Please change "marriage" name for "Menphina's Pledge"

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Due to recent actions taken on threads of a similar topic, I wanted to post a quick reminder to keep this thread on the original topic of the thread. Focusing the discussion on the lore of an in game system and alternate naming possibilities is certainly an interesting subject, one which I will be following outside of moderation to see how these ideas progress. However, if the thread does go off topic or becomes inflammatory, actions may need to be taken against the thread (making it invisible or locking it) or anyone found violating the rules of the forums. If you feel that there is a violation of the rules, please do report it and we will investigate it and handle it appropriately.

LGM Enkrateia

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Thanks for your feedback LGM Enkrateia. Seeing your action on the "vote" thread, I was expecting a word from you at some point too ^^

Feel free to lock this thread if you find it to be going wild. I think the message has been passed, and while constructive feedback is always good to have on each side of the argument (if argument there is), some subjects tends to end up as a mess way too easily.

I do hope we can have a word from the devs on the topic though, as unlikely as it might seem :p

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Originally Posted by Issac

OP, edit this into the original post, would you kindly? I'd rather not see this topic locked and sunk.

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I sure did. I am really happy that this threads keeps its adult and constructive debate for now

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

We hope that you do follow up with the dev team or whoever your contact is. I know you are doing your job with locking threads but it feels an AWFUL lot like we're just being silenced because SE doesn't want to deal with the issue.

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Most threads are silenced due to multiple ToS violations, so many that the LGMs and devs can't deal with it anymore. Let's hope it won't happen here :)

little bump for american peak time coming soon. The more constructive feedback we get the better

even when you stay on topic or off topic or stating your opinion on things, the GM deletes or removes the comment but leaves the comment of others that started the comment up, causing you to reply to them, instead of removing the whole topic, they lock it but people can still read it but never deletes the person who started the whole mess to begin with.

almost think they choose sides, I don't like favoritism, just saying its odd.

I think its a good idea to change the name of it. One of the main reason SSM currently isn't coming is they do not want to upset people. So a good solution i think would be to not call it marriage call it something else and build lore around it, Could even call it "Life Partners" ok not the best name but you can see what am going for. Take the word marriage away from it build it around the Lore of the world and done.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

even when you stay on topic or off topic or stating your opinion on things, the GM deletes or removes the comment but leaves the comment of others that started the comment up, causing you to reply to them, instead of removing the whole topic, they lock it but people can still read it but never deletes the person who started the whole mess to begin with.

almost think they choose sides, I don't like favoritism, just saying its odd.

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you know exactly why your comments where deleted

but on subject I agree with the name change, it makes more sense lore wise anyways.

I can get behind this. You have my support.

I can agree with this, lore wise it makes sense and it would end the debate of same sex marriage since its no longer marriage no reason to restrict it, its now a pledge or a vow no reason why it cant be between 2 of the same gender.

If you have as game with as much lore as this one and you're not taking advantage of that when naming systems, you're doing it TERRIBLY wrong.

/support

Considering the support I got for this idea, I have written a proper suggestion is the according part of the forum. Keep posting feedback, and don't be afraid to say so if you are against. As long as you remain constructive :)

I would be happy to improve the concept/lore thanks to your ideas on the subject

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I can't believe people are seriously complaining about this..

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I can't believe people can not let this topic die..

As I am not trying to beat a dead horse here, I think we can still be constructive on the matter. This thread has 2 major goals, one of them being a bit naive (but still exists) :

1) bring some sense in the whole union feature announced, as it really should focus a lot on the lore of Eorzea. That's why I chose the name "Menphina's Pledge" (please notice that I'm far from adamant on the name, it's just a fitting name I came with). With all the possibilities that SE could have, it would be disappointing to have a plain "marriage" without a deep story behind it, traditions, and relation to the cult of the Twelve.

2) (naive one) Put an end on the flame war on every debate on "marriage", as this thread isn't talking about who should or should not be united as one couple, but about how it could take place. This thread is primarily here to discuss about the details of the feature than about the feature itself. Which is what I explained here :

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I do not ask for gay marriage here. I'm asking for a lore-related, Eorzean bond between those who are in love.

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I do hope it will lead us to a great lore on the union feature, and that this feature will lead the community on a great path to socialization :)

OP, that was a beautiful and well thought out post. I support it. Menphina's Pledge sounds like a really nice solution and really does sound like something that would be more lore appropriate!

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Originally Posted by FireHero

One of the main reason SSM currently isn't coming is they do not want to upset people.

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Then their research is poor. Even in Japan, the support rate for SSM is 70% for people in their 20s and 30s (the main age range of FFXIV). Past games have shown that if you exclude it, it upsets people. If you include it, its a non issue.

I do like the idea of a different name for it, but not for the reason of pacifying the minority of players that are offended by SSM. Its a great idea for lore/immersion purposes to make a unique Eorzean union.

"marriage" & "love" is just so odd in an online game. I could understand if you happen to game with your significant other, but to Game Marry avatars... /smh.

The name change suggestion is a step in the right direction... I like the Oath Brother/Sister suggestion MUCH better.

Whatever the form, it should not discriminate based on an AVATAR'S sex.

I'm somewhat curious what the Japanese, French etc forums think about the marriage system... not that it would change my opinion though.

strange how in FFXI there was marriage and I never seen as much drama circling around it as I do in this game. Other online games have marriage as well, did they also have this much controversy?

I'll keep this short and simple:

I don't think a new word for it is necessary.

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Originally Posted by peaches

No, it is their childlike features. They may not be children lore wise, but they definitely look like 4 year olds in real life. They most certainly do not have the features of human adults, or even of midgets/dwarfs. I'm fine with them as a race, but for anyone to be sexually attracted to one (and you can't say nobody is, there are a ton of people who are about every race in game) is downright creepy. I don't care if they're adults in lore but anyone attracted to a 4 year old's features should be put on some kind of watch list.

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Let be fair, Lalafell do not have features of human children.

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Originally Posted by kidvideo

"marriage" & "love" is just so odd in an online game. I could understand if you happen to game with your significant other, but to Game Marry avatars... /smh.

The name change suggestion is a step in the right direction... I like the Oath Brother/Sister suggestion MUCH better.

Whatever the form, it should not discriminate based on an AVATAR'S sex.

I'm somewhat curious what the Japanese, French etc forums think about the marriage system... not that it would change my opinion though.

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As odd as it seems, pixel "love" (often RP'ed, sometimes not) would still be better for the community than the Oath Brother/Sister for the reasons I explained at comm #34 (after the ranma joke). My point of view is based on the impression that the community deeply lacks incentives to socialize more than a few close friends though, and I may be wrong on this. In fact I wish I were wrong. Yet, with this as a base, "love" would add a lot of incentives to meet people and socialize.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I'll keep this short and simple:

I don't think a new word for it is necessary.

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To be perfectly fair and honest, it is indeed not *needed* (technically speaking). The world won't end if it's called "marriage" in the end. However, don't you think it would be a miss if we don't take advantage of our world's lore for new features that are coming ?

I do appreciate the feedback though. :)

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Originally Posted by kidvideo

"marriage" & "love" is just so odd in an online game. I could understand if you happen to game with your significant other, but to Game Marry avatars... /smh.

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I think the whole idea of game "marriage" is just fine. What's funny, though, is you know the majority of guys will be marrying gals - played by guys. That's just a bit creepy.

I will say I don't think anyone would quit the game just because of same-sex marriage being implemented.

This thread is insane. I cant even.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

This thread is insane. I cant even.

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Please explain your point of view. Keep it constructive ^^

In the words of Sterling Archer: "Phrasing!"

Calling it something else would help I think, as long as there are no boundaries to this "Pledge". That's really the issue at hand: people being able to have same-sex couplings. There's plenty of reasons: plenty of guys playing girl chars and they have girl friends on in-game girl characters they want to get hitched to, same gendered people wanted to be paired, the list goes on.

I recall a situation in FFXI where a couple of people I knew (in-game anyway) got a sanctioned GM marriage. The guy had a Mithra char but he made a male Elvaan for the marriage. (the other char was a female Elvaan) Anyway, years later the guy finally found out the person he married was actually a guy IRL, but that other person did such a fantastic job of role-playing and never tried to dissuade anyone from flirting with them.

Anyway, in summary I think that different wording would go a long ways for this and that SE needs to include as many people as possible. I'm sure they have their own thoughts on things though, so this is either going to end up a very popular feature or a very exclusive one, depending on which way they decide to go with it.

As a gay man I am normally against offering a different but identical thing, due to the connotations it normally has.

In this case however I support it, no one is getting Marriage. As such no one can complain that any specific marriage is wrong (Be it same sex, different in game races etc) since it's not Marriage in the first place, even for different sex Hyur couples.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

I will say I don't think anyone would quit the game just because of same-sex marriage being implemented.

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If they do, we probably didn't want them here in the first place.

I just think that maybe people are taking the marriage system a little too serious. At this point I wouldn't care if they didn't add marriage into the game because of the feedback they get from the forums.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

To be perfectly fair and honest, it is indeed not *needed* (technically speaking). The world won't end if it's called "marriage" in the end. However, don't you think it would be a miss if we don't take advantage of our world's lore for new features that are coming ?

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I don't see how calling it marriage doesn't take advantage of lore. It doesn't need a special name to be based in lore.

I support it even more if it is tied to lore as it will give it a trait that will somewhat make it easier to differentiate Eorzea from real life.
If it's tied to lore then by all means it has every right to do anything it pleases, even if it is deemed unacceptable in the real word. It's in a fictional game which is not real life thus should not have real life problems influencing it.
Also since it's tied into lore, it'll allow more freedom of roleplaying and more " fantasy" esque things.
The ppl who push for equality in LGBT communities are just as bad as the people who push for inequality.
The only thing that should cause an uproar is if marriage gave bonus stats.
The fight would then be between singles and couples.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

The ppl who push for equality in LGBT communities are just as bad as the people who push for inequality.

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This statement is baffling. Unless you're generalizing based on an example of poor behavior. Otherwise...

This controversy could have been avoided if they just didn't add it in XD eh i can still rp my yuri couple, marriage is just words and some documents, true love doesn't need that crap

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I don't see how calling it marriage doesn't take advantage of lore. It doesn't need a special name to be based in lore.

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As english isn't my native language, I'll edit this if I get myself misunderstood on the following point :


While a union (especially "love" union) in a MMO, regardless of lore, restrictions or debates, is a great feature in order to build and maintain a strong community sense and to allow more socialization, a name as generic as "marriage" has little to no attachment value to the game.

There are "marriages" in a lot of games, and regardless of the lore, most of said games just call it "marriage". The result is a loss of what makes these games unique : their story and traditions. There are stories, tales, religions, gods, all different in different games. Yet the union is nearly always called the same, "marriage".

However, having a different name makes it unique. Different rites, different name, different world. Each MMO should be different, and not only on its core lore, but also on its side lore. All the little things we love to do or explore should be a part of what makes a game unique.

Applied to Eorzea, it leads us to some statements :
=> The lore is present in every little detail. Each ruin, isle, ship, village.. has its history. Some are yet to be known, some were revealed not so long ago (think Sapsa spawning ground, why were they there, so close to Limsa ? Now we know)
=> Many if not all players who interested themselves in the lore are well aware that the gods we worship under the name of "the Twelve" are real entities, even though in 2.0+ story we have yet to find any physical presence of them (only Hydaelyn revealed herself at the moment). They even have a sanctuary, and all Eorzea share their cult. Also, each god has his/her own field of specialization. One of them being Menphina the Lover.


Now IF we want to bring more community sense, a feature like this union becomes a great idea. For the points I've already said in this thread (page 4 mainly).
But IF we want more attachment to the world of Eorzea itself, every little detail making it more unique counts. The ceremony to celebrate the tie between two beings is no different. Making it unique, with unique naming lore-related, would contribute towards a pleasant feeling for the game universe.

I believe that's what MMO-RPG is about : dream, adventure, freedom, fantasy. This world is not one world among others. For the time we're in, it's our world. Let's make it unique and let the fantasy live. One more time for the final time.


honestly, if you read all that, thank you for reading, and thank you for anything you could say which could improve my english or the sense I wanted to put in my message. Also, thanks again for all the feedback. ありがとう ございます

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

*snip*

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slightly off topic but does anyone else want to find out the gods are basically just the same as primals in a new expansion? i.e: born from the faith of races? i really would if only for the simple following of anti-religion tradition in FF games XD

I support it entirely. I completely agree with the idea. It fits perfectly with the game lore, and given the Twelve is held highly, it would make sense entirely.

I really fail to see how this is a big deal anyway, Let's do it to it!

I don't give 2 craps either way.. I'll only do it for the tux

Honestly, I was more expecting the system to take on a different name with different customs than our real life Western marriages, but then I saw this picture and was a little disappointed. Why do we need to have flowing white dresses with veils? I would love to see the system drastically different from our marriage system and be something totally original. I greatly support calling it something else so as to include everyone without backlash. (I did sort of luck out in that my partner is playing a female Lalafell, so by sheer coincidence I'm able to have my character 'marry' his regardless of gender or race limitations, but I wouldn't want to restrict others.)

I've been wondering; if they did restrict marriage to be between a male and female only, couldn't someone get married and then use the Phantasia to change their gender? Would the marriage go away?

Do like ESO did with the rings of Mara. You and whomever you give the ring to get buffs while partied together.

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Originally Posted by Schaeffa

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lol thanks for the tip, will do that if i actually meet another lesbian playing a female character that i happen to hit it off with in game (so if a miracle happens)

I support the idea of giving it a different name. Base it the Lores of the game. If not for any other reason than to be unique. I don't recall the word marriage or married or marry used as of yet, so no back peddling is needed (unless one or more have been used, then...)

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Originally Posted by Memoriae

you know exactly why your comments where deleted

but on subject I agree with the name change, it makes more sense lore wise anyways.

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Actually I had only one comment deleted, it was on point of what another person was saying, I think the person reported it because I was right and the only way to get rid of my comment is to do it that way.

If they didn't like the reply, then why make a stupid comment on forums, when you know someone like me or someone else is gonna state their opinion.

Then cause they can't come back with a statement of their own and get mad they report you. I say what I feel about whatever subject they bring up. if SE or the person in question doesn't like the answer or reply then why not delete the person who made the comment to begin with?

which is called favoritism, allowing the starter say what they want even if its bad, the person who comes off looking like a jerk but is correct gets the "can" even if it looks like a jerk comment, people don't actually have sound to text or no facial expressions but only can assume its bad, when a person could actually be nice about it even if it looks like a jerk, that is my opinion about this stuff.

I actually didn't break ToS but because I compared the two similar things and I made a admin mad or a admin who is the same as the person which is taking side and should not their life with work.

Ok, people complain about everything, but this is too much. Even the word "marriage" is not politically correct now? Oh my. :P

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

Ok, people complain about everything, but this is too much. Even the word "marriage" is not politically correct now? Oh my. :P

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Problem I have with it is this, Admin said they are locking topic and before I lock topic I deleted one comment "which was mine" admin said because I brought real life issues.

The forums post has since been deleted but correct me if I am wrong, isn't gay marriage a real life issue and half of others were doing it as well, so why they selected me because I stated something about discrimination that another person brought up I was replying, though they deleted me instead of that person. but why target me then after delete the whole topic, like the admin chose me for a reason instead of the whole crowd.

It's over now but I still think its jacked up, I am letting it go because I am a bigger person. still don't like favoritism it's reason I quit a lot of FFXI linkshells.