64-Bit and DirectX 11

They said DX 11 is coming soon. By the end of the year they will show us a demo so we can see how it looks. I hope they gonna release a DX11 benchmark so we can test it on our systems. I hope for a 64bit client but I don't think we gonna get it at all. It would be nice though.

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Originally Posted by zer0patches

There is no difference in the microcode between PC's and XBOX or PS4.

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There are many differences between a console that operates games at bare metal and a PC that operates through high and kernel level api's.

Hold UP DX12 is around the corner Lets just wait for that !

I think I am confused on something. I read a forum post a very long time ago or maybe it was an interview on the web with Yoshi-P but didn't they say DX11 and 64Bit would be bundled together and released at the same time?

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Originally Posted by WHS

I think I am confused on something. I read a forum post a very long time ago or maybe it was an interview on the web with Yoshi-P but didn't they say DX11 and 64Bit would be bundled together and released at the same time?

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I think I missed that part. but it would make sense that the DX11 client be 64 bit. we will have to wait and see

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Originally Posted by WHS

I think I am confused on something. I read a forum post a very long time ago or maybe it was an interview on the web with Yoshi-P but didn't they say DX11 and 64Bit would be bundled together and released at the same time?

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Yea I remember that. They said that they have a couple mile stone they want to reach before dx11 and 64bit. The mile stone that they want to get done right before working on a dx11 and 64bit client was the release of the ps4 ver. Since that had been done, the new client should be in the progress if not done soon.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

They said DX 11 is coming soon. By the end of the year they will show us a demo so we can see how it looks. I hope they gonna release a DX11 benchmark so we can test it on our systems. I hope for a 64bit client but I don't think we gonna get it at all. It would be nice though.

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God I hope so!

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Originally Posted by Riardon

They said DX 11 is coming soon. By the end of the year they will show us a demo so we can see how it looks. I hope they gonna release a DX11 benchmark so we can test it on our systems. I hope for a 64bit client but I don't think we gonna get it at all. It would be nice though.

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I hope it's sooner than the add-ons. I've got folders of pseudocode ready to be written. I just need a damn language and API.

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Originally Posted by Carzilla

Hold UP DX12 is around the corner Lets just wait for that !

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It's not really worth it, DX12 won't be tried and tested or have any of the 3rd party documentation, edits and various adjustments that we have now that DX11 has been knocking around for a long time.


It's not usually in SE's nature to go for something new when it comes to graphics technology, especially when they're trying to be as safe as they are with FFXIV:ARR.


It's a nice thought, but it's just too much of a pain to work with a new API when a more trusted one is available for use.



Edit: After checking again to see if DX12 had updated on any new additions, it seems we've only heard so far about it's new level of performance due to a complete re-write.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

I hope it's sooner than the add-ons. I've got folders of pseudocode ready to be written. I just need a damn language and API.

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You're never getting addons, deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

It's not really worth it, DX12 won't be tried and tested or have any of the 3rd party documentation, edits and various adjustments that we have now that DX11 has been knocking around for a long time.

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DirectX 12 is optimising the API behavior itself, so almost all of 11's techniques will bolt straight in, they actually went in and looked at what happened to be taking up the most time in the stack and optimised it considerably, Lets just say that object complexity and count won't be the source of 'CPU<->driver<->gpu' bottlenecks anymore.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

You're never getting addons, deal with it.

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This says otherwise.

oh look at the date... 2011.

its not happening.

1. It can't be done on ps3 or ps4, meaning pc will have an unfair advantage (SE won't permit that)
2. It provides way too much power to 'lifers' who do nothing but play ff14.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

oh look at the date... 2011.

its not happening.

1. It can't be done on ps3 or ps4, meaning pc will have an unfair advantage (SE won't permit that)
2. It provides way too much power to 'lifers' who do nothing but play ff14.

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The date is irrelevant. It is a source claiming it will happen so unless you have a source that is more recent and that's stating otherwise, everything you're stating is pure conjecture.

Edit: And Silentwindfr's post (which is date from 2014, so you can't use data as an excuse) under mine just confirms that they are still willing to let us use addons in the future.

a more recent interview:

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Nova Crystallis: Is add-on support is still in the cards and when we might be able to expect it if it is?

Yoshida: In terms of add-on support the design is in progress – we do have programmers assigned to that task with coding just about to begin. When it does finally come to fruition we will be able to provide it along with a manual for it. We do have to be honest – production is a little bit behind only because the development for the PS4 version has been going very smoothly so we’ve been trying to put more effort into that as well as a large milestone we want to hit moving forward is to start service in China so we’d like to make for a successful release in that region as well. We are hoping that the support will be offered maybe after same timing.

We have made a lot of updates to the user interface so looking at it we’re starting to think “Do we really need add-ons?” It’s getting to that level where it’s so much improved. But I’m sure people want to do other things such as changing the skin and things like that.

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sources: here

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

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Thanks for providing a more recent source!

It would be nice to have a 64 bit client + Dx11 until the expansion. I think it would be nice to see FFXIV in a slightly better light in terms of performance and look. I'm not an expert about in what way it gonna improve those 2 points, but I'm sure it's gonna be a lot better then an old non-64bit client.

i know they work on a DX11 client, but never heard anything about a 64 bits clients that it sad.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

1. It can't be done on ps3 or ps4, meaning pc will have an unfair advantage (SE won't permit that)

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where do you get this malarky that it cant be done on PS3 or PS4? it most certainly can. especially if all of the addons are filtered through SE which you can bet they will be. the biggest issue for the PS3 will be memory limitations(however that does not mean small addons can't be used). the PS4 doesn't have such limitations.

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Originally Posted by Kazza2003

It would be nice to have a 64 bit client + Dx11 until the expansion. I think it would be nice to see FFXIV in a slightly better light in terms of performance and look. I'm not an expert about in what way it gonna improve those 2 points, but I'm sure it's gonna be a lot better then an old non-64bit client.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i know they work on a DX11 client, but never heard anything about a 64 bits clients that it sad.

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whether the DX11 client is 64 bit depends entirely on the amount of players that are still using 32 bit systems. there is a high likelyhood we will see a 64 bit client sooner or later anyway since the PS4 client is supposed to get a DX11 update as well.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

where do you get this malarky that it cant be done on PS3 or PS4? it most certainly can. especially if all of the addons are filtered through SE which you can bet they will be. the biggest issue for the PS3 will be memory limitations(however that does not mean small addons can't be used). the PS4 doesn't have such limitations.

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She means that unless add ons can be distributed equally between platforms, Square won't do it.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

She means that unless add ons can be distributed equally between platforms, Square won't do it.

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it was my understanding that was the plan SE had from the beginning.
also you should note that SE might go ahead with the addons on the PC and PS4 and pass over the PS3 since they plan on dropping support for it sometime after the expansion anyway

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

DirectX 12 is optimising the API behavior itself, so almost all of 11's techniques will bolt straight in, they actually went in and looked at what happened to be taking up the most time in the stack and optimised it considerably, Lets just say that object complexity and count won't be the source of 'CPU<->driver<->gpu' bottlenecks anymore.

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But, it's like you didn't read anything I psoted.


If it's not tried, tested and proven, Square Enix won't touch it.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

oh look at the date... 2011.

its not happening.

1. It can't be done on ps3 or ps4, meaning pc will have an unfair advantage (SE won't permit that)
2. It provides way too much power to 'lifers' who do nothing but play ff14.

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The DirectX 11 client is already confirmed, graphical adjustments mean squat to balance.

(If you meant add-ons that's a negligible addition that most console players generally won't care about)

DirectX 11 modified, runs on a PS4. I'm not sure which hat you're pulling this out of.

The PS3 is pretty much a write off after 3.0, depending on the number of log-ins the PS3 receives we can see this leaving sooner rather than later.

I don't have the latest and greatest GPU. I have the one I bought before 1.0 hit, the recommended one, the gtx460.

God I hope DX11 is on the way, because every other dx11 game I've played put well less stress on my cpu compared to turning on dx10/9.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

where do you get this malarky that it cant be done on PS3 or PS4? it most certainly can. especially if all of the addons are filtered through SE which you can bet they will be. the biggest issue for the PS3 will be memory limitations(however that does not mean small addons can't be used). the PS4 doesn't have such limitations.

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It cannot, as Sony does not permit unsigned/unlicensed code to be run on either the Ps3 or PS4.


Hence why you never had Mods for Skyrim on the PS3 even though the engine permits it.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

But, it's like you didn't read anything I psoted.

DirectX 11 modified, runs on a PS4. I'm not sure which hat you're pulling this out of

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DirectX 11 doesn't run on a PS4 at all, DirectX is a microsoft API.

the Playstation uses something much closer to OpenGL (but not opengl) as well as bare metal programming.

But yes, i was referring to addons.

Neither can happen on the Playstation platform - it unbalances the game in favour of PC players and whence SE realises this fact, addons will be dropped and forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

It cannot, as Sony does not permit unsigned/unlicensed code to be run on either the Ps3 or PS4.

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Strictly speaking MMO addons are generally text files so there's no actual code coming from the addon. LUA is fairly popular for MMOs UIs; SE probably have their own custom UI code. An addon would only be able to access APIs that are permitted by the developers and that would only modify the UI and not any of Sony APIs.

I think the main issue with addons would be consoles, yes, but probably the overhead a API would consume. The only addon I would like to see would be a parser even only if it's personal because I like to see how well I'm doing or if that upgrade really is an upgrade or not.

I would like an official parser too.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

It cannot, as Sony does not permit unsigned/unlicensed code to be run on either the Ps3 or PS4.

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and who says it will be unsigned/unlicensed? if it has to pass through SE to be used it will most certainly be refined/signed as for being licensed. pretty sure anything they put in place is considered licensed. they aren't going to let just any addons pass you can be sure of that much.

back on topic. they did say at the london fanfest they expect to be able to show the DX11 client by the end of the year. hopefully not long after we will see it released

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

DirectX 11 doesn't run on a PS4 at all, DirectX is a microsoft API.
the Playstation uses something much closer to OpenGL (but not opengl) as well as bare metal programming.
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Clearly you need to do more research, as it's something we've already done successfully thanks to the swap to a x86 based architecture making it a slightly task.

The PS4 does support DirectX 11 regardless of the fact that it's a Microsoft API, whether or not Square Enix will take the opportunity to utilize this or simply stick with the OpenGL iteration they've used previously is anyone's guess.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Clearly you need to do more research, as it's something we've already done successfully thanks to the swap to a x86 based architecture making it a slightly task.

The PS4 does support DirectX 11 regardless of the fact that it's a Microsoft API, whether or not Square Enix will take the opportunity to utilize this or simply stick with the OpenGL iteration they've used previously is anyone's guess.

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The ps4 does not support directX as it does not use a Windows based operating system.

What it does have is a gpu designed around directx's ideals with a few extra's instructions/functions that are usually not made available on pc's.


Don't argue semantics, you'll lose; as going by your argument any gpu with shaders is able to use directx (which is not the case).

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

The ps4 does not support directX as it does not use a Windows based operating system.

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It runs a modified DirectX 11.1 API. You don't need a MS OS to use it.

Something you can easily Google. As it was demonstrated at GDC by Sony.

All this tells me is you are not educated in the subject matter aka PS4 hardware.

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Mar. 28, 2013
The PS4 sees Sony move to a 64-bit x86 chip architecture, which will be music to the ears of developers, especially those used to working on PC games. The good news doesn’t stop there, though. Developers will be able to take advantage of Microsoft’s latest industry standard DirectX API — DirectX 11.1, but Sony has taken the time to improve upon it, pushing the feature set beyond what is available for PC games development.
Those improvements include better shader pipeline access, improved debugging support features out the box, and much lower level access to the system hardware enabling developers to do “more cool things.” That’s achieved not only through an modified DirectX 11.1 API, but also a secondary low-level API specifically for the PS4 hardware.

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Source

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

Don't argue semantics, you'll lose; as going by your argument any gpu with shaders is able to use directx (which is not the case).

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I'm not arguing semantics. That's not even what the definition for semantics means.

We literally used it on basic build running on a PS4, no less than 5 months ago.
I don't know why you're throwing in key-phrases such as 'shaders' or 'instructions/functions' aside from an attempt to look partially pre-educated on the subject.


Besides spouting absolute nonsense if you can't even simply type into google "DX11 PS4" to find even the most basic information on the subject, then don't bother responding.
Please see the previous poster who took the basic imitative to look it up first before replying.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

back on topic. they did say at the london fanfest they expect to be able to show the DX11 client by the end of the year. hopefully not long after we will see it released

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It seems from the screenshots and video's we've seen that there's a certain improvement in the general lighting and shadow casting already, and (it may just be due to the fact that it's a compressed screenshot) but I think they've finally added in some form of Hardware-Based Anti-Aliasing (Even if they don't it's something we can add in ourselves under DX11).

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

DirectX 11 doesn't run on a PS4 at all, DirectX is a microsoft API.

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the PS4 does DirectX 9/11 and OpenGL. the current PS4 version of the game is using a version of DirectX 9.0 but if you had been paying attention to what the devs were saying you would know this. personally I wish they went with OpenGL. it usually has superior performance on machines that can use it.

What I would like to know is if the DX 11 update will include the PS4. It is a DX 11 console. Will be ever see any graphical improvements to the PS4 game?

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

What I would like to know is if the DX 11 update will include the PS4. It is a DX 11 console. Will be ever see any graphical improvements to the PS4 game?

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it was my understanding they were going to port the PC DX11 client and tweak it for the PS4 shortly after they release it. maybe they will port it then release them together(we can hope)

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Originally Posted by Shioban

It seems from the screenshots and video's we've seen that there's a certain improvement in the general lighting and shadow casting already, and (it may just be due to the fact that it's a compressed screenshot) but I think they've finally added in some form of Hardware-Based Anti-Aliasing (Even if they don't it's something we can add in ourselves under DX11).

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what videos were these?

/delete please

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

/delete please

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I think I speak for more than just myself when I say. no we would rather they didn't delete this

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

I think I speak for more than just myself when I say. no we would rather they didn't delete this

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I was meaning my post not the thread.

Are you people serious about this DX11 running on PS4? PS4 uses GNMX and GNM, created by Sony specifically for PS4. It has DX11-like feature set but is not DX11.

And frankly it wouldn't make sense for a console to use DX11. The whole point of DX is to make it possible for a game to run in multiple hardware variations which comes with a cost in performance. A console doesn't need that because it has fixed hardware. The only reason why a console would use DX or OGL is to make it possible for the games to still work on the next version of that console. Till now though consoles have always started their library from scratch and whatever backwards compatibility one may have had has been done through emulation.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

I would like an official parser too.

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There is an official parser.
The only question is whether or not the devs will eventually enable it for players or not. (Most likely not)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...21359633_o.jpg

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...s_from_yoship/

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Originally Posted by Edli

Are you people serious about this DX11 running on PS4? PS4 uses GNMX and GNM, created by Sony specifically for PS4. It has DX11-like feature set but is not DX11.

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the PS4 has DX9 compatibility which this game uses currently and DX11 compatibility which it will likely use in the future after the PC DX11 version is released. that is really all we need to know.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

There is an official parser.
The only question is whether or not the devs will eventually enable it for players or not. (Most likely not)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...21359633_o.jpg

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...s_from_yoship/

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their official take is that an official parser that shows all DPS from all players would be a bad idea due to how some players are downright uppity about the damage output of other players. so it is very likely they wont release an official one that shows anything more than the players own DPS(and possibly their pet) and nothing more.