Acceptable Cash Shop Items: Suggestions!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

Your actually getting the game mechanics of another race, not more than what you had. So another player could have that same exact character stats with out paying more, but look different. There is nothing but aesthetics change and thus does not effect the gameplay. I do believe fantasia and this option probably needs to be limited to once ever month to keep it from getting silly personally.

Your comment seems more just trolling or you just don't get the concept of my complaint. Sorry to hear that.

---

you just said a Roe tank had more HP at a lower iLvl, so you'd get that additional HP, you'd get everything their base stats offer, not just the "mechanics" it wouldn't be just aesthetic you'd be playing a Roe, Stats and all, that just happened to look like a Mi'qote. so any Mi'qote tank that was still "just" a Mi'qote would be considered "gimp" as their HP would be lower than yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Blizzard seems to do just fine with one.

---

And Blizzard also has over 7.5 million subs. They can afford to do it without losing a lot of subs.

SE is scrapping the barrel with what subs it has left. Why do you think they are even considering a cash shop to begin with?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amberion

They take away things from the game. It would make crafters even more useless.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

Because vanity in this game is content...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaliaBrown

Right now, the main market that crafters have is people who are looking for cool vanity items. If these vanity items are offered in a cash shop, then that reduces incentive to craft, destroys the in-game market for crafted goods (no demand), and generally reduces the usefulness of crafting in general. Except for food. Those Culinarians are always in need.

---

This can be a valid argument, but it is more or less countered by offering items that are not available through crafting. Also, crafting can be made more viable by allowing crafters to make more powerful equipment [that is more equal to "raid" gear] (under certain restrictions), since that is a very real concern (I do craft myself).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

I'll also note that i'm yet to see a good argument why they SHOULD be in the game. If you're so desperate to give them more money take out a second sub, or buy another collectors edition.

---

I'm not saying that they should, but if a company decides to open a cash shop in a P2P based game it's their decision. I have no issue with it if it's done in a way that does not create a P2W game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gramul

Think about it like this: We pay a monthly fee to play this game, all features involved. Adding a vanity shop divorces some of the content that could be in game so people might shell out more for it.
You're effectively paying more for content that should be obtainable in the game you're already paying for.

---

Yes, and no. Adding a vanity shop doesn't necessarily take away from any in-game content unless the level of content being released in that category (vanity) is being reduced because of it.

What happens to that "excess" money is a big concern though; if it is going into further developing the game or even to legitimate charitable causes, I believe it to be acceptable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

you just said a Roe tank had more HP at a lower iLvl, so you'd get that additional HP, you'd get everything their base stats offer, not just the "mechanics" it wouldn't be just aesthetic you'd be playing a Roe, Stats and all, that just happened to look like a Mi'qote. so any Mi'qote tank that was still "just" a Mi'qote would be considered "gimp" as their HP would be lower than yours.

---

I see a possible problem with my suggestion breeding distain for normal Mi'qotes trying to tank (and similar situations). That is a good point. The question is if it would be any more or less than what we already have; I have noticed zero problems as is, I just don't feel optimal at my role. Personally, if I had it my way. Base stats would be separate from appearances in character creation for free. You do make a point though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

I see a possible problem with my suggestion breeding distain for normal Mi'qotes trying to tank (and similar situations). That is a good point. The question is if it would be any more or less than what we already have; have noticed zero. Personally, if I had it my way. Base stats would be separate from appearances in character creation for free. You do make a point though.

---

It isn't possible, it would. We already have people demanding iLvl 100+ for content that doesn't require it. you really think people wouldn't demand that almost negligible stat boost as well?

Min/Maxers don't care if the boost is small or large...it's a boost so it's "needed"

Basically right now the stats between races/clans are rather negligible and can be largely disregarded. but once you make them something everyone can have they'll no longer bee seen as such, it will become "Well, you can have it, so you really should get it, I mean it's only $X. Why do you want to be gimp?"

Where as your particular bugbear of Retainers offer no real tangible in game "bonuses" beyond a CHANCE to gear alt classes (I seem to get nothing but fish from my 2 retainers so paying for more fish seems silly) and a little more flexibility in inventory (if you feel you have to hoard every crafting mat, and don't manage your inventory effectively). So if you don't feel you need or want them (like me), you can give them a pass. (and only be reminded they're a "Thing" when people complain about them)

Long story short: Paying money to boost your stats (no matter how small) is the Archetypical Example of a Pay to Win sencenario.

I hope a cash shop will never exist. If it's ever required for the game to survive and flourish, then I'd say while avoiding pay to win, exp boosts are fine so long as the non-boosted character can still level up in a reasonable manner (like before the shop appeared).

Extra bags / retainers (already added to "cash shop") - similar principle. This is OK except for the fact square-enix now have FAR less pressure on them to keep the number of unique items needed by your average player (that crafts) down to a manageable level with only the standard bags / retainers. If it becomes unreasonable to play the game in a normal way as a crafter without the extra retainers, I hope square Square-Enix will address the issue properly instead of expecting purchases of extra retainers.

Vanity - this is probably an ok choice for cash shops. Players already have the basic equivalent with the collectors edition Behemoth mount, and the wind up dalamud from the soundtrack. It doesn't have a strong negative impact unless you decide to re-use item that could be otherwise obtained in the game. When LOTRO went free to play I was really disappointing to see that vanity items earned by building many reputation points with different factions were now available to any with the cash at the click of a button. This completely trod on the efforts of those players who spent the time building the reputation points. One other important consideration regarding vanity items is that square-enix already stated the resource management (which I understand as RAM limitations on PS3) limits how many unique items can be added per patch. To use these precious resources on cash shop items would, I feel, neglect the paying customer who opts out of cash shop purchases and is stuck with the same gear model over and over.

Fantasia - 100% fine. Completely non-essential and should certainly be considered an "extra" service and factored outside of the standard subscription that we all have to pay.

UI Skins - these should be purely cosmetic and give no other playing advantage to the player. Many would prefer their standard subs not to go towards development of such things, so it would be a good cash shop item.

Furniture - since there are limited furniture slots per room, there's only going to be a set amount that needs to be loaded into system memory and rendered at once, so adding any number of additional furnishings should be no problem in terms of system resource management. I'd say that makes furniture a good candidate for cash shops, again assuming they are unique items to the cash shop. We don't want crafters efforts wasted by chucking their merchandise in the cash shop.

Cash shops are inevitable - it is happening whether you like it or not and it is coming to FFXIV. Every MMORPG has or will have it, get used to it. Just accept it. All you can really do it hope that it's done properly. I think paying money for race changes, name changes, and server changes are 100% acceptable cash shop items. The next tier would be cosmetic gear, mounts, and furniture for housing. Anything beyond this is going to be very bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gramul

-Character change
-Server transfer
-Name change
That's it. We pay a monthly fee so we don't have to go through that nonsense.

---

I agree 100%,

There pay retainers is already something that I didn’t like to much, since they also add you small things to encourage to buy it, things like on purpose fill your inventory with important game items like Atmas and ventures than can easily go to the key chest or currency like seals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marowit

weren't you the guy complaining about how retainers are P2W and now you want to add a cash shop?

---

Also wonder why he open a thread like this;

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-is-Pay-2-WIN if now want to pay more? :confused:

Here's the thing, I don't care if there are glamour cash shop items that are bound to your account. I don't care at all.

However, I don't want their "limited resources" doing silly stuff on the side of the game, when there's much to improve inside the game. Quit wasting time on vanity items and work on the designs of end game gear. When end-game gear is awesome looking, fine -- do event vanity gear. Have time to do more? Great! Do cash-shop vanity gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

Extra bags / retainers (already added to "cash shop") - similar principle. This is OK except for the fact square-enix now have FAR less pressure on them to keep the number of unique items needed by your average player (that crafts) down to a manageable level with only the standard bags / retainers. If it becomes unreasonable to play the game in a normal way as a crafter without the extra retainers, I hope square Square-Enix will address the issue properly instead of encouraging purchases of extra retainers.

---

Actually, Yoshida stated that he wanted to cut down on "inventory fat" and did so in consolidating a lot of the materia from 1.0, but there are more items in the game that serve little purpose. This wouldn't be an issue if these "little purpose" items were crafted pieces necessary to create other items, but they are base materials, which causes inventory clutter. Between my wife and myself, we have around 500 inventory spaces dedicated to crafting items (which do find use) and have considered purchasing more retainers because what is left is barely enough for our other junk, I don't find this acceptable.

Quote:

---

Min/Maxers don't care if the boost is small or large...it's a boost so it's "needed"

---

Not always. Never saw them complain to SE that their tarutaru had less HP then galka in FFXI. And that was a big deal if you where a tank.

And there you couldn't change race, so you had to create a new character if you wanted the "best" stats for your job.

I don't think it's really the min/maxers as such, but more the new generations of gamers thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amberion

Not always. Never saw them complain to SE that their tarutaru had less HP then galka in FFXI. And that was a big deal if you where a tank.

And there you couldn't change race, so you had to create a new character if you wanted the "best" stats for your job.

I don't think it's really the min/maxers as such, but more the new generations of gamers thing.

---

I remember being booted from parties as a Mithra Bard (actually got tells saying I was a "noob" for picking Mithra and wanting to play bard, many times from just random people while seeking party in Jeuno, and this was before, during and after the so called "Golden Age" of CoP) because our base CHR was the lowest in the game, and our MP was nothing to write home about either.

Anything else than server change, name change, phantasia should be forbidden in a sub game! Even the paid retainers are a faux pas.

There is no such thing as acceptable cash shop items in a P2P game. You have also deluded yourself into thinking they need to "up their income". They could lower the game's monthly fee to $5-7 and still be making a profit as it is. So please quit trying to "help" them when they need no help. Adding a cash shop on top of a monthly fee would accomplish NOTHING other than cause the game to have to dumb down to F2P within 6 months to a year of them adding it. The only mmo that's ever survived double dipping its customers is WoW and that's only because of the sheer amount of subscribers it has. FFXIV with its 500k-1 million subscribers would not survive the massive exodus a double dipping cash shop would inevitably cause. Doesn't matter whether it's vanity crap or P2W. Also FFS why are you even asking for a vanity cash shop? They're adding plenty of vanity items for FREE with every freaking update to the game. You're not going to magically get more vanity items all of a sudden by adding a cash shop. All you'd get is less free vanity items and then they'd suddenly start charging for vanity items they were already planning to give us for free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Blizzard seems to do just fine with one.

---

Blizzard also has about 8 million+ subscribers and have already paid off all development costs of their game. While FFXIV has about 500k-1 mill+ subscribers (registered users don't = current subscribers. it's PR speak) FFXIV wouldn't stand a chance to survive the loss of players a double dipping cash shop would cause. You also need to notice how WoW is the only P2P mmo that's survived with a cash shop while every single other mmo that's attempted to have one has either shut down or gone F2P due to the loss of subscriptions it causes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

I remember being booted from parties as a Mithra Bard (actually got tells saying I was a "noob" for picking Mithra and wanting to play bard and this was before, during and after the so called "Golden Age" of CoP) because our base CHR was the lowest in the game, and our MP was noting to write home about either.

---

I never had that problem, and I leveled up BLM as an Elvaan. Might have been a server thing? Or someone that read that Brady guide, WAR/WHM ftw. :)

No idea why anyone would kick a BRD unless they where crappy at their job, or under-geared.

It would be okay to have services like fantasia, name change and server transfer. Glamour items on shop would just make everything worse, even if it's not P2W. People expect to get everything the game offers you, with your hard effort of farming, when you're paying for a subscription, and I agree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amberion

I never had that problem, and I leveled up BLM as an Elvaan. Might have been a server thing? Or someone that read that Brady guide, WAR/WHM ftw. :)

No idea why anyone would kick a BRD unless they where crappy at their job, or under-geared.

---

I was on several servers. Got booted several times as aTaru tank cause my HP was "to low" even though at the level range I was in I had good gear, Got booted as a BRD several time because of base CHR (One party said I was unable to land Lullaby, even though I had everytime I cast it) and MP (the MP time was because I was quite literally 1 MP shy of Raise 2 and the only item that would have fixed that was 10mil gil, it would have literally given me that 1 MP nothing more nothing less) Was in a party that booted a BiS Galka WHM because their buddy who was lesser geared came on but was a Taru Whm and that was the reason they gave the party "But guys, He's a TARU, they have more MP!". And again I state, all of this happened on different servers. FFXI (especially with gear swapping) was tailor made for Min/Maxers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amberion

Not always. Never saw them complain to SE that their tarutaru had less HP then galka in FFXI. And that was a big deal if you where a tank.

---

Oh, it happened, all right. Not this specific case (I'd say Tarutaru players took some kind of perverse pride in their low HP, actually) but Galka MP? THAT was an issue that had people howling. Especially at low levels; parties desperate for a WHM in Valkurm Dunes woudl actually turn away a Galka WHM - and with pretty good reason since they could only cast Cure II twice before running out of mp. Even at high levels, though, Galka players on mage jobs got a lot of flak.

SE recently addressed the issue by rebalancing HP and MP, increasing all races' MP (except Tarutaru) and increasing all races' HP (except Galka). Boooooring!

i only have one question. where is this cash shop idea even coming from? the fact that you can pay for retainers? or Fanatasia? seems pretty far fetched to jump up and down screaming "cash shop!" the retainers rides close, but the fact tahat you have to lvl them up and gear them out makes anything "broken" nonexistent. you pretty much just end up with more space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Oh, it happened, all right. Not this specific case (I'd say Tarutaru players took some kind of perverse pride in their low HP, actually) but Galka MP? THAT was an issue that had people howling. Especially at low levels; parties desperate for a WHM in Valkurm Dunes woudl actually turn away a Galka WHM - and with pretty good reason since they could only cast Cure II twice before running out of mp. Even at high levels, though, Galka players on mage jobs got a lot of flak.

SE recently addressed the issue by rebalancing HP and MP, increasing all races' MP (except Tarutaru) and increasing all races' HP (except Galka). Boooooring!

---

I know that they where fairly gimp in early levels, as was my elvaan. But once you got to the jungle, it really sort of started evened out. RSE might have been ugly enough so you wanted a paperbag on your head so no one knew who you where, but they did give a crap load of MP to elvaan/galka.

And at end game, HP where more important then MP. And even then people took tarutaru with them... Probably because it looked fun to have big mobs hitting something that small. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

I remember being booted from parties as a Mithra Bard (actually got tells saying I was a "noob" for picking Mithra and wanting to play bard, many times from just random people while seeking party in Jeuno, and this was before, during and after the so called "Golden Age" of CoP) because our base CHR was the lowest in the game, and our MP was nothing to write home about either.

---

Had the same issue as an Elvaan THF.

The moment this game starts selling the vanity stuff, barding, minions or more.
It's going to go downhill, fast. I ain't paying jack that I don't need to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Any item that is pure vanity and gives you no edge in the game whatsoever is acceptable in any game. Can't see why anyone would think otherwise.

So, pretty outfits that have no stats, mounts with no speed boosts, fantasias, name changes...hats... Stuff.

---

Why would anyone want to pay for something when we're already getting it for free.
Stop giving them idea's people. >>

Any item that is pure vanity and gives you no edge in the game whatsoever is acceptable in any game. Can't see why anyone would think otherwise.

So, pretty outfits that have no stats, mounts with no speed boosts, fantasias, name changes...hats... Stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

When LOTRO went free to play I was really disappointing to see that vanity items earned by building many reputation points with different factions were now available to any with the cash at the click of a button. This completely trod on the efforts of those players who spent the time building the reputation points.

---

I wasn't nearly as upset at those items as I was by all the unique items that couldn't be obtained any other way besides buying them from the cash shop. At least we still had the option of earning these ones in-game by building up reputation. (The worst offense with LOTRO was taking festival horses that were previously earnable in-game and actually taking them out of the game to become Store exclusives.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

Furniture - since there are limited furniture slots per room, there's only going to be a set amount that needs to be loaded into system memory and rendered at once, so adding any number of additional furnishings should be no problem in terms of system resource management. I'd say that makes furniture a good candidate for cash shops, again assuming they are unique items to the cash shop. We don't want crafters efforts wasted by chucking their merchandise in the cash shop.

---

As you pointed out at the beginning of that paragraph, there are only a certain number of furniture slots available. So every furniture item bought from a cash shop is a furniture item that is not being crafted, regardless of whether it's the same type of item or a different one. Making the cash shop items unique would if anything just make it even worse for crafters than selling craftable items from the cash shop would. There is no way for a crafter to compete with something they're not allowed to make.

The same goes for cosmetics. If cosmetic outfits are sold in the shop, that removes the demand for getting good-looking crafted gear. And if the cash shop cosmetics are unique, then even a player who is 50 in all crafts and can make anything that can be made is still locked out of making their cosmetic gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Any item that is pure vanity and gives you no edge in the game whatsoever is acceptable in any game. Can't see why anyone would think otherwise.

---

All vanity items give you an edge in the game. They give you an edge on looking good, a trait that's at least as important as combat stats (and through most content more important).

And none of them belong in a cash shop if we're already paying a subscription. Cash shops are for F2P games, not subscription ones.

I think it is important to realize that meeting a goal = winning, and we all have different goals so it is impossible to say "Do this, and it will not be P2W". Maybe not for you, but it will be for someone else.

In my opinion cash shops should only allow you to trade real life money to catch up to friends who are playing. So among other things you should be able to buy are:

- Levels/Experience.
- Old Endgame gear. (If BiS is ilvl 110, then let people buy ilvl80-90 or so)

Notice that you still have to beat content to unlock new content. You just have it easier to beat them with higher level items.

I am aware stupid people would call this exact thing P2W because stupid people will say you can't do Garuda Hard mode without first buying a full ilvl90 set. But this is just the weird elitists who want to be carried instead of do things the difficult way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Any item that is pure vanity and gives you no edge in the game whatsoever is acceptable in any game. Can't see why anyone would think otherwise.

So, pretty outfits that have no stats, mounts with no speed boosts, fantasias, name changes...hats... Stuff.

---

It's because we're already getting vanity items with every freaking update FOR FREE. There is absolutely zero need for vanity items to be added to a cash shop when we're already getting them for free. Suddenly adding a cash shop isn't going to give us more vanity items than we're already getting. All they'll do is make the same vanity items they were already planning on giving us for free and instead of giving it as in-game content for free they'll slap a price tag on it. That's how this crap works. You have been deluded into thinking otherwise by F2P mmos and WoW that is the only mmo that will ever survive double dipping its customers. You would have some sort of argument if we weren't already getting vanity items for free but since we are this entire thread is pointless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ikeda

It's because we're already getting vanity items with every freaking update FOR FREE. There is absolutely zero need for vanity items to be added to a cash shop when we're already getting them for free. Suddenly adding a cash shop isn't going to give us more vanity items than we're already getting. All they'll do is make the same vanity items they were already planning giving us for free and instead of giving it as in-game content for free they'll slap a price tag on it. That's how this crap works. You have been deluded into thinking otherwise by F2P mmos and WoW that is the only mmo that will ever survive double dipping its customers. You would have some sort of argument if we weren't already getting vanity items for free but since we are this entire thread is pointless.

---

Really? We have like.. Dress, Sailor, Taffeta and Lightsteel so far.

If I was a game designer, I'd sure as heck be motivated do design faster if it meant real money. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niwashi

All vanity items give you an edge in the game. They give you an edge on looking good, a trait that's at least as important as combat stats (and through most content more important).

And none of them belong in a cash shop if we're already paying a subscription. Cash shops are for F2P games, not subscription ones.

---

Vanity edge. Can't say I have ever ran into that...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunavi

Idk, even Fantasia is really P2W... I see people buying 100's of them to be able to switch race when they switch class.

---

This hurts my brain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ikeda

It's because we're already getting vanity items with every freaking update FOR FREE. There is absolutely zero need for vanity items to be added to a cash shop when we're already getting them for free.

---

Though I agree with what you mean, I have a quibble about your word choice in describing it. I'd change "we're already getting them for free" to "we're already getting them in exchange for the subscription money we're paying".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ikeda

Suddenly adding a cash shop isn't going to give us more vanity items than we're already getting. All they'll do is make the same vanity items they were already planning giving us for free and instead of giving it as in-game content for free they'll slap a price tag on it. That's how this crap works.

---

When LOTRO went F2P (and ever since then), we heard this a lot. People keep trying to defend the cash shop based on the fact that we can get a lot of things there that we didn't have before. They ignore the fact that before the cash shop was added, features were being added on a regular basis and everyone had access to them. After the cash shop was added, every new feature and nearly every new item has a separate price tag attached, even for those still paying a subscription. We stopped getting anything new added to the base game itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Any item that is pure vanity and gives you no edge in the game whatsoever is acceptable in any game. Can't see why anyone would think otherwise.

So, pretty outfits that have no stats, mounts with no speed boosts, fantasias, name changes...hats... Stuff.

---

While this is true, I'd rather see content that was fun to do to obtain these items,
i.e. notorious monsters dropping unique glamors

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Really? We have like.. Dress, Sailor, Taffeta and Lightsteel so far.

If I was a game designer, I'd sure as heck be motivated do design faster if it meant real money. :D

---

Everything from CT, upcoming gear from new CT, darklight has essentially been downgraded to vanity, the new i90 crafted gear, odin and behemoth gear, artisan spectacles, paragon gown and the crowns you get from achievements, all seasonal event gear, lightning event gear, the gear that drops from the new hard mode dungeons, and all PvP gear. With the addition of glamour, every outfit in the game can technically be considered vanity. Also they're already motivated enough to design vanity gear because they do it to retain subscriptions. I honestly don't know why I'm even having to convince you of something this obvious. The fact of the matter is adding a cash shop to a P2P mmo is considered a horrible business practice called double dipping the consumer. Every single mmo other than WoW that has attempted that practice has lost so many subscriptions they've been forced to either dumb down to F2P or shut down entirely. WoW has only survived doing it due to the sheer amount of subscribers it has. FFXIV with its miniscule 500k-1 mill+ subscribers does not stand a chance of surviving the massive loss of subscriptions a double dipping cash shop would cause. You and every other cash shop enthusiast here are essentially begging SE to kill off their own game. Either that or you secretly want the game to go F2P so you don't have to pay a subscription anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niwashi

Though I agree with what you mean, I have a quibble about your word choice in describing it. I'd change "we're already getting them for free" to "we're already getting them in exchange for the subscription money we're paying".

---

Oh come on you know what I mean >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Logo

This hurts my brain.

---

It is P2W though. If you can pay to increase your stats it is clearly P2W, moreso than buying retainers which alot of people complain about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheCurls

If you think $10 for every class change is worth the +/- 5 points in any given stat that various subraces give....

On topic, there is nothing acceptable. SE has already caved to the demands of fools eager to part with their money. Stop clamoring to spend more money than your subscription. If you want something, ask to have it implemented without begging to pay extra money for it.

---

Here it is not about whenever or not it is worth the money, here it is about that it is a clear p2w system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunavi

It is P2W though. If you can pay to increase your stats it is clearly P2W, moreso than buying retainers which alot of people complain about.

---

I am pretty sure no one cares about the little 1% stats you get from changing a character lol. The racial stats make very small difference.
If I had to pick, I feel like more retainers are P2W but that's not saying much. Pay to Win more Gil if you're selling a lot of things I guess, we don't even have any real good Gil sinks
to use lol and with the ones we do have. [FC and Glamour.] You're not beating someone over anything.
FC just for fun.
Glamour also for fun and to look pretty. Nothing else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunavi

Here it is not about whenever or not it is worth the money, here it is about that it is a clear p2w system.

---

Bah, it's SO not pay to win. I paid no attention to character creation whatsoever even though I knew I'd play Bard as my main job since day one, all I cared about is what I look like. If someone was a min/maxer they would have created their character the proper race to begin with. What exactly are you going to win with 4 more stats anyway?

Anyhoozle if SE was smart they would remove character stat differences tho, so people can't be whiny about it.

Hmmmm, thought I would do everyone a favor and direct those off topic to the correct thread -

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-is-Pay-2-WIN

XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skull_Angel

I don't quite understand why people are against vanity items being in a cash shop though; you don't need them, they don't give any advantage, don't buy them if you don't care for them. No one has brought up a good argument against vanity items being in a cash shop either and the best argument I've heard is "they're annoying".

---

because vanity items already come from ingame recipes, achievement rewards, event rewads and dungeon drop. No need to create a cash shop for it

It feels like double dipping when they charge a sub fee then release a bunch of mounts/pets/vanity items on the shop. Activision/Blizzard is notoriously bad for doing this, they save all the best looking most animated mounts and pets for the cash shop even though they have a $15 a month sub fee. They tested the waters with celestial steed people called them sparkle ponies and made 80m dollars in 1 day selling them for $25 a pop. Then it continued with many more mounts and pets every few months.

Honestly I hope SE doesn't start doing this because I really shouldn't have to pay more money to have access to everything in the game.