Latest comment from Yoshida regarding Housing + Inventory space issue

Good words.

Sometimes I like to visit random wards and trespass random homes *cough* Then I see how much FC's have dedicated their time to decorate their little base, it's really cool to see that; I even feel envious. But if everyone could simply get houses... I probably wouldn't even bother with it.

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

I said Live letters. not dev posts, blogs.

Ive been around since the start. and I havent seen such dedication from a producer, Like yoshi. So ill give him the benefit of the doubt

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I'm with you man, but it's hard to even argue when you read posts like this:

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Originally Posted by maxthunder1

Cut him some slack? Really ? No!!! He stated things would not happen at the end of 1.0 but we all know how that turned out, they basicly lied to the players, and now he says that the information was vague for player housing? Really? Thats a load of crock right there as players have quoted what he has said. The fact is he didnt bother to bring the changes to the players and got major flack for it.

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Right after your (or someone else's) eloquent posts. You basically are fighting an uphill battle against a ton of entitled players who feel Yoshi should kiss their feet and pamper their every need. I have nothing against people being mad; it was a bad move on Yoshi's behalf, one he could have waited on even longer for a better solution. However, it's when you read all of these posts and responses with nothing but vitriol is when you realize there's no arguing with children. Regardless of the fact, this will be like a distant memory in the future that no one will remember.

I'm also in your shoes -- I've also never seen such dedication come from anyone in any form of development that rivals Yoshi-P's.

Like a lot of people already said price is NOT the major problem with housing...it's the availability that the biggest problem so as far as I am concerned you wasted your question towards him. There is only enough houses especially small ones for less than a couple percent of the entire player base even after 2.4 no matter how much gil you have there is still only enough for a microscopic fraction of players in this game. Someone needs to push him on that not the price. Everyone who plays can save up and earn enough to buy one (if was enough plots) but only a couple percent can actually get one in reality as it stands now and after 2.4, locking around 98% of the player base out of the possibility of owning one regardless of how much gil you might have because there is not enough plots even after 2.4.

Most people thought buying a personal house would only be few million based on his claim from before earlier in the year and prior to him changing the meaning of his comment only after the patch came out so he might not have lied but he sure as hell misled people, they did not save up or retain 40-80mil gil for personal house and spent most of the gil on other things leaving only enough that they thought would be enough and that is the main reason why some servers have large plots etc remaining. If they knew he would screw them over in such a big way they would of saved up a hell of a lot more prior to patch coming out and you would have had zero medium or large plots left too within minutes or couple hours. The problem not being addressed at all, not even with the crappy 2.4 quantity they plan to bring in is there will still not be enough plots for even a fraction of the player base even if they save up for it now that people know you need 40-80mil to get one at all on most servers as just like when 2.38 came out most servers sold out of smalls in seconds and the same will happen in 2.4.

If you want a pat on the back for asking him a pointless question about pricing which matters a thousand times less than availability, sorry but not getting one from me because you failed to actually grasp the real problem and failed to ask him about that problem. You are just like he is, out of touch by focusing on price instead of availability. This is the way it currently works with 100% of players have the option of saving up enough to buy one if one existed, 98% of players have no chance and no option of buying one no matter how much gil they save because not enough exists now or after 2.4. As such price vs availability, the latter is the problem here not the former so I wish people would stop being so ignorant on the issue only focusing about price like you did when had chance to get to the root of real problem when questioning him which is availability.

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Originally Posted by Waffles

Housing is a personal achievement. Do you know how I have come to that conclusion? The game's director said it is. People really need to understand that. This game's housing is a gil sink and something you're are supposed to dedicate TIME towards getting it. If you want casual housing this is not the game for you.

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Please tell me you weren't serious with this, and that this was sarcasm over the internet.

housing is the last place I would want to get thrown in the pit of ridiculousness that is hardcore and casual...

Especially in light of other mmos having a better more expansive system for cheaper compared to this.

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Originally Posted by Waffles

Housing is a personal achievement. Do you know how I have come to that conclusion? The game's director said it is. People really need to understand that. This game's housing is a gil sink and something you're are supposed to dedicate TIME towards getting it. If you want casual housing this is not the game for you.

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Whao it is like saying ATMA farming takes great skill.

Achievement does not mean skill. If you think it does, then you got a lot to learn in life

Getting your Relic takes low to no skill, upgrading that Relic takes no skill, it takes no skill infusing materia into it. But upgrading your Relic to max upgrade is an ACHIEVEMENT, not many others can or will do this.

Dedication does not require skill, but perseverance and effort to reach your goal.

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Originally Posted by Waffles

Housing is a personal achievement. Do you know how I have come to that conclusion? The game's director said it is. People really need to understand that. This game's housing is a gil sink and something you're are supposed to dedicate TIME towards getting it. If you want casual housing this is not the game for you.

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But Yoshi also said this in the Letter from the Producer:

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Q: I've noticed a lot of the systems recently introduced to the game require a lot of time to complete (The Hunt, Zodiac Weapons, etc.). Do you plan to focus on such time-consuming systems and features in the future?
A: Considering that both patches 2.2 and 2.3 introduced new systems to the game that require considerable amounts of time to complete, I understand how it may appear that the game's direction is steering toward overly time-consuming activities. However, just as I've mentioned in previous interviews, we consider FFXIV: ARR to be akin to a theme park, and we're working to provide a wide variety of activities for players to enjoy............... it may seem as though we're shifting focus toward time-consuming systems, but rest assured this is not the case, and we plan to strike a balance with party-based activities as we move forward.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...809-11-2014%29

How are theme park MMOs supposed to be grindy? And the buying of housing shouldn't be used as a gil sink. Expensive paintings, furniture, interactive decor sold from npcs are proper gil sinks.

And if you decide to get a house for bragging rights, how would people without access to gardening plots get their own gardening stuff (and other future content linked to housing) if they are gated behind the high gil prices or the lack of housing lots available?

If SE wants housing to be a personal achievement, they're gonna end up with many beautiful but unused houses eating up space on their servers. It's better if they make it more affordable and increase the variety of activities that can be done in there. That way the server space will be put to good use.

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

Achievement does not mean skill. If you think it does, then you got a lot to learn in life

Getting your Relic takes low to no skill, upgrading that Relic takes no skill, it takes no skill infusing materia into it. But upgrading your Relic to max upgrade is an ACHIEVEMENT, not many others can or will do this.

Dedication does not require skill, but perseverance and effort to reach your goal.

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Why does this need to be an expensive ball and chain around maintaining our subscriptions?

It's not combat, its not a title, I don't go around perusing other houses (I'm too busy "lazing about" with mining and df) , and It doesn't raise my dps or better myself as a character by getting one.

Why all the red tape and baggage just for your own place to sit down?

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

Achievement does not mean skill. If you think it does, then you got a lot to learn in life

Getting your Relic takes low to no skill, upgrading that Relic takes no skill, it takes no skill infusing materia into it. But upgrading your Relic to max upgrade is an ACHIEVEMENT, not many others can or will do this.

Dedication does not require skill, but perseverance and effort to reach your goal.

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But for personal housing? As if they actually have enough for everyone in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Lazearus

How are theme park MMOs supposed to be grindy? And the buying of housing shouldn't be used as a gil sink. Expensive paintings, furniture, interactive decor sold from npcs are proper gil sinks..

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Theme parks have always been grindy, though.

Anyways, that quote looks like it is directed at battle content, not fluff.

Fluff in this game has always been time consuming and probably always will be if the people in charge of it don't change. Housing, mounts, minions, etc.

They decided to go with a "all gil at once" approach instead of what most MMOs do which is upkeep. In other MMOs with "open world" housing if you stop paying for it, your house is eventually foreclosed and someone else can use the spot. They shot themselves in the foot with this one. They thought of it automatically being removed due to inactivity but people didn't like that.

Yoshi: If you don't have enough gil for housing you're not trying hard enough.

lol.

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Originally Posted by Lazearus

How are theme park MMOs supposed to be grindy?

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You're kidding, right?

Theme park MMOs are based purely on creating a grind; that's how they keep people around while they build new rides. This is why MMO developers need to start embracing sandbox aspects, no matter how hard they work, players are always going to burn through content faster than they can make it, and the grind they use to slow players down just gradually annoys players. Sandboxes let players create their own content, though that's usually easiest with PvP which most players here seem to hate. If we had something like a massive FCvFC PvP area (with FC alliances), that could be considered a sandbox; we'd create our own rivalries and our own stories, the developers just need to make us the box and it'll keep players entertained for ages.

there would be no RMT issues if they didn't make all of the vanity items cost so much in time/gil. Make gill worthless and the RMTs won't have a job.

That said, gil is in no way at all the problem people have with personal housing.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Why does this need to be an expensive ball and chain around maintaining our subscriptions?

It's not combat, its not a title, I don't go around perusing other houses (I'm too busy "lazing about" with mining and df) , and It doesn't raise my dps or better myself as a character by getting one.

Why all the red tape and baggage just for your own place to sit down?

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It's only a ball and chain, when you think it to be so.

There's tons of other things you can do in game to get a sense of fulfillment out of the game itself. The problem lies in people believing that they need to do a specific task in game to gain that sense of fulfillment, then in turn they complain about the work required to get there.

There never was a certain time when Yoshi-P didn't say that relic upgrades wouldn't require work. People just go into the upgrade process with the mindset that it should be fairly quick and painless process and give them the max level near immediately. It's casual content in itself, which you can do at your own pace, however fast or slow. It's the typical gamer's sense of entitlement that makes it a bigger problem than it really is.

Nothing is stopping players from working on a UAT weapon or doing High Allagan. Nothing is stopping them from working on T5, Leviathan, or Ramuh for a weapon either. No matter what weapon path you take, there will be some measure of work required regardless. Relic upgrading is simply the easiest. Regardless, SE is also running a business in ARR. They can't just willingly give out weapons and equipment easily, lest players complain that there's "no content."

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Originally Posted by Chasely

there would be no RMT issues if they didn't make all of the vanity items cost so much in time/gil. Make gill worthless and the RMTs won't have a job.

That said, gil is in no way at all the problem people have with personal housing.

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Actually it's half and half with the community. Some say it's too pricey while others it's lack of lots. My rebuttal for lots is this, 2.38 only added 160 lots per server which isn't a lot but if he would have pushed back housing to 2.4 you would still be waiting.

I think my biggest concern about housing isn't even the lack of availability, though that is a serious concern on my server, but the fact that FC and personal housing have the same price tag/wards. Competition is bad enough, but that may even out in time - the biggest problem here is that individual players are expected to save up amounts that were originally intended for large groups of people to work toward together. THAT is what I'd like to hear something on. How does it equal out? You can easily have 10, 50, 300 members save up gil together for an FC house, but expect the same for individuals...? One person can't do the work of an entire FC.

Yes, yes, I'm aware people are paying for houses as individuals - hell, I bought a small for a friend - but the fact remains that individuals still shouldn't be expected to do the same amount of work that's expected of a large group of people. I'd like to hear what he has to say on that subject.

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Originally Posted by Rennah

Yes, yes, I'm aware people are paying for houses as individuals - hell, I bought a small for a friend - but the fact remains that individuals still shouldn't be expected to do the same amount of work that's expected of a large group of people. I'd like to hear what he has to say on that subject.

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It's to preserve the value of the house/land. If individuals could buy for what currently is the exact same house minus personal chambers for cheaper than an FC, large FCs that worked for months to buy a medium or large would feel cheated.

They would have to offer something completely different for it to be cheaper and put them in new areas or instance them. Work they either don't want to do or don't have the resources to do, since they are working on an expansion in the background along with the patches.

I mean I guess they could offer the same house for cheaper to individuals but we'll just be back here reading complaints about how individuals get around the same quality house for cheaper than an FC.

I think the main thing to be worried about is that Yoshi's replies are basically "deal with it" and unconcerned.

I don't care about the price. It can be 4mil, 5mil, 10mil, whatever! The fact remains that those who are still working on getting the gil or just can't be on when the patch drops, will never get a house because you got the people who either stay awake all night until patch drops or set their alarm to get up. They all sit and wait for that patch to drop just to get their house. Leaving those who have to work, school, etc with nothing because it "limited". Please, doubling the wards in 2.4? Does he really think this is going to fix the issue? And let not forget the people who are buying 4mil plots and reselling them to people for 10+mil.

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

I said Live letters. not dev posts, blogs.

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Carbine's weekly (every Tuesday at 11am PDT) Nexus Report is a video stream interacting in real time with players and giving them access to a variety of devs on a variety of topics about the game. At least know what the facts are before you make claims about other developers.

This whole personal housing thing stinks of the fundamental flaw behind SE's housing system - and Yoshi states it in the very quote in the OP. They think the house itself is the reward, and that all the effort should be put into endlessly grinding gil to earn it. Because grinding gil is totally fun, yup.

They'd make a lot more people a lot happier if they flipped that philosophy upsidedown. The house should be a given. The reward should come from upgrading and decorating. Of course, that's not actually possible with the absolutely bare-bones housing system SE has created. It's lightyears behind most other MMOs in terms of customizability, which means I guess they had to put up that gil barrier... because otherwise people would run out of stuff to do with housing very quickly.

It's a huge flaw. Good thing I can go chill elsewhere in a game with a housing system that is actually fun.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Actually it's half and half with the community. Some say it's too pricey while others it's lack of lots. My rebuttal for lots is this, 2.38 only added 160 lots per server which isn't a lot but if he would have pushed back housing to 2.4 you would still be waiting.

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Yes we would still be waiting. ALL of us would still be waiting instead of 160 less people waiting. This rebuttal is dead in the water.

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Originally Posted by ZReport

It's only a ball and chain, when you think it to be so.

There's tons of other things you can do in game to get a sense of fulfillment out of the game itself. The problem lies in people believing that they need to do a specific task in game to gain that sense of fulfillment, then in turn they complain about the work required to get there.

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This is absurd. Oh, I just believe I enjoy housing systems in MMOs! If I flip a magic switch in my brain, I can suddenly find them no longer fun, and magically things that I didn't find fun before will be fun! Because everyone likes the same things and everyone can freely change what they like or don't like on another person's whim!

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Originally Posted by Cylla

I don't care about the price. It can be 4mil, 5mil, 10mil, whatever! The fact remains that those who are still working on getting the gil or just can't be on when the patch drops, will never get a house because you got the people who either stay awake all night until patch drops or set their alarm to get up. They all sit and wait for that patch to drop just to get their house. Leaving those who have to work, school, etc with nothing because it "limited". Please, doubling the wards in 2.4? Does he really think this is going to fix the issue? And let not forget the people who are buying 4mil plots and reselling them to people for 10+mil.

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Is this actually happening? I've seen a lot of people post fear-mongering theories that this WOULD happen, but with no way to feasibly "sell" a plot of land if you bought it as an individual I have yet to see it actually take place on my server (not through zone shouts or PF, at least).

I dont care about the price, What I'm concerned about is will there even be ANY plots avaliable once I can actually save the money. With how fast plots sell out, even at the prices they are at, I dont even want to bother trying to save cause I doubt there will be anything left.

Raine - ask him if he sees the bigger picture. If he's aware that this personal housing debacle is only like the snowball that started the avalanche that had been waiting to happen. Because he seems way too adamant that pricing is everyone's primary issue here, with availability being secondary. While that is true, when comes strictly to personal housing, it is entirely not the whole case here.

The issue here, on one hand, is how the whole thing was handled: if they've known, since 2.1 (9 months!) that this is how it was gonna be - why didn't they say so? If they were working on something else that was scrapped in the last minute - why don't they tell us what that was and what happened to it? Communication between devs and players has been such a cornerstone of FFXIV (lack of it in 1.0 and emphasis of it in ARR), so, really, whatever happened to that? Extensively, why do us, non-Japanese players, have to feel like we're just ignored, time and time again?

Also the issue this managed to fester, on the other hand, is the serious concern we now have: the game is just one year old, and we've already heard server/infrastructure limitations as the main reason way too often for so many things getting limited or outright not implemented at all. Is this how it's gonna be, is this what's down the road for ARR? Because if it is, then we might as well start thinking about designing the coffin and the gravestone of the game.

On another, but somewhat related note, you could ask him if he enjoys gating content. Because for 2+ million players, with a casual nature of the game being emphasised so much (everyone's able to play the way they want, in a tempo they want), we sure as hell are being cornered and put into grindmills over and over and over again.

Hard restrictions:

• gardening - have a high enough ranked FC with deep enough coffers to afford the necessary facilities
• chocobo training - have a high enough ranked FC with deep enough coffers to afford the necessary facilities
• colouring your chocobo - have a high enough ranked FC with deep enough coffers to afford the necessary facilities
• glamour - prisms: lv50 DoH classes
• glamour - gear: lv50 DoH/DoL classes
• extreme primals: good luck doing any of them beyond Garuda (and even that is a gamble) with PUGs
• Coil: good luck doing any of it beyond T3 (and even those are a gamble) with PUGs

Gil sinks:

• housing - no comment, personal or FC doesn't even make any difference
• glamour - gear: full HQ AF for your DoL/DoH classes and better have it all overmelded, else don't even think of creating/finding most stuff
• glamour - prisms: the price of those is just insane considering what they do (but probably thanks to the nonsensical requirement to craft them)
• Novus and basically anything that requires materia - if you take the "easier" route

Time sinks:

• FATEs: whatever it is for, having to camp often hours just to complete one FATE is anything but fun
• glamour - gear: don't want to / can't pay for a certain piece, good luck desynthing items until you finally get it
• relic weapons: anything from atma onwards is a mindless grindfest
• Novus and anything that requires materia - if you take the "cheaper" route

RNG:

• crafting HQ (or even NQ in some cases) items beyond lv50
• gathering HQ (or even NQ in some cases) items beyond lv50
• atma
• all the loot rolls (absolutely no way to influence "luck" even in the slightest amount)
• chocobo colouring (just ridiculous, as if it wasn't gated enough already)
• Novus and anything that requires materia - if you take the "cheaper" route

...obviously these lists aren't complete (only the ones I personally know/care about), and are, individually, not long either. But if you consider all of them together, a generic casual player will have a hard time deciding which one to spend their limited time on to work for (and that's considering they aren't locked out of content by any of the hard restrictions). And I don't think it takes a genius to see that, perhaps, not everyone wants to spend their every online minute just throwing themselves at one of these contents. I also agree that some of these are perfectly fine as they are (a rookie lv50 shouldn't be able to complete T9 blindfolded); but most of them are just arbitrary gates to content that should be fun, content that should be enjoyed by everybody. And these lists keep growing, it's already alienating people, forcing them into quitting. Which is something they should be concerned about right now, in my opinion, if they don't want an early funeral to ARR.

So, yeah, if I was you, I'd try to highlight these things to him. Obviously too much at once and most probably needs some thinking and even then would be too long to reply to. But he should start thinking about it. And when he's done thinking about it, he could perhaps give us answers in a nice long Letter from the Producer.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Is this actually happening? I've seen a lot of people post fear-mongering theories that this WOULD happen, but with no way to feasibly "sell" a plot of land if you bought it as an individual I have yet to see it actually take place on my server (not through zone shouts or PF, at least).

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From what I've been hearing (I haven't seen shouts myself on hyperion) is that people buy up the plot and don't put a building permit on the land. Because they don't have to build a house on it right away, they can just hold on to the plot. Therefore, selling it for 10x more then they bought the plot for to someone who is willing to pay that doubled price just to have a house. My guess is the person buying would had to have 14mil in pocket. 10mil to the person who reselling the plot and another 4mil just to buy the plot. Again, this is what I've been hearing and can't actually prove it myself on Hyperion but sadly, I do not doubt that people are doing this. However, I will add also that the day of the patch drop I did see a house in ward 4 of mist go up for 4mil and then was quickly bought out before I had even gotten to it. Was it a trade? Or was it someone else just being quicker. I don't know but only one can assume at this rate. I suppose one way to find out would be to go to all the areas that are sold and see if their houses on them. If there aren't you can only assume that them lands are being held on to and resold by the person for double what they paid.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

This is absurd. Oh, I just believe I enjoy housing systems in MMOs! If I flip a magic switch in my brain, I can suddenly find them no longer fun, and magically things that I didn't find fun before will be fun! Because everyone likes the same things and everyone can freely change what they like or don't like on another person's whim!

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Pretty bad response, but typical of entitled-minded people who have no better argument. Don't be mad because a precedence is set before you and you aren't up enough to meet the bar. If you want a personal house, make the required amount of gil for it. Complaining about a lack of space is a non issue that will correct itself with patch 2.4 and subsequent patches. So it now becomes a problem of how hard you want to work to make gil to purchase the house.

Don't want to make money for the house? Stop complaining and quit or go do something else. Same thing applies to everything else, from Hunts, to Coil 2, to crafting and gathering, and everything inbetween. No one will care about your well being or if you quit or not.

tl;dr: You can like whatever you want to like in the game, but realize there's various levels of work required that you need to put in to get whatever it is you are looking for. Using the lack of wards as an excuse is also pretty poor, because it's a known problem that came about even before patch was released and they are working on correcting the issue.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

They'd make a lot more people a lot happier if they flipped that philosophy upsidedown. The house should be a given. The reward should come from upgrading and decorating.

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This. The 'achievement' should be what you accomplish with it, rather than just getting the ability to make use of the system at all...


I've never been fond of instances in the style this game uses and have, for quite a while, hit my limit as far as playing through those with any degree of regularity goes.
Likewise, I am not fond of playing the market or any of that jazz; I like gathering and crafting for myself, but playing the economy minigame is a complete no-go.

Housing was the one form of content that I actually looked forward to at this point, as it is (or should be at least), a laid-back and fun experience I can just take at my own pace.
By saying, "Try harder to make gil", it's basically saying "Force yourself to do the stuff you don't enjoy and eventually you may get to have some fun."

I don't mind if upgrades, side-grades, etc. require doing a bit more of this-and-that, but by front-loading it all, the appeal of even this content is lost.

And the concept that making it cheaper encourages RMT?
:-/
Just admit that it's a way of artificially-gating it purely so that the availability issues won't be more obvious since you don't want to be on the hook for buying new/better hardware. The RMT argument doesn't even remotely work here.

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

I said Live letters. not dev posts, blogs.

Ive been around since the start. and I havent seen such dedication from a producer, Like yoshi. So ill give him the benefit of the doubt

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Carbine does 2 livestreams on twitch every week.

Blizzard has done 2 in the last 2 months that I can see in the battle.net launcher quickly skimming it

Nice try though

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Originally Posted by ZReport

Pretty bad response, but typical of entitled-minded people who have no better argument.

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Hilarious, as I'm perfectly happy to put work in when said work is more than just "grind gil". I have dumped an inordinate amount of time, gold, and effort in constructing homes in WildStar. I am not work-averse; I am inappropriate entry barrier-averse.

At this point, I just want more inventory space. I have multiple jobs and crafting leveled up. Would wanna do more, but my armory is nearing its limits

Why do people keep asking YoshiP the WRONG questions? Ask him what his solution is for the AVAILABILITY of housing (and why it's EXACTLY THE SAME as FC housing, thereby DEVALUING that "achievement"). I can accept he wants it to be an "achievement" (though it's the most rock stupid thing I have ever heard come out of his mouth") - but I HAVE the gil for the house I want.

There just aren't any, and I can guarantee you that on Balmung, come patch 2.4, by the time I am done with work and log on there STILL won't be any.

Ask the right questions, please. Stop talking about Gil. This is why he thinks that is the big issue when it's not.

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

So I first started off by saying 'There was a chaotic response to housing earlier this week; what do you think about that?'.

His response -

'Hmm.. yes it certainly was. But, I have been telling people about the changes of information to personal housing through forums and letters. Though there was the initial information which was indeed vague'

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Huh? I never remember hearing him say anything about housing after the initial 'it won't be connected to FC etc and that it would be about 850k." that he was saying was vague. Did I miss something, because if I did, a lot of other people did as well, because everyone seems confused/upset over this... even the JP players.

And how can it be a vague/mistranslated if they they are complaining about the same thing? If someone has a link, other than the pre-typed apology and patch notes that came out with 2.38, where he clarifies like he said he did, I would love to see it.

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

Me - 'I also looked forward to Personal Housing, but did not end up buying a house DUE TO IT BEING A LIL TO EXP' <-(I did slightly emphasize this, though in reality I do have enough).

'We have come to the decision which is 2.38 in housing, by thoroughly checking the market and gil retained by players. We know how much each player has. Though it is expensive, I think housing should be an achievement where players work hard to earn the gil, it should take some effort to buy a house. Players who laze around should make some effort to make gil.
If we make it anymore cheaper, it would cause problems to the game and market with RMT etc'

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First off I'm slightly offended by this. Is that honestly how he views some players in this game, as lazy people who do nothing? It's not necessarily that people are lazy, and he shouldn't have used that term to begin with. We based the gil that we saved and worked for OFF WHAT HE SAID WHICH I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING TO PROVE HE CLARIFIED THIS UNTIL THE PATCH!

This game is not our job, we don't do this for a living. We have family, and careers, school etc... and not everyone has time to sit around and just make gil. Granted I have enough to buy a small, but I don't know if I want one if it's this messy and unorganized.

Many have said, that I have talked too, that we already play a premium per month for this game. Why should housing cost anything? A lot of MMO's give you basic lodging for free with your character that you can modify and decorate. That small should cost nothing and that if you want to upgrade, get more land, a bigger house etc THAT should be the charge and gil sink.

NoT only to we buy the plot, we buy the license to BUILD the house and then have to spend gil to make or buy furnishings! Where are people being lazy?!

Lets also not forget the gil sink/time for all of the materia for the Novus, which SE made HARDER because they changed the way you spirit bond to make it more difficult, because people were making gil that way. Tell us not to be lazy players, but then you gimp every way we find to make gil and tell us to work harder?

The reason I don't agree with how this has been implemented is because:

• You will have single players fighting with FC's over plots which is unfair to both sides of the coin.
• You have people buying multi-properties and then selling them at 2-3 times the price to try and make a quick buck.
• And there were NOT enough plots for the demand that they should have known would be there right off the bat. People have had months to save up, they should have known better

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At the start it should have been 1 house per server, and they should have given people time to buy them and then added the idea to buy multi-plots at 2.4 when more zones/plots were added.

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

To be honest, I agree with him. Half the people I see complaining about housing request alternate gardening; to mass produce and sell onions for cheap gil I assume.

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With me it had nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that they say things, then change their minds or say it was a vague misinterpretation. Or promise things, and then give no time line or idea of when to expect them. Two things I was really looking forward to in this game, one: i have no idea when it's coming out and then other is a mess at the moment.

Also I don't garden really, I have people in my FC that are much more interested in it than me. My friend and I want to get married in the game (hope they don't mess that up too) and we just wanted a house that we could decorate together and use together. Now we are questioning if we even want to get involved with all this mess.

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

'We are working on a solution for that, but it is not as easy. So please bear with it for a little longer'

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Yeah, that's becoming a punch line for many people... "Yeah XYZ will come at come point, please look forward to it!"

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

snipped for space, but seriously go back and read this post.

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Thanks BreathlessTao for articulating the situation better than I ever could. I've been stating multiple times along with Fendred and a few others that they need multiple difficulties for end game content like coil to drop some of the hard restrictions on just seeing story content, as well as getting rewarded for some of the quests that clutter up the questing log. I can think of plenty of examples on how to fix the problems that are plaguing end game at the moment and I have a hard time believing their software developers haven't thought of these things, too.

1. Instead of nerfing end game dungeons each push, just upgrade the loot tables to the latest ones and have the older gear sold as vanity or eliminated, adding some sense of value to the older gear. Also scale the power of gear down for dungeons so that it fits the level of the dungeon. Right now AV is the only place that scales down, so the end game dungeons are actually easier than the last dungeon before HITTING end game dungeons.

2. Make two difficulties for 8 man dungeons like Binding Coil, so players can experience the story of these places without putting undue grind into it. That way people could do the light version for the story and then tackle the harder versions of each coil turn without worrying about a specific order. For that matter, remove lockouts for the harder version and just let people DF it like Ramuh back before 2.38.

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

Players who laze around should make some effort to make gil.

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I said to a friends months ago that FFXIV looked more and more like a work simulator: make something repetitive and boring to gain a currency...

I just realised... It's the first time the Work Simulator goal of this game is made "official"...

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

I said Live letters. not dev posts, blogs

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I never said dev posts or blogs either. the companies afformentioned do streams on twitch be it weekly or monthly in live letter format, in addition to dev posts and blogs on foums and the official sites.

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

Players who laze around should make some effort to make gil.

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Haha, and if the team in charge of housing did not laze around during the last six month trying to make everyone believe they were working on some unique personal housing and end up reusing an already existing feature at insane price because of servers capacity, players wouldn't complain to that extent.

I have the money to buy a S, but even if I could made it in time at the 2.4, I wouldn't bother to pay that much to have a tool shack barely larger than the FC room that cost only 300k.

They got lazy here, not the players. Housing should be a casual feature as it's mostly for fun. Not the most luxurious achievement of the game.

Shameless cover up, it's all I hear them saying here.

Precisely what is the difference between a "live letter" and a "dev blog"? Blizzard in particular communicates with their playerbase in a BIG way. They have test servers. They have well-planned betas. They have twitter accounts and they are always on their forums talking to their players. SE didn't invent "communication" - they are catching up after years of failing in XI at it. Yoshi started out strong, but he's missing key elements of what they players are saying.

If SE is so worried about RMT, why is there such an emphasis on gil for everything in this game?

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Originally Posted by Vaer

It's to preserve the value of the house/land. If individuals could buy for what currently is the exact same house minus personal chambers for cheaper than an FC, large FCs that worked for months to buy a medium or large would feel cheated.

They would have to offer something completely different for it to be cheaper and put them in new areas or instance them. Work they either don't want to do or don't have the resources to do, since they are working on an expansion in the background along with the patches.

I mean I guess they could offer the same house for cheaper to individuals but we'll just be back here reading complaints about how individuals get around the same quality house for cheaper than an FC.

I think the main thing to be worried about is that Yoshi's replies are basically "deal with it" and unconcerned.

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I see what you're saying, but I can't really agree with letting it go at that. The system itself is flawed, basically, and I'm aware there's no easy fix; however, in no circumstances should the gil an individual player needs to save for a house be equal to what an FC needs to save. There's something really wrong if that's a necessity, and I think it warrants further examination, or at the very least some kind of comment. Both sides are hurt by this, FCs and individuals both, unfortunately; FCs in having to save for months, in some cases, only to be bought out by individual players, and individuals for having to pay the same as a large group of players, and I'd like to see at least some steps taken toward mending the damage that's been done.

A couple other points unrelated to anything you've said, but to the thread and the issue as a whole:

-About lack of wards: yes, this is a SERIOUS issue, especially on legacy servers, but one that will hopefully even out with time. More and more wards will be added, so theoretically, everyone will be able to get a house sooner or later...though I personally believe that to make that sooner rather than later, the amount of wards added should be scaled by need, with less added on servers that already have free plots in existing wards, and more on servers that are perpetually full.

-To those who say housing is unimportant, shouldn't matter, or that it shouldn't get to anyone if they can't participate: I don't believe it's for one player to tell another what is valid to find enjoyment from in this game. For some people housing is a very big deal, evidenced by the sheer amount of people who have been waiting for it, and the amount of anger and frustration expressed in the wake of its implementation. Not everyone just wants a garden to make easy gil. Some people just want a place to call their own, and that is every bit as valid as anyone who would rather spend their time logging on for dailies or Coil runs. Other content cannot be expected to be looked at as a replacement for what someone really wants to do, just because it's there, and its existence does not invalidate any complaints or concerns about the unrelated things that someone takes a serious interest in.

Sometimes I login and I want to farm dungeons or coils. Others, I just want to laze around my FC house, or decorate a private room. Apples and oranges, and one does not replace the other.

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

You have to realize, a war against RMT cannot be won. They are like roaches, they always find ways to breach the wall.

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Several MMO companies including FTP ones would disagree with this. This here is the only one that seems to just invite them in.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Hilarious, as I'm perfectly happy to put work in when said work is more than just "grind gil". I have dumped an inordinate amount of time, gold, and effort in constructing homes in WildStar. I am not work-averse; I am inappropriate entry barrier-averse.

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Not sure why you're complaining then. If it's not a problem to you to make gil, then be patient on the team adding more plots and wards. It's that simple.

Yes they have a flawed system which should be instanced. Yes, they went about the housing situation the wrong way with their other available options. Lets move beyond that now.