So hows that mac port going?

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08-08-2014, 06:56 PM
Gramul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangela

Why should the developers have to waste their time just for some people to be able to play the game on MAC while those players can just install Windows on the same machine.

So they don't have to.
08-08-2014, 09:51 PM
Brianmj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramul

So they don't have to.

Exactly. Not everyone is interested in buying a Windows license just to play a single game. If Square advertises their port pretty well they can capture a significant portion of the market since there are so few MMORPG options for mac users. A Steam linux version would be pretty sweet. The more the better I say, and it would be a statement in it of itself - Square taking a chance on Linux users where most others wouldn't. But some will rage at a Linux port...

Quote:

... Then there is funding, I don't really want my subscription fee to be used to develop the client for a niche system which less than 10% of the users actually own when that 10% can already run the game if they install Windows...

Seriously, really? The inflated sense of power some people on this board feel they have is ridiculous. At the mac launch, to spite some users, I hope Yoshida release a mount that is an exact replica of the finder dock icon.
08-08-2014, 10:44 PM
Appleh4x

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaft

While I would much rather play XIV on my Mac...I don't see it happening any time soon. Japan simply hasn't adopted Mac as much as America has yet.

Trust me when I say I wouldn't have a PC at this point if it wasn't for XIV. I can do everything else I need better on a Mac or Linux computer.

Trust you? Saying this just proves how little you know about how computers work. Mac is worse for literally everything
08-08-2014, 11:32 PM
Tsuwu

I feel like there's so much hate over operating systems it's hilarious.

Like watching two tribes of mouth breathers fight for the sake of fighting, and occasionally someone from the -nix camp throws a rock because, you know, -nix is the hip underdog and wants to be part of the action too.

I'm going to just go ahead and make the demand for a Chrome OS client.
No, wait.

Sailfish OS.

Or even better.

OS/2 Warp port.
Please look forward to it.
08-09-2014, 12:11 AM
BloodPact

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangela

so you want the devs to spend their valuable time to make a MAC version (and have to keep updating it) just because you hate Windows? instead of letting them spend their time to update the game for everyone?

Actually, making a Macintosh port would probably be more "valuable" in terms of revenue than say, DirectX11 support or time spent in continued development of side quests like Hildebrand's. Furthermore, such an evaluation is completely subjective and I'm pretty sure you have no idea what's being discussed, at which level of importance, in Square Enix's conference rooms.
08-09-2014, 01:36 AM
Elven

If I know anything about business it's all about the Benjamin's
08-09-2014, 01:40 AM
kidvideo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsuwu

So much rage towards a tool and the people who prefer/use it.

Don't get me started on the screwdriver... wft phillips!
08-09-2014, 01:48 AM
Sakasa

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodPact

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what's being discussed, at which level of importance, in Square Enix's conference rooms.

But that can be said the same about you and your view on time spent because unlike MacOS port the development team already has a vested interest in DirectX11 and the working know how of improvements and changes that would improve the system for both sides of the spectrum of players in the game because DirectX is just an API that is backwards compatiable with older versions. And hildebrand is not new software implementation it is just like adding anything else in the game the system exists to add it in, it is not built from scratch animation by animation or overall new tools and design mechanics as it is added in the same way they add anything into the game so on both accounts they are not the same.

Also you have the whole fact that Direct X is windows proprietary which means the game will have to be adjusted to OpenGL which requires them to make a bind to a language and then adapt each and every call to direct x to OpenGL. Now its been awhile so more projects that will translate Direct X to OpenGL as earlier people only were working on OpenGL to DirectX.
08-26-2014, 09:21 AM
Grekumah

If you didn't catch the latest Letter from the Producer LIVE, there was a brief mention of a possible version for Mac.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayohne

Q45: Kasuga, I mainly play on a Mac. Do you have any plans on introducing a Mac version?

A45: There are still some minor bugs, but we did get the game to run on Mac. We are at the point where we are deciding if it will actually be a wise business move or not.

We’ll let you know should we receive additional information.
08-26-2014, 09:37 AM
Brianmj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grekumah

If you didn't catch the latest Letter from the Producer LIVE, there was a brief mention of a possible version for Mac.

We’ll let you know should we receive additional information.

Thank you so much for the response. Previous mentions about a mac port have been a little ambiguous. It's a little disheartening to hear that a developmental decision and a business decision are separate (always thought they were one and the same). But a mac port confirmed to be up and running is sweet news to hear, nonetheless. If released, this will be Square's first mac game, no?
08-26-2014, 09:45 AM
raelgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianmj

Thank you so much for the response. Previous mentions about a mac port have been a little ambiguous. It's a little disheartening to hear that a developmental decision and a business decision are separate (always thought they were one and the same). But a mac port confirmed to be up and running is sweet news to hear, nonetheless. If released, this will be Square's first mac game, no?

business move in terms of support, remember, SE gotta support development on a continuing cycle for a platform that not even apple will support SE on, which is harder on them. Either way, this development I hope will open up personal computers awareness more in japan, as it bodes well for more games to be released on PC/mac.
08-26-2014, 10:24 AM
FaizeD

Did I read in this thread that a Mac is a status symbol? For whom?!

On topic though, the whole "wise business" decision will have very little to do with satisfying the personal whims of current players and more to do with how many new subscribers$$$ a mac version will bring in. At the risk of sounding pessimistic, I predict: not enough.
08-26-2014, 11:03 AM
Brianmj

Quote:

Originally Posted by raelgun

business move in terms of support, remember, SE gotta support development on a continuing cycle for a platform that not even apple will support SE on, which is harder on them. Either way, this development I hope will open up personal computers awareness more in japan, as it bodes well for more games to be released on PC/mac.

What do you mean Apple won't support Square "on a continuing cycle"? Apple probably provides the same support that Microsoft does. They have to keep developers investing in their platform somehow.
08-26-2014, 11:34 AM
LilRedAlchemist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grekumah

If you didn't catch the latest Letter from the Producer LIVE, there was a brief mention of a possible version for Mac.

We’ll let you know should we receive additional information.

Oh happy day! I just bought a MBP last week and one of the hardest parts was reconciling the fact I cant play FF on it.
08-26-2014, 11:45 AM
raelgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianmj

What do you mean Apple won't support Square "on a continuing cycle"? Apple probably provides the same support that Microsoft does. They have to keep developers investing in their platform somehow.

Microsoft would help in terms of say direct X support etc.. apple OS most likely will use open GL which has no input from apple, the apis needed to operate with, apple dont bother, microsoft has control over direct x so its part of their job in that sense. SE are the ones that have to figure out and continue to figure out in each patch cycle apple go through, as you own a apple product, apple dont see their platform as a gaming system to begin with, you can tell where they put their money in it.
08-26-2014, 12:13 PM
Brianmj

Quote:

Originally Posted by raelgun

Microsoft would help in terms of say direct X support etc.. apple OS most likely will use open GL which has no input from apple, the apis needed to operate with, apple dont bother, microsoft has control over direct x so its part of their job in that sense. SE are the ones that have to figure out and continue to figure out in each patch cycle apple go through, as you own a apple product, apple dont see their platform as a gaming system to begin with, you can tell where they put their money in it.

Apple is part of the Khronos group, the governing body that decides the direction of OpenGL https://www.khronos.org/members/promoters. Apple does use OpenGL to draw the OS x desktop - if you're working on anything 3d, you have to use OpenGL on mac os https://developer.apple.com/opengl/. Apple's lackluster support comes from not supporting the latest version of OpenGL. Just 2 weeks ago, OpenGL 4.5 was released http://www.slideshare.net/Mark_Kilga...or-nvidia-gpus while with Mac OS X Yosemite, Apple is still using version 4.1 http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/commen...ing_opengl_41/. Mac OS is 4 versions behind in its OpenGL implementation. But OpenGL 4.1 is equivalent to Direct3D 11.1, so its not that bad. 4.1 just doesn't have compute shaders, which I love to try out on OSX.
08-26-2014, 12:29 PM
JadeWhitethorn

If you can spend $1600 on a laptop to browse Facebook, you can buy a killer gaming desktop or laptop for the same price.
08-26-2014, 12:35 PM
Mijin

People play commercial games on mac computers? I thought mac computers were for browsing facebook and playing candycrush.
08-26-2014, 12:56 PM
Brianmj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mijin

People play commercial games on mac computers? I thought mac computers were for browsing facebook and playing candycrush.

No! The whole lot of you are operating on misconceptions about Macs and OSX. OSX is a platform, a tool, just like Windows. Whatever you can do in Windows, you can do in OSX.
08-26-2014, 12:59 PM
Tsuwu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianmj

No! The whole lot of you are operating on misconceptions about Macs and OSX. OSX is a platform, a tool, just like Windows. Whatever you can do in Windows, you can do in OSX.

This.
A million times this.

So much. This.
08-26-2014, 01:11 PM
JadeWhitethorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsuwu

This.
A million times this.

So much. This.

Really? How goes all that gaming? Oh wait... you have to install Windows to do that on your Mac. Or just deal with slim pickings.
08-26-2014, 01:12 PM
Baneus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianmj

No! The whole lot of you are operating on misconceptions about Macs and OSX. OSX is a platform, a tool, just like Windows. Whatever you can do in Windows, you can do in OSX.

Yes and no. You can get the Mac OS to do anything a Windows OS can. Whether or not it's just as easy is another thing altogether. Though Apple made things a lot easier when they ditched the PPC architecture.
08-26-2014, 01:21 PM
LeonBlade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't get it. why the developers have to waste their time just for some people to be able to play the game on MAC while those players can just install Windows on the same machine. It's even dumber than making PS3 version.

It's Mac not MAC, it's a shortened form of "Macintosh"... you know... the apple. MAC is a cosmetics line.
http://www.cannes-i-get.com/image/get/resize/3/id/3094
08-26-2014, 01:26 PM
LeonBlade

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeWhitethorn

Really? How goes all that gaming? Oh wait... you have to install Windows to do that on your Mac. Or just deal with slim pickings.

Try to act mature on the forums please. OS X is just an operating system, take a look at the business world, a lot of companies use Apple computers.
08-26-2014, 01:28 PM
Mijin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianmj

No! The whole lot of you are operating on misconceptions about Macs and OSX. OSX is a platform, a tool, just like Windows. Whatever you can do in Windows, you can do in OSX.

Except for all that stuff that only runs on windows right? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonBlade

It's Mac not MAC, it's a shortened form of "Macintosh"... you know... the apple. MAC is a cosmetics line.

IT'S A TRICK! THEY ARE BOTH COSMETICS LINES.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonBlade

Try to act mature on the forums please. OS X is just an operating system, take a look at the business world, a lot of companies use Apple computers.

You don't play a lot of computer games at work, or do anything else outside of work for that matter, well, you're not supposed to anyway. XD actually I think saying "alot" is going a bit too far, considering 99.9% use windows, unless you have a time machine and this is 1985.
08-26-2014, 01:35 PM
Tsuwu

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeWhitethorn

Really? How goes all that gaming? Oh wait... you have to install Windows to do that on your Mac. Or just deal with slim pickings.

Exactly, dear.
I had to blow 150$ on an extra license for Windows just to play FFXIV on my primary laptop. Before you tear into it because "Maclol", bear in mind I use it for Aperture, Logic/ProTools, Resolve, and FCPX. Windows doesn't do all that. Hence the need foe dual boot.
That's a barrier.
The less of those, the more people play.
You're a smart person. You know the more people playing XIV, the better it does.
Especially if they're already this close, seems a short leap to make it a reality.
08-26-2014, 01:38 PM
Baneus

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonBlade

Try to act mature on the forums please. OS X is just an operating system, take a look at the business world, a lot of companies use Apple computers.

A lot of big companies use Apple products yes. However, outside of a few places with software specifically written for an Apples desktop OS, there aren't a huge number of actual Apple desktop computers out there. The people that do use them are often connected with other companies that also use them, so it seems that more are out there than there actually are. It's like when you buy a brand new car and you suddenly notice a lot of the same car when out driving. Nothing has changed, you're simply focusing on them more :)

You'll note I'm not saying that Apple doesn't have a large share of the business market, it's just not in desktops.
08-26-2014, 01:43 PM
Tsuwu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baneus

...note I'm not saying that Apple doesn't have a large share of the business market, it's just not in desktops.

Our studio uses Mac's desktops.
However, they're niche, and nobody can deny that.
But they're pretty, reliable, and functional.
Gotta love that little workhorse cylinder under the converters.
Runs 24/7 and gobbles up absolutely everything.

I'd never game on FirePros, but I'm not asking for my Mac Pro.
I'm asking for my MacBook Pro Retina. Wanna see this run natively at that gorgeous resolution.
08-26-2014, 01:45 PM
LeonBlade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baneus

A lot of big companies use Apple products yes. However, outside of a few places with software specifically written for an Apples desktop OS, there aren't a huge number of actual Apple desktop computers out there. The people that do use them are often connected with other companies that also use them, so it seems that more are out there than there actually are. It's like when you buy a brand new car and you suddenly notice a lot of the same car when out driving. Nothing has changed, you're simply focusing on them more :)

You'll note I'm not saying that Apple doesn't have a large share of the business market, it's just not in desktops.

I know what you mean, I just don't like that people are having childish platform wars on the forums because people want a port.
08-26-2014, 01:46 PM
Exstal

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonBlade

Try to act mature on the forums please. OS X is just an operating system, take a look at the business world, a lot of companies use Apple computers.

Do they use OSX for gaming though? I think that's the point that was being illustrated.
08-26-2014, 01:56 PM
LeonBlade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exstal

Do they use OSX for gaming though? I think that's the point that was being illustrated.

No, but OS X can game just fine. I could run this game on my MBP with High settings just fine. That doesn't mean that an OS X build is appropriate for market, but my point is that there's no need for belittle OS X users on the forums.
08-26-2014, 01:58 PM
Tsuwu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exstal

Do they use OSX for gaming though? I think that's the point that was being illustrated.

In cases where Mac ports are available, I can't see that being detrimental to any title.
Games that are fully cross platform on Steam have that much more potential to do better in terms of machines the software is installed on.
The distribution channel could even be exclusively through steam if people are highly concerned with Apple having it on the App Store.

I just don't get the unproductive platform flaming and fighting against something that would so obviously benefit the game.
08-26-2014, 01:59 PM
Waffles

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonBlade

No, but OS X can game just fine. I could run this game on my MBP with High settings just fine. That doesn't mean that an OS X build is appropriate for market, but my point is that there's no need for belittle OS X users on the forums.

What model MBP do you use?
08-26-2014, 02:26 PM
Brianmj

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonBlade

No, but OS X can game just fine. I could run this game on my MBP with High settings just fine. That doesn't mean that an OS X build is appropriate for market, but my point is that there's no need for belittle OS X users on the forums.

Just wondering what do you mean by "fine"? I have to use standard settings to get 50-60 fps. If I go with high settings my fps drops down to mid 20s. I have a early 2013 MBP 2.4 GHz with nVidia 650 gtm and 8GB of ram. What are your specs?
08-26-2014, 02:47 PM
LeonBlade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waffles

What model MBP do you use?

The 2012 MacBook Pro Retina.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianmj

Just wondering what do you mean by "fine"? I have to use standard settings to get 50-60 fps. If I go with high settings my fps drops down to mid 20s. I have a early 2013 MBP 2.4 GHz with nVidia 650 gtm and 8GB of ram. What are your specs?

The 2.6 GHz model with 16 GB of RAM.
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP653?viewlocale=en_US

My bootcamp had driver issues so I would always get problems with the framerate tanking after being a stable (capped) 30 FPS and uncapped 50-60 like you, so I gave up trying to run it on my machine. A native build would fix these problems, so it's something that I'm looking forward to, but nothing I'm expecting of course.
08-26-2014, 03:02 PM
Zaft

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianmj

Just wondering what do you mean by "fine"? I have to use standard settings to get 50-60 fps. If I go with high settings my fps drops down to mid 20s. I have a early 2013 MBP 2.4 GHz with nVidia 650 gtm and 8GB of ram. What are your specs?

One of the reasons for this is that the game is not optimized to work with the Mac OS X. Bad optimization, or no optimization at all, can turn any game into a nightmare to run, no matter what your machine (HI GUILD WARS 2!!!). You should see significant gains when an actual OS X version is released and properly optimized.
08-26-2014, 03:14 PM
TheRogueX

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonBlade

It's Mac not MAC, it's a shortened form of "Macintosh"... you know... the apple. MAC is a cosmetics line.

Nono, MAC is the physical address assigned to your network card!
08-26-2014, 03:24 PM
LeonBlade

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Nono, MAC is the physical address assigned to your network card!

LOL! That too! Thank you for reminding me.
08-26-2014, 07:27 PM
LalaRu

Quite sad see a thread relevant to Mac users being trolled by people who does not even have or care a Mac. If you hate Apple and all its products, that is not reason to put your trash posts on anything that talks of it. I welcome a Mac version, if that comes out.
08-26-2014, 09:06 PM
Iriadysa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianmj

Apple is part of the Khronos group, the governing body that decides the direction of OpenGL https://www.khronos.org/members/promoters. Apple does use OpenGL to draw the OS x desktop - if you're working on anything 3d, you have to use OpenGL on mac os https://developer.apple.com/opengl/. Apple's lackluster support comes from not supporting the latest version of OpenGL. Just 2 weeks ago, OpenGL 4.5 was released http://www.slideshare.net/Mark_Kilga...or-nvidia-gpus while with Mac OS X Yosemite, Apple is still using version 4.1 http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/commen...ing_opengl_41/. Mac OS is 4 versions behind in its OpenGL implementation. But OpenGL 4.1 is equivalent to Direct3D 11.1, so its not that bad. 4.1 just doesn't have compute shaders, which I love to try out on OSX.

On the topic of GL in Mac OSX:

Compute shaders are core in 4.3 although, as with anything OpenGL, it could be implemented as a stand alone extension and work on 4.1. The beauty of GL. Not like apple will anyways. Intel drivers for Windows are stuck at GL4.0, but they implement several of the more interesting extensions of 4.3, so it's not that horrible to develop for Intel GPUs today; however, compute shaders are not in there either.

The main problem with Apple and OSX is Apple's driver architecture choice. Long story short, it's apple themselves who partially implement the driver for the OS (in a similar fashion to how DX versioning works with Microsoft), which limits the fast cycles of constant improvement GPU manufacturers can provide with their drivers. The state of GL on windows is, basically, that manufactures do everything. This lead to poor support from some of them (notoriously Intel) but recent explosion on GL usage (most likely due to the efforts of the Khronos group to modernize the API and Valve's Steam backing it up) has lead to bleeding edge support from both leading GPU manufacturers on those platforms that are not locked up.

Mac OSX is locked up. Ahh, Apple.

It was not until recently that Apple simply didn't want to update their GL implementation beyond 3.2, which exposes about the equivalent of something between DX9 and DX10. In fact, while the current release of the OS supports 4.1, it still limits the implementation to part of the complete GL4.1 spec (it's fully GL4.1 complaint, but doesn't implement an alternative called "compatibility profile". It's a long story).

So you guys understand what this all means, we've had DX11-class hardware running inside Macintosh PCs for their whole effective life without ever being able to access the DX11-class features, because the OS did not bother to support it. It's no wonder gaming support on OSX was almost non existent.

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