Leviathan Ex Weapons screw over Paladins & White Mages

Yeah, the mirror drop rate is junk, and we all expect them to become more common once people have wasted their time upgrading to Animus, but with 2.25 the path to 110 relic weapons should be coming out soon.

Who said the relic weapons will be i110? I still haven't seen a confirmation on the ilevel.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Who said the relic weapons will be i110? I still haven't seen a confirmation on the ilevel.

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I guess it's assumed that 110 will be the next step after 100. Probably a safe bet.

People said the exact same thing pre-2.2. I wouldn't bet a cent on it.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Who said the relic weapons will be i110? I still haven't seen a confirmation on the ilevel.

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We don't know about the exact iLevel but there's still several books that are already stated in-game and by the devs to not be available yet and those will likely boost the iL further.

Since we're supposed to see further parts of the questline in both 2.25 and 2.3, and High Allagan weapons will stay the best (iLevel wise) until 2.4, I doubt 2.25 will bring the relic higher than i105 with i110 in 2.3.

So.... anyone who's either no-lifed Levi EX or either got extremely lucky and got the Mirror drop and upgraded their respective shields already... gets a FREE Mirror?!

Sorry, but what BS is that?! Yes you have to use 2 Mirrors but that's because you have 2 DIFFERENT PIECES OF HAND-HELD GEAR in 2 DIFFERENT SLOTS!

Also the argument "everyone else can walk away with an ilvl 100 weapon after just one." doesn't stand, PLD's and WHM's can ALSO walk away with their ilvl100 Main hand Weapons using just 1 Mirror! But you also have a shield which is ANOTHER piece of equipment, jeez some people just want everything handed out on a silver platter.

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Originally Posted by Remn

BTW the upgrade version of the weapon has grow effect (blue color) look a lot cooler than animus to me.

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You sure about that?

http://i.imgur.com/GlC4F0H.jpg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DbiTrDj.jpg

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

complain

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you miss the point of this. the stats of the main are split with the shield. other classes get the full i100 stats with one mirror while pld and whm have to use two mirrors to get the same affect.

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Originally Posted by valho

At first when I read that, I thought that mirror drop rate would be look in to and increase, but it doesn't seems to be, which is quite disappointing. Me and my static have farm Levi quite a lot either together or separately, but only 1 of us have seen the mirror, the rest of us have never seen it drop. Not too mention that you have to roll against 7 other players if you are not in a static group. PF group have resorted to limiting roll for mirror to 2 person, but this also cause players not joining a group if the slot for mirror is full, simply because there is no reason to join unless they can roll for the mirror. Those that have been farming a lot will by now have the weapons they want or even some weapons that they don't, so mirror is the only reason to keep farming Levi.

Looking at how it is I would probably get my Animus done before I even see a mirror, let alone get one.

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One of the biggest problems we have since 1.x is that SE always thinks low droprate and rolling against 7 others is the same!
If you have low droprate, please give everyone a loot, i mean: it is already hard enough to win that damn fight (not everytime you have a static ready)
If you have to roll against 7 others, please increase droprate or give one 100% drop. Do you remember the time in 1.x where we gotten after wins just some dark matter?

Please SE, rethink your drop diplomacy...

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

Sorry, but what BS is that?! Yes you have to use 2 Mirrors but that's because you have 2 DIFFERENT PIECES OF HAND-HELD GEAR in 2 DIFFERENT SLOTS!

Also the argument "everyone else can walk away with an ilvl 100 weapon after just one." doesn't stand, PLD's and WHM's can ALSO walk away with their ilvl100 Main hand Weapons using just 1 Mirror! But you also have a shield which is ANOTHER piece of equipment, jeez some people just want everything handed out on a silver platter

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I hope you realize that itemlevel for classes using two-handed weapons takes their main hand's item level into the equation twice, and that the total stats of a 1h + shield is about the same total stats as a 2h.

Example 1: Calculating a WAR's item level adds up the item level of each piece of gear once, and the weapon twice. The sum is divided by 13 and rounded down and displayed as your item level. Calculating a PLD's item level adds up the item level of each piece of gear once, including the sword and the shield. The sum is divided by 13 and rounded down and displayed as your item level.

This means a 2h weapon has more weight towards item level compared to a 1h weapon. The second example shows that is also has more weight towards stats compared to a 1h weapon without the shield.

Example 2: PLD's Tidal Wave Sword has 30 Vit/26 Str. Tidal Wave Shield has 12 Vit/11 Str. Meanwhile Tidal Wave Axe for WAR has 42 Vit/37 Str. It currently takes two mirrors for the PLD to get the same stats as a WAR that spent one mirror, regardless of item slots.


Nobody's asking for FREE things. They're asking for fairness and it is a reasonable request.

The droprate on mirror just makes it totally useless. 1 in 40 divided by 8 people is simply a joke. Oh wait, you with 8 people from your fc? Then why the hell arent you working on t7 instead over wasting time in levi hoping to get a miniscule chance of a droprate. Theres even a i100 weapon that you can get from doing under CT gear required dungeons using the damn party finder. I dont get the fc's that are wasting all this time on that silly mirror even though i personally want it really bad. Just to have a couple different, totally useless, secondary stats? Not gonna drag my fc through there, i'll just use the shitty relic animus and get more coil tries in.

Bad design SE. I know you need to have the time required to get levi weap to be about the same as a coil weap or animus, but due to the absurd RNG factor it is just a massive waste of time comparatively, to not even mention trying to get your levi mirror solo by joining a pf.

It may have something to do with coil being time-gated and not Levi EX.

I like to think they did this to teach everyone a "lesson," since people were complaining about loot/raid lockouts despite SE saying the alternative was low drop rate.

But I agree, it's a waste of time currently. I only do it because I want the blue glow.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

It may have something to do with coil being time-gated and not Levi EX.

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Obviously it does, but its not like people are finding multiple mirrors a week.
T7 also has 100% droprate on weap.
You can call coil time gated, i call levi time wasted. And the system is exceptionally horrid as doing it solo in a pf your chance drops by another 8 times.

I agree that the mirror drop rate is absurdly low. After over 20 runs, I have only seen 1 drop. On top of the absurdly low drop rate, since I don't have a static, I will always be rolling against 7 other people. If this thing has a drop rate of 5%, means my actual odds of getting one are 0.625%.

I don't know whats worse - The mirror drop rate, or the atma farm. I started playing this game because it was a pretty casual MMO, that is not so much true anymore.

Players should only be allowed to roll need on the mirror if they have the weapon in their inventory/equipped. I Get pissed when someone wins the mirror and they don't even have the weapon. I only use primal weapons for my secondary classes because relic for those classes will be way to much stress on me.

well I caused loads of hate in my FC since I had my mirror 5th try and didnt have my weapon yet. Its all a matter of luck, and is better than the days when MMOs had drop rates of 0.02%.

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Originally Posted by Megido

Obviously it does, but its not like people are finding multiple mirrors a week.
T7 also has 100% droprate on weap.
You can call coil time gated, i call levi time wasted. And the system is exceptionally horrid as doing it solo in a pf your chance drops by another 8 times.

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What wep does Turn 7 drop? Turn 9 is the new Coil weps. Turn 7 is where you have the chance to get the Unidentified Allagan Tomestone to trade for a weathered wep but that also costs soldiery for tokens and I was under the impression the tomestone wasn't 100%. Even assuming the tomestone IS 100% it still means 8 weeks of work to get everyone 1 wep. This of course assumes your group has access to AND can clear Turn 7. Unless you suck royally at dodging, the gate for Levi access is a lot easier to pass through than the one to reach Turn 7. Producer himself responds to this issue with a very generous solution and still all people can do his complain...unbelievable...

In the long view, both Levi weapons and Coil weapons are likely to be a waste of time. They may be the best (or on par with the best) weapons now, but eventually the game is going to move on, add higher ilvl equipment, and both these pieces of gear will be gathering dust in your storage. The Relic weapons, I think, are the only ones that are going to consistently evolve as the game progresses.

As for folks whining about the drop rate, understand that getting the Levi weapon is not meant to be easy. In its own way, it's as difficult as upgrading a relic, or completing Coil turn 9. There's three different powerful weapons available, and three very different paths to acquiring them:
- Levi offers a lottery. To acquire this weapon requires luck, and lots of it.
- Coil offers a challenge. To acquire this weapon requires skill, and a likewise skilled group.
- Relic rewards patience. To acquire this weapon requires a willingness to put up with a mind-numbing grind, but eventual acquisition is inevitable if you keep at it.

There are folks that are fans of each possible path, and SE is trying to cater to them all, and I'd say successfully. If you don't like the ridiculously bad odds of walking away with a Levi weapon, try the path of challenge, or the path of patience. If you don't feel that you'll ever be good enough to beat coil, or have hardware limitations standing in the way, try the path of luck or the path of patience. If you can't stand the horrendous grind of the relic, try the path of luck or the path of challenge.

Don't expect any path to be easy - but bear in mind that as the game evolves and higher ilvls are added, SE will likely reduce the difficulty in achieving these weapons since they will be necessary stepping stones to new equipment. Long-term, I think, following the Relic will be the safest bet for a weapon that stays on-par with the best.

What would be cool is if the mirror drop rate was influenced by how many people had the Wave weapon equipped or maybe even in inventory, something like (n+1) * drop rate. Can even put it in the weapon description - "This weapon when used against Leviathian is more likely to extract vital essences upon defeating him...etc, etc"

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

This is FFXIV: A Realm Reborn Producer and Director Naoki Yoshida.

• The Tidal Wave Shield will be added as a possible shield reward for The Whorleater (Extreme).
• The Tidal Wave Buckler will be added as a possible shield reward for The Whorleater (Extreme).
• Players that have used a Mirror of the Whorl to upgrade a Wave Shield or Wave Buckler before Patch 2.25 will receive an additional Mirror of the Whorl.

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Thank you Yoshida-san!!! 大好きだあああああ！！！！ :o ♥♥♥

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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Except the issue with 2 of the paths they are both rng, and the 3rd takes just as long depending on your coil group.

You can get your Leviathan mirror in 1 run. You can get all 12 Atma in 10 hours. Other players do 100 Leviathans and 100 hours of Atma and get nothing to show for it. Talking of mirror, I know someone on Ragnarok who, joined a Leviathan EX farm, spent the majority of the fight dead, mirror dropped, he rolled on the mirror, and won it. How is that fair? It's not. Just like those who spent 100s of hours attempting to get Atmas for Relic and still don't have all 12 pieces.

Coil is not a viable alternative as it drops only one tome a week, most groups will likely be giving these to DPS so if you're a healer or tank you could be waiting in excess of 8-15 weeks before you even get your first tomestone.

It's very obvious why what was changed in progression in 2.2 was done; to make things take longer to do, to make you pay more months of subscription.

I find it mind-numbing, Yoshida himself has even spoken out against low drop rates in an interview before. He obviously knows the issues with it but implements this crap anyways.

Levi path rewards luck

Atma path rewards luck

Coil path depends on group

Or Paladins can just spend soldiery and get a better shield with less hassle.

http://xivdb.com/?item/7284/Weathered-Noct-Hoplon

http://i.imgur.com/TFXLLTd.png

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/

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Originally Posted by Lithera

What wep does Turn 7 drop? Turn 9 is the new Coil weps. Turn 7 is where you have the chance to get the Unidentified Allagan Tomestone to trade for a weathered wep but that also costs soldiery for tokens and I was under the impression the tomestone wasn't 100%. Even assuming the tomestone IS 100% it still means 8 weeks of work to get everyone 1 wep. This of course assumes your group has access to AND can clear Turn 7. Unless you suck royally at dodging, the gate for Levi access is a lot easier to pass through than the one to reach Turn 7. Producer himself responds to this issue with a very generous solution and still all people can do his complain...unbelievable...

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and that tomestone drops always. 100% of the time.

and technically it is four weeks if you have turn 8 down. turn 8 drops them too.

as for what yoshida has said...i'm okay with that.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

and that tomestone drops always. 100% of the time.

and technically it is four weeks if you have turn 8 down. turn 8 drops them too.

as for what yoshida has said...i'm okay with that.

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Turn 8 does not drop tomestones, only Turn 7 does.

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Originally Posted by ZoroRoro

What would be cool is if the mirror drop rate was influenced by how many people had the Wave weapon equipped or maybe even in inventory, something like (n+1) * drop rate. Can even put it in the weapon description - "This weapon when used against Leviathian is more likely to extract vital essences upon defeating him...etc, etc"

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Actually I like that, and it makes sense too

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

So.... anyone who's either no-lifed Levi EX or either got extremely lucky and got the Mirror drop and upgraded their respective shields already... gets a FREE Mirror?!

Sorry, but what BS is that?!

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U appear to have granite for a brain. Other classes get 100% of the stats from 1 item, we need 2 items to get the 100%. Its not fair. Yoshi has already said it wasnt supposed to be that way. Get over urself, people arent just whining to get hand outs. We are just asking for equality.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Turn 8 does not drop tomestones, only Turn 7 does.

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so it does. i have been wrong before.

guess i'm going to what i usually do when i am given options and gear alts.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

Thank you Yoshida-san!!! 大好きだあああああ！！！！ :o ♥♥♥

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^
This. Guys this is a thread about PLD/WHM getting royally screwed on their Tidal weapons by requiring two Mirrors. Create a thread to complain about mirror drop rate. The OP was answered, and a good dev solution is being put into place in 2.25. We don't know if drop rates will be changed in the future anyways, this dev response was in direct context of PLD/WHM requiring 2 mirrors.

So has there been any posts regarding what will happen to previous shields (i95) that haven't been upgraded? Am I going to have to farm for my shield all over again so I don't have to waste a mirror on it?

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Originally Posted by Lilianne

So has there been any posts regarding what will happen to previous shields (i95) that haven't been upgraded? Am I going to have to farm for my shield all over again so I don't have to waste a mirror on it?

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I asked the same question, the only logical thing is for it to be switched to the upgraded without giving us a mirror.

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Originally Posted by Traek

The OP was answered, and a good dev solution is being put into place in 2.25.

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Is it though? Now Paladin/White Mage can acquire (at 2.25 launch) 1/2 of their i100 weapon/shield without a mirror in the equation while everyone else has to have the mirror to acquire the same. The i100 shield will drop directly from Levi Ex. It seems now the equation is weighted in benefit of White Mage/Paladin. I don't say that as a complaint; simply a statement of fact. The problem ultimately boils down to drop rates. Using myself as an example, I have 31 Levi Ex kills and haven't SEEN a mirror much less lost a lot on one. SE needs to fix the problem, not band-aid it. I don't mind a grind, but 31 kills an no mirror drop is a bit excessive. SE, just my suggestion, a long grind with an end goal in sight (e.g., kill 25 levi ex times = weapon) is tolerable. Absurdly low RNG drop rate + lotto leads to ultimate frustration - ultimate frustration leads to an empty game.

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Originally Posted by Kiln

Is it though? Now Paladin/White Mage can acquire (at 2.25 launch) 1/2 of their i100 weapon/shield without a mirror in the equation while everyone else has to have the mirror to acquire the same. The i100 shield will drop directly from Levi Ex. It seems now the equation is weighted in benefit of White Mage/Paladin.

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Apparently you missed the part about the stats being divided between the two items (sword/staff and sheild) being on par statwise with the rest of the weapons. So handing a paladin an i100 shield when they only have a i95 levi weapon will still not equal another job with the i100 version of their weapon stat wise. Selective reading at it's best.

As far as relic weapons, I assume we'll see new upgrades for them come 2.3 as 2.3 will not have any new turns of coil but there will be CT. I sure hope they make the animus weapons turn into something come 2.3 to keep the player base entertained.

My guess is that i95 mirrors will still drop with a higher probability than the i100 one, otherwise they wouldn't say that the shield drop rate as a whole will go up slightly. This would also prevent a balance issue where PLD/WHM are handed an i100 item too easily.

So in order to upgrade your shield to i100, you will either have to keep farming until you get the i100 drop or you will have to get a second mirror.

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

My guess is that i95 mirrors will still drop with a higher probability than the i100 one.

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I was under the impression that 95 ones will no longer drop and only 100 ones will drop. Otherwise that defeats the entire purpose?

By the way in my 7 runs of Leviathan I saw both a mirror, a paladin shield and a white mage buckler.
So yea RNG etc.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

Selective reading at it's best.

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All classes except PLD/WHM + no mirror = i95 stats
PLD/WHM + no mirror = i95 weapon i100 shield = better stats then all other classes = equation weighted toward WHM/PLD

All other classes and mirror = i100 stats
PLD/WHM and mirror = i100 stats

What part is selective reading?

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Originally Posted by Aresaka

I asked the same question, the only logical thing is for it to be switched to the upgraded without giving us a mirror.

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Yeah this is what I am hoping, that the old shields are grandfathered in, but logical doesn't always win out sadly.

2.25 coming out earlier then expected, and Yoshida directly communicating with players about changes to ease things a bit. And... everyone starts crying and throwing a fit. What else is new?

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Originally Posted by Megido

Obviously it does, but its not like people are finding multiple mirrors a week.
T7 also has 100% droprate on weap.
You can call coil time gated, i call levi time wasted. And the system is exceptionally horrid as doing it solo in a pf your chance drops by another 8 times.

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This may shatter your concept of playing the game, but my FC kills Levi-EX for not only the loot, but for (here it comes) fun. You can also get a mount, tomes, and the fight is very quick.

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Originally Posted by Kiln

All classes except PLD/WHM + no mirror = i95 stats
PLD/WHM + no mirror = i95 weapon i100 shield = better stats then all other classes = equation weighted toward WHM/PLD

All other classes and mirror = i100 stats
PLD/WHM and mirror = i100 stats

What part is selective reading?

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If this encourages more WHMs and Paladins to farm Levi Ex it will make finding parties for a DPS like me much faster!
But in all seriousness, the stats on the shield are very little and it does force paladins/whms to work twice as hard to get 2 items while everyone else gets one.

Seems fair to me.