In regard to the Scholars

Nerf "Aura Blast" Lmao, bish please; best increase the time casted on that damn "Fluid Aura."

First they strip us of our only viable (class oriented cc "Disease/Heavy")
2.3 you give WHM our Focalization & they also have Sacred Prism which is more effective that a Sacred Soil which ponders the question why SCH aren't bestowed with equivalent sanctions.
We have a aldoqium which is pretty amazing, yet Blizzard II (Cross-Class) not even a Arcanist move. While the dirty regening WHM has Fluid Aura (30 sec CD mind you) into a bind, 15 sec Sleep, Stone "Heavy" & they also receive Blizzard II.

I've grown accustomed to getting sh*t on by SE, but if they wish to nerf Aura Blast CD, YOU BETTER NERF THAT FUQN FLUID AURA!

Best Regards,
Enraged Subscriber :)

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Originally Posted by Gor

Pfft

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Definitely love this guy; bads will be bads 1% is becoming the .08%. Damn shame

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Originally Posted by Vittorino

First they strip us of our only viable (class oriented cc "Disease/Heavy")
2.3 you give WHM our Focalization & they also have Sacred Prism which is more effective that a Sacred Soil which ponders the question why SCH aren't bestowed with equivalent sanctions.
We have a aldoqium which is pretty amazing, yet Blizzard II (Cross-Class) not even a Arcanist move. While the dirty regening WHM has Fluid Aura (30 sec CD mind you) into a bind, 15 sec Sleep, Stone "Heavy" & they also receive Blizzard II.

I've grown accustomed to getting sh*t on by SE, but if they wish to nerf Aura Blast CD, YOU BETTER NERF THAT FUQN FLUID AURA!

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agreed, it does disappoint me that compared to WHM, SCHs literally have no defense other than trying to keep Galvanized up but then again most of the time what i hear from other tanks is SCHs are harder to kill so i guess it is a trade off. we are essentially designed to be as someone said earlier ... a piñata.

They better not touch SMN again unless it's to give us back full use of our abilities(SCH too, since we share our defensless class lol). I'll settle for the return of the weight effect on Miasma though lol. I understand removing it from Miasma II but a lot of jobs have the ability to weigh their enemy so I never quite understood why you removed it from Miasma.

Also, how about mages spell interruption is a % based chance rather than 100% if you get hit by a BRD. Not counting their "penalty", they have nothing stopping them from doing continuous damage. Both mages and melee are hindered by this. The only reason us mages appear so strong is cuz nobody ever attacks us, so we're left alone to deal tons of damage. If you plop a melee on us, it'll shut us down. At least temporarily.

I'd like to add the simple fact that the vast majority doing PvP has no clue how to PvP. Most of them aren't even aware they can equip PvP skills.

Unfortunately this leads to critique SE or PvP and whatnot rather than to acknowledge their shortcomings.

By the way, isn't PvP all about adapting to the situation and come up with a strategy on the spot when the basic strategy (if they even have one) does not work?

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Originally Posted by Gor

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gave this a like cause you used the word "merk"

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

By the way, isn't PvP all about adapting to the situation and come up with a strategy on the spot when the basic strategy (if they even have one) does not work?

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It is true that a lot of players are showing lack of kownledge at their own job when it comes to PvP. It is also true that PvP is about how to anticipate opponent's strategy. However, it is also the fact there will always be a major adjustment to balance after a PvP is installed because no developer in this world can forseeing everything when they design the game.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

... Unfortunately this leads to critique SE or PvP and whatnot rather than to acknowledge their shortcomings.

By the way, isn't PvP all about adapting to the situation and come up with a strategy on the spot ...

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Yep! Spot on.

Lots of fallacies are being thrown around in this thread:
1. Assumption that PvP was a core part of FFXIV design.
2. Assumption that PvP was designed around 1v1 combat/capabilities.
3. Assumption that SCH is anything other than a support class or should be played just like PvE.
4. Comparing FFXIV PvP with other games with different design.
5. Mistaking one's own position on the matter with the position of the entire community (grand hyperbole about the death of SCH or FFXIV PvP).

If a SCH could "handle" another DPS, why would anyone play anything other than SCH ? SCH should be with their party and nowhere else.

I doubt they'll touch Aura blast. Its one of the few skills that can break a healer turtle on a flag.

2.35 in two weeks, we will find out YoshiP's balance concept soon!

Healers are good at healing and preventing deaths and it is a big problem.

Waaw you guys need to relax lmfao.

You know and I know that SCH in PvP is insane! They have the survivability of a tank and the damage of a DPS, you can't have the best of both worlds and say "WOW SQUEENIX MESSIN UP MUH CLASS". I occasionally do SCH in frontlines because it's easy as sht to run around, keeping myself and everyone around me alive while throwing out DoTs and hitting bane. It's literally amazing how easily a SCH can kite five people around and still remain at 80%-100% HP. Anyway if your class gets nerfed than oh well! Find a new strat and make that work!

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Originally Posted by Impure

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Byooki you're my homie and everything but I disagree. Healers can survive in Frontlines in general not because we are an "insane" class, but because scrub noob tanks and melee don't know how to play pvp. I've been able to kite 5 or more people not because of anything special i am doing, i'm just casting Adloquium every few steps, but because noob players overwrite each others stuns, Full Swings, silences, and every other CC under the sun, thus diminishing returning all their cc's out (with the exception of heavy which stays up seemingly infinitely). i can count the times i've had two tanks on me, and both of them put their full swings on me at the same time, and i just purify it off and keep it moving like they aren't even there. then Super Goon comes flying through the air like a speeding bullet to stun me not once, but twice, thus also nullifying stuns. and other times i just juke them to use whatever cc's they may have just so i can get my Equanimity off. there is nothing op about SCH healing, we don't even heal for that much, nor does Eos. so to say that its 100% the class is the reason why we have high survivibility is giving SCHs too much credit. as someone said earlier, it gives the "illusion" that SCHs are indestructible when in reality there are other factors going into it, that nay-sayers are neglecting to recognize, that has nothing to do with what the SCH is doing, and everything to do with fail enemy players just raking their faces across the keyboard, hitting random buttons and expecting something good to happen.

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Originally Posted by Gor

snap

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I totally get what you're saying, SCH antics aren't as strong as what is being seen, but the thing is to the new (PvP) player it's one of those walls that they cannot climb over. I've been doing pvp since the SCH/SMN nerfs (which were totally justified IMO) I know how to deal with SCHs/WHMs as a melee, newer players, however, don't have a clue what to do against SCHs/WHMs which make teams stacking healers just even more stronger than intended. One SCH with six lustrates was enough but four-five of them? It makes it nearly impossible to make a dent into someone. I feel that solo SCH/WHM isn't a big deal but there has to be something done about stacking healers.

I don't know if anything can be done about it really. its not like SE can put up a barrier that says "you have reached your healer limit for this flag, please go away" and turns away any other healers that are approaching the base. I play battlegrounds in WoW and it's the same thing with flags stacked with 4+ healers deep with shamans, priests, paladins, monks and druids healing everywhere and nothing brings them down because all their heals complement each other. monk heals are so powerful in that game that i've seen a single monk heal keep up an entire team at one flag and no one could kill neither his team or the monk. the only thing that eventually takes them down is just bringing a death squad of all the team's dps and focusing them down one at a time or players just ignore the base and go take something else. and for a long time in WoW there was no diminishing returns in PvP although I don't believe that is the case anymore.

so just based on that i know people are frustrated but stacked healers really isn't a problem. its just that teams do it wrong by constantly smashing their faces into the same wall of 4+ healers the entire game just because their team is assigned to it, thus wasting time and before they know it the game is nearly over and they STILL haven't taken that base. i mean just because an alliance is in group A, doesn't mean players should just keep running back to Manor feeding kills but I see players doing it when they can go take enemy Outposts or Markets. players just need to not be so programmed in doing the same tactics over and over again and get used to going to another base if there are too many at one, because if there are 4+ healers at that base, then they have other bases that is short 4 healers. i tell my team if we can't take it the first attempt, don't run back and just go take something else and come back to it later. those same healers won't be there forever.

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Originally Posted by Impure

Waaw you guys need to relax lmfao.

You know and I know that SCH in PvP is insane! They have the survivability of a tank and the damage of a DPS, you can't have the best of both worlds and say "WOW SQUEENIX MESSIN UP MUH CLASS". It's literally amazing how easily a SCH can kite five people around and still remain at 80%-100% HP.

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I never have a problem killing SCH's. I jump for joy whenever I see that the healer is a SCH vs a WHM all the time.

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Originally Posted by Gor

Generally speaking, changes to PVP cannot go without also affecting PVE

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If I remember correctly all the abilities in the game are either PvP or PvE only, or they have 2 separate damage calculations to prevent one affecting the other.

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Originally Posted by Maxwell

If a SCH could "handle" another DPS, why would anyone play anything other than SCH ? SCH should be with their party and nowhere else.

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Exactly my thoughts, and why I find posts like

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Originally Posted by Gor

A healer that can't Sprint to get away and a healer that can't DPS to defend himself is a dead healer. I've played WoW long enough to know how miserable it is to be a healer and have no Sprint to get away and no DPS to defend myself. But if SE does do that then by logic they must increase the absorption of Galvanized to make up for the increase damage we will be taking.

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utterly laughable. Guess who's supposed to defend you? YOUR TEAM. You are not meant to be self-sufficient, and you are most definitely not meant to be a one-man island. It's a team game, and the game has to be balanced for team encounters and all possible group compositions.

A jack-of-all-trades that does everything well is by definition an anomaly that needs to be crushed. It cannot exist in a balanced PvP design, period. Healers should be dependent on their team members to keep them alive and deal damage, just in the same way the DPS is dependent on the healers to keep them up for longer than a few seconds of focused fire and to remove DoTs and debuffs. This interdependency is at the core of the game's design, and the idea that there should exist classes that exist entirely independently of other classes is hilariously short-sighted.

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Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

A jack-of-all-trades that does everything well is by definition an anomaly that needs to be crushed. It cannot exist in a balanced PvP design, period. Healers should be dependent on their team members to keep them alive and deal damage, just in the same way the DPS is dependent on the healers to keep them up for longer than a few seconds of focused fire and to remove DoTs and debuffs. This interdependency is at the core of the game's design, and the idea that there should exist classes that exist entirely independently of other classes is hilariously short-sighted.

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only SCHs arent a jack of all trades. if there is pressure on them, guess what, they can't dps. they have to heal. and if there is no pressure on them, then you should be allowed to attack. its not like we are doing the dps of a blm or smn. healers dependent on the team? doubt it. i don't know what games you've been playing, but even the top mmo's pvp environment aren't designed that way. in WoW, prior to them giving healers more damage to their damage abilities, healers couldn't kill anybody, but were immortal. but now yea go ahead and try to 1v1 a Disc priest in PvP, not only is it still immortal but you will also die trying to take it out. so that just goes to show that your interdependency is not the core of a game's design and WoW is one of the if not the top mmo in the world.

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Originally Posted by Gor

only SCHs arent a jack of all trades.

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http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...77fd59206a.jpg
Please stop. Just... just stop. You can't deny reality any more than you can change the direction the Earth spins around the sun.

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Originally Posted by Gor

only SCHs arent a jack of all trades.

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Support a party? Check. Need to DPS cause party is fine? Check. Need to tank cause a bunch of people are on you? Check. And perform each role quite well at that (if not arguably better than other jobs whose only allocation is one of those roles).

I'm not even saying I'm for or against a SCH nerf, but seriously, if that's not jack of all trades, what exactly is?

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Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...77fd59206a.jpg
Please stop. Just... just stop. You can't deny reality any more than you can change the direction the Earth spins around the sun.

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so? he did no healing, 33k is crap which means he was rolling in Cleric the whole time and just rolling dots on everything, furthermore that ain't even the norm. if there is nothing for the SCH to do, they can dps and vice versa. in addition, u dont know if the person swapped specs mid-match because it only shows your current spec at the end of the match. show me a chart where they can pull 130k damage AND 150k+ heals then that's another story. otherwise, feel free to keep hating.

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Originally Posted by Gor

so? he did no healing, 33k is crap which means he was rolling in Cleric the whole time and just rolling dots on everything, furthermore that ain't even the norm. if there is nothing for the SCH to do, they can dps and vice versa. in addition, u dont know if the person swapped specs mid-match because it only shows your current spec at the end of the match. show me a chart where they can pull 130k damage AND 150k+ heals then that's another story. otherwise, feel free to keep hating.

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Yet, assuming there was never a class change, you can't deny that he did more damage than any other DPS or Tank in the screenshot while still doing healing equal to roughly half of the damage that many DPS seem to do in the average match. Once again assuming that there was never a class change, there is no denying that the overall numbers done by Tete Rouge were pretty outrageous if they're the norm for scholars who try to DPS (rather than just a lucky match).

I'm not hating, nor am I calling for a nerf. I'm just pointing out that it's a bit odd, as it is.

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Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...77fd59206a.jpg
Please stop. Just... just stop. You can't deny reality any more than you can change the direction the Earth spins around the sun.

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you can't take one example (with unconfirmed pure scholar stats) and claim this is proof that scholars are overpowered. You can NOT assume the player was on scholar the entire time and to do so is naive. Those numbers are akin to aoe casters numbers i see regularly. Start posting some more "proof" and maybe people will listen but at the moment you are grasping at straws to try and prove an invalid point. Besides, ONE person, in one game does not make it the norm.


Vandril,

I will give you this however, if and it's a big if, this person was on scholar the entire time then there was serious long term non stop fighting going on and again.. not the norm for Frontlines.

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Originally Posted by Tinsley

Vandril,

I will give you this however, if and it's a big if, this person was on scholar the entire time then there was serious long term non stop fighting going on and again.. not the norm for Frontlines.

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Personally, I wouldn't know how Scholar damage is, yet, as I don't yet have one, so I'll take your word for it.

But, yes, one screenshot does not reliable proof make. Especially in a game that allows class switching. We'd need video proof from the start to the end of multiple FL matches from numerous different people before we could see if it's a real problem or not. I was just saying that it's not entirely impossible that healer damage isn't overtuned for PvP, either. It would be nice if someone could record some fairly solid evidence one way or the other while playing a DPS-healer.

I guess I would say that even if these are accurate they aren't the norm. I'm not gonna claim to be some god level pvper but there is very little time -especially- in wolves den where i have the oppertunity to clerics, dot, bane and go back to healing. If the other team has even half a clue what they are doing this will almost never happen. The best you can hope for is bio swiftcast bio 2 and surecast misama, which right there takes out 2 of your defensive cooldowns plus an aether stack for bane.
I also have a hard time believing that person in FL was dpsing as sch the whole time simply because despite whether your healing or dpsing all the enemy sees is a healer and your gonna get ganged up on.

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Originally Posted by Gor

I have kited enemies across the map even without Eos. its nothing not even complicated and there is nothing op about that whatsoever and i don't even heal for that much.

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Yup, totally not broken to kite that many people while not healing for much. You are SO right. /sarcasm
Every post I've read of your's Gor has just been you contradicting yourself. You claim Scholar isn't OP and then describe how you kite parties across the ENTIRE MAP (exaggeration I would hope) while in tank gear, or just using adloquium occasionally. Does Scholar need to be nerfed to the ground? No. Do they need to be toned down? Hell yes. To be honest, I don't know exactly what should be done....personally, I'd start with changing galvanize for PVP ONLY. Obviously we don't want to see any change ruin them in PVE, which despite how any super hardcore PVPer feels.....mmo's are pretty much built for PVE first. It is the majority of the player-base's focus after all. They already did a PVP only change with the stun durations, so it wouldn't be hard to implement any other things PVP specific.

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I totally get what you're saying, SCH antics aren't as strong as what is being seen, but the thing is to the new (PvP) player it's one of those walls that they cannot climb over. I've been doing pvp since the SCH/SMN nerfs (which were totally justified IMO) I know how to deal with SCHs/WHMs as a melee, newer players, however, don't have a clue what to do against SCHs/WHMs which make teams stacking healers just even more stronger than intended. One SCH with six lustrates was enough but four-five of them? It makes it nearly impossible to make a dent into someone. I feel that solo SCH/WHM isn't a big deal but there has to be something done about stacking healers.

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My thoughts exactly, it's a cheese tactic, and unfortunately it's generally used by more experienced groups, which magnifies the issue. The point of it being really hard for new players to get into PvP is particularly salient, and probably SE's first concern. Stacked healers can also make for an incredibly boring and tedious match, something that's not healthy for PvP in general. Of course, that's generally lost on the people who are chasing the top of the table.

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Originally Posted by monkeytheman

Every post I've read of your's Gor has just been you contradicting yourself. You claim Scholar isn't OP and then describe how you kite parties across the ENTIRE MAP (exaggeration I would hope) while in tank gear, or just using adloquium occasionally. Does Scholar need to be nerfed to the ground? No. Do they need to be toned down? Hell yes.

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I never said the ENTIRE map; YOU said that. Good job putting words in my mouth tho. Across the map as in from one flag to the other or from one flag to up top. And no I am not contradicting myself. There is nothing op about being able to kite enemies from one flag to the other. I've done it in WoW on a Disc Priest and I can do it here in FFXIV on a SCH. Its all about being diminishing returned out, being conservative about my spells, watching what my enemies are casting and the dots they put on me, knowing what dots I should cleanse and which ones to leave up, watching my cool downs and juking until I can get them to my teammates who deal with them or running into a PLD along the way who Covers/Testudos me. Nothing op about that whatsoever.

"I never said the ENTIRE map; YOU said that."
Hi, I am a message that you posted earlier in the thread, love me.

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Originally Posted by Gor

I have kited enemies across the map even without Eos. its nothing not even complicated and there is nothing op about that whatsoever and i don't even heal for that much.

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I guess I am assuming that "across the map" would entail an exaggeration of across the entire map.

Like I said, I read some of your posts....found this one the funniest contradiction (of the ones i read anyways....guessing there are more like it). If you, without eos and no really healing much (which would probably just mean using adlo "occasionally"), are able to kite multiple enemies (I remember another post you made about kiting groups....cant find it) without dying from one point to another (which is a rather long distance all things considered), that is not balance. Sure, the people chasing you could not have a keyboard or controller with functioning keys and they are just trying to auto attack you to death....but people that are attacking you should actually put some sort of dent in you. When you focus fire a lone scholar, and they don't even come close to dying, that's not okay.....hell, NO class should be able to do that. The scholar doesn't even have to be very good to pull it off. Please don't get me wrong here, I don't want to see healers die instantly. I want to see a focus-fired scholar die in less than what feels like 3 business days. Clearly a highly organized group will take them down, but it still takes a long damn time...too long really. Nerfing the pet isn't the right way to go about it either. Maybe taking away the double potency shield on crit from galvanize....but that could be too harsh. The way i see it scholar is a hard class to balance for PVP.

look bro, i'm not going to get into a debate of words with you. i never said entire. you assumed i meant from Manor to Markets or from Storm Post to Adder Post. from one flag to the other and from a flag to up top is also across the map, imply that i went a lengthy distance, or you could even look at it as going from down to up or from up to down ... maybe even diagonally if it makes you so happy. or even put your map on a cd player and watch it spin around. in fact, i may just get bored one game and try to kite enemy players across the ENTIRE map. so unless you're going to arrest me, am i free to go grammar cop?

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Originally Posted by monkeytheman

I want to see a focus-fired scholar die in less than what feels like 3 business days.

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I have tons of videos of SCHs dying in seconds that weren't from an LB. Even I have been downed in seconds when focus-fired, but the reality is, most enemy teams don't. It has nothing do with the SCH as a class and more to do with being properly focus-fired. Its not SE's fault pugs can't get theirselves together to manage to accomplish that. no amount of nerfing will stop a healer from healing if they aren't focus-fired and just allowed to free ball it.

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Originally Posted by monkeytheman

I want to see a focus-fired scholar die in less than what feels like 3 business days.

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Here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgzZWVV0g9M&list=UUxkkvHHUmtmOfkNnVtK1xqA#t=109

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...R-ezYCSzXo#t=3

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Originally Posted by monkeytheman

people that are attacking you should actually put some sort of dent in you.

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They do, I recover from it.

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Originally Posted by monkeytheman

When you focus fire a lone scholar, and they don't even come close to dying, that's not okay.....hell, NO class should be able to do that.

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now you are exaggerating just to prove your point. was another healer around? was the healer being covered and testudo'd? are you SURE all your dps was on the SCH and also had a tank or another dps interrupting the casts of hte other healers around?

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Originally Posted by monkeytheman

Please don't get me wrong here, I don't want to see healers die instantly.

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no, that is exactly what you're requesting because we die in seconds if we are focus fired its just that most pugs don't do it. you're asking SE to nerf a class that is the essential part of any group AND as such we are the first targets all the time, everytime. if we are dead, so are you and your entire team. its not like the enemy healers have super powers and have an "S" on their chests that the healers on your team do not. i'm guessing you don't play mmos with pvp in them that much because i don't know any game with pvp that healers go down easy, in fact, i find the healing classes in FFXIV are much weaker for the simple fact its pretty much almost a 100% chance that if you're hit, you're interrupted, so what i, and probably what other healers do as well, is just juke ("faking" a cast to make the other player cast) so while my attacker is just standing there staring at me because he's sitting in a global cool down, i am free to get 1 or 2 heals off. its nothing op but knowing how the mechanics in the game work and playing around it and using your knowledge against their knowledge to out-smart them.

Look, I get that you want to defend your class/job, but thinking you are perfectly fine? That's absurd. Yes I exaggerated....pretty sure if you read my post most of the exaggeration would be fairly obvious. Wasn't trying to hide the exaggerated parts lol. I'll say it again, I DO NOT WANT TO SEE SCHOLAR NERFED TO THE POINT OF DYING INSTANTLY. I would like to see them die when focused fired by less than.....5-6 people....when the scholar is alone. I get this happens more when people are bad...and there are plenty of bad players and I'm not great myself. But I can see problems when there are problems. A player should survive a focus fire, when alone, due to outplaying the opponents (assuming both parties are of equal skill). Not really an outplay when people are bad. If you are going to pick apart this message as well and try and argue that the players aren't of equal skill because they got outplayed....you don't understand what outplaying someone is. You also probably think I'm here to troll or anger you or other scholars....I'm not. I'm also done with this topic. I put my opinion out there and suggested a change that isn't overly ridiculous. Because I'm sure this comment will be replied to (most likely by you) I just want you to understand before I close out my end of our conversation that I do not want your class/job to feel useless, I want to see better balance. That's all. I would also like to point out that people wont take you seriously when you end most of your posts with "get guud".....just saying. (And yes, you DID say "get guud" spelled like that a few times.)

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Originally Posted by monkeytheman

I would also like to point out that people wont take you seriously when you end most of your posts with "get guud"

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I am a cat person running around in an imaginary land full of demons, dragons, 2 feet high people and flying cabbages. I don't care if people take me seriously or not.

p.s. get guud

All this is temporary until morale sets in, but if people truly feel healers are too difficult then other options are to not make Medica 2 stack in PvP, or give a healing debuff to Dragoons and Monks. Nerfing healers isn't going to solve many problems, which are entirely player problems.

You know it's a player problem when sometimes 1 decent scholar can kite 1 group of 4 people and sometimes he just dies outrightly to a different group of 4 people. Either of the 2 options above (or even both) should be enough considering how practically only Marauders are able to keep the debuff up. This is excluding how Marauders have the best toolkit to handle healers and flag based games.

It doesn't seem to hold much water when you have problems at the flag itself since I doubt very many things can plow through 2 regens and 2 MedII's, along with a stray Whispering Dawn.

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Originally Posted by monkeytheman

Not really an outplay when people are bad.

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I don't understand. If someone is worse than you are, then they played worse, and thus got outplayed. ??

You know what i find funny.. people think that because they want to kill another player (Scholar) they think they have the right to kill said player(scholar).

I am not a NPC. I will not die every time I am attacked. But i can be killed. I will not die in 2 hits. but i can be killed. YOU don't have the right to kill me every time you attack me. But i can be killed. I will do everything i can to survive and if you don't like it, take your ball, go home and cry into your pillow.

BTW, If i attack you, i fully expect you to put up a fight and try to best me. hence the entire idea of pvp.

I'll make it short : tunnel visionned dpsers that go one on one on a healer who got all its survival cds up actually just don't unterstand how to pvp to begin with.

One person shouldn't be able to solo a healer and thats it. Now on the scholar topic I feel like these last days people actually understand how to play white mage and it show. Scholars begin to be really focused as they should be, with a clever use of crowd controls and whm / summoners / bards constantly usin knockbacks so the scholar cant be in the range to either heal or dps, its happenin a lot to me lately at least and I find it pretty FUN to actually have to outsmart my opponents and counter with a swiftcast blizzard 2 / lurin people so I can use aura blast properly and stuff, but yeah, with 3 persons on me that know what they are doin I usually die in like 5 seconds without healin at all.

On the eos case its a single target embrace every 3 secs + whisperin dawn and I don't think that its any kind of op.

Scholars don't need to be toned down, dpsers just need to play properly. Its just that, as a bad dpser its not easy to take down an average healer and again, nobody should be able to solo a heal or we would just be pinatas.

Thanks, but no thanks. Im not playin a healer to not be able to take a little beating while I'm healin my teamates, the last game that began to introduce this I just went the hell away from it


Perfect example of competent dpser vs non competent ones :


Non competent -> http://imgur.com/A187JvE / http://imgur.com/gllQq0O

Competent -> http://i.imgur.com/Uhsm6c6.jpg (Hinata dude, that did like 22 - 1 in the next match and that panda dude did good too)


Keep in mind that they are more dpsers than any other roles so you ll most likely find more players that just wont play it right, even more so in pvp and since a healer SHOULD be able to outheal one person all the time I don't see an issue. If you let me play with a pillar I can kite 4 dudes but meanwhile I'm not healin btw if I dont have surecast / swiftcast up so I kinda find that people love to exagerate in this thread

If I'm running Scholar and I've got a team of 8 focusing on me, they can usually kill me in a minute or two. Of course that raises the question- where's my backup? I usually join as Summoner, switch to Scholar if more healers are needed, but if I stick to the objective while the party members I'm trying to heal run out of range, don't attack the target I mark as the one doing the most interrupts on me, etc and I end up facing the other party alone- if that happens twice, the way I see it is- I queue'd in as a DPS, I can go back to being a DPS.

I often wonder if when it takes a full party a minute or two to kill me as Scholar if they feel a sense of accomplishment, or incredibly frustrated. I hope the latter. And I can only hope while I'm occupying 8 people the rest of my party is accomplishing something.