Cash shops: Whats wrong with you?

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Originally Posted by JemC

I agree with the OP. This is dangerous ground. You get enough people to demand a Cash Shop there will be a Cash Shop. It is cause for concern.

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But a cash shop does not have to be negative. This is as narrow minded as claiming a multiplayer game can't sell, because you'd have to play with idiots and nobody wants that.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

But a cash shop does not have to be negative. This is as narrow minded as claiming a multiplayer game can't sell, because you'd have to play with idiots and nobody wants that.

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Or that nobody enjoys adventure games anymore

I'm just trying to figure out why people are so against a Cash Shop. I mean, it's not like all the SE execs are gonna go out and use the money to buy private jets or anything. The money's likely going to funnel into server maintenance and optimization so that it eliminates issues. And it's not like it would have any items in it that would give a player an advantage over another other than one player has an item that another player doesn't have, that already exists with the Pre-Order content, CE content, LR Event content, Bomb/Cactaur Earrings, Ahriman/Mandragora Choker, 1.0 Content, or the Wind-Up pets that came with the OSTs.

I mean hell, here's a good slogan for an FFXIV cash shop: Buy a Fantasia, kill a 90k/2001.

1. I don't think FFXIV is going F2P anytime soon.
2. Cash shop items like Fantasia potions and extra retainers being sold for real money.
3. Have people pay for subscriptions AND cash shop items.
4. No ???? - profit!

In all seriousness, I boycott the whole cash shop thing. I support this game and the subscription model because I loathe cash shops and F2P financing models. I strongly dislike the idea of them having the offers from #2 up there and possibly even more. When people asked for Fantasia potions or extra retainers, what exactly went and stopped them from making these things obtainable via in-game means? Like quests, or spending abhorrent amounts of gil, or whatnot? Cash shops in a subscription-based game just come across as dirty money grabs to some people.

If this is unlogical to you, then I don't know what to say.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

In all seriousness, I boycott the whole cash shop thing. I support this game and the subscription model because I loathe cash shops and F2P financing models. I strongly dislike the idea of them having the offers from #2 up there and possibly even more. When people asked for Fantasia potions or extra retainers, what exactly went and stopped them from making these things obtainable via in-game means? Like quests, or spending abhorrent amounts of gil, or whatnot? Cash shops in a subscription-based game just come across as dirty money grabs to some people.

If this is unlogical to you, then I don't know what to say.

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While no, it isn't quite logical (I mean you could argue that it is because you already pay a sub.), it is a very strong opinion that others share.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

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Posts like this make me wonder if anyone else watched Yoshi's MMO seminar video when it went up on the web, about how Subscription and Cash Shop models can coexist when done right, or if I'm just taking crazy pills.

I saw those Fantasia threads. People were asking for them to be put up for sale for RL money. I can't say the same about retainers because I didn't see that many threads about them. But I do know people were and are more than happy to spend money on them.

I just want to know the real reason folks are upset at the very mention of a cash shop in a P2P game, especially if the extra money were to go into server stability and optimization, and the items didn't affect gameplay.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

I just want to know the real reason folks are upset at the very mention of a cash shop in a P2P game, especially if the extra money were to go into server stability and optimization, and the items didn't affect gameplay.

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Originally Posted by JatohCynn

In short, people think it will ruin the game or betray it's spirit.

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From the other thread, this seems to be the most truthful answer.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Not gonna lie, but that sounds kinda mean-spirited and closed-minded. "If you want this feature in this game that I don't like, go play this other game that has that feature and stop bothering us with it." is all I'm hearing. Maybe you could explain it to me better in a reply if I'm not getting the message there, but I just don't see any legitimate downside to a non-P2W cash shop, especially when there are those of us who want to contribute to the game's success more than we already are.

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Yeah like I said that was crude and kind of a low blow and I apologize if it offended anyone.

You are already indirectly contributing to the game's success by subbing every month aren't you? If you want to do more, you can make a personal donation I'm sure SE wouldn't reject that:D The biggest problem with the cash shop is that many players are uncomfortable with the idea of one and it can push many players over the edge and do more harm than good and I'm sure we would not like to see it come to that. Let me give you another example, Wow's blizzard store. Initially, they only had QOL things like name changes and server transfer but not long after they added vanity things like pets and mounts and unsurprisingly these mounts were much better looking than the ones that came in the game. What this did was segregate those that could afford/wanted the mount and those that could not/did not want to. It also led to a loss of confidence in the company as players wondered if in subsequent patches, the nicest items would only come from the cash shop.

I'm not making this up as the evidence is all in the Wow forums around the year 2010-2011. Many players were pissed at that time but thought that was the furthest that blizzard would go but lo and behold, they now have added a level 90 boost in their cash shop. Would you consider that P2W? I would say so. Objectively a cash shop might not be such a bad thing, but player's experiences with other f2p games might cause a stigma which would casue them to leave should a cash shop ever materialize in this game. I would very likely leave if a cash shop was ever implemented.

Can't wait for this thread to get deleted so you guys can make more, get banned, and be done with it already.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Bunch of stuff.

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Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

To HakuroDK, a 90k error means that the connection has been lost on either end, which often is more related to your own side then the game, though I won't say it's not their fault. But instead of just blaming it on them, try to find the cause on your side. Some ISP's block services like FFXIV. It can vary from game to game before you claim it's never been an issue before. There may be a fault in your connection somewhere, I actually had this problem recently where my modem was overheating and would just disconnect me. And so on and so on.

tl;dr - 90k's aren't ALWAYS SE's fault, try to trace the problem on your end and see if you come up with a solution.

On-Topic: Why do I not want a cash shop? Because Yoshi-p literally promised (not that his word means much to me at this point) this game would fail before it went f2p with a cash shop. So I guess he is going to twist it so that it's p2p with a cash shop instead? Seems like bull to me. I don't mind minor services like the Fantasia, Server Transfers, maybe even 'Namingway Cards' because that gives you no advantage (other then escaping your bad reputation), the retainer thing is a bit irksome but they had that plan back in 1.0 too so I saw it coming. If it goes much more than that then the game isn't worth subbing anymore, just my humble opinion. I won't pay a monthly fee for a game where I need to buy Gems to upgrade my weapons (common in f2p w/ cash shop games) as well, that's just TAKE MY MONEY SE mode. And they would no longer deserve it.

A cash shop will always affect someone, and this person will be upset if paying is their only option. (It is like blackmail. And the first company that manages to make blackmail popular, will strike it big.)

This is why I repeatedly state that only existing free items can be sold in a cash shop. Your option should always be to spend an evening or a day or a week to grind the item, or buy it in the shop.

Personally I'd love if you could buy key items that read "If you defeat Ifrit, you can trade this in for an ifrit weapon". So you can cut down on grinding, but still have to beat content. I.e. you can't buy yourself past content, but you can bribe lady luck to give you exactly what you wanted.

I guess this would fall under the category of Pay2Luck?

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

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Crafters not being able to make every vanity item would be a small issue if they had access to recipes that were more comparable to raid level (doesn't have to be equal) gear. Currently this is one of the biggest issue for crafters, another being the ease of acquisition of equivalent non-crafted gear for players.

RPers wanting in-game access to vanity is a very valid point though, thanks for bringing that up.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

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You are making a LOOOT of inaccuracies and assumptions here, broski.

First, "pot, meet kettle" is an expression referring to hypocrisy. Being okay with something and not caring about something are almost literally the same thing, which is the very antithesis of being a hypocrite.

Second, it's not hypocritical of me to say that I don't think a cash shop is gamebreaking because you assume that I'm a raider and I don't care about roleplayers or crafters, because it's a wildly inaccurate and downright false assumption. Roleplaying is actually my preferred style of gameplay. If you want, I can actually link you to my Hydaelyn RP Community profile (which, in fairness, has not been updated in a while). I even belong to the Order of the Sword and Rose FC, which is a well-known RP FC.

Third, gear that amplifies stats would affect crafters and gatherers just as much as it would affect raiders. They all rely on stats.

Fourth, Roleplayers--at least decent people who are roleplayers--don't criticize or judge others OOC for how they dress, and especially when it would come to various articles of Cash Shop clothing, all it would do is give some variety, if anything, to the appearance of a character and would have absolutely no advantage whatsoever to that person's personality, backstory, RP style, character interactions, or anything else. In fact, saying that roleplayers wearing cash shop items are somehow better than those that don't wear cash shop items just seems silly to me.

Never make assumptions, especially when trying to say how bad something you don't like is. All it ends up doing is make you look like a dick, and no one wants to see that in public.

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

Because paying extra in an mmo where you already pay a sub price is just a bundle of fun isnt it? you do realize they could just add all the item people are asking to be in the cash shop in game right?
Not that it matters much because those people are a vocal minority in a vocal minority so i doubt we will ever see a cash shop and if we do im moving to archeage and black desert

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There's other things, I'm sure for any of us, that are already in game and aren't all that fun. That aside, it's still a business. I don't mean to scare you too much but we currently have, in game, some things that the vocal minority within the vocal minority has been loud about :X My personal feel, call it just a hunch, is that there's no realistic need for an item shop. The game seems do be doing fairly well with numbers, we haven't had an official (paid for) expansion yet and they do seem to "give us what we want" via the standard P2P model.

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

There's other things, I'm sure for any of us, that are already in game and aren't all that fun. That aside, it's still a business. I don't mean to scare you too much but we currently have, in game, some things that the vocal minority within the vocal minority has been loud about :X My personal feel, call it just a hunch, is that there's no realistic need for an item shop. The game seems do be doing fairly well with numbers, we haven't had an official (paid for) expansion yet and they do seem to "give us what we want" via the standard P2P model.

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Just as an FYI for those who oppose the idea of a Cash Shop, this is how you argue your point. This point is actually valid and makes sense.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

I'm just trying to figure out why people are so against a Cash Shop...................... -snip-.

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Because the content will appear in the cash shop not in the game as an event or reward. You will buy what you want instead of work for it in game. It does not matter if SE uses the money well. It does not matter if the cash shop item is pay to win or not. Take Fantasia. It could have been an event item or quest but now...

I have already paid box and I continue to pay sub faithfully. If I wanted to be nickel and dimed to death I would go back to a f2p.

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Originally Posted by JemC

Because the content will appear in the cash shop not in the game as an event or reward. You will buy what you want instead of work for it in game. It does not matter if SE uses the money well. It does not matter if the cash shop item is pay to win or not. Take Fantasia. It could have been an event item or quest but now...

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But that's not an argument I can understand, because you have items out there like the CE items, the pre-order items, the OST items, the Veteran Rewards, and you can't earn any of those items in the game normally through work. You have to pay money for those items. How is that different from what a Cash Shop would do?

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

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Pot kettle was in regards to your post saying someone was close-minded. And as for you being an RPer, I really only know what your posts said. And in those, yes it seemed to be hypocritical of you. At least does to me, maybe I just interpret your post in a way you didn't mean..

And your other posts where like this quote:

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Like I said, as long as it's flooded with stuff that doesn't increase stats or unlock dungeons, quests, and other related content

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It looks like you are OK with it as long as it's not related to combat.

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In fact, saying that roleplayers wearing cash shop items are somehow better than those that don't wear cash shop items just seems silly to me.

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Not better, but they lock a style behind a paywall. Meaning you have to pay cash to RP it.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Pot kettle was in regards to your post saying someone was close-minded.

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I'll explain myself.

The person I called closed-minded outright refused to hear anything on the subject of a cash shop, immediately calling it bad, and told someone that, if they like a cash shop so much, they can go somewhere else.

The textbook definition of being closed-minded is: obstinately resistant to argument or to unfamiliar or unwelcome ideas. Source: Merriam-Webster


Which, on the subject of the definition of closed-mindedness, it is often used out of context of its actual meaning to refer to anything that disagrees with anyone else regardless of how well they listen to the opposing viewpoint, much like the word irony is often used to define a coincidence rather than its actual definition which refers to something happening contrary to or despite certain conditions dictating otherwise.

Not once was I ever closed-minded about anything. All I have ever stressed since the start is that I lack the understanding as to why a Cash Shop is such a bad thing, and only one person during this whole argument has ever given me a valid argument against cash shops. I even liked his post, quoted it, and said "This is how you argue your point." A closed-minded person would NEVER acknowledge someone who disagrees with them as having a valid point.

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It looks like you are OK with it as long as it's not related to combat.

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If you'll notice, while I said dungeons (which are, indeed, related to combat), I also mentioned quests and other related content, which could be pretty much everything from combat to crafting to gathering to even dancing, as a few quest chains in 2.2 have done. I don't think content that tells a story should be locked to anyone. I only made the distinction to dungeons because, if I were to say "I don't want content that increases stats or unlocks content", people would automatically assume, for some reason, that I thought that buying any cash shop item would "unlock" it as "content", and I wanted to avoid that at whatever cost, but apparently, I still got misunderstood. Again.

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Not better, but they lock a style behind a paywall. Meaning you have to pay cash to RP it.

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Now I'm normally one who gets obsessed with vanity-related stuff, but with this... is how someone looks such a barrier to RP? Because other than certain FCs who have a dress code, I don't really get that. And if you're thinking about things like approachability, that's not it either. I'm on Balmung, an RP server. Every week or so, I wander into the Quicksand in Ul'dah and take a seat, wearing my normal vanity (seen in my sig below). Not a single time did I ever get approached by anyone ever to start an RP. Probably because I'm a Roegadyn and people tend to be more fond of approaching scantily-clad Miqo'te or any non-Roe female characters than anyone who looks even remotely interesting, but that's just my point of view.

I just don't feel like you've proven your point to me at all.

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

cash shop (a ftp thing)

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Actually, before EverQuest II went free to play (with THE WORST free to play plan on the face of the plan, thanks Sony Online Entertainment), they had a cash shop long before it went free to play. Sure, the goods offered were cosmetic (furniture for your home, vanity gear) or were services that didn't affect game play (character re-customization that went beyond barber shop, character name changes, I think server transfers).

So, just putting that out there, it never was "just a free to play" thing.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

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Correction: It was just a F2P thing. Then when a few F2P games ended up making a decent profit a few foolish greedy P2P companies thought "Hmm there's stupid people out there with far too much disposable income that will happily throw more money at these "free" games than we're charging for access to our P2P games. Maybe we can push our luck and try to get the best of both worlds :D" and then all but one of them quickly found out that IT IS NOT OK and the single company that did survive already had so many subscriptions that it could withstand the loss it had and still stay profitable.

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

Because paying extra in an mmo where you already pay a sub price is just a bundle of fun isnt it? you do realize they could just add all the item people are asking to be in the cash shop in game right?
Not that it matters much because those people are a vocal minority in a vocal minority so i doubt we will ever see a cash shop and if we do im moving to archeage and black desert

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You do know that perhaps, just perhaps, items that might make it to the cash shops just aren't part of the content development plans at all? meaning, it never was to be released "for free" and if it wasn't in the cash shop, then you simply don't get it at all.

We already have a cash shop, it is called Mog Station ;)

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

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Well that last sentence was kinda jaded, don't you think? Roetip: If you want to educate someone, sprinkling some tact in there is usually the best way to do it. Otherwise, all it ends up looking like is a bunch of angry man-children/woman-children/othergender-children (don't want to assume anything from anyone) just yelling at and insulting people for not being born with the knowledge that you possess. I might as well say "I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 1,000,000. You already know what it is, otherwise you're an idiot."

But I'll make things easy. To help you understand why I don't understand the cash shop idea, I'll take the effort to interpret what I got out of this into my own words and let you read them, then you can feel free to point out any inaccuracies I made. Everything I think you're saying is in quotation marks, my opinions on that are not.

"This game should never get a cash shop because everyone already pays to play the game."

This, to me, doesn't correlate. Especially since Yoshida went on record during a recent conference (which is available on the Lodestone whenever you wish to view it) by saying that one does not need to be exclusively Subscription-based or Cash Shop-based and should make a system that best caters to the kind of game you're making. Using this logic, a subscription model does not guarantee exclusivity and does not ensure that a Cash Shop will never happen. Therefore, just because one exists, does not mean the other can't.

"With a cash shop implemented, people will feel cheated."

I know there are a few that would. I just wonder how cheated they would feel when they look at the cash shop and there is nothing on there that they would want to buy or, if it was offered for free, that they would ever use it. I just feel people freak out at the mere mention of "Cash Shop" and don't take a minute to stop and think about the specifics of it. Like, at all. I think this is less of an issue with a Cash Shop in FFXIV than it is with everyone's severe dislike of the EA-style Cash Shop where every little thing seems to cost a buck-fifty. Which I agree is absolutely terrible, but I also acknowledge that Square-Enix is not affiliated with EA whatsoever, and the only games I have seen out of Square-Enix that have that kind of microtransaction model are mobile games which all follow that same business model regardless.

"A Cash Shop will encourage Square-Enix to exploit Cash Shop users."

I'm going to assume that, by this, you mean stuff like Cash Shop advertisements and sales on things. I agree that that might be a bit of a danger and should be averted. But since the very concept of a Cash Shop is all one big hypothetical at this point and might not ever actually happen, I think it's safe to say that we could use our voices to ensure that, in the case of a Cash Shop, that advertisements for such things would be kept to a bare minimum. Enough to let folks know that stuff exists, but not enough to be annoying. Maybe with a toggle option or something. I dunno.

"If people can't afford to or refuse to buy Cash Shop items, then I (HakuroDK) believe they're SOL."

Well... it'd be a cash shop. Not Booker's Lost and Found. I don't want to be an asshole by stating the obvious, but the point of a shop is using currency to purchase items. If you don't have the money to purchase items or you refuse to spend money to purchase items, then that's not really anyone else's problem. I mean, unless you advocate shoplifting or something, which I hope you aren't.

This is why I can't understand. Not a single point made here is all that clear and just seems to be based entirely on circumstantial conjecture.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Now I'm normally one who gets obsessed with vanity-related stuff, but with this... is how someone looks such a barrier to RP?

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Not a barrier, but it may be their goal of the game. I personally play only for the vanity. You can charge me 10 dollars per dungeon entry, and I'd just say "Well, I won't go into dungeons then. Don't care." Other people here would surely drive their fist through the screen and break their FF14 discs in pieces over such a cash and grab of dungeon players.

Forcing anyone to pay money to enjoy their part of the game, is a big no-no. It should be free to do dungeons, free to level, free to vanity, free to chat, etc. With the restriction of a subscription fee, of course.

Hence why you can only sell things you can grind. To allow people to say "Hell no to those prices, I'll go farm my own item". At the same time allowing people to say "To hell with this grind, I'm buying my item so I can move on."

Options = Everyone is a winner.

I actually told TERA how to become the next big title on the market, which did include a lot of options to cater to all their customers. But they just told me they know which customers they want, and every different customer from that was undesired and should just leave. Which they did, and TERA failed and went F2P. Today most of my suggestions have been implemented, which is pretty funny.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Not a barrier, but it may be their goal of the game. I personally play only for the vanity. You can charge me 10 dollars per dungeon entry, and I'd just say "Well, I won't go into dungeons then. Don't care." Other people here would surely drive their fist through the screen and break their FF14 discs in pieces over such a cash and grab of dungeon players.

Forcing anyone to pay money to enjoy their part of the game, is a big no-no. It should be free to do dungeons, free to level, free to vanity, free to chat, etc. With the restriction of a subscription fee, of course.

Hence why you can only sell things you can grind. To allow people to say "Hell no to those prices, I'll go farm my own item". At the same time allowing people to say "To hell with this grind, I'm buying my item so I can move on."

Options = Everyone is a winner.

I actually told TERA how to become the next big title on the market, which did include a lot of options to cater to all their customers. But they just told me they know which customers they want, and every different customer from that was undesired and should just leave. Which they did, and TERA failed and went F2P. Today most of my suggestions have been implemented, which is pretty funny.

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The issue with such train of thought is that

1. the player does not take into account what the game is and isn't, is the game a vanity dress up game? is the game a dungeon raid game? you force your way into changing a game into what it wasn't designed to be in the first place

2. the first point leads us to the second point, if the game was designed to be a dungeon raid game, vanity isn't and wouldn't be their primary focus when it comes to content. What I've seen here is that players who are against cash shops often have the misconception that whatever that is offered in the cash-shops are originally meant to be given free. This point might have some credence but chances are, it isn't, for P2P games, making cash shops the primary revenue source isn't paramount, hence there isn't a significant desire to profit heavily from a cash shop and risk negative reaction. So, whatever were to be offered in the cash shops are developed and made possible only with the intention of using the revenue source from cash shops to justify the investment.

this is a win win situation.

no content ever comes "free" all content are developed via the allocation of limited resources, and it isn't "fair" to have players who couldn't care less about significant vanity gear content to be indirectly "paying" for them, hence a cash shop to offer vanity for those who wants them and remove the burden of cost from those who doesn't

another way of implementation would be to limit certain vanity gear to purchase only for a period of time (e.g 3-6 months) and will be made available to all in the next major content patch.

people are against the name of "cash shop" not the concept of it, the fact that you get unique minions available only via the purchase of the CE and OST already proves that people have no issues with unique vanity items that are "purchase only" and not available in-game.

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

EDIT:All this thread has taught me is the reason why monster hunter frontier is japan only, the west doesn't deserve it, we just take something good and screw it up, trying to learn japanese has never been so worth it

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Projection much?

It's pretty simple.

There are people that can't afford this game.

There are people that can afford this game and not much else.

Then there are people than can afford this game plus a lot more.

By your logic, SE will only tap into the people that will only spend 13 dollars a month on their game. Having a small shop gives them a higher potential profit. They can tap into those people who have extra cash and love the game. It's pretty silly in a business to cap your profits. And most of the time, the cash shop people are a different team than the in game people. As so long as they're not taking my sub and not putting effort into upgrading the game, I'm fine with a cash shop. If it's a vehicle to get more FFXIV, who wouldn't want it? Even if the people paying for it are the more well off, the money generated would go right back into the game. Minus some overhead and profit for SE.

TLDR: Cash shops are fine if implemented properly.

This game has a subscription instead of asking for "cash shops" you should be asking for a player focused poll content that gets added per patch or major patch.

Collaboration FATE glamour focus priority
Minion priority
Barding priority
Retainer exclusive glamour gear

So on and so on.

this whole thread is dumb an so is the other ones about the same topic. nowhere at anytime has SE ever even hinted at putting a full item cash shop into this game EVER. Buying an item to change your race is not P2W. the reason they charge money for it, is cuz if they gave it out for free for as much as anyone wanted, everyone would abuse it an change races several times a day or as much as they were allowed to. Buying more retainers for storage space/lottery chances at sellable items is not P2W. News Flash they charged extra money for mules in XI too. this games subs are not even close to dwindling enough to go F2P, many servers are still locked down from character creation everyday. Finally if they wanted to test a cash shop out on a game, XI's subs are way lower than ours I'm sure they would think to try it there first, or even Dragon Quest X... o wait all 3 SE MMO's still follow subscription based plans you say? hmmmm i wonder what payment model they prefer...

Cash Shop? Why are you dudes panicking for no reason? Yoshi-P has already stated that he won't add anything game breaking to the game that would be obtained via "Cash Shop." It's all going to be vanity stuff or things like Fantasia:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi-P

On special paid items

I would consider in terms of items, optional things that would change the aesthetics like your skin color or your race but not your stats. If it’s like the Ring of Yoshida, it’s cool but it can cross the line and help you clear end game content and help you beat certain monsters. That has the risk of people calling the game pay-to-win. That’s not something I want to do.

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http://www.gamerevolution.com/featur...never-paytowin

I swear you guys complain about the stupidest things ever without doing any basic Google-legwork to check interviews or SE backchannels on what Yoshi-P feels on the matter. Like, some people are legit typing out 3000 word essays in this thread depicting how they are for or against this subject matter. Stop wasting your time, lol.

As long as the cash shop stays free of items that increase experience, currency (gil, tomestones, pvp points) acquisition, I think I'd be fine with it.

Do you know how many adult men that want to dress up their female miqote in all sorts of frilly dresses Square Enix stands to make money off of? :o

Here is how I feel about the cash shop, or selling vanity items in a p2p game.

I have been playing MMOS for 11 years now. Starting with the original Everquest. In that game I think I paid 12.99 a month plus an expansion every 4-6 months. In the short time I played that, THREE expansions came out. And yes I bought those three along with the four that were out before I even began.

Since then I moved onto another MMO that charged 14.99 a month, and so on and so forth. So for the last 10 years I've paid 15 a month for an account. Most P2p MMOS since then have been 15 dollars a month. Not bad for the last 10 years, considering costs have risen in that time.

So, how I feel, if they keep some vanity items to help keep my sub low in comparison to what they could charge. I'm all for it. I can choose if I want those vanity items or not.

In short, compared to my MMO history. Even with a vanity cash shop, I've paid less overall then I did when I first started MMOS.

This thread is silly.

You state in OP that the game is a massive success, doing better than expected....

Why WOULDN'T a company want a CS* in them circumstances? Companies want money. Like. It's kinda pretty good for a company to make monies.

*As previous people have said, vanity / non-game breaking CS only.

In the end, what they sell will not matter much, it is how much they charge.

MICRO-transactions is a word everyone likes using, but few understand we are talking single dollar costs. Buy ingame vanity for 1 dollar? No problem at all, here take my money.

Want 25 dollars for it? Too bad, I'll just cancel my subcription and see how you like losing money.

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Originally Posted by Len

Do you know how many adult men that want to dress up their female miqote in all sorts of frilly dresses Square Enix stands to make money off of? :o

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Do you know how wrong it is to go from equally catering to 2 groups for the same price (people who just want to min/max their character, and people who enjoy vanity items) to suddenly exploiting 1 of those groups for extra money? If SE wasn't already adding so many vanity items to the game for the current subscription price it would be a different story but as it is all adding a vanity cash shop would do is make any vanity lover that values their money feel exploited.

They'll do the same thing as WoW. Add a cash shop with exclusives that won't offer anything but vanity. They won't have a pay to win, but a pay to look like the unique snowflake you want to be, and that's fine with me. If you want to spend your money to look different in game, or ride a different mount, or get a cool little pet then go for it, the only people who would be mad about that are the have nots.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

the only people who would be mad about that are the have nots.

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Or people that refuse to support a game that double dips its customers, or angry vanity lovers because currently the game caters to both vanity lovers and min/maxers but in the case of a cash shop suddenly vanity lovers would be a singled out group exploited for extra money while min/maxers won't be missing anything from the cash shop, or people that see a cash shop as a sign of an impending switch to F2P. All of these groups would very likely quit and boycott the game.

I don't mind them charging extra to change character appearance because that's a standard thing in most other MMOs, but I won't support this game if they put things on the Mogstation that can't otherwise be obtained with my normal subscription. People asking for costumes and pets and stuff in the Mogstation, EVERYONE should have access to those, not those willing to spend extra. With all the whining from people who weren't able/didn't want to play this game while the Lightning events were going on, almost wouldn't be surprised with enough pushing that SE puts the costumes up there.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Or people that refuse to support a game that double dips its customers, or angry vanity lovers because currently the game caters to both vanity lovers and min/maxers but in the case of a cash shop suddenly vanity lovers would be a singled out group exploited for extra money while min/maxers won't be missing anything from the cash shop, or people that see a cash shop as a sign of an impending switch to F2P. All of these groups would very likely quit and boycott the game.

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double dip? lol your same ol' baseless wild conjectures are still going strong I see.

move along, nothing to see here.