Tam-tara is such a hard dungeon.

If they can’t even run Tam-tara without Protect, then they have way bigger issues to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Snowflower

...a lvl 50 bard with some soldiery gear says "no protect?", I say no and the bard is like "what kind of dumb shit is that"...

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I suspect the BRD(or the PT) didn't know Protect is WHM's ability if you just replied "no" for "no protect?" ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

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Yes Tamtara is an easy dungeon, but I was running it a few days ago as a level 50 tank but with all the level sync, I still need healing.
My white mage thought "hur dur im gonna spam cleric stance" and at on point I almost died because I was down to about 1% hp from him not healing me.
So yes, that protect actually saved me (along with the 1 cool down I could actually use).

If you don't want to do your job, and you act rude when people point this fact out, don't be surprised that they kick you.

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Youre assuming that b/c your herp derp healer almost let you die that the OP is the same way. No. personally if I go sch i will cleric stance in tam tara, and i will keep the party alive. And if someone calls me out of my name(like they called the OP an idiot), rest assured I would not let them get away with it. And if in the end they vote-kick me like they did the op, ill just que again.

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Originally Posted by Snowflower

Haha! I bet money he would've proceeded to call me more names anyways if I explained nicely my rationale for not having protect. In fact, he blew up in my face already when I answered "no" to his "no protect?" question where he rudely responded with "what kind of dumb shit is that?" instead of..."why?". Instinctively, that told me he thinks he's God and his beliefs are law and justice. :P

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And then they kicked YOU out. What about the guy that acted like that? Probably buddies who go through healers like McD's goes through cashiers. I've found a new respect for every class as I go through them. The strengths and weaknesses of which I was not aware come to light quickly. Tanking looks easy, right? Bang on something and flash once in a while. Shoot, I shield lob, flash, even show my butt crack to some of these guys and they go after the healer! Then as a MRD, I find out that I don't have as much flash because my MP is lower than GLA. Shoot, gotta make up for that. I need a middle finger move. :D It happens, and I have to suck it up and do my best. I see tanks throw protect all the time, now I know why. The ARC or BRD may not have been aware, and maybe the conversation could have gone differently, but if the first thing I say to you when we meet for the first time is, "What kind of a dumb shit are you?", we might not have a great relationship out of the gate.

I bet this BRD is also one who ignores tank markings. Or if the tank isn't marking (like most times) they don't even use common sense and attack the same mob the tank is attacking.

How I target if no markings.
99% of the time the same one the tank is attacking. But if for some reason another mob is going down faster than the others I switch to that one even if its not the one the tank is beating on.

Most DPS make me wonder how they remember to even breathe.

I heal all the time without protect. If they need any more than Eos before Halatali they're the ones having problems. I stay in cleric stance for most of the low dungeons, never lost a player because of it.

someone care to explain to me how a 10% in low dongeon is nothing while 10 % in high dongeon is a lot?...10 % is still 10 %, wheather small or high is 10% damages less and HP are proportional to the level, in higher level 10 % is a bigger figure but not because it protects more, is because the basic figures are higher nothing else. So the importance of that 10 % is in essence the same eitehr in small or high it mitigates damages for 10 % and having a protect can be life saviour even if only to allow a healer to wake up because was falling asleep relying too much on Eos eh?

This reminds me of a joke, what is heavier 1kilo feather or 1kg iron

Also is one thing to be the only one to require healing because the others basically take no damages because well all sync (even if this is alien to me since you are sync is like you were down to low level figures yte is not exactly so) and being in a full starting players but healer. I had that happen to me healer was just not concentrate even if I said I was not used to tank and not geared enough for that dungeon, so were the others and I kept dying the healer said I was guilty..lol...some healers should requestion themselves really...same as in CT you dont have SS ? the answer was No I am too lazy to get it. That healer spend all her CT without SS from me...

Mei

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

someone care to explain to me how a 10% in low dongeon is nothing while 10 % in high dongeon is a lot?...10 % is still 10 %, wheather small or high is 10% damages less and HP are proportional to the level, in higher level 10 % is a bigger figure but not because it protects more, is because the basic figures are higher nothing else. So the importance of that 10 % is in essence the same eitehr in small or high it mitigates damages for 10 % and having a protect can be life saviour even if only to allow a healer to wake up because was falling asleep relying too much on Eos eh?

This reminds me of a joke, what is heavier 1kilo feather or 1kg iron

Also is one thing to be the only one to require healing because the others basically take no damages because well all sync (even if this is alien to me since you are sync is like you were down to low level figures yte is not exactly so) and being in a full starting players but healer. I had that happen to me healer was just not concentrate even if I said I was not used to tank and not geared enough for that dungeon, so were the others and I kept dying the healer said I was guilty..lol...some healers should requestion themselves really...same as in CT you dont have SS ? the answer was No I am too lazy to get it. That healer spend all her CT without SS from me...

Mei

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Because the scaling isn't linear.
A Plundered Cuirass has 44 defense 10% is 4.4
A Lords Cuirass has 148 defense 10% is 14.8

Since each point of defense seems to be 0.04% dr (http://valk.dancing-mad.com/calculat...ge-mitigation/)
This means at low level you got .176% increased dr, while at high level you got .592% increased dr. Now while this is just one piece of gear it should give you an idea of why this isn't linear.

It doesnt matter what you compare the percentage is the same 10 % thus the use of it is the same this of 10%, simple as that, saying that 10% at lower level is nonsense and not useful ebcause figures are ridiculous that 10% mitigation wont make a difference is nonsense, ebcause the one being protected with 10% is better protected then this that has nothing which is exactly the point I want to make.

Numbers are different ebcause well they are different is proportionate the protection figures are different depending on the numbers you are adding but the percentage of protection is STILL 10% either low or high, or can dispute this ? and 10% is better then nothing and CAN make a difference right? so having it has it use.

But that is just me

Mei

Tamtara is a lv 15 duns. And the party are at least ilv 50 for each members. Please don't tell me you really need Protect with that over geared level for such a low level duns and without it, you can not finish it????I mean REALLY???? Do the mobs really scare you that much???? o_O????

Oh and 10% of a dollar is not the same with 10% of a thousand dollar. And if you still think they are the same, I suppose you are really REALLY REALLY bad at Maths....

Why does everyone have to tell the healer how to do their job? I'd rather have my healers equip cleric stance on ttd that bother with damage mitigation when there's barely any damage going out to begin with. But they are the healer and it's at their discretion!

As a side note how easy this dungeon is, when my friend was leveling scholar he'd put himself on follow and afk. He'd even tell them he was doing that. Then get 3 commendations. Lol

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

You que as a healer so your main job is to heal.
If you want to DPS so badly, que as a DPS.
They had every right to kick you.

Yes Tamtara is an easy dungeon, but I was running it a few days ago as a level 50 tank but with all the level sync, I still need healing.
My white mage thought "hur dur im gonna spam cleric stance" and at on point I almost died because I was down to about 1% hp from him not healing me.
So yes, that protect actually saved me (along with the 1 cool down I could actually use).

If you don't want to do your job, and you act rude when people point this fact out, don't be surprised that they kick you.

(Although I've seen a few healers like you and instead of arguing I just cast protect and stoneskin myself as a paladin.)

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You're forgetting they were on SCHOLAR. Eos is super OP in low levels, there's no reason to step outside of Cleric Stance unless things go very wrong.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

It doesnt matter what you compare the percentage is the same 10 % thus the use of it is the same this of 10%, simple as that, saying that 10% at lower level is nonsense and not useful ebcause figures are ridiculous that 10% mitigation wont make a difference is nonsense, ebcause the one being protected with 10% is better protected then this that has nothing which is exactly the point I want to make.

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It's not 10% damage mitigation, though. It's 10% more defense. The healer in cleric stance mitigates more damage than that prevents simply by virtue of the fact that things die really fast when you essentially have 3 DPS.

The other night, I ran into a Sch who had no fairy out and spammed Physick all the run, no Shield, nothing as a tank. To put it over the top, he even healed in Cleric stance...When I pointed out he had been doing wrongly, a very straight answer from him just make me want to leave immediately : "Shut up!!!Don't tell me how to do my job".... And as a result, we ran cooperbell mine.story mode and wiped multiple times....And I was ilv91 Pal and did everything I could just to survive....

I don't really see the issue as protect or no protect... The issue I see is people auto bickering with one another as if they and their way are SE's gift to the game. If it were vigil or something and a SCH wanted to argue that he didn't need to throw out a protect 'cause eos was compensating anyway, I'd probably question the logic (or lack thereof) but someone choosing SC over protect at a level where only one cross class is available seems petty and childish. You probably requeued before they got another heal anyway. For future reference, responding to rude behavior in kind has rarely done anyone any favors.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

The other night, I ran into a Sch who had no fairy out and spammed Physick all the run, no Shield, nothing as a tank. To put it over the top, he even healed in Cleric stance...When I pointed out he had been doing wrongly, a very straight answer from him just make me want to leave immediately : "Shut up!!!Don't tell me how to do my job".... And as a result, we ran cooperbell mine.story mode and wiped multiple times....And I was ilv91 Pal and did everything I could just to survive....

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I purposely de-summon my fairy sometimes when people are purposely standing in AoEs and not trying to make any effort to move at all. I ask them to try to move out of the stuff, and if they don't respond or don't make any effort still I don't heal them when they get hit by easily avoidable stuff. Since I can't tell my fairy not to heal him in particular, I de-summon my fairy and just heal the tank. I'll heal him if he gets hit by unavoidable stuff during a boss fight, I wouldn't purposely wipe the party like that.

I know your story doesn't sound anything like that though, different case all together.

*edit*

seriously, this 1000 char limit is starting to pi*s me off

He never has his fairy out from the very beginning which I did not notice till I realised I had been put in too many dire situations and wiped relatively speaking with my gear ilv 91. Then I started keeping an eye on the Healer and that was when I saw Physick spam and no fairy at all....And on top, in Cleric stance...

As for Fairy, I believe you can choose who, she wiill heal by putting her on Obey command. I think so, may be wrong though.

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Originally Posted by peaches

I purposely de-summon my fairy sometimes when people are purposely standing in AoEs and not trying to make any effort to move at all. I ask them to try to move out of the stuff, and if they don't respond or don't make any effort still I don't heal them when they get hit by easily avoidable stuff. Since I can't tell my fairy not to heal him in particular, I de-summon my fairy and just heal the tank. I'll heal him if he gets hit by unavoidable stuff during a boss fight, I wouldn't purposely wipe the party like that.

I know your story doesn't sound anything like that though, different case all together.

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Why would you go out of your way to not heal people? Why should it matter if they're getting hit when Eos/Selene can still handle solo healing? It's possible that they are not dodging because it slows DPS, and the damage received is nothing that Eos/Selene can't handle by herself. So you've succeeded in nothing but slowing the run down. This is exactly why I only roll SCH in Low level roulette, cause of people like you.

I've always assumed Protect is more important than just 10% more def O.o I remember running around in S. Thanalan while levelling, and those sabotenders with their 100 needles did 100 damage without Protect, 50 damage with Protect (non-boosted). Maybe attacks like that are treated differently?

But yeah, for those first dungeons.... Sure, Protect is always nice and it's like hugging your security blanket tightly :p But I wouldn't throw a fit right at the start. If it turned out the party had trouble surviving, however, I'd request the healer (or anyone with access to CNJ crossclass skills, really) to shuffle their skills around for a quick boost. And should you happen to have people still in classes instead of jobs, which seems more likely if you have trouble surviving without Protect, it's probably even easier to find someone with access to skill slots for Protect =)

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

You que as a healer so your main job is to heal.
If you want to DPS so badly, que as a DPS.

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It's so stupid

Well as a whm I do put protect, but I still hardly ever heal in tamtara. Most of the time I can just dps and let the tank regen his health after the fight, at most he needs a cure per pull. The only monsters that do some real damage are the Void Soulcounter and the final boss. Oh, and the room with the last orb as well, because of the number of enemies.

I never had anyone give me shit for only having cleric stance in lowbie dungeons.

Hell, I had an ARC do protect when I said I only had cleric stance, and they were happy I, a healer, planned dpsed at all to make the dungeon go faster.

I actually had OP in my party today(Pretty sure, I think) when I was doing roulette on my PLD. It was in Tam Tara even. I was surprised at the lack of Protect at first, but really the increased damage was pretty negligible. SCH is overkill in low level dungeons anyway so not having Protect is not really a big deal.

OP: You could have avoided the whole drama simply by being more tactful about it. I don't have protect loaded as default even in 50 dungeons, if people comment on it I simply offer to load it up if they will wait for a minute on my cooldowns. Problem solved with little fuss or drama.

As for the comments of 'you're here to heal'. Don't underestimate how much dps a geared SCH can do on low/mid level trash pulls, it's far from insignificant damage. Cutting the time spent on trash by 30% or more is nothing to be sniffed at.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

I've always assumed Protect is more important than just 10% more def O.o I remember running around in S. Thanalan while levelling, and those sabotenders with their 100 needles did 100 damage without Protect, 50 damage with Protect (non-boosted). Maybe attacks like that are treated differently?

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I'm going slightly off topic, however I just wanted to say that the # Needles share damage. Meaning, another person was near you and took 50 damage as well. Same thing happens with Fireballs in T5 after all. Protect actually wasn't protecting in that case.

I use macros while targeting the tank my dots hit the tanks target and non stop cast example:
/pac embrace <t>
/ac ruin/bio/miasma/"bio II" <tt>

That way every time you cast the tank will get hit by embrace and you still get to dot and tank pretty much stays full health

Your fairy is programmed to heal any ally below 85% hp. You cannot control the who even with obey.

When in town you can put protect as cross class, use it in the dungeon and then swap for cleric stance and you won't suffer the 30 second penalty.

Hi, people should relax a bit and let each one do his job, especially in an easy place.

I have met, playing as a tank, lately in the Expert Level roulette SCH who go in Cleric Stance all the way, no problems at all, super smooth run, nobody said anything.

Why complain and judge if there have been no problems yet?

A question now: somebody said EoS is a level 30 SCH pet. How is it you can use EoS in the lower level dungeons?

The skill used to summon it is low level, the same you use to summon blue carbuncle, but you have to have the sch stone equipped, which you get at lvl 30.

Ooooh noooo!!

No protect? How are we going to do this dungeon now?

Pfft.. pansies.

I have to laugh, cause after this discussion, I've been watching at the beginning of that dungeon (never really cared before). If I see a SCH, and I'm using my GLA, I pop protect myself. If I'm a MRD, I just plow forward. :D

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Originally Posted by JillyBean

As a career healer and WHM main, I'll say you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. People are never happy. Not only that, they're all different and never expect the same thing.

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Meh! People will complain about anything, and if there's nothing to complain about, they will complain about that or jump to conclusions (usually wrong) just to have something they can whine about XD

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

Yes Tamtara is an easy dungeon, but I was running it a few days ago as a level 50 tank but with all the level sync, I still need healing.

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Obviously, the primary purpose of a healer is to keep people alive. However past that, you should thank them if they make a dungeon that boring and easy go by a bit faster. Those early dungeons are cake, and you sure as hell don't need protect, let alone stoneskin. I think we can do more than stand there doing nothing 90% of the time, occasionally pressing Cure 1, I would literally fall asleep if that's all I was doing, and then you really would die! I mean, you can't even run out of sp at that lvl.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

My white mage thought "hur dur im gonna spam cleric stance" and at on point I almost died because I was down to about 1% hp from him not healing me.

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So your white mage was adding dps, and you didn't die, Onoes! Th3 horrorz!

Vote kicked the Healer and the other 2 players agreed. ROFLMAO. There is a 30 to 40 min wasted wait time in DF for the 2 DPS. Bet your got back into a Dungeon in under 5.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

If you see it as so easy, then why care about Cleric Stance? You have 2 DPS and you're not saving any real time by adding another 10% to your attack (stone only, at that level).

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read OP properly please. OP was on SCH. SCH has 2 or 3 DOTs already at that level + ruin. It is so much faster with SCH for tam-tara.

I'm dumbfounded by the fact people cant comprehend the fact that sch is a dps/healer hybrid mostly heals yes, but for low levels they are basically arcanists with a more potent physick so asking them to use only that one skill is stupid and is why they have a healer pet with access to an aoe regen skill so they can heal for you until you have access to your other skills. I've never had anyone die (unless they were being completely stupid) while I bounced back and forth from dps and heals.

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Originally Posted by Karatecatgrl

Your fairy is programmed to heal any ally below 85% hp. You cannot control the who even with obey.

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With obey you can still tell her who to heal you can have her cast even at full health. But if someone does fall below 85 she will prioritize

Hi, I know the OP is high level so his INT and Mind will be very different.

I have just reached level 30 ACN and become SCH and Summoner. I have my points in INT and the gear is mostly INT since it comes from ACN.

Funny: If I put Cleric Stance I lose INT and gain Mind, since I have more INT... I started with Eos and Cleric Stance in my first dungeon (Haukke Manor normal) for a long time (all went well) until by curiosity I checked how much INT I gained for DPS purposes in Cleric Stance and discovered I losed!

Sort of anti-Cleric stance, lol.

(My main is PLD but I also have WHM and BLM, now ilvl 86, up to now I have healed with WHM but I want Eye for an Eye so am leveling SCH.)