New SB limitations - facts

What is the tldr version? What ilevel for which dungeon, what ilevel for what overworld range?

This is rather lame, they shouldn't have changed SB to the point where you have to analyze where and where it won't work.

The least they could of done was made a chart so players didn't blindly play through dungeons til they ran into the right setup.

Item level 90 gear still has a chance to give tier III materia

So in CM, using 48/49 binding items, overall ilvl 76.
Started at 32%
49% from Trash to the first boss room (+27)
75% to 2nd boss room (+26)
89% to 3rd boss room (+14)
100%+ to last boss room (+>11)

Got all grade 3's.

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Originally Posted by Airget

This is rather lame, they shouldn't have changed SB to the point where you have to analyze where and where it won't work.

The least they could of done was made a chart so players didn't blindly play through dungeons til they ran into the right setup.

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Not to be overtly mean, but do you play RPGs? the entire appeal for video games in general is to challenge the player. Part of that challenge is mucking around within the system to figure stuff out. Yes this is an inconvenience to re-learn the SB system, but thats part of playing.

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Originally Posted by kidvideo

What is the tldr version? What ilevel for which dungeon, what ilevel for what overworld range?

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Needs further testing, but likely:

• Overworld and sub 50 dungeons: Monster level = ilevel +1 to ilevel +10 (i.e. ilevel 27 equipment binds fastest to overworld monsters of level 28 to 37)
• CM/Preatorium: i40 to i49
• AK/WP: i45 to i54
• Copperbell HM/Haukke HM/Pharos: i50 to i59
• Brayflox HM/LCoA/Halatali HM: i60 to i69
• CT/Stone Vigil HM/Tamtara HM/Hullbreaker: i70 to i79
• BCoB: i80 to i89
• ST: i90 to i99
• SCoB: i100 to i109

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

So in CM, using 48/49 binding items, overall ilvl 76.
Started at 32%
49% from Trash to the first boss room (+27)
75% to 2nd boss room (+26)
89% to 3rd boss room (+14)
100%+ to last boss room (+>11)

Got all grade 3's.

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Did you start with NQ items or HQ items?

I'm seeing the price of T4s drop suddenly on my server so I think people are making a big stink about nothing.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Needs further testing, but likely:

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The Man. Thank you!

Alright I did some more tests to get a better idea of the diminishing returns system for low level gear. Using the same lvl37 mobs (9 total) the results I got were:

i10 Straw Hat ~ 1% (Wouldn't SB)
i21 Cotton Doublet Vest of Craft ~ 15%
i23 Velveteen Bandana ~ 21%
i25 Silver Magnifiers ~ 24%

So combining the information with my last post and filling in the blanks with the missing difference (listed as EST) you get something like this:
<i18 ~ 1%
i18 ~ 3%
i19 ~ 7 EST
i20 ~ 11 EST
i21 ~ 15%
i22 ~ 18 EST
i23 ~ 21%
i24 ~ 23 EST
i25 ~ 24%
i26 ~ 26%

From this I gather that every level below the lvl10 threshold of the mob starts out with a 1.5% SB loss that grows to about 2% all the way up to 4% a level until it stops spirit bonding completely at around 20 ilevels below the mobs level.

This thread...I'm speechless...

What appeared to start as a traditional General Discussion whinefest instead became a constructive discussion, where the community is pulling together to objectively discover what changed and what the changes mean rather than simply saying "WAH! It's different and I don't like different things!"

It's....it's beautiful... <3

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Originally Posted by Edeline

Did Wanderer's Palace with i49 accesory HQ and melded, 37% sb. I used to get 50~56% before nerf on other dungeons. Besides, myth from older dungeons is so low that there isn't an incentive to run the same dungeon 3 times just for 1 set of SB. Det IV materias are already 600~900k in my server :D

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

Went to Wanderer's Palace with ilvl47 weapon and ilvl52 body piece. Was able to spiritbond both, a lot faster than before.

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So, right side SBs slower than left side?

Did Wanderer's Palace with i49 accesory HQ and melded, 37% sb. I used to get 50~56% before nerf on other dungeons. Besides, myth from older dungeons is so low that there isn't an incentive to run the same dungeon 3 times just for 1 set of SB. Det IV materias are already 600~900k in my server :D

Went to Wanderer's Palace with ilvl47 weapon and ilvl52 body piece. Was able to spiritbond both, a lot faster than before.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

So, right side SBs slower than left side?

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There is definitely some variation in SB speed. When I last did SB in Urth's, the lowest % item was around 60% when the first one finished.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

Did Wanderer's Palace with i49 accesory HQ and melded, 37% sb. I used to get 50~56% before nerf on other dungeons. Besides, myth from older dungeons is so low that there isn't an incentive to run the same dungeon 3 times just for 1 set of SB. Det IV materias are already 600~900k in my server :D

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That's pretty cool, considering WP is a fast dungeon (imo).

Did a session in Eastern Thanalan against level 40 mobs using 30 - 38 iLVL pieces, it seems the rate is almost double what it used to be. I had an i49 choker on and it seemed to be the exact same speed as before, about 3% per pull. Haven't tried Urth's Gift yet but if this is any indication, open world SBing got buffed quite a bit if you have a good spot.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

Did Wanderer's Palace with i49 accesory HQ and melded, 37% sb. I used to get 50~56% before nerf on other dungeons. Besides, myth from older dungeons is so low that there isn't an incentive to run the same dungeon 3 times just for 1 set of SB. Det IV materias are already 600~900k in my server :D

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We should probably compile a list of average ilvls/mob ilvls. WP has an average of 50, but drops i60 gear, which as the post has shown indicates the mob level closer than the list. Hence, the slow nature of your Sb of i50 items.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

WP has an average of 50, but drops i60 gear

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WP drops i55 gear.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

Ah, Thanks! The point still stands. WP is best for i55 gear then and has diminishing returns for gear ilvl's around it.

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Yup yup. :3

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

WP drops i55 gear.

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Ah, Thanks! The point still stands. WP is best for i55 gear then and has diminishing returns for gear ilvl's around it.

Just tested an ilvl 90 HQ piece in ST and the outcome was a total of 16% spirit bond for the entire run; no pots/rings etc. were used to increase the bond process.

Additionally tested the same ilvl 90 HQ item (just for fun) against 5 lvl 49 mobs, and 2 lvl 50 mobs. This resulted in a 0% bond increase.

Update:

Just put on a full left side of HQ ilvl 49 gear, ran Castrum and ended with 71% spiritbond.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

Ah, Thanks! The point still stands. WP is best for i55 gear then and has diminishing returns for gear ilvl's around it.

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Not quite, from all that's been gathered so far SB peaks at 10 levels below the mobs level and diminishes from there going either direction. Going lower from the peak tends to have less SB loss per ilvl but eventually plummets the closer you reach 20 lvls below the monster. Going higher tends to have a greater loss to SB per level but eventually plateau's once you reach the mobs level and steadily lowers from then on out.

So if WP's mobs are considered lvl 55 the best ilevel range would probably be some where between 40-47. I hope to do some controlled tests later with crafting accessories cause so far my experience in Urth's Gift is that SB'in is faster (I finished a set in about 17 mins where usually it takes closer to 25mins). Also I noticed something odd, I had both an NQ electrum ring and an HQ SB'in and they both finished relatively at the same time. Maybe the NQ was SB'd a lot more than i thought or the old SB discrepancy for rings kicked in but they normally don't finish on the dot like that. Has anybody else noticed an increased rate of SB for NQ's?

Just ran Castrum in full left side and right side SB gear. The gear was i49 HQ gear. From start to finish I got 65% spirit bond. My friend ran in with NQ equips and reported over 50% SB. It seems like since you have to do 2 runs anyway to fully SB, you could go into Cas with NQ gears instead of HQ. It'll save you quite a bit of money.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

S
1) Do not allow gear changes inside an instance; really, this shouldn't be and probably wasn't commonly done to begin with EXCEPT to get past IL entry requirements, and I think this change alone would solve more problems than it would cause

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So an upgrade drops and you win it, but not allowed to equip it? No thanks.

Edit to add: what happens to the SB rate when it's synced down to below level 50?

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Originally Posted by Manuka

Following up on TravelerX1 I did some testing on 8 sheep and 1 ice sprite in Coerthas (lvl37) with varying levels of gear all NQ. The results of one pull were thus:

i18 Brass ring of Craft ~ 3%

i26 Velveteen Coatee of Craft ~ 26%

i27Velveteen Wedge Cap of Craft ~ 28%

i28 Velveteen Half Apron ~ 26%

i38 Linen Shortgloves ~8%

i46 Electrum Wrists of Craft ~ 4%

i47 Electrum Ring of Craft ~ 3%

i49 Electrum Choker ~ 3%

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Hi Manuka,

WOW. 26% Spiritbond Progress on *1* (ONE) Pull? :) Amazing!

This might not be so bad. Now we need to test Higher Level Gear.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Manuka,

WOW. 26% Spiritbond Progress on *1* (ONE) Pull? :) Amazing!

This might not be so bad. Now we need to test Higher Level Gear.

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Yeah I was surprised by it at first, like I usually use that spot to mass bind for materia II's on the left and materia I's on the right with vendor gear while farming fleece. Before the patch that pull would normally bring in about 11-17% across all the gear and now the rate they bond at is almost double (except for the cheap materia I gear). Honestly after considering it the changes aren't that bad as now it'll force people to farm mat mobs that tend to go ignored (like boar hide which sells double than most lvl50 mats on my surver) to get materia efficiently.

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

Just ran Castrum in full left side and right side SB gear. The gear was i49 HQ gear. From start to finish I got 65% spirit bond. My friend ran in with NQ equips and reported over 50% SB. It seems like since you have to do 2 runs anyway to fully SB, you could go into Cas with NQ gears instead of HQ. It'll save you quite a bit of money.

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Was this a "normal" Castrum run where you run past 80% of the trash? Wondering if a Castrum SB party (exit before final 5 bosses) would be effective for the 45-49 range.

This is what happens when people complain about others spiritbonding their lower level equipment in higher tier dungeons. This is why we can't have nice things. Let's just ignore the fact that half the time these people still do a fine job of tanking/DPSing/Healing, and focus on that one level 49 ring the tank was wearing the whole time.

This is perhaps one of the dumbest moves SE has made in a long time, and it'll only push materia prices up even further than they already are.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Was this a "normal" Castrum run where you run past 80% of the trash? Wondering if a Castrum SB party (exit before final 5 bosses) would be effective for the 45-49 range.

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I think you're thinking of Prae hahaha. But yea my run was in DF and I assume that if I had been in a full SB party where we pulled every single living thing I could've easily SBed my whole set in one run.

I think I just discovered something new. The increased rates that I listed earlier get reduced dramatically if you form a party :/ Just a minute ago I put on a bunch of gear to spirit bond for some II's and noticed a significant loss in SB across all gear (some as high as 10%) and was more inline with prepatch SB rate that I thought I hallucinated my previous numbers. At the time I was partied with a friend and remembered that the chocobo would reduce my SB by a tiny bit while out so I decided to disband and see what happened. Numbers went back up high again. So yeah apparently these increased rates only work great solo... I see Urth's becoming a battle royale if the loss is as pronounced with 40+ gear lol

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

Just ran Castrum in full left side and right side SB gear. The gear was i49 HQ gear. From start to finish I got 65% spirit bond. My friend ran in with NQ equips and reported over 50% SB. It seems like since you have to do 2 runs anyway to fully SB, you could go into Cas with NQ gears instead of HQ. It'll save you quite a bit of money.

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I just did Castrum with only the left side full HQ ilvl 49 and ended with a 71% bond. I wonder what the difference was between the runs to cause a 6% bond difference. Did you guys skip any mobs? Was your friend that said they had over 50% in the same run as you?

Either way you're right, it will take 2 runs to fully SB.

Seems you gotta imagine what ilv the dungeon drops then go there to use the appropriate ilv gear.

Yep same run as me. And I do believe we did skip some mobs here and there. JP runs tend to strive for efficiency which means killing the least mobs possible. So everyone tries as much as possible to avoid aggroing things they don't need to kill.

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Originally Posted by Manuka

I think I just discovered something new. The increased rates that I listed earlier get reduced dramatically if you form a party :/

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It may likely be that forming a party effectively increases your item's level or decreases the mob's level for the calculations, similarly to how forming a party causes more mobs to link in open world content. My guess is that the party is nudging you out of the sweet spot where you get tons of xp.

On a related note, with all this research going on about SB rates, has anyone found a concrete value for how much +spiritbind from potion and gear help?

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Don't know how you get that Brayiflox HM is an i70 dungeon. Look on the DF. The iLvl of the dungeon is 55. Syrcus is 70. The 3 new dungeons (Hulbreaker, TT HM, SV HM) are also 70.

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The ilv of the gear in chests. Common sense too.

I think with these new changes SE needs to start properly delineating dungeons by ilvl. It's actually kinda confusing to figure what dungeon is considered what ilvl range.

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But then you also screw people who forgot to change out of SB gear before hitting Commence. (Which is me, constantly, queueing for stuff while I'm killing my Animus book targets in SB gear.)

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That kind of thing should be addressed prior. To me it isn't any different from having to remember to keep your unfinished relic on before entering the Hydra fight (which does not allow you change your weapons at all once inside), just on a wider scale.

Most of the time I am waiting on a DF queue, I am doing stuff on another job, forcing me to change back before hitting commence. Doing this automatically puts me in the gear I should be using. You should get in the habit of doing this, even if you already happen to be on the appropriate job.

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So an upgrade drops and you win it, but not allowed to equip it? No thanks.

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You seriously can't wait until the instance ends? Come on.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

This is perhaps one of the dumbest moves SE has made in a long time, and it'll only push materia prices up even further than they already are.

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I think this is the best SE could have done to solve the problem with undergeared people causing drama in Syrcus Tower and other places because they want to SB.

With the increase in SB rate, we'll get more I, II and III materia overall and the included increase of IV from i44-i55 gear got balanced out by the change to i70+ gear conversion. Net effect: more I-III materia, same amount or more of IV materia in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

This is what happens when people complain about others spiritbonding their lower level equipment in higher tier dungeons. This is why we can't have nice things. Let's just ignore the fact that half the time these people still do a fine job of tanking/DPSing/Healing, and focus on that one level 49 ring the tank was wearing the whole time.

This is perhaps one of the dumbest moves SE has made in a long time, and it'll only push materia prices up even further than they already are.

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I checked my servers MB and for the most part all T4 materia prices are the same with maybe a 10-20k increase.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

It may likely be that forming a party effectively increases your item's level or decreases the mob's level for the calculations, similarly to how forming a party causes more mobs to link in open world content. My guess is that the party is nudging you out of the sweet spot where you get tons of xp.

On a related note, with all this research going on about SB rates, has anyone found a concrete value for how much +spiritbind from potion and gear help?

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0.3% increase per "Spiritbond Gain +1"

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

I think this is the best SE could have done to solve the problem with undergeared people causing drama in Syrcus Tower and other places because they want to SB.

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It was never widespread enough to be even considered an issue. The only reason it was brought to light is because the few people it did affect are exceptionally vocal about it.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

With the increase in SB rate, we'll get more I, II and III materia overall and the included increase of IV from i44-i55 gear got balanced out by the change to i70+ gear conversion. Net effect: more I-III materia, same amount or more of IV materia in the long run.

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Except, now you'll need to sport a full set of the same ilvl as the dungeon. It's now worthless to try and do anything less than the top-tier, so there will be fewer of the lower grades. The higher grade materia also requires more expensive crafts to SB, which will mean materials are being bought up a lot more, pushing demand up and thus also increasing the prices for crafters and materia buyers alike.

Can no one else really see the long-term effects of nuking SB on half the dungeons? They might have adjusted SB rates for same-gear, but by disallowing us to SB on other dungeons, it's going to kill off a vital chunk of the market.

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

I checked my servers MB and for the most part all T4 materia prices are the same with maybe a 10-20k increase.

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Savage might 4 rose 200k (500k to 700k) here in famfrit