skill-/spellspeed, why is it still here?

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Originally Posted by Kelthos

macro

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Never ever macro for monk. Even worse is that you macro with wait commands.

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Originally Posted by Kelthos

more attacks for Perfect Balance

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I'm at base skillspeed and have no problem fitting 5 attacks into Perfect Balance.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

White mages would like a word with you.

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Yeh, for whm it's an okay stat at best I guess. Point is, it's just there on all the gear where so little jobs really want it. Sometimes it's a matter of picking your poison..

OP, Spell speed is amazing for BLM, and skill speed is pretty useful from what my monk friends are telling me. Are they useful on every class? Heck no. Intelligence and Piety are pretty useless on Warrior but they don't need to buff it. Every class has different stats that are better for that specific class.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

White mages would like a word with you.

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bad ones, maybe

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

OP, Spell speed is amazing for BLM, and skill speed is pretty useful from what my monk friends are telling me. Are they useful on every class? Heck no. Intelligence and Piety are pretty useless on Warrior but they don't need to buff it. Every class has different stats that are better for that specific class.

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there is no intellect on warrior gear. spell/skill speed is on all class gear and for most classes it is a waste

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Never ever macro for monk. Even worse is that you macro with wait commands.

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Im not talking for endgame content just for FATES etc can just push the one button and watch tv or something else, mainly just to be lazy in some fights, but obviously for endgame stuff if you have to move around it wouldnt work.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

I'm at base skillspeed and have no problem fitting 5 attacks into Perfect Balance.

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With GCD < 2 sec you can get one more in, I know its not huge difference but I just enjoy attacking faster, it makes combat more exciting.

i like my skill speed on my pld, i personally wish there was a bit more to bring GCD down as its pretty nice to have faster combo actions to have especially during tank swaps. as far as secondary stats go i prefer SS over crit, but determn over SS.

on my whm i noticed a big improvement in healing rates with better SS melded into my gear, but found with my smn and sch SS was a bust. I haven't leveled BLM to see how SS changes the quality of battle.

The way i see SS played out is secondary, Hit hard first, then hit fast and find a balance between the two.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

OP, Spell speed is amazing for BLM, and skill speed is pretty useful from what my monk friends are telling me. Are they useful on every class? Heck no. Intelligence and Piety are pretty useless on Warrior but they don't need to buff it. Every class has different stats that are better for that specific class.

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Skill Speed is pretty detrimental to monks in fights that last longer than 5 minutes or so. Invigorate only does so much.

Take the Twintania fight (seeing that most people can access it and can relate), within the first few minutes of the fight (up to the first or second conflag) if you don't get put into a conflag to stop/slow your DPS 400+ skill speed will, generally, put you to 0 TP. The round about it obviously more TP management such as waiting for greased lightning to hit 1sec before hitting Snap Punch/Demolish.

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Originally Posted by Kelthos

With GCD < 2 sec you can get one more in, I know its not huge difference but I just enjoy attacking faster, it makes combat more exciting.

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And how much SS is needed to do that? You're sacrificing so much Determination and Critical to achieve that high of a number just so you'd run into TP starvation later on. And when you're TP-starved, you have to wait before you can attack again. Isn't that less exciting?
Here's an analogy: Do you want to hit fast but hit like a wet noodle for 5 minutes or hit hard, just a little bit less fast for 8 minutes?

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

Take the Twintania fight (seeing that most people can access it and can relate), within the first few minutes of the fight (up to the first or second conflag) if you don't get put into a conflag to stop/slow your DPS 400+ skill speed will, generally, put you to 0 TP.

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Even at base skillspeed, I was running in the neighborhood of 300-400 TP by the time divebomb starts.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Spellspeed and skillspeed are two stats that only gets better the more you put into it. 1 Determination is just as good DPS buff no matter how much you put in while 1 Crit gets worse the more you put into it while 1 Sspeed becomes better the more you put into it.

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Spellspeed is good for BLM because you have unlimited MP as resource. Skillspeed is useless because we all have the same TP regen no matter the skillspeed. Determination increases average damage. Crit increases critical hit rate per point so there's no diminishing returns there. Skillspeed increases attack speed but does not increase TP regen so you're running out of TP way earlier than you normally would.

What are you talking about? Spellspeed is awesome for me as BLM.. I have said this since 2.0. Just wait until next level cap. Spellspeed and skillspeed are two stats that only gets better the more you put into it. 1 Determination is just as good DPS buff no matter how much you put in while 1 Crit gets worse the more you put into it while 1 Sspeed becomes better the more you put into it.

Also beside pure numbers it improves my Quality of Life as my casttimes without it are RIDICULOUS. With as much Spellspeed as possible I can finish a higher percentage of my spells without having to move out of bad stuff. And that helps boosting my longtime DPS.

Hell no. It's a good stat and my scholar is based off spell speed and piety.

A great way to fix it is to allow cds to inherit spell speed as well.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

And how much SS is needed to do that? You're sacrificing so much Determination and Critical to achieve that high of a number just so you'd run into TP starvation later on. And when you're TP-starved, you have to wait before you can attack again. Isn't that less exciting?
Here's an analogy: Do you want to hit fast but hit like a wet noodle for 5 minutes or hit hard, just a little bit less fast for 8 minutes?

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Actually its not much sacrifice since I don't do coil or ex primals since I'm a fairly casual player the gloam set has close to enough on it with a few other pieces in there.

The set I am going for is: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MFEX
It's pretty low in Crit but its got a decent Det. and tons of Acc. if I decide to do a little coil.

I have only run out of TP a couple of times, but for what I do it is very rare the furthest coil ive done is T1, so for me I just find it more fun to attack faster.

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Originally Posted by wizzed

Hell no. It's a good stat and my scholar is based off spell speed and piety.

A great way to fix it is to allow cds to inherit spell speed as well.

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really? to me I didn't see a big difference in heal speed with spell speed especially considering Selene heals more than i do. i kinda favor Crit and Peity for my sch and just kinda forget about SS and acc.

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Originally Posted by wizzed

Hell no. It's a good stat and my scholar is based off spell speed and piety.

A great way to fix it is to allow cds to inherit spell speed as well.

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You know what's funny about this statement? A White Mage at level 30 gets a skill which doubles her spell speed stat for 10 seconds and even THAT only has the tiniest boost to overall casting speed and recast. In my case it's literally shaving off zero-point-one second from a Raise spell for having 800~ spell speed from 400~. I'm all for letting people build their characters however they want, but really I hope the maths works out better in your case than it does in mine.

it doesn't. ss and piety are not desirable stats for scholar.

Skill and spell speed are critical for some jobs in PVP. Also, I know some BLMs who focus pretty much strictly spell speed and their DPS is quite a bit higher than BLMs who choose not to.

Don't WHMs focus spell speed too?

It'd be nice if Skill Speed affected auto-attack delay.

And I mean it SE, it really needs to scale up TP regen.

Spell Speed is generally fine as-is.

It'd be interesting if Spell Speed acted as a CD reducer too (not just GCD, but long CD buffs/temps).

Or else, add a "Vigor" statistic which affects MP/TP regeneration rates, separate from the Sk/Sp Speed stats.

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Originally Posted by wizzed

Hell no. It's a good stat and my scholar is based off spell speed and piety.

A great way to fix it is to allow cds to inherit spell speed as well.

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Please do some research on SCH stat priorities because those are the two absolute worst secondaries for SCHs.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Spellspeed is good for BLM because you have unlimited MP as resource. Skillspeed is useless because we all have the same TP regen no matter the skillspeed.

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1.) Spellspeed is good for BLM because it has a universal application. The so called "unlimited MP resource" you mention isn't anywhere near as useful as spell speed because it becomes pointless since we BLM's suffer from downtime due to umbral III. Even though a lot of people in this thread just don't want to hear it or see it.

2.) Skill is anything but useless. Yet I'm not surprised that people prefer to see a cup half empty instead of being creative and resourceful with what they get.

3.) You all don't have the same TP regen. Monk gets 400 TP from invigorate. The most optimal time to use it is when you drop to exactly to 600TP. Dragoons get 500TP from invigorate. Paladins and Warriors don't get a TP regen source. Bards get Invigorate, Army's Peon, and Battle Voice and two of those helps every class/job that uses TP aside themselves.

Skill/spellspeed is good for exactly one job, BLM, because their class gimmick involves circumventing resource management, which is the entire reason why skill/spellspeed is not a desired stat to begin with (running out of TP too quickly). Additionally, it has exactly zero impact on damage over time spells, so it's worthless for summoners. Healers don't value it much because healing is much less about pumping out as much HPS as you can and more about choosing the right spells/targets, resource management, reacting quickly with clutch heals and so on.

Ultimately all the stat would need to make it a valued stat is to have it increase the rate of resource regeneration. However I have to wonder if this is even possible, since it seems like *everything* in this game works on the same 3 second server tickrate and it may not be possible to change this without modifications to the underlying architecture of the game.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

(..) avoided like the plague by SMN.

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Really that terrible? um... i like your comment, its fitting ;)
Still strange that SE try to give us SS equip, maybe because we share equip with BLM :(

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

we BLM's suffer from downtime due to umbral III.

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BLMs actually don't spend much time in Umbral Ice, let alone III. Please look up BLM's rotation thread.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

You all don't have the same TP regen.

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TP regen is the auto rate you gain back TP, not through skills. Invigorate helps but that doesn't count towards TP regen. Also MNK's optimal Invigorate use is at 540 TP so even if there's a TP tick after you use it, it's not wasted. PLD has Shield Swipe which is low TP cost, high potency as a mean to help with TP. WAR has Berserk though the use of both skills are limited.

I'd like to see Skill/Spell Speed reworked as an overall cooldown reduction.

Skill Speed and Spell Speed effect GCD's and cast times only. If it also reduced the cooldown to things like Rampart and Swiftcast, it would be a lot more compelling.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Please look up BLM's rotation thread.

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Because I can't tell that I spend an average of 12 seconds in umbral 3 every minute, amirite. Should total not notice the accumulated 1 minute down time every 5 minutes.

Sarcasm aside.

I don't need to go to the BLM section when I've being down things they haven't before they even consider it.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Bards get Invigorate, Army's Peon, and Battle Voice and two of those helps every class/job that uses TP aside themselves.

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I'm trying to figure out what you're saying here. First off, I've never seen a BRD who already has Invigorate use Paeon for himself. Like, I just don't think I've ever seen one be that TP starved. And the only of those abilities that doesn't affect BRD is Battle Voice. Nevermind that Paeon is the last skill I would use BV on barring some really weird party composition. . .

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm trying to figure out what you're saying here.

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Pro-tip: Read previous comments.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Pro-tip: Read previous comments.

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Pro-tip: Write sentences that make sense.

See, I can be sarcastic, too. >_>

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Really that terrible? um... i like your comment, its fitting ;)
Still strange that SE try to give us SS equip, maybe because we share equip with BLM :(

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Yes, that is why.

I have said it before SE and I say it again: Please give BLM and SMN different gear! Atleast coil drops should be separated. As it is now BLMs and SMNs are the DPS jobs having the hardest time getting geared as they have to compete with another class for gear.

Also, we do not look different at all... I am glad SMNs got good looking gear now, but still :/ Please let the gear be separated.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Because I can't tell that I spend an average of 12 seconds in umbral 3 every minute, amirite. Should total not notice the accumulated 1 minute down time every 5 minutes.

Sarcasm aside.

I don't need to go to the BLM section when I've being down things they haven't before they even consider it.

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Wow. You are the worst poster I've seen on these forums so far.

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

Wow. You are the worst poster I've seen on these forums so far.

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Yeah..that's bad.

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Originally Posted by rhemi1

Please do some research on SCH stat priorities because those are the two absolute worst secondaries for SCHs.

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I've solo healed in Titan Ex, I've cleared content up till T8 inclusive, I've been researching and came up with my own build that I'm with piety/spell speed. I don't see why this is bad.

People stereotyping Scholars to have Crit/Det build are sad.

I am proud to say I am one of the best scholars around. I was one of the pioneers to have solo healed Titan Ex with a Scholar WITH my build. I don't see what's wrong with my build.

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDT4bNLla8

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Originally Posted by wizzed

I am proud to say I am one of the best scholars around. I was one of the pioneers to have solo healed Titan Ex with a Scholar WITH my build. I don't see what's wrong with my build.

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From what I can tell in this thread the primary reasons speed is hated is because it doesn't make numbers go big. Which is funny and sad. BLM while being burstiest benefits the most from spell speed. People just can't seem to get why.

I think I would have better luck asking the Eye of Sauron if he can see why kids love cinammon toast crunch.

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Originally Posted by wizzed

a bunch of irrelevant information

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People don't 'stereotype' SCHs into Crit/Det builds, people gear for Crit/Det because they're our best secondary stats.

Spell Speed scales so terribly that it's not even worth gearing for, especially given that SCHs have access to several tools that allow us to bypass the normal cast bar timer and not be as reliant in chain casting as a WHM. If you're using Selene, you more than likely have enough Spell Speed than you really need already.

Crit works in tandem with Galvanize shields, and gives your fairy more crit chance...which is more Spell Speed. There's a reason we don't gear for it; We get plenty via procs and buffs. Det isn't so hot, but you'll appreciate those larger numbers when you get to content where your tanks are getting slammed with enormously large amounts of damage (T9).

I mean, grats on solo healing Titan EX, content that was always easily solo healable since EX lacks the one thing that made solo healing Titan slightly difficult (stacking stomps). But that doesn't mean your build is good, or should be encouraged. If anything, you're just promoting more bad SCH play, which we really don't need more of. There's already plenty of awful ones around.

The problem we have here is same as we have seen on other content:
Square Enix calculates from a max number gathered of points possible and scales down the content...
You seen that way on calculation of housing prices!

That means: you not only need full focus on SS gear in each part, but also Selen Buff and Food (have I forgotten something?). Well... when really maxed everything on SS you indeed feel the difference with each job, but the question is what you sacrify for it and when testing on dummys, you will see the gain istn that great for the effort... only worth on some jobs, but even so to sacrify crit is a big loss...

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

From what I can tell in this thread the primary reasons speed is hated is because it doesn't make numbers go big. Which is funny and sad. BLM while being burstiest benefits the most from spell speed. People just can't seem to get why.

I think I would have better luck asking the Eye of Sauron if he can see why kids love cinammon toast crunch.

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BLM has infinite resources, but it's the only class with that luxury.
Other classes have skills to recover some of their MP/TP, but they still spend more than they can get back .

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Originally Posted by wizzed

I've solo healed in Titan Ex, I've cleared content up till T8 inclusive, I've been researching and came up with my own build that I'm with piety/spell speed. I don't see why this is bad.

People stereotyping Scholars to have Crit/Det build are sad.

I am proud to say I am one of the best scholars around. I was one of the pioneers to have solo healed Titan Ex with a Scholar WITH my build. I don't see what's wrong with my build.

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDT4bNLla8

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All because you can do it that way doesn't mean it's the best way.

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Originally Posted by Ryihito

All because you can do it that way doesn't mean it's the best way.

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There is no best way to play a class. Even if you have the "World's Best Scholar Build" and you are not up to standard, you will still be shitty.

I am voicing my opinion, and somebody out there is saying my build is the worst. I absolutely don't feel that way at all. I'm still building my Scholar with no crits, I'm looking into more piety all the time, any spell speed that comes along the way is good. But Critical is definitely not on my list.

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Originally Posted by wizzed

-snip-

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there is a best way to play a class. min-maxing exists. perfect rotations/flowcharts exists. saying there isn't is aspiring to mediocrity.

oh, you have solo healed titan EX? big deal. its been done before, its been done a myriad of times. it will be done again.

its a mediocre build because it focuses on a stat that doesn't support you in a drawn out fight. unlike the other stats (like critical hit rate) all skill speed does is drain your mp/tp for what? so you can cast spells/attack slightly faster than normal...its a dps/hps increase, but it makes you incredibly bursty because you drain all of your resources faster than everyone else.

whats the phrase? "a fire that burns twice as hot burns for half as long." the faster you attack, the faster you use your assets, and the faster you run out of said assets to use.

the same goes for any job that isn't black mage.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

From what I can tell in this thread the primary reasons speed is hated is because it doesn't make numbers go big. Which is funny and sad. BLM while being burstiest benefits the most from spell speed. People just can't seem to get why.

I think I would have better luck asking the Eye of Sauron if he can see why kids love cinammon toast crunch.

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its hated because its utterly detrimental. i don't want a stat that results in me being TP starved not even half way through a long fight.

why do you think all the monks are crying? greased lightning boosts skill speed, they end up tp staved if they lapse in tp regulation for even half a dozen GCDs.

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Originally Posted by wizzed

I've solo healed in Titan Ex, I've cleared content up till T8 inclusive, I've been researching and came up with my own build that I'm with piety/spell speed. I don't see why this is bad.

People stereotyping Scholars to have Crit/Det build are sad.

I am proud to say I am one of the best scholars around. I was one of the pioneers to have solo healed Titan Ex with a Scholar WITH my build. I don't see what's wrong with my build.

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDT4bNLla8

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http://i.imgur.com/O3CVd5h.png
My achievement, but i didn't stack it much - it can go much higher. Having this much spell speed makes healing content and generally playing much easier compared to relying on crit.
With an off-gcd energy drain i don't have a problem with mana.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

My SMN right now has 500 Spell Speed, this is way too much isn't it? I was thinking of trying to phase that down to 300 or so.

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and SMN does not need SS that much, tbh

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You know what's funny about this statement? A White Mage at level 30 gets a skill which doubles her spell speed stat for 10 seconds and even THAT only has the tiniest boost to overall casting speed and recast. In my case it's literally shaving off zero-point-one second from a Raise spell for having 800~ spell speed from 400~. I'm all for letting people build their characters however they want, but really I hope the maths works out better in your case than it does in mine.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDT...8&noredirect=1

nuff said.