVELOPED.
Shock, horror, gasp! It's like you completely ignored every scrap of information about the savage mode fights. Please educate yourself on them before trying again.

Also, yeah, I totally went "Hey, Yoshida, make Savage Coil for me please." Completely for me wasn't it?

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Got numbers for that? Because without them, I'm not buying it. The few census slides I saw didn't mention coil clears, so I'd like to know where your numbers are coming from.

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Basic observation skills.
Also, where are your statistics to disprove me?

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Here's the thing. You say "waste of developers time" for anything that isn't meant for you. I don't. I'll ask the question another way: What percentage of the game population self identifies as hardcore raiders?

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Please actually read what I'm saying. I haven't asked for any content tailored for my play style. The people doing that right now are you and most people who agree with OP.

I really don't understand why or how people could be against this idea.

THERE WOULD BE LITERALLY NO REWARDS OUTSIDE OF BEING ABLE TO ENJOY THE STORY.

It's not like I would be doing a super easy mode of coil and getting i110/115 gear as well. No, just doing it to unlock the story. That's it, to be able to enjoy the story without the headache of conforming to a static and being forced to play at SPECIFIC times in order to bang my head against a wall for a month or two before finally being able to enjoy the full story.

There is no reward. Not even an achievement for this. It would just be to enjoy the story of coil without the headache, and yet still feel like you got to somewhat experience what coil is like.

With zero reward other than story completion, I just don't understand how anyone could be against this idea. Do you really need to stroke your epeen that much?

Uh, why are people even arguing this?

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Originally Posted by TGS Live Letter

Topic 15: Coil story
Eventually coils will be redundant content so harder for newbies to complete. Might look into ways for people to get story without doing it after coil storyline is wrapped up

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You don't decide how devs spend their time, they have this planned already, and I'd say they had this planned months ago.

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Originally Posted by Hali

I haven't asked for any content tailored for my play style. The people doing that right now are you and everyone who agrees with OP.

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I agree with the OP, yet the proposed addition has no interest to me personally at all. I have T9 on farm.

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Originally Posted by Hali

Content in general is content. I'm not asking for specific content catered towards myself, unlike yourself.
Also, I don't see what you're trying to get at here. Savage Coil was added in as something that was ALREADY DEVELOPED.

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and likely took about as much resource as a story mode coil would take. SE developed a separate version of an existing raid for a specific population of players. That's what the OP is asking for. When they did it for raiders, it was fine and dandy. When it's suggested for non-raiders, suddenly the sky is falling.

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Basic observation skills.

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See my comment above. I've seen plenty of people give up on T5, much less on T6-9.

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Please actually read what I'm saying. I haven't asked for any content tailored for my play style.

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No, you're asking for someone's request that isn't for you not be developed. Totally different right?

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Originally Posted by Ecks007

I really don't understand why or how people could be against this idea.

THERE WOULD BE LITERALLY NO REWARDS OUTSIDE OF BEING ABLE TO ENJOY THE STORY.

It's not like I would be doing a super easy mode of coil and getting i110/115 gear as well. No, just doing it to unlock the story. That's it, to be able to enjoy the story without the headache of conforming to a static and being forced to play at SPECIFIC times in order to bang my head against a wall for a month or two before finally being able to enjoy the full story.

There is no reward. Not even an achievement for this. It would just be to enjoy the story of coil without the headache, and yet still feel like you got to somewhat experience what coil is like.

With zero reward other than story completion, I just don't understand how anyone could be against this idea. Do you really need to stroke your epeen that much?

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http://i.imgur.com/HdLgb58.jpg

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

I agree with the OP, yet the proposed addition has no interest to me personally at all. I have T9 on farm.

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I'll fix that to "most people" then.

So youtube isn't suffcient because you want better visuals? Oooookay...

Instead, you want to kill some trash mobs and watch the cutscenes in-game. Got it, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Hali

image snipped

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That refers to you right? Because from what I see, he's getting the point.

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Originally Posted by zemogFC

So youtube isn't suffcient because you want better visuals? Oooookay...

Instead, you want to kill some trash mobs and watch the cutscenes in-game. Got it, thanks.

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I cleared t5, idgaf about story mode. Stupid answer is still stupid. Every new game is on youtube now, kill trash mobs and watch cutscenes in-game is every single fight in this game. You're just a troll (I hope so anyway) and I'll stop replying to you.

I'll say it again. Please articulate for me why this would negatively affect raiders at all. The final coil is coming in 2.4. No impact there. You get your raid. Likely the savage modes are developed in parallel, so you'll get those too. How is this affecting you personally if someone can experience a watered-down version of the fights and some cut scenes?