Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

I hope the producers take this into consideration, at least.

I've played FFXI and FFXIV for well over a decade and don't bother with EX fights anymore.
One should never log on and feel upset after ten minutes.

Oh wow... this is horrible.

This is basically an apology to gear and stat carried gameplay, which is the lowest common denominator of gameplay there is.

In a game like XIV, being an old school target style MMO game, the only real way you can ask for a player to be skilled is to introduce mechanics that kill you in a fight regardless of your "gear or level". The post keeps on going about how, pretty much, you should be able to be carried by gear if you have better gear.

Horrible, definitely not my kind of game paradigm.

Then again, I play XIV while waiting for something to replace the now zombie TERA to arrive to the market, so I'm probably the minority playing a game like XIV and maybe the guy is right that it should appeal to the broader audience that wants gear-carried content clears.

I agree that complicated mechanics are unfun with pugs yet too easy / boring for coordinated groups.
It's too hard to find pugs who can do EX/Coil mechanics. When the fight is over, there's no satisfaction or fun, only relief.

If FFXIV doesn't want to make hardcore content that fewer than 10% of people play, then make both hardcore and mainstream versions. Echo isn't enough. Nerf the mechanics that are too tough for mainstream and turn the fight into "you can overgear this to make up for your lack of skill".

Or keep EX and Coil for hardcore, and make other content for mainstream. But don't expect to pull mainstream players along with just a buff, then wonder why they quit because they're not having fun with mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

The thing is FFXI is still active you can play it and the fights have not changed almost everything still is tank and spank the fights are easy compared to FFXIV you tank and spank the boss and collect your gear.

---

I can't stand the ignorance that comes from posts like this. People don't realize that old-FFXI which is what the blogger was talking about is not the same as the current FFXI. They've changed it now so it's closer to item level dependence and there are more one-shot mechanics just like FFXIV.

Overall, well formed post OP. I'd be interested to see what the Japanese forums think of the arguments.

Scary post. This would make the game easy and boring as hell, we would clear stuff extremly quick and we would be without content.
Also no one will force you to run stuff like t7, when the new coil comes out you will be able to go for t9. Like you can skip t2 now.

The content wouldn't have any challenge at all because after enough playtime you will hardly get better at your job...

He repeats a lot the fact that it's not about him clearing content or not but in the end it's all about that. He clearly lacks exp at end game and wants to be able to derp fights without taking any effort to learn the fights and get better.

I'm pretty sure if you wanna do absolutely nothing at all and pretend that's engaging that Runescape is still up and running.

Well written post, but I disagree with all of it. It's basically saying that a paradigm where skill > gear isn't good, and that gear should trump skill a majority of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

Or keep EX and Coil for hardcore, and make other content for mainstream. But don't expect to pull mainstream players along with just a buff, then wonder why they quit because they're not having fun with mechanics.

---

I'm pretty sure that this is the route they're taking anyway. We wouldn't have things like the Zodiac Weapon Saga, Hullbreaker Isle, Tam-tara HM, Ramuh (Hard), Soldiery Gear, or upgrade items dropping in CT2 coming in 2.3 if they didn't care about continuing to provide for those who aren't taking on EXs/Coil.

They create the challenge content to actually be challenge content.

I do agree that there are better ways to handle accessibility to content than the echo, mind you.

As others have said, OP presented his points but I basically disagree with all of it. Made me think he wants the game like FFXI where instead of actually learning the mechanics of the fight and applying them, you'd just chainspell stun and go to town with the most powerful abilities, breaking the fight in 30 seconds.

This is extremly wrong because if you make fights easy you will lose both casual and hardcore players. Casual players would quickly finish coil and leave till the next patch and then you will see the same from hardcore players but they would probably not come back to play something that easy.

The solution for people like him is what WoW made. Make 2 diferent modes for coil, normal mode with less mechanics and lower gear as reward, and hard mode with all the mechanics and better gear. But we already have that with CT.

I disagree that limited attempt rather than limited successes would be a better time gate- it leads to more frustration and intolerance of people learning.

Was a well written post but if this is serious what people think god help us all. I've seen so many posts from people where they get all upset and call people elitist or whatnot because people judge them based on their gear. These very same people will always argue "Gear does not equal skill" and now there's this post where this guy suggests that the game should be balanced to where GEAR>SKILL. There's really only 2 places where you can't expect to win by overgearing and rolling your face across your keyboard anyway (SCoB and some of the Ex Primals) but apparently that's still too much. If people actually want what this guy is suggesting maybe they should go play MapleStory or some crap like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kluya15

snip

---

Well I'm not a mind reader so I can't tell what the person was actually trying to convey.

To me though when people bring up those points it's not because they want gear handed to them and they want it easier. To me it's more about wanting a more social friendly environment while downing content.

Something that you can't really have when end-game bosses revolve around rotations of 5 abilities going off back to back and then some of those abilities being very punishable. Which leads to players being singled out and harassed. Personally something like DBM would really help out the community instead of parsers. In the end it's all up to every person in the group to decide what they make out of their time spent in there. Be it fun, gratifying, stressful, well spent, a waste, and so on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kletian

I disagree that limited attempt rather than limited successes would be a better time gate- it leads to more frustration and intolerance of people learning.

---

This exactly. When I was playing The Secret World, this was one of the biggest s***storms among the community - Nightmare Mode raids had a time lockout, win or lose. So everyone insisted that you have to have cleared before to go with them, and it was nearly impossible for those who hadn't already done it to get a group to even attempt it.

At least here I can create practice groups, or even on occasion jump into farm groups after talking to the PF's leader, who'll usually give me an "Okay, but if you screw up twice you're out." Because they're not risking their entire set of attempts for a day/week or hours of effort to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PotatoTree

I do not agree with this guy, and I think he is everything wrong with the game's population.

He basically wants crystal tower. Where "oh you messed up? Well we'll just raise you and we're good as new. la de dah". Thats BORING. Challenging mechanics where if you mess it up you DIE are fun. Because when you win, it doesn't feel like you just spent time in a long ass grind, it feels like you deserved it.

And people are complaining that you can do coil in lower tier gear if you can deal with the mechanics? READ THAT AS YOU CAN DO CONTENT IF YOU ARE SKILLED, NOT IF YOU ARE BUFFED OUT ON GEAR. Jesus, imagine if you were playing Starcraft and you started with double the workers because you had more "gear" compared to another player. NO. Ideally the game should be 100% skill based. Do you know how boring T4 is now that you can just faceroll it with crazy gear? Or T1 even. And this guy prides T1 and T4 as being awesome and T5 as bad because you actually need to do something in the turn? Is this a joke? Is this what mainstream players really want?

And he wants tokens for dungeon entries? Have any of you guys actually played 1.0 ffxiv? Collecting tapers and stuff for iffy was BORING. SO GODDAM BORING. Practising in coil is FUN. Because if you are not winning, it means it is HARD, so when you do win, you'll feel a sense of ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Please take your easy mode content and shove it elsewhere. Do not ruin the game for the rest of us who actually enjoy a challenge.

---

I did not interpret it in this way. I think he's looking for a middle ground and more of a diversified field of various types of fights, instead of just excessively hard or excessively easy (which is the current). He made it a note to constantly mention that it's fights against mechanics instead of just general "tough" fights that existed in FFXI. To that end it limits the playing field of who you want to go with. Do you want to go with your best friend, whos awesome as a person but really bad at the game? Or do you want to go with your LS/FC mate who you barely know, but know him or her to be amazing at dodging mechanics and good at their role? Of course you will want to go with the person who knows how to dodge things, because you want to win. In short, the further the game moves into higher and higher difficulty, the further away it moves from being social-friendly environment. Keep in mind he made mention of him having successes in Second Coil, so it's not like he's completely devoid of care when it comes to doing hardcore content.

Tell you what though, I completely agree with you on T4. That fight was fun as hell to tackle during 2.0~2.1, because of how well everyone had to be on point to ensure success. Essentially it became a fight where gear did not matter at all outside of a simple DPS check. Now you can simply faceroll it with gear and obtain easy reward.

I'd like to make this known to SE, if they ever come across this: this is the opinion of one person, please don't take his advice.

I had trouble getting passed the point where the author kept whining about mechanics. I look at it like this: if a person comes to a fight with a low ilvl, but survives the whole fight, he's more important to the group than the person who grinds for a few extra ilvls and dies. Please leave the mechanics in game, and if you feel the need to make the game more difficult, don't put a wall up of this arbitrary number, but keep bringing mechanics that challenge the players to play in a way that isn't as comfortable as spamming a rotation. That's what makes the game fun.

The most accurate post across all forums. Amen to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZReport

Tell you what though, I completely agree with you on T4. That fight was fun as hell to tackle during 2.0~2.1, because of how well everyone had to be on point to ensure success. Essentially it became a fight where gear did not matter at all outside of a simple DPS check. Now you can simply faceroll it with gear and obtain easy reward.

---

That's kinda the trick though, isn't it? There's no mechanics you Absolutely Must deal with, so the mechanics that do exist can be increasingly ignored as gear and general power continue to increase, and slowly the fight will lose identity, and ultimately challenge.

I'd like a happy mix of mechanics and tank and spank. Basically just ditch the instant death mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jellosnake

I'd like to make this known to SE, if they ever come across this: this is the opinion of one person, please don't take his advice.

I had trouble getting passed the point where the author kept whining about mechanics. I look at it like this: if a person comes to a fight with a low ilvl, but survives the whole fight, he's more important to the group than the person who grinds for a few extra ilvls and dies. Please leave the mechanics in game, and if you feel the need to make the game more difficult, don't put a wall up of this arbitrary number, but keep bringing mechanics that challenge the players to play in a way that isn't as comfortable as spamming a rotation. That's what makes the game fun.

---

It's not just one man's opinion. It's a feeling many in the community share. Also he's not saying get rid of mechanics, he's saying that when they are the main focus (including one-shot mechanics), then the game is either boring/frustrating/unplayable by players depending on their play style.

He also realises that this is not the most effective way to handle challenging content in a 'fun' way, and at least he is trying to offer an alternative, adaptive style solution to the dev team aimed at keeping players from leaving the game for the reasons stated.

I do not have a problem with mechanics in fights. It was extremely rewarding the first time I cleared T7 after several nights worth of frustration. It's still sort of weird 1-shotting T6 now after having so much trouble the first few weeks. That being said, I do feel that the mechanics are a bit too unforgiving now. Between lag issues, and just "highway hypnosis" levels of repetition it's easy to mess up once or twice in a 11 minute fight. Messing up once shouldn't immediate make 7 other players annoyed at you.

Honestly the thing that is starting to bother me more, is that everything is immune to nearly all status ailments now. Can't stun, blind, silence, or skill lock bosses at all. Immediate 100% immunity is lame. Especially when a boss uses a skill with a name like voice or shriek.

It's just going to get worse. Just a few days ago I watched a raids preview for Wildstar, and thought to myself "That does not look like fun. It looks like hours upon hours of wipes."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

It's not just one man's opinion. It's a feeling many in the community share.

---

Source to those "many"? Sorry, but like in this thread, not everyone does agree with it. And even if some do, there is no way in telling if many do or not do. Personally the OP is a good read, but reading between the lines he basically wants to being carried by Gear > Skill and no punishment at all, if doing mistakes. So Easy Mode in all cases, while you can faceroll every single Content of the Game. I am not sure how people can agree to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

He also realises that this is not the most effective way to handle challenging content in a 'fun' way, and at least he is trying to offer an alternative, adaptive style solution to the dev team aimed at keeping players from leaving the game for the reasons stated.

---

Indeed, he did a great job on writing it down and that is why he got my like, even if i disagree with his opinion.

I had to deal with enough insta kill mechanics in EQ2 to last me a lifetime. This game's itemization isn't really great either. The better your gear is the more painful the fight becomes (T6 - Honey Glaze/Bee, T7 - Cursed Voice/Renaud spawns) Honestly I hope the equipment system becomes more interesting later on because right now gear choices have no affect on any role except DPS.

Now, I don't want gear to totally trivialize the encounter but I'd definitely to see a significant increase in my character's performance from having said rewards from constantly crushing the top tier content. Right now as it stands the only way I'm able to tell my character is getting stronger is when I'm spamming Holy bombs in Mythflox.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garlyle

That's kinda the trick though, isn't it? There's no mechanics you Absolutely Must deal with, so the mechanics that do exist can be increasingly ignored as gear and general power continue to increase, and slowly the fight will lose identity, and ultimately challenge.

---

Indeed. But we both knew this would happen as a by-product of an advancing MMO regardless of the current scenario. Fights will always become outdated in time, due to increasing iLvl and echo-like buffs, which is fine. In the case of T4, the challenge for those who did it in the 5-7 month time span before 2.2 had run it's course, and in most cases throughly (which is why I enjoyed it when I did). In time even T5 which has been thrice nerfed (including Echo buff) will simply be outdated by iLevel as well.

I can fully agree with anyone's sentiments who rushed content before it was nerfed, because the true challenge laid in beating that content within the confines on the current system in play. However, it's refreshing to know that Yoshi-P will continue to deliver more challenges in the future with increasing difficulty. There will always be something new over the horizon that puts your previous hard earned gear to work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZReport

Indeed. But we both knew this would happen as a by-product of an advancing MMO regardless of the current scenario. Fights will always become outdated in time, due to increasing iLvl and echo-like buffs, which is fine. In the case of T4, the challenge for those who did it in the 5-7 month time span before 2.2 had run it's course, and in most cases throughly (which is why I enjoyed it when I did). In time even T5 which has been thrice nerfed (including Echo buff) will simply be outdated by iLevel as well.

---

Yes, but there's a drastic difference between how long it's going to take T4 to be little more than high powered mobs, and how long it's going to take T5 to be little more than that.

To side-example, as gear increases, more during Titan EX will be ignorable - you can eat more plumes in a bad dodge, you can eat bombs without fear of being KO'd; eventually you may even be able to survive superbombs -> geocrush. More DPS will push phases faster, reducing the amount of time you have to screw it up. That's inevitable, although they're still severe enough that it'll be a while before that happens. And there will always be parts of Titan EX you have to deal with - gaols and landslides. And that will retain Titan EX as a challenge to many people when that happens. And it will retain Titan's identity as a unique piece of content at that time, instead of just fading into mountains of identical trials.

I agree with everything in this post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garlyle

Yes, but there's a drastic difference between how long it's going to take T4 to be little more than high powered mobs, and how long it's going to take T5 to be little more than that.

To side-example, as gear increases, more during Titan EX will be ignorable - you can eat more plumes in a bad dodge, you can eat bombs without fear of being KO'd; eventually you may even be able to survive superbombs -> geocrush. More DPS will push phases faster, reducing the amount of time you have to screw it up. That's inevitable, although they're still severe enough that it'll be a while before that happens. And there will always be parts of Titan EX you have to deal with - gaols and landslides. And that will retain Titan EX as a challenge to many people when that happens. And it will retain Titan's identity as a unique piece of content at that time, instead of just fading into mountains of identical trials.

---

I agree wholeheartly to your sentiments, so much so that I posted a very similar response to you on page 4, lol. To that end, it's fine as well; the "challenge" is still preserved for a while longer for certain fights (Titan EX, T5) -- the win will be justified for anyone involved who is relatively new to said fight. More gear does trivalize the fight somewhat, but as you mentioned, it only trvializes the portions that players should have otherwise been able to dodge regardless. The real challenges will still be around, completely ignoring your iLvl/Echo.

However, I do believe it will get to a point where even these fights can be carried, or at least in the case of T5 recoveries mid-battle recovery from partial wipes will become possible. It will then become fights based on actions of a few who are super geared and can dodge everything, therefore carrying the rest of the party who was otherwise knocked out for a time. Biggest example being Titan HM, even before the Echo addition. A very geared tank, healer and two DPS can carry four others in that fight now. Of course the scenario would change in Titan EX, two over geared tanks, healer, 2-3 DPS, effectively limiting the carry to about 2-3 people.

i think summed up, the game relies too heavily on instanta death mechanics that can not be recovered from. ( knocked off the edge in titan ). The game is really doing a "perfection" check, you have to find 8 people that can avoid getting killed and it has to be perfect. the challenge its not that you need to be a super skilled player, the real challenge is finding 7 other people how are reasonably skilled at any given moment in time. Great if you role with a good static, not so good if do not.

as pointed out, this kinda of content does need to be in the game, there needs to be things for well tuned staitics to do

excellent post, was thinking something along these lines

I don't agree with all of it, especially the portions where he assumes to speak for the community on multiple levels, but it is well written and there are points that can be gleaned from this that I do agree with.

The parts I really agree with is the overuse of unforgiving mechanics, and the further discussion down the line of the auto-immunity to stats afflictions we give.

While I don't necessarily want it so players can simply power through or around the mechanics (like tier 2 enrage method) systems that are incredibly frustrating that instantly spell the dealth of the group can be toned down on the whole. Or at the very least, expand the endgame paths so that the difficulties are varied enough that we can more or less pick our poison.

Quote:

---

simply watching others succeed/fail at a mechanic and being powerless to do anything about it

---

This. Tanking Titan HM is the ultimate example. I stood there countless times doing a job a monkey could do, watching the rest of the party die off one by one. There was satisfaction in defeating him, but the process wasn't fun. Raiding is the last thing in the game that appeals to me, and now people in my FC are leaving because even that isn't fun anymore. It's just frustration.

The latest frustration for us is Rafflesia, but more specifically Thorny Vines. One vine connecting two people is usually simple enough for people to handle, but occasionally people run the same direction, I suspect because latency issues cause each person to think they're in front of the other, so they keep running, expecting the other to reverse course. With the worse vine configurations, one bad break can lead to a wipe, even if the rest of the run was flawless.One of the worst parts is that it's often difficult to determine who actually did something wrong, so how can we fix the problem? We attempt this fight twice per week, at most, and we've been doing it for months.

With frustrating raids and boring everything else, I'm about ready to quit. I would have quit after 2.2 if I didn't like my FC so much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

Source to those "many"?

---

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...s_a_blog_post/

Not everyone does, but you don't have to go far to see many people agreeing with him.

Quote:

---

This is pretty much a summation of why I'm having little to zero fun in this game recently.

---

Quote:

---

I agree with everything this person said, and is exactly why I have not renewed my subscription this month

---

Quote:

---

I agree with it all except the time gate thingy :D

---

Quote:

---

I totally agree... The mechanics often feel forced and arbitrary. While they are fun in some fights, they are generally abused as a system.

---

Quote:

---

That was a wonderful post, thank you for translating it. I agree with most of what OP mentions.

---

Quote:

---

This blog post sums up, with far more logic and detail, why I stopped playing FFXIV.

---

Heh, a good post on these forums. Thanks for taking the time to translate it.

I mostly agree with this guy's point of view and I think the points he raises are a good portion of what doesn't work with this game at the moment, and for the forseeable future (at least until the first expansion drops I guess).

I hear a lot of people saying how this is wrong and the current encounters (of which many are amazing) are the way to go and it's this way or the highway. Although I played it back in the day, I'm not a FF11 apologist (heck I hate the nostalgia goggles a portion of the player base has over this game) but if there's something this game did well, it was the absolute variety in content and encounters you could low-man or tackle in a multitude of ways, making it quite friendly to build a healthy community. I don't believe it was intended as this game was unbalanced as hell and the devs more often than not had no idea of what they were doing, but it somehow worked and I got to play with everyone I knew from my LS, regardless of skill or time commitment to the game. This game could certainly benefit of such a variety without throwing away the current "hard", mechanic-driven content which has its place too.

FF14 right now is "Statics: The Game". There's no denying that. Either you have, and can maintain (which is becoming more and more of a headache with people's interest waning with all the frustration) a static, or you're royally screwed and have nothing of interest to do, except maybe carrying less skilled or more casual players through older content. Forget playing with everyone in your LS/FC on anything that matters (you can still party for meaningless tome dungeons or the occasional meaningless Peisteskin map you could duo anyway, yay I guess).
The combination of lockouts, gating, learning (aka time) requirements we have right now makes for a content structure and hierarchy in which less and less players are willing to partake. I also believe it's one of the causes of that really nasty, impatient and unforgiving mentality a lot of people have in this game and it cascades down to all content.

As for the "mechanics-driven content", I don't think he's wrong either. I'd qualify my playstyle as fairly hardcore (and my time commitment pretty low) and I don't have a lot of problems learning and executing mechanics but I can't disagree with this part:

Quote:

---

The current "mechanics-driven battle system" is considerd bland by the hardcore gamers (the biggest problem here, I think), frustrating by the mainstream gamers, and actually prevents the casual crowd from playing altogether.

---

At the moment, almost every single endgame fight in this game feels like a glorified Heigan Dance, which gets stale fast, especially when less skilled/commited players have a hard time learning and the content isn't easy enough that you can just shrug it off and fully carry multiple people.
These past days and because there isn't much to do, I've started to take more casual people from my LS through Ex Primals and T5 to get them back in the race (and before they quit the game out of spite and because they have nothing meaningful to look forward to, being roadblocked by a couple of fights).
From the cries of rage I was hearing through mumble during Titan Ex, I can tell you the mechanics in this fight (among others but especially this one) are extremely frustrating and painful to "mainstream" players, as easy as they feel to me. We had 3 first-timers and we had to carry one of them, who died maybe 8 times during the winning attempt. He's by no means a bad player, he's even decent, he just has a lot of trouble dealing with the kind of mechanics stacked plumes or landslide are (and an unhealthy dose of lag, too).

I don't have a solution but this game isn't in a good place to last long if the content structure stays the same throughout the first expansion. Hardcores are getting tired of playing the game of statics revolving doors. Mainstream players are in a place where they have to deal with a really unfriendly community that can't really achieve anything meaningful using Party Finder, so why bother. Casual players can't even attempt content. Free Companies are useless, glorified statics.
Variety is important, and over-reliance on a single or a handful of unforgiving mechanics for "difficulty" in every fight as a main game design pattern won't get FF14 far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tirocupidus

The latest frustration for us is Rafflesia, but more specifically Thorny Vines. One vine connecting two people is usually simple enough for people to handle, but occasionally people run the same direction, I suspect because latency issues cause each person to think they're in front of the other, so they keep running, expecting the other to reverse course.

---

BOTH players must run away from each other. If they are expecting the other person to correct for them then you will run into this problem. It shouldn't be "so they keep running, expecting the other to reverse course." Fix that problem and you'll be fine. If you are tethered to another player move away from them. If you are tethered to two players move away from both. This needs to be done in the most direct path possible. The only time where this doesn't work is if one player is already against the wall. In those cases it is 100% on the other player to cover the rest of the distance.

For your example it isn't the game making you powerless. It's your players aren't doing the right thing so they are getting everyone killed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...s_a_blog_post/

Not everyone does, but you don't have to go far to see many people agreeing with him.

---

I'm sure there's many that disagree as well. :) Just saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I'm sure there's many that disagree as well. :) Just saying.

---

Yeah of course, many agree and many disagree. My original point was that someone said it was just one man's opinion and that is why SE should ignore them.

The major problem with this is his assumption about Coil in the first place. Primals, I mean Extreme Primals especially, are made for just a more challenging aspect. While I agree, of his "idea" of more freedom, I have to disagree overall. Honestly, Coil is a just a raid content, it is made to be difficult, and that you can only tackle it with 8 players. That is the WHOLE base around it, it wasn't made to just be difficult, it's made so it requires synergy with your party members to progress. It's not made so you can just hop on and beat it. Sure, we could use different type of content, but we have that! There will be Chocobo Raising, CT, etc. Sure things like Treasure Maps, and Daily Hunts probly could use some flavor to their idea, but there is a lot other content for the other type of players. Believe it or not, however, most people I know only care about the loot.

This is coming from people I raid the Second Coil with, it quite honestly saddens me this is the case, they just want the loot. To me is more about progress and how much better I can adapt to situations.

While some ideas are very welcoming, it's not a very thought-out post, from the Dev perspective. I do however, agree with the time spent practicing is kinda dumb, I always felt as there was some mechanic that we could me missing in fights. We have to learn a fight each time, but you know? I enjoy that now, it's basically knowledge trading between players to finally down the beast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

BOTH players must run away from each other. . .

---

I'm well aware of how the mechanic works, you didn't understand what I said. Both players are running, but each sees themselves at a different point than the other sees them due to latency. This leads to one person thinking they're running the correct direction, with the other person following them. However, the other person sees that they are the one running the correct direction. Other players may see them running very close to each other. Each person thinks the other should change direction, and they're both right according to what they see. Usually this gets fixed soon enough by one of them changing, but sometimes they both change the same way or neither change, thinking the other will. Multiple vines compounds the problem. Most often we're fine, but like I said, a single bad break can bring the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I'm sure there's many that disagree as well. :) Just saying.

---

He's just making a point that many people do agree with the blogger's viewpoints. One can assure themselves that the vocal majority agrees with his sentiments as well.