We need a response from Yoshi about the Atma quest.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Working as intended.

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I here what your saying but at the same time here is the bottom line. Where all paying customers a lot of those paying customers feel there not getting a service there paying for. Simply put they will move on (me included) if they dont get a resolution about said service. Wanna see what happens when suddenly a game loses players... Take a look at

Starwars the Old Republic
Rift

I was part of both community I heard the it cant happen the games fine then suddenly it wasnt.

This really goes for anyone on the forum saying its fine get over it. Sadly when people get over it and move on you guys will pay the ultimate price in less content and value.
World of Warcraft is the only game that has tons of wiggle room with there customers. That is only because there are so many of them.

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Originally Posted by hotroderx

I here what your saying but at the same time here is the bottom line. Where all paying customers a lot of those paying customers feel there not getting a service there paying for. Simply put they will move on (me included) if they dont get a resolution about said service.

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So you're saying that this one piece of content out of everything else in the game there is to do (that's eventually going to be made easier anyway) is a driving factor in whether or not you're going to continue playing or not? If this is the last straw then I'd say you were just looking for a reason to quit anyway. What is it with people expecting things to just be handed to them? You think you should just have the best of everything after a week a patch hits?

It only gets worse with the 13,500 myth you have to grind for the books and the challenges in the books. 5 hours sitting waiting for 1 fate to pop is NOT online entertainment.

So your answer, more of this crap to come.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

So you're saying that this one piece of content out of everything else in the game there is to do (that's eventually going to be made easier anyway) is a driving factor in whether or not you're going to continue playing or not? If this is the last straw then I'd say you were just looking for a reason to quit anyway. What is it with people expecting things to just be handed to them? You think you should just have the best of everything after a week a patch hits?

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increasing the drop rate on these isnt handing us jack squat, as all you get for grinding out 12 atmas is a weapon with the same stats as your bloody zenith, so is it really worth defending a flawed system that is going to cost se more customers and your going to watch FFXIV fail AGAIN

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Originally Posted by Orophin

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Thats a really really weak statement you make... This would be like you going to the grocery store for peanut butter... getting there they have no peanut butter you go back 3 or 4 more times that week still not peanut butter... you ask someone and there answer is we are a grocery store we sell more then peanut butter buy something else. You be very upset you decided you wanted peanut butter ... not grapes not oranges not jelly not cookies not hot dogs. Why should you have deviate your desires because the store does not have the product in stock. Instead you will go to another store who does. That concept can apply here I am not after other content I am after my Relic.

I personally don't mind the second part yeah sure you might have to wait in parts of the quest or even farm an awful lot but it does have a higher achievable rate than just RNG

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

They weren't talking about the Atma process, they were talking about the ENTIRE Zodiak upgrade system, in this case BOTH Atma and Animus. It's like this BY DESIGN so people don't get their animus within a few hours

Not only that but ever think of the reason beyond getting Atmas as to why you're in these areas grinding FATEs? It's to see the world and interact with newer players, which is also what the low level Duty Roulette was designed for. People not only have been complaining for something time consuming and/or rewarding to do, but also newer players complain about how dead zones are. Atma zones don't look that dead anymore. I remember leveling an alt character pre 2.2 and noticing some FATEs I had to solo, or would lose by timing out with NOBODY else in the area. that seems pretty dead to me

But then again people are going to complain about every little thing. Hell I'm no better, I'm complaining about all the people complaining... Go figure

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People aren't interacting with each other, they aren't talking, they are just mindlessly zerging from one fate to another. Fates are wiped out within a minute, you people talk about it gets us to interact with new people, and repopulates the new zones for ps4 players? Yea, sure it does, but do you think anyone is going to actually talk to them? Not likely, also the truly "NEW" players won't have mounts, they won't make it but to maybe 1 out of every 3 to 5 fates because they are having to run on foot.All they are going to see is a bunch of high lvl jerks killing all their quest mobs cause they are bored, and wiping out fates before they can participate ya fun times for all. I've lost count of the amount of hours I've lost to receive 0 atma, I got 1 atma on a fluke while mining a fate popped, I changed jobs and got it from a lvl 12 fate. Progression of a relic shouldn't be based around rng period.

I didn't read through all the previous posts, but I agree with a few that I did read. The way that people are grinding for Atma's is not adding anything to the game. It is making a lot of people annoyed, that is all it is accomplishing. There are people in my FC that got all their Atma's in 72 hours or less and there are some that haven't gotten any. I got my first Atma within 3 fates, my second 5 days later. I have gone on everyday and was grinding fates for I don't know how long and still have not gotten a third Atma. I just gave up. I mean the weapon you are getting isn't even the best available, that is the drop from the last coil, just like pre 2.2. I could see that if after all of this grinding that the weapon was "uber" compared to everything else but it isn't even that good. You would have a significantly better odds of getting a drop in turn 9 than getting one Atma, let alone 12. Then on top of that you need 13.5k myth tomes to get the full benefit from your relic weapon. That is just nuts. I could see if this was going to be the end all to be all weapon but we all know it isn't going to be. There are still multiple expansion packs, several level increases, etc. What is going to happen down the road with SE ups the level cap to 99 like in FFXI? Are we going to have to grind fates to get 100's of Atma's and then several million tomes (of what ever kind there is at that point)? If this is what we are going to see in the future as far as getting top gear, it might not be worth the effort. Especially when the difference in stats isn't all that much. For example, I play as Drg as my primary. I really enjoy it, but I don't see an huge benefit to grinding these fates for an item that has a relatively small increase over what I already have at ilvl90.

So
Zenith: Phys Dmg: 46, Delay: 3.12, DPS: 15.33, Strength: 31, Crit: 26, Acc:37

Animus: Phys Dmg: 49, Delay: 3.12, DPS: 16.33, Strength: 37, Acc: 40, Crit: 28

High Allagan: Phys Dmg: 53, Delay: 2.96, DPS: 17.67, Strength: 45, Det: 32, Crit: 32

It is obvious that the High Allagan is significantly better than the Animus, why waste the time for the Animus? It is pretty apparent from what we have seen so far that the Allagan gear is always going to be better than any of the relic gear. Why waste the time for the relic gear?

Just to add to what the last member said I understand the reasons why the devs have made it this way to slow progression for all the elites and maybe bring all the gaming community a little closer and more importantly not have all the new content all finished upon a few days of release. All very good reasons I agree but sadly it doesn't work the elites are somehow still getting through the atma farming and most are through many of their books. The only real way to slow progress is have on a time/cap which you obtain on a weekly basis but I guess people will still find a way to complain but at least with a weekly progression cap everyone has a chance to catch up.

I personally like this type of "grind" every now and then. with echo, you can get carried into your relic and with myth becoming easy to get you can get your zenith as well. so having this tedious grind helps slow down the relic progression. besides, there are alternative ways to progress your gear than this "grind".

who knows, when the continuation of the quest is released, the atma drops may be increased as well.

p.s. its only been 2 weeks since the patch... no need to rush everything

note to readers: I work a lot and am at 9/12 atmas. I only play ~5-6 hrs a day. 1 spend 1-3 hrs a day after work to attempt to farm them after I do my dailys. Casual Players can do this.

I personally find it hilarious that so many hardcore Legacy players were complaining about wanting ARR to be more like the days of 1.0 because they want the progression for gear to slow down and be more like the Darklight drops from 1.0, and then the Zodiac Weapons thing gets introduced, where the Atma thing is close to *identical* to the 1% Darklight drops from 1.0, and now all those people are complaining that it's taking too long and is too boring.

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

I personally find it hilarious that so many hardcore Legacy players were complaining about wanting ARR to be more like the days of 1.0 because they want the progression for gear to slow down and be more like the Darklight drops from 1.0, and then the Zodiac Weapons thing gets introduced, where the Atma thing is close to *identical* to the 1% Darklight drops from 1.0, and now all those people are complaining that it's taking too long and is too boring.

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Nope we didn't want this Candy land easy mode hand me gear lobby instance theme park. Darklight drop rates sucked but it was something implemented as the game was at its end. People are complaining because they been on easy street since ARR launch now they have to grind for something.... People that are obsessed with getting something will find anyway to get it whether they have to complain till their eyes bleed, scratch and claw their way to it. If you want it bad enough you will find a way to get it. Do I think the Atma grind is challenging/fun- no just another time sink to distract the players while SE makes more rehashed dungeons.

Like I said before I blame SE/Yoshi for making relics easy to get in the first place. They were not that easy to get in 1.0 only a few percent had them and usually only one. Now that most people have them its not like they want them sitting in inventory collecting dust. Why not just do the grind collect the next trophy so you can stand around waiting for the next round of rehashed dungeons in the near future. Please look forward to it.

ARR brought in the entitlement era.

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Originally Posted by Legacy_Wolfwood

note to readers: I work a lot and am at 9/12 atmas. I only play ~5-6 hrs a day. 1 spend 1-3 hrs a day after work to attempt to farm them after I do my dailys. Casual Players can do this.

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Well aren't you lucky. I do around the same, do a few hours each night. Getting to 50 hours or so of farming, but only 2/12 Atma. I haven't seen an Atma drop for 6 days now. The Leviathan fight is fun, and my static is going through the 2nd coil slowly, but the Relic is meant to be something that grows with you and stays relatively relevant through newer content, timelocking it by RNG means that a significant portion of the playerbase won't ever see it. Even if the drops do increase there will still be some very unlucky people.

I think the longer SE waits to address this the more players they lose... the game already on rocky ground with a crap 1.0 launch + server issues... the last thing they need is the community (even a very ticked off minority) taking to forums and crap telling people how the game has gone RNG.

I'm working on my ATMA I've got 5 in maybe 10 hours. If the ATMA weapon has the same stats as zenith it shouldn't rely on RNG. I haven't looked at book but they should make those difficult. Like beat Titan hard 3x in row or beat all three original extreme primals in a day

So, as promised I've come back after obtaining 12/12. My opinion has not changed. This quest is awful and to be honest it really put a dent in my enjoyment for this game. Say what you want about there being "alternatives" but the point is, this is a game and all aspects of it are meant to be entertaining, challenging, and/or interesting to some extent. This quest is none of those things. It's pure, simple, tedious grinding with a large luck aspect attached to it - that's it.

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

So, as promised I've come back after obtaining 12/12. My opinion has not changed. This quest is awful and to be honest it really put a dent in my enjoyment for this game. Say what you want about there being "alternatives" but the point is, this is a game and all aspects of it are meant to be entertaining, challenging, and/or interesting to some extent. This quest is none of those things. It's pure, simple, tedious grinding with a large luck aspect attached to it - that's it.

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couldn't agree more and wanna add the grinding is ok.. luck should not play a role in weapons or armor. Vanity and mounts sure luck is fine.. in fact luck is expected to a certain ext. I have also finished my atma and still oppose this system. I really hope this is not a direction SE is taking

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

Nope we didn't want this Candy land easy mode hand me gear lobby instance theme park. Darklight drop rates sucked but it was something implemented as the game was at its end. People are complaining because they been on easy street since ARR launch now they have to grind for something.... People that are obsessed with getting something will find anyway to get it whether they have to complain till their eyes bleed, scratch and claw their way to it. If you want it bad enough you will find a way to get it. Do I think the Atma grind is challenging/fun- no just another time sink to distract the players while SE makes more rehashed dungeons.

Like I said before I blame SE/Yoshi for making relics easy to get in the first place. They were not that easy to get in 1.0 only a few percent had them and usually only one. Now that most people have them its not like they want them sitting in inventory collecting dust. Why not just do the grind collect the next trophy so you can stand around waiting for the next round of rehashed dungeons in the near future. Please look forward to it.

ARR brought in the entitlement era.

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I really don't think you get what people are complaining about. They are not complaining about the grinding. They are complaining about the RNG. You are fighting RNG more than anything. There is no "light at the end of the tunnel" because no one knows when the tunnel ends. Like getting the 13500 mythology for the books, you know that as soon as you get the 13500 mythology you'll have all the books. What you don't know is x amount of Fates required to get Atma. It is completely random. Some people have been lucky and get the rather quickly like others (myself included) are not as lucky and spend hours/days getting them. I'd rather not fight RNG.

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Originally Posted by Pinkk

I really don't think you get what people are complaining about. They are not complaining about the grinding. They are complaining about the RNG. You are fighting RNG more than anything. There is no "light at the end of the tunnel" because no one knows when the tunnel ends. Like getting the 13500 mythology for the books, you know that as soon as you get the 13500 mythology you'll have all the books. What you don't know is x amount of Fates required to get Atma. It is completely random. Some people have been lucky and get the rather quickly like others (myself included) are not as lucky and spend hours/days getting them. I'd rather not fight RNG.

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Nah I get it really I do. Easy street to omg too much time I don't have time to play. Isn't that life itself? No one one knows when the tunnel ends.

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

Nah I get it really I do. Easy street to omg too much time I don't have time to play. Isn't that life itself? No one one knows when the tunnel ends.

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You still don't get it. When you play a game you expect a certain outcome at a certain point. Like you are guaranteed to get a drop if you beat Titan EX or you are guaranteed a weathered item if you spend x amount of Soldiery tokens etc, but there is no guaranteed that you'll get an atma item if you spend x amount of hours or do x amount of FATEs. They could make it super hard or super easy, I don't care as long as there is a clear goal of what a user needs to do to get the item not: "May the odds be ever in your favor" bull crap.

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Originally Posted by Pinkk

You still don't get it. When you play a game you expect a certain outcome at a certain point. Like you are guaranteed to get a drop if you beat Titan EX or you are guaranteed a weathered item if you spend x amount of Soldiery tokens etc, but there is no guaranteed that you'll get an atma item if you spend x amount of hours or do x amount of FATEs. They could make it super hard or super easy, I don't care as long as there is a clear goal of what a user needs to do to get the item not: "May the odds be ever in your favor" bull crap.

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There was never a guarantee in primal drops in 1.0 either, or tokens for that matter. Do you know how many fights I used to have to do just for a drop. Now that was some bs Rng. Like I said times have changed and ARR brought in the entitlement era. Fights are super easier now too. People seemed to be doing fine with the Atma drops. I will agree to disagree sorry.

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

There was never a guarantee in primal drops in 1.0 either, or tokens for that matter. Do you know how many fights I used to have to do just for a drop. Now that was some bs Rng. Like I said times have changed and ARR brought in the entitlement era. Fights are super easier now too. People seemed to be doing fine with the Atma drops. I will agree to disagree sorry.

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And exactly how many people where playing 1.0 and thought it was good?

I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by Razard

And exactly how many people where playing 1.0 and thought it was good?

I rest my case.

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1.0 the game has nothing to do with 1.0 relics.

People in this game do feel entitled and it's sad. This is supposed to be a long term goal.

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Originally Posted by Razard

And exactly how many people where playing 1.0 and thought it was good?

I rest my case.

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Rest your case.. I said nothing about how many people were playing 1.0 and would that matter? Congrats your first post I wish it could of been more epic for you.

I keep seeing people say its a long term goal yet no one has explained how random RNG is a long term goal what so ever? I stated it before RNG = Chaos you really cant control chaos sure you can shape it to a certain extent but not control it. There is no way SE can control how long it takes someone to get Atma drops. Its completely 100% possible for someone to go and get all 12 Atma in a hour (taking into account having to run to the fates and zone in). Its completely possible someone would work 24-7 for the next 365 days doing nothing but running fates and still not get all 12. How is that a long term goal to anything?

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Originally Posted by Jekyll

People in this game do feel entitled and it's sad. This is supposed to be a long term goal.

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If it's supposed to be a long term goal, then it is exceedingly poorly designed, since some people get all 12 Atmas in less than 12 hours. It's only a long term goal for people that happen to be unlucky, and that is what the problem is.

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Originally Posted by Zaygr

the Relic is meant to be something that grows with you and stays relatively relevant through newer content, timelocking it by RNG means that a significant portion of the playerbase won't ever see it. Even if the drops do increase there will still be some very unlucky people.

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its not even a month since its been introduced. Also 2.x+ is when the continuation will be released isn't going to be for another 2 1/2+ months. I'm sure more and more players will get it by then or shortly after then this entire "issue" will die down. I like how it is currently, especially when new 50s can get carried in primal hards and the chimera/hydra fights now with echo, daily roulette, and over geared help. They dont even have to worry about a Myth cap. Thats very very very easy relics..

This simply slows down the relic pace for now. when the continuation releases, it may do the same and make the atma progress very easier. who knows, Myth may go away and solid will be un capped and very easy to get and then the base of the relic will be too easy. But by that time, you can just get solid and get something better. Its progression. Slow the means to get the newest stuff and makes the older stuff readily obtainable. But I'm sure they will see it eventually.

All this complaining is just aimed to put high ilvl "bad" players into your DF with relics who don't know how to play their roles effectively that got carried and make people rage.

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

Conspiracy Theory? SE has it out for you? This the first MMO you've played with RNG factor? I don't get it. If you want it bad enough you will find a way to get it. What happened to people's testicle fortitude- that is what RNG I have been trying to figure out. SE puts on one curve ball quest since easy street launch and people freak out. That's like saying everyone is suppose to win a contest SE puts out. But no worries I am sure SE will find a "Echo Buff" nerf easy street for this also. And to think the look of a blade of grass had people griping. There are so many other things they need to focus on in this game. Chalk it up on the list. Poor design perhaps, working as intended yes. Time sink at its finest.

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.... not trying to be rude but your post has nothing to do with mine other then they share the same general topic.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

If it's supposed to be a long term goal, then it is exceedingly poorly designed, since some people get all 12 Atmas in less than 12 hours. It's only a long term goal for people that happen to be unlucky, and that is what the problem is.

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It's a percentage based drop. This isn't poorly designed. The same could be said about any dungeon drop in the game. Player X got it on his second try while player Y has gone in 50x's and not seen it. Is that broken? No, it's an MMO with normal RNG.

Sure the percentage is low, but not low enough to where it's impossible. I'm sure like all content, that it'll be nerfed in the future.

One thing is for certain, however; that the only way to get it is to go out there and grind it. If a person wants it bad enough, they will push until it's done, and once it is, they will feel accomplished.

today 8 hours = NO ATMA.
Honestly I think I'll quit soon cause this game is just a time sink. No fun. I'm honestly fed up.

Awe don't give up! It went slow for me at first too.

my first atma took me 45 hours of non stop FATEs to get

second was 4 hours

third was 4 hours

fourth was about 2 1/2 hours

fifth was another 22 hours

sixth was 4 hours

seventh was 1 hour

I work full time. I do not possess the time to grind for 40+ hours for ONE damn atma. Scrap the quest entirely, and remake it so it makes use of our level 50 characters

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Originally Posted by moudoka

I work full time. I do not possess the time to grind for 40+ hours for ONE damn atma. Scrap the quest entirely, and remake it so it makes use of our level 50 characters

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What if alternatively it's just content you can't do yet? It will get nerfed at some point allowing you to do it, isn't that fine?

I mean 40+ hours for a single Atma is a really high estimate. It's incredibly bad luck.

And should this luck be the outcome of a quest?

What are you talking about? Plenty of things are luck. You'd be lucky if you found a group that could do HM Titan for the original relic. You're lucky to find a static full of people you get along with, you're lucky if you see your drop, you're lucky if you win the roll for that drop. Hell, some might even say you're lucky to be maining a class that is ranged. You're lucky if someone gives you commendations, etc, etc, etc.

Honestly, I am curious if these forums have been infiltrated by some clandestine fatalist death cult. 'The Order of Certainty' is maybe what you'd all call yourself. What is the huge problem with something being RNG based, this isn't a raid attunement or anything like that, it really isn't locking you out of anything. What bothers you so much about luck?

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Originally Posted by Worm

You'd be lucky if you found a group that could do HM Titan for the original relic.

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This is both correct and wrong at the same time. Correct because at one instance, I had to be in a group that NEEDED 50% echo buff to kill Titan. Even then, it came down to
1. myself (MT)
2. 2 Dragoons that kept dying and getting revived by
3. A REALLY awesome Scholar that was able to keep reviving said Dragoons and still heal me post-heart phase

Titan HM should be a cakewalk with echo buffs. I got most of my relics pre-2.2. Didn't need the buff then, Monk one being my favourite because Monk just feels like such a beast in there. Now there SHOULD be no excuse as to why people are failing Titan HM but…

The statement being wrong, because there are people out there that just breeze through it. Hell, the last Garuda HM I did that went through without a death, we ended up killing her before she could even push to the center (eye of the storm) phase. Didn't even need LB either.

I don't pay to play a waiting game. Take out dumb RNG off relic upgrade quest and add numbers of fate required to obtain a drop would be great.

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Originally Posted by Worm

What if alternatively it's just content you can't do yet? It will get nerfed at some point allowing you to do it, isn't that fine?

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So, I should avoid playing until it is nerfed...which defeats the entire point of playing? Your logic makes very little sense. I'm to avoid the quest, wait for the eventual increase in drops, because the drop rate currently is so abysmal, that it is irritating throngs of people? I'm up to nearly a hundred fates, as time allows, and no drops. Even with a 1%-5% drop rate, I should, by mathmatical standards, have 1-5 atmas. Yet, in this game, when the rate appears to below 80%, that rate ends up being 5-10% at best. You see, I've tried this on my miner. If my rate of harvest is over 80%, I harvest 95% of the time. Which unto itself is a VERY flawed math problem. When it's 79% and lower, I harvest approximately 5-20% of the time. That makes no sense does it? This Atma is the same way.

The issue with Titan/Levi is that people don't know how to freaking dodge and constantly blame it on lag when they fail when in reality it comes to them either not knowing the fight or not paying attention to what is going on.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

So, I should avoid playing until it is nerfed...which defeats the entire point of playing? Your logic makes very little sense. I'm to avoid the quest, wait for the eventual increase in drops, because the drop rate currently is so abysmal, that it is irritating throngs of people?

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It's not the only thing to do in the game right now, so no you don't have to quit playing. Also yes if you can't do something then avoid it, you'll never see me on the basketball court. Throngs of people get irritated by EVERYTHING in MMOs, who cares? Everyone always thinks they're the majority while they're complaining on forums.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

Even with a 1%-5% drop rate, I should, by mathmatical standards, have 1-5 atmas.

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Maybe ATMA is so irritating to you because you think statistics is magic. Think about it for a second, if you roll a dice 6 times are you always going to get each number once? Of course not! Rolling a 6 sided die doesn't guarantee you one 6, nor does a 20 sided die guarantee you one 20, and a 100 sided die doesn't magically come up with that 100 on it's 100th roll.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

Yet, in this game, when the rate appears to below 80%, that rate ends up being 5-10% at best. You see, I've tried this on my miner. If my rate of harvest is over 80%, I harvest 95% of the time. Which unto itself is a VERY flawed math problem. When it's 79% and lower, I harvest approximately 5-20% of the time. That makes no sense does it? This Atma is the same way.

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You have a math problem alright. Actually given the multitude of "Turn 5 never drops Monk gear OMG" posts I've seen it seems like a lot of this community does.