Ethics and Manners for FF14

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Originally Posted by Embers

I just get irritated by ignorance. I congratulate someone for a level up in /say as I run through a camp or guild and they are too rude to say /thankyou.

Good manners cost nothing >.>

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Ignorance is not a synonym for rude.

I firmly believe in karma so I try to save/help people when I can. In FFXI I know a 75 helped me
do my rank 4-1, limit break quests, and job quest fights. So after I dinged 75 and I saw a shout
for any of those I would offer to help as long as I wasnt involed in something. As for the
conversation thing, I saw someone with the same last name as my charector and waved to then
and they didnt reply back. Kind of a bummer.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

Appreciated! I also respect anyone who can just be kind for the sake of being kind... not because they expect something. Maybe that is whats wrong with our community? Too many people expecting something back for being kind... not enough people willing to be kind just to do it... but I don't honesty know... for the most party my community on my server is very nice.

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One of the biggest pitfalls we can fall into both in FFXIV and in real life, is when we place our own expectations of what is "right" onto other people.

Like you, it's not rare for me to be out gathering, see someone in trouble, and switch to Conjurer to heal and buff them. I try not to expect anything in return -- and even though people sometimes ignore me, I won't let it stop me from trying. A "thank you" or bow is a nice bonus. ^^

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Aren't you the one I had the long convo with on a thread, I believe so! You were very kind, I'd love to talk with you more! :D

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We exchanged a few messages in the "Despite its flaws, i like this game a lot" thread.

I'm not so active on this forum now, but I just followed you on the Lodestone. ^^

welcome to the internet

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Originally Posted by Rinoa

Yesterday I had a rather disturbing encounter with another player. I was crafting at the blacksmith guild, when a guy walked up to me. He was standing inside of my anvil. It was annoying and it broke my consintration, but I didn't mind so i continued crafting. after four minutes of him standing their, he turned towards me and inched forward. So their i was kneeling while making brass rings, staring strait at his crotch!!!!!! I used rapid synth to scrap the brass rings, And got out of their.
Either he was being immature and taking screenshots, or he was just to stupid to realize wear he was standing. I am not angry at him if it is the latter.
That little incident made me realize that the lodestone is missing a very important page. In the section "Playing with Others" their should be the page called "How to be Polite". Hear are some guidelines I think should be included.

1 It is rude to stand inside another character.

2 It is best to stay one arm-length away from anyone else, except for in crowded places
such as Aetheryte Crystals, Guilds, and Levequest counters.(sometimes players take some time to load, so its not as rude if you pop up inside of each other.)

3 If you are in a crowded place please walk, and do not run.

4 Always be polite to other players even if they are rude to you.


That is the only good guidelines that came to mind. What else should be added?

Hear are ones suggested by other players.

5 if you are healed or helped, a polite /bow is a good way to be nice. Who knows, maybe they will become a great friend.

6 translate your text if some players don't understand your language.

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1. who cares tell se to fix collision or shut up rofl.
2. then why did u post #1 its contradictory
3. do u eat rocks ? i personally dont need to move like a snail in a video game and take 15mins to walk across an imaginary town.
4. treat others and they would treat you. So if they are rude they can fly a kite as far as im concerned otherwise they will walk all over you or in your case stand inside u lol.
5. while it is nice to be thanked for helping others. dont beg for praise. People feeling they are entitled to a thank you and praise being "helpful" tend to sound rather selfish.
6. ya and learn to speak 10 other languages and always play in crappy windowed mode to decrease your play experience. Oh or wait i can always go to barnes and noble and buy 5 different travel companion english to..whatever language books #6 is moronic sir. And btw i speak japanese, english and understand quite a bit of spanish yet i dont feel that i need to cater too every single player base.

sorry but these mannerisms for the most are asinine. The only rules should be dont be a douchebag and dont ruin everyones behest.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

One of the biggest pitfalls we can fall into both in FFXIV and in real life, is when we place our own expectations of what is "right" onto other people.

Like you, it's not rare for me to be out gathering, see someone in trouble, and switch to Conjurer to heal and buff them. I try not to expect anything in return -- and even though people sometimes ignore me, I won't let it stop me from trying. A "thank you" or bow is a nice bonus. ^^


We exchanged a few messages in the "Despite its flaws, i like this game a lot" thread.

I'm not so active on this forum now, but I just followed you on the Lodestone. ^^

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I agree with you, not everyone thinks or feels the same way in situations and 'right' is different from person to person depending on how and where they were raised. Even two people who grew up next door to one another and were friends might end up with a different view on what is 'right'.

It's just nice to help people, regardless. I can't always do it depending on what I am doing, but if I can I always try too. :)


Woot, I 'followed' you on lodestone as well! :D

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Originally Posted by SAMINUS

Curious observation. Isn't it interesting how majority of all threads go so far off topic from the OP?

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Shh, this thread will soon become a thread about the Jump command~

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Could it be the servers? I normally heal people whenever I see their HP low, and I can safely say that 75% of them use some kind of emoticon to thank me, or some have actually typed in "Thank you".And most people say thank you or something after a party/behest.

Who knows. I'll continue to be polite, because that's better....and my parents trained me.

I'm totally looking forward to being able to jump over other players so I don't disturb their crafting!
That'll be like super thoughtful and polite of me, right? ;D

Rule #1:

Don't be a douche.

Done.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I'm not sure if you were agreeing with or diasgreeing but thats what Im saying. Some Xi players were nicer though, like no one in this game would stop to heal you if you were soloing and dying, but someone in XI would stop watch you, see how you're doing and throw a cure if they were appropriate class, maybe even /cheer if you won. But there were elitist assholes in xi, and there were people who were "ME ME ME ME" in xi, and those people switched over to XIV in the end, cause they couldn't handle not being the center of god damn attention lol.

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The "ME ME ME ME" mentality has been an issue in MMORPGs ever since the average player age began dropping; it's not really a problem unique to FFXI. However, there are games where it's not as noticable. For example, I've always found the commnuity in City of Heroes to be simply fantastic, and LotRO's community was quite possibly the best I've seen up until they went F2P.

For what it's worth, however, the community I've seen in-game is much more pleasant than what we see here on the official forums.

>.> shocked as to why no one reported the lolrulesaredumb people.

Anyway I hear ya OP i "left" ffxiv because NO ONE TALKS. I wish this community was like ffxi. Though not everyone is as nice, there are still nice players in ffxi.

Pay it farward. I help people because i was helped in the past.

@ the dude with the H name and roe picture

dude they meant the auto translate system. Which everyone used in ffxi. No need to get ya man panties in a twist.

But yes lodestone should have a etique tab they did for 11. And there is always the gm reporting if someone is being harassing (the crotch-shot if deemed not lag can be reported on)

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

The "ME ME ME ME" mentality has been an issue in MMORPGs ever since the average player age began dropping

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Not really true most meme people are adults from what I've seen. They feel things are owed to them for their hard work.

Age/maturity are not the same.

(sorry i hate when people blame kids for everything with immaturaty

2 It is best to stay one arm-length away from anyone else, except for in crowded places
such as Aetheryte Crystals, Guilds, and Levequest counters.(sometimes players take some time to load, so its not as rude if you pop up inside of each other.)

3 If you are in a crowded place please walk, and do not run.

These rules make no sense and tend to hurt your point. You seem to be taking things a tad too far in a game especially when 99% of people don't care about that stuff. Not trying to sling insults but it makes you sound pompous/pretentious as some other people have mentioned.

Maybe try to rethink your rules in a more practical manner rather than nitpicking and sounding like a stickler =/.

Rules:

1. Don't break the terms of use / EULA.

That's it. Other than that, your reputation on a server may carry with you, so act accordingly.

If there's something really nice to do in a game where you talk with others, it's helping each other.
My motto about this is:

Be nice and help other people,
and you'll be helped afterwards.

That's the way I live with people in the game and outside. It's a good start to build up friendship.

OP: Go play some game with RP servers.

And the only reason FFXI seems to have a more solid community is that you couldn't accomplish crap by yourself in that game. Complaining that you feel like this is a single player game = crying because you have no friends IRL. You don't get friends by going out friend-hunting, if you can't connect with others naturally you have bigger problems.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Not really true most meme people are adults from what I've seen. They feel things are owed to them for their hard work.

Age/maturity are not the same.

(sorry i hate when people blame kids for everything with immaturaty

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In my personal experience, there's a pretty substantial link. In my old WoW guild, 90% of our 'problem' members were in the 13-19 range. And one 40-something, but he was the exception, not the rule. I'm quite aware that age and maturity are two separate things, but saying there's no link between the two is far off the mark.

actually, there is an easy way to enforce etiquette in an mmo, you tell your friends about the asshats you come across and warn them to be weary of them, in time thier reputation, or should I say infamy becomes known well enough to the point where they either have to conform to rules of etiquette, or start a new character and a new identity on a new server, because no body will want to associate with them. Now unless they really don't give a damn about the time and effort they put into that character, they will have to conform if they want to participate in quests that require a party, something that is self-defeating when you are blacklisted.

Case in point: When I was playing FFXI, there were a few players on my server (Fairy/Sylph) who had that kind of infamy, (Poof DEFINITELY comes to mind) to the point where even new players knew to steer clear of them.

i personally have never been able to comprehend other peoples actions ruining someone elses gameplay.
if it were me, id have moved immediately, if he followed then id teleport away. end of story. once others start playing too then chances are hed rarely run into me again anyway.

now dont get me twisted, i dont do things like what the OP mentioned and i dont like when people do them to me.
but then again people spamming jump doesnt bother me, people cussing and telling crude jokes doesnt bother me, and people spamming emotes doesnt bother me.
if i have a problem with someone else ejoying themselves then i change my surroudings, if the problem persists then i take it up with the authorities.

all caps bothers me, gameplay that hinders my performance bothers me, and people thinking they can charge a buck and a half that should only cost a buck bothers me. oh and people who dont respond...... but then again thats all of FFXIV.

also, i noticed the average linkshell in FFXI had many social rules, such as no cussing... ever, to abide by which i found to be much much less frequent in other MMO "guilds"

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Not really true most meme people are adults from what I've seen. They feel things are owed to them for their hard work.

Age/maturity are not the same.

(sorry i hate when people blame kids for everything with immaturaty

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lol, you pretty much described my father there, 65, Vietnam Vet, has the attitude where he is holier than thou, and generally a total uncaring bastard to all because he thinks he is owed something. Yet he doesn't even have half the morality as he thinks he has.

So yeah, physical maturity does not equal mentally mature, nor does it guarantee that you're capable of rational thought.

Welcome to the internet, would you like a complimentary barf bag?

EDIT: Also I'm much nicer in-game. I cheer for everything, even completing synths (though I /shock or /cry when they fail). I also follow people around and heal/buff them during leves and behests (I CAN'T GET IN BUT I'LL STILL BE A TEAM PLAYER!) I don't really care if it's polite or if I get thanked, because following people is fun whether they like it or not >.>

Actually, those annoying people are sometimes what makes the game fun, even the rude ones. Most people do not respond at all, which is boring, as if the game isn't boring enough. Don't get mad, just get even. Sometimes, picking on somebody is like a cry for attention of someone kinda lonely. Think of Naruto, even though that is just anime, that does happen in real life.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Actually, those annoying people are sometimes what makes the game fun, even the rude ones. Most people do not respond at all, which is boring, as if the game isn't boring enough. Don't get mad, just get even. Sometimes, picking on somebody is like a cry for attention of someone kinda lonely. Think of Naruto, even though that is just anime, that does happen in real life.

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Hypnotizing people with the moon or carrying lightning in your hand?

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Hypnotizing people with the moon or carrying lightning in your hand?

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more like the trouble maker crying for attention by playing jokes making the day less boring. if they stoped nothing would happen. making the day boring and un eventful... like ff14 is now cuz no1 talks. Oh and rp servers tend to have THE worst communities. Saw a right wing extrmist rally in wow. talks of anti gay activists and anti pro choice. then today some jack ace made a graphic comment of doing something to me over a sever wide channel. a XXX rated comment. prob was 20 yrs old.

OK, I believe that Ive fixed the two problematic guidelines 2,3. But I could be wrong.

Do you guys think i Should add Wheaton's Law to the list?

one thing that kinda iritates me to no end is the recent spike in net idiot type. As if you was a gangsta rap raised in ghetto wanna be the.
lolcoolstory bro
inb4......
lolumad
we jelly << what the heck does that mean.

really i got ADD, really no need to type like your illiterate.
Sorry had a tiff with someone on WoW who talked like that. He was harrassing me with anti gay comments... >< aggrogent S.O.B.

Who ever started that stupid lingo really needs to be (insert evil deed here)
this was on an RP server he was griefing me and other person rp. Pretty much if people see two male blood elves talking, they think its a gay love moment. Really had 10 people crowd around me and this dude watching us rp.

(made my character look like sephiroth XD if only i was a death knight it would been a spitting image.) :P

Anyway pretty much if you gonna talk like some "home boy" no one should take you seriously. If ppl do it for a joke once in a while i do not mind. But constently doing that is annoying, and a bit immatur

as well as a bit childish. If you do not want to get harrassed or have people "bug" you, don't cause the trouble by being arrogent or rude to them. Simple. Saying lolumad bro makes you sound like an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

>.> shocked as to why no one reported the lolrulesaredumb people.

Anyway I hear ya OP i "left" ffxiv because NO ONE TALKS. I wish this community was like ffxi. Though not everyone is as nice, there are still nice players in ffxi.

Pay it farward. I help people because i was helped in the past.

@ the dude with the H name and roe picture

dude they meant the auto translate system. Which everyone used in ffxi. No need to get ya man panties in a twist.

But yes lodestone should have a etique tab they did for 11. And there is always the gm reporting if someone is being harassing (the crotch-shot if deemed not lag can be reported on)

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i wear boxer briefs and he edited his OP after the fact to state auto translate and still included google translate.... which is not a dependable avenue. I love his change " make sure to give other characters plenty of space and walk around them lol someone needs to get a reality check its a damn video game. I would like to add a new rule .


7. make a single file line at the leve counter and wait your turn and dont stand inside other players; if the line takes to long too move log out and return later to check and see if the AFK person has moved. If u log back in and are inside another player u must move to the back of the line or face punishment such as but not limited too having to play the game for more than 9hrs straight with nearly capped fatigue grinding on raptors.

If these things bother the OP so much to make this thread. How the hell do you survive in the real world.

"1 It is rude to stand inside another character"
That one made me laugh abit. I really think that mmo's are turning people into freaks.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

It's not just exclusive to FF11 these days, i don't think. I think more & more people are growing impatient OR we have more & more "casuals" (who likely "grew up") who don't have time to fart around so they prefer to get in & get out.
I've been seeing it for years, they get to a point and because they've made no bonds to the game they usually quit once they get XYZ gear or whatever.
To further this play-style & attitude analogy, i used to only go around helping people, but then it gets to a point where you don't even want to bother anymore because they'll probably just quit soon anyway.
These days i try to analyze & judge a persons play-style/attitude before i decide if i should help them.

It really is about the journey & the people you play with. Without it we're just barbarians.

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This. I usually blacklist anyone who sends me a message that isn't worshiping me, or if I see even a subtle form of retardation in /shout I just simply blacklist. I have my friends and I know what we're capable of... Should we ever break up (won't happen) and I need to find a new LS (won't happen) I will have absolutely zero beef w/ anyone on the server because everyone who could have possibly pissed me off was on my blacklist and completely unaware of it; thus my gear and ingame experience would speak for itself on whether or not I was qualified.

My friends and I are very organized and efficient irl, and we don't anticipate any mid-life crisis' in the next decade or so. Which is why if anyone remotely interupts my gameplay I don't even remember their name; I just simply blacklist, move on, and think about curing cancer, future content, and learning everything there is to know about Web Development.

The community is crap, and for the most part my server has downsyndrome. In 11 I probably followed every step in the OP's post... Now idgaf. I don't instigate or provoke. I just don't have time for BS or drama in a video game. And if someone annoys me, I don't second guess on whether they could be potentially a nice/smart/witty fellow after a few /tells, I just bl before I say something stupid like "stfu".

We both paid for the game, we both co-exist in game, I just don't acknowledge their existance. And they chose whether or not to acknowledge mine.

That being said, I'm not picky. And if you're in my LS you're more then welcome to annoy me and not get ignored. I wanted to point out I don't stand inside other players characters, I do say 'ty' (subtle, but after all they did take the time to congratulate me), and if someone is rude to me (Can't say this has ever happened because I use the /blacklist on a regular basis) they would just get blacklisted and/or made fun of on vent. But time is of the essence! And I don't like to waste it.

Lastly, I'm aware this route probably isn't the best method in terms of making the community a better place. I could be doing something like leading by example and helping others 24/7 and getting them gear, and giving away mats, and sharing every piece of info I have on the game to make everyone elses journey that much less of a hassle... But, as Tezz said there's so many (I'll use a better word) not hardcore players playing, it's completely in vein to try and help someone when realistically bringing someone closer to their goal so they use minimal effort is only going to make them quit playing sooner. I've done this, countless times. I've spent long hours preaching to friends that we should help more and more and more. We did, the results were disgusting. We must've gave out 50 Dodore Doublets to new randoms we let in the LS and they log on to afk about once biweekly because there is no content. I must've printed out essays on how to leve-fail properly and which leves to grab, threads on our site to sign up if you wanted to always be included regularly. Yet still, there were a few people who didn't understand why no one wanted to do Halaltali leves, or Gnats at BW. This was where I drew the line.

I don't go out of my way to improve others anymore, I go out of my way to make sure I can keep improving myself. Greed is not illegal, however it is a sin. But without greed, I would be bitching out people I don't know over the internet. I would be hateing on people who do things better then me because they didn't devote their attention to others and I did, for the sake of not being labeled greedy.

Oh yea, almost forgot... The definition of hardcore is not "asshat" or "elitist"... It's loyal. For anyone who misunderstood the definition and term I was using it in.

haha ^ this, loved it. I'm not usually this cynical but this is where cynicism is deserved. No reason to get upset no reason to start a fuss, if you're rude to me or my kin, bye bye. Blist them Blist them good.

I can only look forward to the day when blisting makes the char invisible to me, or when blisting extends to the forums *^_^*;... I can dream!

Maybe its just me, but why do you care where he was standing? Sure his characters crotch was in your face, but you'll probably never meet him again and also its just a game 0.o. He was probably just afk in my opinion.

I think the real question is: why were you doing your Armorer synths in the Blacksmith guild? Setting aside the obvious fact that the Armorer guild has much more space around the support NPC than the Blacksmith guild, the support buff lasts for an hour so there's no reason not to spread out if you want some personal space. If you're not comfortable with people standing on top of you or running through your character, then don't park your anvil in the middle of a busy area. You might also want to consider starting a character on Besaid, the unofficial RP server (assuming that community is still alive and well).

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Actually, those annoying people are sometimes what makes the game fun, even the rude ones. Most people do not respond at all, which is boring, as if the game isn't boring enough. Don't get mad, just get even. Sometimes, picking on somebody is like a cry for attention of someone kinda lonely. Think of Naruto, even though that is just anime, that does happen in real life.

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And just like real life, they're sad and annoying to deal with.

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Character : Rinoa Leonhart

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Drink a shot.

I think most of you who are complaining about the community either have no friends/aren't in an ls. 0.o

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

we jelly << what the heck does that mean.

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Jelly = Jealous.


Anyway, while manners are important, and not following an established, oftentimes unwritten, code of conduct within a community may alienate one from social resources within. However, trying to enforce some into said community may also serve the same result. While people running into you or through you may bother you, ultimately it only remains a pet peeve to you and few others. If, for example, you are synthing around a vendor they need to get to, should they stand around for what could be hours so you can finish? What if the person has a party that is waiting for them to go hunt? Wouldn't it be rude to keep their party waiting? Moreover, what's to keep the table from turning against you, and to say that you're the rude one for not getting out of this person's way?

Before you answer any of these, know that they barely fall into the category of ethics and morality. If you're kept up at night thinking about whether it's the ethical thing to bow to someone you meet, life's (and ingame's) more difficult issues will leave you a crying mess.

For example, lets say a man is convicted of a major crime, and is sentenced to life in prison. However, another man gives his lawyer a letter of confession, saying he is, in fact, the one who committed the crime the other man was wrongfully convicted of. He tells the lawyer that the letter is only to be revealed after his death. Say he dies 33 years later, that would mean the innocent man would have lost 33 years of his life for a crime he did not commit. So then, was the lawyer wrong for not revealing the letter sooner? I am willing to wager most of you would be surprised that many philosophies would support the lawyer withholding the letter until said death. From a business ethics standpoint, there is the whole client confidentiality thing. Or another would argue that the lawyer's purpose is to protect his client. What kind of lawyer would he be if he were to just hand over the person he was sworn to protect?

Or if you would prefer an ingame example, say you just healed or helped someone in trouble and expect a gesture of gratitude in return, but you get none. Are you right to be angry? Perhaps the player is new, and does not know how to navigate the horribly designed, unintuitive UI yet. You can't really fault someone for not knowing, especially how there are so few resources readily available to someone just starting (The guides and such, though very helpful, still require a bit of work to find; it ultimately does not reach most who would benefit from it). Another issue in this if your actions were through pure altruism, or were you doing it specifically to gain some sort of recognition or acclaim? Is it even unethical to seek such acclaim? Some argue that the results justify the means. Others claim that good intentions alone is good enough. Some feel that a good action must satisfy both good intentions and good results.

Confusing, huh? Well most of the time, an "Ethical" or "Moral" decision won't necessarily leave you with a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. They're mostly bittersweet.

Sorry about all that. It's been a while since I've had such a discussion with anyone, I'm feeling antsy :D

Dirty little secret about the internet. Its just like real life. Some people are good. Some are bad.

What more is there to say?

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

What more is there to say?

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Umm that all the players with decent online etiquette should form a LS or group up in general lol

I think your code of ethics here is total BS, sorry. But its hardly RUDE to not stand around and wait for everyone to load before you choose a place to stand, or to not take the quickest route to your destination just because someone else is standing in your way. I agree though that its rude to obstruct someone while they're synthing, but they ought to do like XI did when someone would stand in front of the camera while you fished; and just make them transparent so we can see our crafting through them.