Healing with Cleric Stance ON

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

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I main a healer class that's why I glance at the party list often. And sorry to say, I can multi-task. Too bad if you can't :/

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Originally Posted by Roll

I remember something similar happened to me while I was dual tanking Hydra with a Warrior.
The WHM left Cleric Stance on and right before the Warrior pulled, I said "Cleric Stance is on" to try to remind the whm to disable it. About 30 seconds later into the fight, I see the whm spam casting Cure2 with Cleric Stance still on trying to keep us alive with low potency heals from the Cleric Stance being on. I assumed he didn't see what I said so I said "Cleric Stance is on" 5 more times in party chat. The other healer in our group got defensive and said "Wow... I'll turn it on if you keep spamming like that..." I'm like wtf? I said "Well I saw him healing with it on" Then the other healer says "Oh... Well that might be that's a little different then".

I said I was sorry for spamming but if it was left on for the whole fight without him knowing, things would have gotten very messy fast. People need to stop getting defensive over reminders and helpful advice. I know it's a little insulting sometimes taking advice from people who aren't even your job but sometimes it means the difference between a smooth run and an unnecessary wipe.

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With things like this (cleric's stance, shield oath, defiance, etc), I'll normally just mention it once in chat, and then leave it alone after that. If all hell breaks loose and we have a wipe, then I'll bring it up again, but I generally don't find it's worth bringing up repeatedly as people tend to take offense and get pissy. Not saying you're wrong in the least bit, I just don't find it's worth it personally.

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Originally Posted by Roll

I remember something similar happened to me while I was dual tanking Hydra with a Warrior.
The WHM left Cleric Stance on and right before the Warrior pulled, I said "Cleric Stance is on" to try to remind the whm to disable it.

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I understand where you went with this, and I agree they should turn it off eventually (like before healing). However, starting a fight with Cleric Stance shouldn't really matter. Maybe they want to throw on some DoTs or Stones before the tank is in any real danger. I know I'm slightly annoyed whenever someone tells me to turn it off before starting a battle for just that reason.

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Originally Posted by Neone

I understand where you went with this, and I agree they should turn it off eventually (like before healing). However, starting a fight with Cleric Stance shouldn't really matter. Maybe they want to throw on some DoTs or Stones before the tank is in any real danger. I know I'm slightly annoyed whenever someone tells me to turn it off before starting a battle for just that reason.

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They only tell you in case you aren't aware, no need to get annoyed, better safe than sorry.

@Souljacker If the healer is not DPSing and spamming heal with cleric stance, there is a problem.

In lower level dungeons, it's pretty easy as a scholar to run the whole thing in cleric stance and have the fairy heal. I've also seen really well geared whms (like i100) do a low level in cleric stance and just spam heals when needed. But this is low level dungeons only. Higher level or endgame, I think it's better to only switch to cleric stance if you know you can do it without endangering the party.

But more on topic, if you do use cleric stance, you should actually DPS. I ran Tam Tara once with a CNJ in cleric and because I know what the attacks sound like, I could tell without looking that the CNJ wasn't using Aero or Stone. I think I even brought it up and the CNJ was under the assumption that he healed better in cleric stance.

Well I'm all for healers DPSing when healing isn't needed, that's perfectly fine, but when people are about to die from the healer forgetting to turn off Cleric Stance I'm not gonna wait till after a wipe to mention it lol.
But the good thing was after all was said and done, we all apologized to each other and carried on(me for spamming, whm for forgetting to turn it off, other healer for getting upset, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Alukah

They only tell you in case you aren't aware, no need to get annoyed, better safe than sorry.

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Yeah, you're probably right. I guess I have a short tempter to people who are trying to tell (or remind, if you want to call it that) me how to do my job :P

Bads gonna bad.

/thread

Honestly, it happens. Usually when this happens I'll actually have pressed it to turn it off but I guess I pressed it too soon, either before the GCD would allow it, or before it came off it's own cooldown. As a Scholar it's not a huge deal unless the tank is super critical health since we have Lustrate, and our fairy will be curing him too. I usually realize pretty quickly when the tank's health doesn't go back up, then after the pull is done I usually announce I forgot to turn it off and laugh at myself.

It's the same for tanks. I'll see Paladins who forget to turn on Shield Oath all the time and give them a gentle reminder, just because I know we all forget. Sometime you have to be patient though because not everybody knows what the abilities do (I guess reading comprehension isn't great). I had a Paladin in Cutter's Cry who was level synced to 40, so he was at least 41+ using Sword Oath the entire time. He was loosing enmity constantly, then one of us asked him if he had Shield Oath, and to please use it. He just laughed saying he likes to DPS, but he turned it on and we did fine after. I've had bards in level 50 content using Mage's Ballad the entire time. When I pointed it out it's lowering his damage, and asked why he's using it constantly even though everybody is full MP and there isn't any heavy damage going on, he said it INCREASES your damage, not decreases.. We had all 7 of us telling him, no it lowers your damage. He didn't believe us, but in the end he switched

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Originally Posted by Dozer

In the Diabolos fight you get hearts above your head when the doors pull you in, as well. I guess the doors are technically seducing you. "Oh, hey there door... my your frame is so ... AH!" *sucked into the door* They must be fickle though because the relationship only lasts a few seconds.

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That's hot.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

Bads gonna bad.

/thread

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Totally not the thread as there are plenty of fights that don't require turning off cleric's stance. It appears that no one wiped during the fight that the OP referenced. In any fight that forces you to have two healers, it's extremely common to see one of them to be in cleric's stance for the majority of the fight.

Without being in the instance with the OP, it's impossible to know exactly how low the tank's HP really was, or what the skill level of the healer was, or exactly how nice they were with their constant reminders, and plenty of other factors. If the other healer threatened to put on Cleric's Stance to simply annoy them, that makes me think there is more to it.

Every healer has done this at some point! As long as everyone is alive at the end, who cares? If it causes a wipe, it was TOTALLY the Fairy's fault...

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

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Instance: Moogle hard mode
Healers: scholar wearing AF1, whitemage wearing soldiery gear(cleric stance)
Tank's condition: MT at 50% hp, OT at 40% hp
DPS' condition: 3 were at 60%, 1 at 80%
My reminder: (person's name) (auto-translate function Cleric Stance)

its happened to me before, i generally just go "oh crap" to myself and turn it off when reminded.

mistakes revolving around Shield oath,cleric stance, and even defiance(though less) happen so much, cant really blame players for reminding people if it seems like it might be a mistake.

heck. i've sometimes forgotten to use Fists of fire before :x and that stays on forever!

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Originally Posted by Neone

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess I have a short tempter to people who are trying to tell (or remind, if you want to call it that) me how to do my job :P

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Not really telling you how to do your job, there's a difference between ordering someone to do something and just informing (or reminding) someone about something.

If you check other responses to this thread it's pretty common to forget you're on cleric stance, it's just making sure it's not unintentional.

depends on situation, but there were like 2-3 ppl trying to remind me that while I was really intended to attack.

the rest is muttering, only for other ppl who is not that familiar with whm that you "may" not see how skillful that whm is...However, in most cases, that whm sux/not careful enough!

These ppl usually ignore the part that I turned off Cleric Stance and cure. there is no delay between switching off -> regen -> switching on. (it's also very annoying, lots time I press too quick so finally waited 2.5 sec Cleric Stance turned off, but then instantly on again...) Well, in consider many WHM don't even know you can switching between stands very quick (at CT atomos boss for example, many WHMs in pt usually asked me as whm "do you want to cure or attack?" Even in one case, the person told me I can't do both...I just told the person "watch and learn" :P)


situation 2: Holy and Stoneskin combo. I use that a lot during High/Elite dungeons. Within like 4-6 mobs, a geared tank can survived with this:
Divine Seal -> Medica II -> regen (these 2 combine give the person 800-1100 hp per tick) -> stoneskin (due to your initial one already broken) -> regen -> cleric stance -> holy -> stoneskin -> holy -> stoneskin

stoneskin can usually last at least one GCD time with 3 mobs on tank. 2 mobs on tank, you have ~ 2x GCD time. single mob on tank you have ~3x GCD time. so knowing this, you can just stoneskin -> holy -> stoneskin -> holy ... with 2 mobs on tank, you can stoneskin -> stone II -> stone II -> stoneskin while tank is losing little hp.


for the CT atomos,

let me just muttering little more, you can stoneskin -> regen -> cleric stance -> stone II ->stone II -> stone II -> (here the mob is almost dead with other DD's help) -> stoneskin (end of here usually the tank is about to take off for next mob) -> cleric stance (off) -> regen (before tank is out of range) cleric stance (on) -> stone II x 3
in normal cases, my cleric stance off time is ~ 1 sec. so some ppl might missed it and say "oh why you use regen while cleric stance on" but you know, still, in most cases that healer sux.

situation 3: Rushing. If whm has confidence that mobs will die before tank, I think it's ok.
like that 9 gobs place between 1st and 2nd boss of Brayflox's Longstop (HM), I once saw one whm (I was drg) ran in with Cleric Stance. WHM just open Presence of Mind and nuked the hell out of gobs. all gobs died before tank with a single Benediction in between. But, then you can see some are lazy but tank is dying, so I think during this time throw a cure or two under Cleric Stance is still fine.

I think I had it worse... I main healer, and I've been raising my tank lately (helps me learn what to do and not do as a healer I think, along with how tanks are doing things. Makes me feel like I can learn my Job a bit better) anyways, I was talking haukke normal and the healer, a whm, instead of using cleric stance and dots, was sitting up on the mob using auto attack while trying to heal me. And I'm like "umm it's kinda dangerous for you to be that close" and I got "I'm doing damage, no reason to not be close" then he proceeded to die at the bottom of the stairs after the first boss from standing next to me. Came back and kept doing it the entire dungeon outside the last boss. Managed to atleast get him to stand behind them but seriously? I main healer... I wanted to snap at him soooo bad.. But I didn't. End of the run I just said "... Good luck."

As a scholar theres almost no reason to remove cleric stance for most dungeons(stone vigil and qarn being the exceptions in low level) since it doesnt affect embrace, and embrace is more than enough to heal most of those dungeons. Not the same with whm of course.

I don't think it's honestly such a big deal. It always depends on the dungeon you're doing of course. But I can pretty much heal just about anything in cleric stance. I'm level 106 so it feels a little bit of overkill for me to be healing say, leviathan with another geared healer and not dps. I spend 85% of that fight in cleric stance. Granted if you're healing and no dpsing and the tank is dying in cleric stance, then you're just doing it wrong, but if everyone is alive and well I don't really see the issue.

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Originally Posted by Nayto

Fix'd.

"Omnonom... hmm... don't think you popped all your cooldowns there... omnomnom."

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woops just noticed, thanks for the fix

Ehhh, the whole cleric stance thing used to bother me, but now I just remind the healer, then continue on. I can't complain if I'm alive, even if my HP isn't high.

Sometimes on low level roulettes I'll intentionally heal with cleric stance on, especially if my heals are spiking hate in my direction with a less experienced tank. Heals are so massive in early dungeons anyways that it's hardly a big deal. Most of the time I realize right away if I forgot cleric stance because I know about how much I heal for. Learning to stance dance, though, definitely had some embarrassing fumbles along the way. Happens to all of us.

As was said, it depends on the specific situation. If the healer knows the fight, and knows a Tank with 50% health still has a metric tonne of health, and nothing capable of one-shotting the Tank is currently due up in the fight rotation, then things are still fairly easy to manage stance-wise.

Compulsive need to keep the Tanks topped off, can be bad resource management, situation-dependent.

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Originally Posted by shrek

reason why the cleric stance still on is because:
1. Trying to turn it off but fail because press/click it while casting spell.
2. Click it twice to turn it off that make it lock Cleric stance for 5sec until can turn it off again.
5. Lag and can't turn it off.

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So much this ( > . >

1 often leads to 2, since it makes me spam the key to turn it off. Very bad design...

if we heal on CS sometimes is because we know what we r doing, even if your hp is droping, but its cool when we are reminded, i just say "I know"

Yeeaaah, usually, if I have Cleric Stance on, it's for a reason; yes, even if I'm letting the tank's HP get low. But if it looks like I don't realize what I'm doing, I don't mind a polite reminder. Everyone messes up sometimes!

On the other hand, don't be a jerk about it. My policy for Duty Finder runs is 'he who whines about heals, gets no heals'.

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

Its called Crusader's Stance in the Japanese version. Makes a little bit more sense.

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In german it is penance preacher (Bußprediger)

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

With things like this (cleric's stance, shield oath, defiance, etc), I'll normally just mention it once in chat, and then leave it alone after that. If all hell breaks loose and we have a wipe, then I'll bring it up again, but I generally don't find it's worth bringing up repeatedly as people tend to take offense and get pissy. Not saying you're wrong in the least bit, I just don't find it's worth it personally.

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I play both PLD and WHM and welcome folks mentioning if I forgot to turn on shield oath (after a wipe, when tank swapping, or after job switching typically) or turn off clerics (usually because it didn't take due to GCD).

Was healing a CM yesterday with another WHM 'healer,
' who spent the whole run in clerics spamming holy. After a fight where a few died I mentioned the stance and lack of healing assistance. No reply but nothing changed. So I just figured I was solo healing and put at the bottom of my list keeping alive our squishiest and weakest dpser, the other WHM. She did die a few times as her self heals in clerics just weren't all that strong, lol.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

I think I had it worse... I main healer, and I've been raising my tank lately (helps me learn what to do and not do as a healer I think, along with how tanks are doing things. Makes me feel like I can learn my Job a bit better) anyways, I was talking haukke normal and the healer, a whm, instead of using cleric stance and dots, was sitting up on the mob using auto attack while trying to heal me. And I'm like "umm it's kinda dangerous for you to be that close" and I got "I'm doing damage, no reason to not be close" then he proceeded to die at the bottom of the stairs after the first boss from standing next to me. Came back and kept doing it the entire dungeon outside the last boss. Managed to atleast get him to stand behind them but seriously? I main healer... I wanted to snap at him soooo bad.. But I didn't. End of the run I just said "... Good luck."

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He was probably standing where he was because he was lazy and had you on follow. I had that happen once in copper hm. Ended up having to kick the sch after a while, as eos alone and sch standing in boss aoes wasn't working, and sch refused to either take off follow or assist eos. She said this was her sch playing style and no one had the right to tell her how to play her job.

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

He was probably standing where he was because he was lazy and had you on follow. I had that happen once in copper hm. Ended up having to kick the sch after a while, as eos alone and sch standing in boss aoes wasn't working, and sch refused to either take off follow or assist eos. She said this was her sch playing style and no one had the right to tell her how to play her job.

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Disgrace to scholars!!

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Originally Posted by Felis

In german it is penance preacher (Bußprediger)

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Wait.. a minute. So in Germany if you are asking ppl to seek penance, you beat the living daylights out of them?