Honestly, let SE make as much money as they can.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Have you considered just forwarding your paycheck to the company?

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No, I don't buy/care for vanity stuff. Matter of fact I never did it nor will I do it here. However, there are others who will, more power to them. Why would you care where their money is going?

Don't make this personal, other people finance is none of your business.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

No, I don't buy/care for vanity stuff. Matter of fact I never did it nor will I do it here. However, there are others who will, more power to them. Why would you care where their money is going?

Don't make this personal, other people finance is none of your business.

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I whole heartedly agree with Neo and what he posted in OP. People are severely overreacting to this. Even if all that people fear does come to passl; there isn't really anything people can do to stop it. May as well just move along and keep playing the game.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Why would you care where their money is going?

Don't make this personal, other people finance is none of your business.

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True, what other people do with their money isn't my business, but it does effect what SE believes they can get away with, which is my business.
I'm going to do my best to discourage major levels of cash shoppery. What they got now and their plans aren't too bad, but I'm keeping my eye open.

2 retainer, so much pay2win :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Gramul

What they got now and their plans aren't too bad, but I'm keeping my eye open.

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Pretty much sums a lot of things up; if they did deviate greatly put in items that remove lock outs in while keeping a paid model. I can see why people would be upset. However, until that time no big reason to worry. XD

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Originally Posted by RegnumMagik

2 retainer, so much pay2win :rolleyes:

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Lol i know right? Who knew you could send them off to beat twintania for you :D?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

True, what other people do with their money isn't my business, but it does effect what SE believes they can get away with, which is my business.
I'm going to do my best to discourage major levels of cash shoppery. What they got now and their plans aren't too bad, but I'm keeping my eye open.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvjIVSiOd-g

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Originally Posted by Gramul

True, what other people do with their money isn't my business, but it does effect what SE believes they can get away with, which is my business.
I'm going to do my best to discourage major levels of cash shoppery. What they got now and their plans aren't too bad, but I'm keeping my eye open.

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Good we agree on something. When they start selling something that does affect the game such as crafting mats then we burn the forums, until then it really does not matter :).

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

No, I don't buy/care for vanity stuff. Matter of fact I never did it nor will I do it here. However, there are others who will, more power to them. Why would you care where their money is going?

Don't make this personal, other people finance is none of your business.

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Because a vanity cash shop is a scam. SE already gives us "vanity" with events, new dungeon gear, and new crafting recipes. You're essentially telling them to lower the value of the subscription you're already paying because a vanity cash shop would be nothing more than SE taking out content they would normally give us in a update and charging people extra for it. People have some delusion that adding a vanity cash shop magically adds vanity items that they wouldn't already been getting in updates if they hadn't bent over to corporate greed.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvjIVSiOd-g

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Not really. It's basic economics.
Honestly, I'm being cautious at worst.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Good we agree on something. When they start selling something that does affect the game such as crafting mats then we burn the forums, until then it really does not matter :).

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Umm, they kind of do that with this. It would be like you can buy a pack of X materials each month, where x is how much 1 retainer can get max in that time.

It is also effecting crafters/gatherers/farmers, or anyone who puts up a lot of things on the market board.

Why I'm against things like these, is that they could make the game world so much more alive if they had these things in quests. Well, that and anything where you can buy things for your character with real world cash.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Because a vanity cash shop is a scam. SE already gives us "vanity" with events, new dungeon gear, and new crafting recipes. You're essentially telling them to lower the value of the subscription you're already paying because a vanity cash shop would be nothing more than SE taking out content they would normally give us in a update and charging people extra for it. People have some delusion that adding a vanity cash shop magically adds vanity items that they wouldn't already been getting in updates if they hadn't bent over to corporate greed.

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So let me get this straight. You go out to eat at lets say "QQ Burger".
You order a QQ Burger with a drink and fries. Total cost is $5.99
The cashier ask would like a lets say add a "Cookie" for .59 cents.

Cookie may be sweet but it was optional with the meal you purchased and in no way effects your QQ Burger meal. The .59 cookie has minimal profit with a bulk goes to resources for making the cookie.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Umm, they kind of do that with this. It would be like you can buy a pack of X materials each month, where x is how much 1 retainer can get max in that time.

It is also effecting crafters/gatherers/farmers, or anyone who puts up a lot of things on the market board.

Why I'm against things like these, is that they could make the game world so much more alive if they had these things in quests. Well, that and anything where you can buy things for your character with real world cash.

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Well like I said in an earlier post.
1. You still have to farm up the tokens to send your retainers off on a quest.
2. This isn't going to help the bads clear new content any better. This is why crafted gear isn't top-end gear.
3. Unless a person can farm the tokens while farming something that makes them money it will not be as efficient as farming.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Because a vanity cash shop is a scam. SE already gives us "vanity" with events, new dungeon gear, and new crafting recipes. You're essentially telling them to lower the value of the subscription you're already paying because a vanity cash shop would be nothing more than SE taking out content they would normally give us in a update and charging people extra for it. People have some delusion that adding a vanity cash shop magically adds vanity items that they wouldn't already been getting in updates if they hadn't bent over to corporate greed.

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So true. lol instead of getting it from an easy quest they most likely would of put it in, you get it for $4.95 at the cash shop store.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

So let me get this straight. You go out to eat at lets say "QQ Burger".
You order a QQ Burger with a drink and fries.
The cashier ask would like a lets say "Cookie" for .59 cents.

Cookie may be sweet but it was optional with the meal you purchased and in no way effects your QQ Burger meal. The .59 cookie has minimal profit with a bulk goes to resources for making the cookie.

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Why does everyone automatically go to food for videogame pricing metaphors?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Why does everyone automatically go to food for videogame pricing metaphors?

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Easier for small minded people to understand.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

So let me get this straight. You go out to eat at lets say "QQ Burger".
You order a QQ Burger with a drink and fries. Total cost is $5.99
The cashier ask would like a lets say add a "Cookie" for .59 cents.

Cookie may be sweet but it was optional with the meal you purchased and in no way effects your QQ Burger meal. The .59 cookie has minimal profit with a bulk goes to resources for making the cookie.

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Your metaphor makes no sense. They would have to actually be adding something to the game they otherwise wouldn't have added for your metaphor to make sense. A vanity cash shop is nothing more than a illusion of new content. Those vanity items they put in it aren't items they wouldn't of made if they never had a vanity cash shop. They're items that they were originally going to add to the game in a update, saw that there were suckers stupid enough to pay extra for something they were already getting for their monthly subscription, took it out of their planned content update and slapped a extra price tag on it and called it a "new vanity item". It's nothing more than a scam to take advantage of people that are more than willing to throw their money at things without thinking straight.

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Originally Posted by Beetle

Gotta love the double dip.
XI still better MMO XD. We only had 1 mount... hard to believe it was a Chocobo. Probably will be another 5 months until we start buying Mounts in this game.

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You apparently forgot the part where people had to pay for mules to store their gear in FFXI (not to mention that service fees were substantially more expensive in Euros than they are now with ARR).

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Originally Posted by Delsai

Easier for small minded people to understand.

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It's curious when the one without the critical mind as to discern when something is not being priced fairly, and that insults others' intelligence instead of being civil and act like an adult, says that.

Re-read what you say before clicking "Post", folks, and be nice.

Back to the topic, I don't think that people are against SE making money, or that they don't want to support the game and the dev team, or that they don't understand that SE is not a charity and needs to get profits to run all this. What we're saying is that it doesn't sit well for us to charge for X (being the retainers in this case) while saying that you charge that because you need to pay the costs of it, when you ask yourself "WTF?" after you compare the possible costs of said X -and what they charge for the rest of the service and the costs that it has when compared to X- with what they're really charging for it.

Making it short (and clearer x_x), maintaining the extra retainers and getting a good chunk of profits doesn't make the 2$ that they ask, so we see it as a simple money grabber and not as something really needed for the game. Then, we look around and we see that other MMOs (besides FFXI, another SE game) don't charge you for inventory space, and even those that do and that are actually F2P (so no sub to make up for the costs of maintaining the extra inventory spaces) charge for it just once. So, in the end, we ask ourselves why are we paying a sub at all.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

No, I don't buy/care for vanity stuff. Matter of fact I never did it nor will I do it here. However, there are others who will, more power to them. Why would you care where their money is going?

Don't make this personal, other people finance is none of your business.

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So because you don't care for "vanity stuff" I need to pay extra for it? I don't care to max my stats, can SE put a +9999 attack potions in their shop?

"Things that don't affect gameplay" is a broad term. What if part of my gameplay is vanity? Then it does affect my gameplay.

Saying "I want cash shop only for things I don't care about", is like saying you don't want to actually pay extra, because you're okay with a cash shop, as long as you don't want to buy anything from it. But you're okay with the cash shop having things other people want to buy from it.

That's pretty selfish.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

So because you don't care for "vanity stuff" I need to pay for it? I don't care to max my stats, can SE put a +9999 attack in their shop?

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This is why SE won't listen to the crying threads about this, lack of logic and people jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

Look at this:


◆Entry
　　　Subscription Period: 30 days
　　　Fee: $12.99
　　　Number of playable characters: 1 per World and up to 8 per service account


◆Standard
　　　Subscription Period: 30 days
　　　Fee: $14.99
　　　Number of playable characters: 8 per World and up to 40 per service account

Legacy: Super cheap w/ benefits of standard.

Now think about it, if someone wants more space... atm they have no choice but to make an alt, while the retainer service would remedy this. If people really want "free" extra retainers level an alt. >.>

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

You apparently forgot the part where people had to pay for mules to store their gear in FFXI (not to mention that service fees were substantially more expensive in Euros than they are now with ARR).

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They didn't have to. They could have done like me and used the delivery system to store 50+ items.

But the most important thing, S-E did not make extra character slots for the extra storage. They did it in case you wanted to play another character. I created an alt that I used to do when I didn't feel to play my main jobs.
I really hope you see the difference between a new character and more inventory slots plus venturing.

I imported the FFXI US version, and that one was not more expensive then this.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

This is why SE won't listen to the crying threads about this, lack of logic and people jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

Look at this:


◆Entry
　　　Subscription Period: 30 days
　　　Fee: $12.99
　　　Number of playable characters: 1 per World and up to 8 per service account


◆Standard
　　　Subscription Period: 30 days
　　　Fee: $14.99
　　　Number of playable characters: 8 per World and up to 40 per service account

Legacy: Super cheap w/ benefits of standard.

Now think about it, if someone wants more space... atm they have no choice but to make an alt, while the retainer service would remedy this. If people really want "free" extra retainers level an alt. >.>

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Not sure why you quote me, I am not talking about retainer, but a vanity cash shop which the OP suggested SE put.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

Not sure why you quote me, I am not talking about retainer, but a vanity cash shop which the OP suggested SE put.

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Wait so that fantasia potion everyone been asking for since the game came out is not vanity? Double standards much?

The two extra retainers are also vanity. Nothing much comes out if after all. As for me suggesting they add vanity gear or whatever, where did I say that or even mention it?

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Originally Posted by Razzle

Not sure why you quote me, I am not talking about retainer, but a vanity cash shop which the OP suggested SE put.

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Just happened to use you as an example. I highly doubt they would put in a true "vanity cash shop". If anything they would be like, you want this cool minion? Well you can only get it buy buying our $30 music cd :D! Want Noct's outfit from ff15? Buy the game for a code inside! However, they will sell that phantasia on mog station, believe it! (though this in a way makes a vanity shop)

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Wait so that fantasia potions everyone been asking for since the game came out is not vanity? Double standards much?

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It is vanity, and I don't support it being an extra fee. I support it being obtainable in game through rares or a very long and fun quest.

I am not sure where you got to conclusion I said Fantasia is not vanity.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Just happened to use you as an example.

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Still not sure how what you quoted connects with what you said but okay... lol

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Originally Posted by Razzle

It is vanity, and I don't support it being an extra fee. I support it being obtainable in game through rares or a very long and fun quest.

I am not sure where you got to conclusion I said Fantasia is not vanity.



Still not sure how what you quoted connects with what you said but okay... lol

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I'm just trying to show what you essentially just did. You put words in my mouth which I did not say or suggest, now your turn, words you did not say or suggest being used against you.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

I'm just trying to show what you just did. You put words in mouth which I did not say, now your turns, words you did not say.

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I'm lost... lol

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Originally Posted by Delsai

So let me get this straight. You go out to eat at lets say "QQ Burger".
You order a QQ Burger with a drink and fries. Total cost is $5.99
The cashier ask would like a lets say add a "Cookie" for .59 cents.

Cookie may be sweet but it was optional with the meal you purchased and in no way effects your QQ Burger meal. The .59 cookie has minimal profit with a bulk goes to resources for making the cookie.

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Really? $5.99 for burger and fries? How can you call that a quality burger? I can go to Five Guys and pay double the price for delicious, high quality burger, fries, and a drink of my choice.

I urge everyone not to go to this "QQ Burger" place for the foreseeable future, please.

Moving along, though I agreed to a TOS that lets S.E do w/e they want to the game, I believe it all comes down to a matter of principle.

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Originally Posted by Gextiv

Moving along, though I agreed to a TOS that lets S.E do w/e they want to the game, I believe it all comes down to a matter of principle.

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Of course SE will do whatever they want to the game in the end. But the desires of their customers may affect their choices, which is why they ask for our opinions and have this forum.

I have no issues with vanity shops as long as you know what you're buying. I HATE the gambling boxes with the fury and passion of a thousand suns. I would prefer that they do not sell clothes but I'm fine with mounts/minions.

I'll never understand why people are "fine" with being ripped off. You're already getting mounts, pets, and vanity items in content updates because of the subscription you're paying. Why would anyone in their right mind go "I'm already paying you for the content you're already giving me but you know what? I think I have too much money lingering in my wallet :D please take out some of the content you were already planning to give me and charge me extra for it."

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

I'll never understand why people are "fine" with being ripped off. You're already getting mounts, pets, and vanity items in content updates because of the subscription you're paying. Why would anyone in their right mind go "I'm already paying you for the content you're already giving me but you know what? I think I have too much money lingering in my wallet :D please take out some of the content you were already planning to give me and charge me extra for it."

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Who knows, maybe they wouldn't have added it unless they were going to get extra money for it? Perhaps it isn't in their development budget to allow for this and in order to provide the service a fee was required, otherwise there wouldn't have been time for them to add it. (Them devs gotta get paid too.)

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Originally Posted by Mardel

(Them devs gotta get paid too.)

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But they are getting paid.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Who knows, maybe they wouldn't have added it unless they were going to get extra money for it? Perhaps it isn't in their development budget to allow for this and in order to provide the service a fee was required in order to get it done. (Them devs gotta get paid too.)

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Except that isn't the case. Look at what they've been giving us. Vanity items for crossover events, seasonal events, and new crafting recipes in general on top of the dungeon gear and new mounts. That's more than other mmos usually give their subscribers. If they added a vanity cash shop all they'd do is instead of giving us that stuff in content updates like they already are they'd just take the vanity items and mounts out of their planned updates and slap a extra price tag on it.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

But they are getting paid.

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Yes but like all development projects they are given a set budget. They then have to manage the man hours in order to get the big things done. Everything created takes "X" amount of time and if they didn't have the budget to dedicate time to it, it doesn't get done. Thus they could have seen the market potential to add this feature people wished which allowed them to generate a cash flow to have a larger development budget for current/future FF14 projects.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Except that isn't the case. Look at what they've been giving us. Vanity items for crossover events, seasonal events, and new crafting recipes in general on top of the dungeon gear and new mounts. That's more than other mmos usually give their subscribers. If they added a vanity cash shop all they'd do is instead of giving us that stuff in content updates like they already are they'd just take the vanity items and mounts out of their planned updates and slap a extra price tag on it.

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True but just like my argument this is all based on an assumption. There is no proof that they would go the full vanity shop route, and just as my argument is hypothetical so is the argument that people have against the vanity shop completely. If they add it and it causes them to lose customers, so be it. However, as a customer there isn't much that can be done until it is all said and done. Their business decision will unfold regardless of the outcries against it.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Yes but like all development projects they are given a set budget. They then have to manage the man hours in order to get the big things done. Everything created takes "X" amount of time and if they didn't have the budget to dedicate time to it, it doesn't get done. Thus they could have seen the market potential to add this feature people wished which allowed them to generate a cash flow to have a larger development budget for current/future FF14 projects.

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So basically, as a game developer, I can just open a cash shop in my P2P game and claim every single thing in it was added because the subscriptions players pay me is not enough, and the players should be okay with that?

I would sure use the "lack of budget" excuse a lot... ( > . >

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Who knows, maybe they wouldn't have added it unless they were going to get extra money for it? Perhaps it isn't in their development budget to allow for this and in order to provide the service a fee was required, otherwise there wouldn't have been time for them to add it. (Them devs gotta get paid too.)

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In order to provide the service they require to charge the equivalent to the 15% of the sub for each retainer. I don't see it very logical, if that was the reason.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

In order to provide the service they require to charge the equivalent to the 15% of the sub for each retainer. I don't see it very logical, if that was the reason.

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It doesn't have to make much sense, many places charge odd administrative fee(s) on bills. Some places even charge a fee to send a bill. Plus since when has SE applied logic >.> or the internet for that matter. If there was a shred of logic most of the threads on forums would never exist XD

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Originally Posted by Mardel

It doesn't have to make much sense, many places charge odd administrative fee(s) on bills. Some places even charge a fee to send a bill. Plus since when has SE applied logic >.> or the internet for that matter. If there was a shred of logic most of the threads on forums would never exist XD

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And that's why we express our discomfort and give them our feedback. Hopefully they will listen, who knows, and it would benefit everyone (yes, even those willing to pay what they're asking).

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

And that's why we express our discomfort and give them our feedback. Hopefully they will listen, who knows, and it would benefit everyone (yes, even those willing to pay what they're asking).

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Thing is, they aren't assuming we want a vanity cash shop XD. Mog station was already suppose to be implemented to provide extra services for FF14, and like Yoshi said himself it takes drastic changes/planning to switch to a cash shop model. They are also even less likely to add one in when they can sell you something else and add a code for an "exclusive FF14 in-game item." Like they have with those minions.

"Welcome to the FINAL FANTASY XIV: Mog Station, the management page for all FINAL FANTASY XIV services!"