Master Loot System

Master Lot lock was available in FFXI if i remember correct.

But, if they dont want that, they should add a new category.

"Want"

Need = Current job Priority.
Want = Level requirement Met Priority.
Greed = No requirement.

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

The more important loot system we are need currently are ability to TRADE gear for a short time after obtain (and before use), for when mistake are happen.

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^ Awesome idea. Mistakes do happen (I had 3, count 'em 3, loots accidentally taken by other people greeding/needing away from me in T2 when I was on my healer for enrage while I normally play MNK. No one did it on purposes, it was all reflexive).

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Originally Posted by therpgfanatic

So that guilds can use DKP systems during raiding.

Because in some guilds, loot is serious business and there needs to be someone in charge or all hell will break loose.

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After the mistakes mentioned above happened, I implemented a rule (as the pseudo-leader of my coil group) that no one is to lot on anything at all until I give a verbal thumbs up in vent. That way, I can look at the loot, and say: "I know Player_01 is our Tank for 1/4/5, but she's playing SCH right now, and the Allagan leggings dropped, but Player_02 is our other tank and has them already - everyone needs to hit Pass or leave the dungeon so that Player_01 gets their item."

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Originally Posted by HardcoreHolly

They should make it so that every chest has 1 piece of loot for each player, not 1 between everyone.

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Oh my god, no. Everyone would be i90 in like 2 weeks.

I always liked this option. To avoid abuse, possibly consider a unanimous vote to change it? That is, you get into a group, lot defaults to Need/Greed, you leader initiates a change, a vote window appears to all members as to whether or not the change is passed. This still doesn't stop leaders from necessarily saying, "OK, you agreed to it, now I'm just not going to give the 1 new guy anything," but I think it would help anyway.

If nothing else, please allow us to pass even if we lotted. This is something I suggest every thread about the loot system. It would help prevent silly mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Jonjon

The game tells you who rolled what on what in the chat log. Simply look at your chat window with the proper options enabled and you will see Player x rolled need 96 on Thing of awesomeness +3.

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Yea it tells you once the item falls to the person who won.

I would like to know who is lotting what prior to item dropping, just in case someone is being a loot whure and just greeding everything that drops. Would be particularly needed when picking up a Random as a fill in spot during Coil when a member can't attend.

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Quartermaster in FFXI was only really used for BCNM/KSNM or an individual Pop Set for NMs.

My experience from FFXI is, if you have a person who is casting lot on an item they weren't supposed to, and refused to pass, the Party Leader would just kick them from Party. But since you cannot see who is Casting Lot, or Passing items there is no protocol to prevent Ninja Lots.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

Actually no, because my point wad that because everyone could use everything, there's more incentive for the loot master to take all the loot and run.

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From one of my other posts..

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Originally Posted by FritoBandito

Also, it's possible the group leader could screw over the group, so it's best not to run with strangers who are using master loot. Master Loot should also be limited to preformed groups, and not an option for Duty Finder groups.

There is no perfect looting system, but this would be a nice option for honest groups.

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It works in other games. There's no reason it couldn't work in this one.

I was just about to make a thread suggesting just this.

We should have the option, when entering a dungeon with a full pre-made party, to be able to allow for a Quartermaster/Master Looter that is responsible for the distribution of the loot.

As a raid leader coming from WoW where it worked very well for us, and then coming to FFXIV where we've already had messy issues with people rolling Need and Greed when we've had agreements based on who gets what, is very frustrating.

There's no need for a master loot system here. If someone can need on an item, expect them to... Thier time is as valuable as yours.

In fact, master loot is only going to cause a larger problem. That impatient person in Party Finder (The one going GARUDA EX, EXP ONLY, 1 DEATH UR KICKED!!!) is going to master loot because he already has zero patience and doesnt want to run it more than he has to (thus the exp only) Therefor, cheating people out of a chance of the item they earned.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

because its easy for a player to say they will pass but then greed or need and screw someone over.

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It's even easier for the Loot Master to say they're going to give someone a specific item and then screw them over.

If people aren't trustworthy, no system is going to fix that.

I don't see much need for this.

If it's a PUG party, it won't be used.

If it's a FC party with a special loot system, it won't be needed. (Unless you can't trust yourt partners, in wich case you shoud either leave the FC or expel them)

Everyone keeps saying its not needed because its not fair or they will ninja. Adding masterlooter virtually eliminates that problem of that. BUT there needs to be a /roll command added with it also. Yea sure the master looter could "miss click" but when ur in a pug u have to worry about 7 rather then one. Plus if they do it on purpose, black list them and you will never join their parties plus they can never join yours.

why should they need to pass in the first place....master loot will just bring more problems then solutions, where friend of friend will get all and the rest nothing ever.

Where unknowns would never get anything..simply because people are all but fair espcially when given a tool that is not for children and immature people to use. The current one is perfectly fine people just need to grow up a bit, imagine with the currect system we already have lots of problems I cant even foresee what it could be with such a tool if implemented.

Aion had that kind of system...it was just horrible...

Mei

The way I see it. A master loot option could be usable BUT a) preformed parties only b) before starting a duty you have a tickbox that is set and that allows you to pick someone as the loot master c) that tickbox causes a message to all players with This group is using the master loot system with <person> as loot master do you agree y/n

But I would also echo what someone else posted at the start. Give us a chance to still pass if we click need or greed by accident outside that system - there's an annoying UI issue that you can by accident click the wrong button because of reset due to new item being added to the pool.

Master loot will be abused. Happened in WoW so much. I like the loot system as it is. Maybe add it but have people vote for or against it and for who will be the loot master. I'd rather it just not happen personally.

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

Basically the person who is decided to be master looter decides who gets the loot in a party.

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Ewww.. no ty, I'll pass.

It's in fact really simple.

8 people in Coil (example) Everyone fights their own, and you win. Loot comes.

There is Need button for some, greed for others (since it's not their classes that the drop category fell into)

Everyone can click Need. Those that click greed just in case the person in which the drop fits already has it.

That is already fair for everyone.

You want a specific loot? Get into the instance as the Class you want a piece of.

Not like: I'll go as Monk, but I need this Healer piece. No, no and no.

You want the Healer piece? Roll up your sleeves and get into your WHM/SCH.

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But but.. the Team needed a melee dps, as others only have one job maxed.

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Too lazy to get all your classes to 50? Ain't my problem.

If you have a Full FC party, be my guess, you can make whatever rules you want, and if everyone agrees, so be it.

DF PUGs? Good luck.

The only issues are from those that want a piece and aren't playing the proper class.

If you have 2 Tanks and Tank gear drops, the God of RNG hopefully will be by your side, else tough luck.

Even 2 days ago, ST run, Oil dropped. Everyone Need: FC mate rolled 91, and.. I got 92 >.< Felt bad, but that's how it is with RNG.

I don't need to be tagged with someone that will decide who takes what depending on his mood or if they have a specific application, to see who did the most DMG.

Everyone's in, everyone play their role (fumbling and having hiccups are part of the game) everyone can loot.

Working as intended.

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If you really insist on a solution:

Take greed out. Only Need. The Need button will appear only to those that have the same class as the drop.

Still, if there is 2 person with the same class (or more), some will still find ways to cry about how they lost to luck.

Never satisfied.

You all do realize that Master Looter is probably meant how its commonly implemented in other games, an OPTION the leader can change from the usual loot rules and its announced to the rest of the team members. This is almost exclusively used for guild/friend runs, specially those using DKP. In fact it probably should be completely disabled for DF groups or at best have a team vote confirmation popup when leader changes rules.

so you will have leaders that will use that function during a fight so that people will click fast as to remove the little box and click without really looking so that Leader gets all the rights and can do anything he wants....see my point....extreme ? NOT....Master loot is a bad bad bad bad bad bad bad idea...

Mei

This "issue" is completely overblown. Statics don't have this problem as they can easily pre-determine who gets what. 95% of the "I got ninja'ed" claims come from someone whining about losing some loot they never had a right to in the first place. This would get abused way too much. Need/greed isn't abused, either it is your class or it isn't. I always love that guy who doesn't get the roll for his job, then after the fight is over "Hey, I play that class too, plz greed"

The system isn't broke, high level groups can already implement this. If you can't trust the whole group, what makes you so sure you can trust the "leader"?

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

Basically the person who is decided to be master looter decides who gets the loot in a party.

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I see nothing but problems with this.

Wow, necro-thread.

Anyway, having more options for loot systems is a good thing, as long as there is a vote for change, similar to a vote for kicking a member from an instance. This can still cause tension, but it would mostly be used by pre-mades anyway.

Actually, all I really want 100% is to be able to Pass after you Need/Greed. There's no reason not to be able to; you should not be locked into that. Mistakes happen, misclicks, misunderstood rule, etc. You try to prevent them as best as you can, but shit happens. Being able to pass after a lot should be an option.

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Originally Posted by Fizzie

I see nothing but problems with this.

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As the only option, yes.

Being able to toggle, no. 1 person in charge can cause less room for error. Again, only as a choice unanimous with the PT would it be OK.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

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Except when I join a party as a Healer then get forced to DPS or Tank. Then healer gear drops and I have no chance at it since even if the healers pass, the others will probably greed. And they generally won't gree, much less pass just because I joined as a Healer and only switched because we needed the other role more.

Or when I join as a BLM but then our Healer or tank ditches and I have to leave, switch, and rejoin so that the party can keep going (and we passed) and then the BLM gear drops which should have been mine now goes to some bard.

This has happened multiple times.

Personally, I'd like to see a few modifications. Like the party can vote on a few alternative roll methods and if EVERYONE agrees, then it changes to that method.

Master Loot System
No Need (Greed only)
MVP System (MVP gets priority) (including buffs and secondary 'damage/heals/mitigations' but not including overkill values (ie. mantra could count for heals))
(No idea about the proper names of the below)
Weakest has priority. Example: Healer 1 has i70. Healer 2 has i90. An i80/i90 healer gear drops. Healer 1 then gets priority on the loot because they need it more. An i100 healer gear drops. Healer 1 gets a bonus to their roll (say +15) and victory if a tie because they need it more. An i60 item drops. Nobody gets any bonuses because nobody needs it on their current class-and no "need" button either.
Roll Block System. For every 'tier' of rarity, the player can't roll for that many times. So if say a green item drops, the player wouldn't be able to roll 2 times after if they roll. For a blue item, it would be 3 times. The reason for it being based on roll is so that people have to choose when to use their rolls. Obviously, if everyone rolls, then there is no penalty.
Round Robin System. Each player takes a turn receiving loot of a certain rarity or higher.

These would be additional systems
Shared Loot System (All players have a copy of the loot so they can choose to take it or not). This is generally for loot that is meant to be very common or loot that rarely shows up with only a very few select games having it as their main loot system). As an example: I get 8 diremite webs as a drop. That could've been split to 2 per player.
Need Want Greed system (Similar to what we have now, but with an extra tier (First is NEED the item, then Want the item (generally to use), then just being greedy (generally selling the item).
In-dungeon trading system (Essentially a system where any loot found in the dungeon can be traded between players while in the dungeon as long as it isn't 'bound' yet (example: equipping the item and using it in battle would make it bound)).
Participation system (If you didn't participate in the battle leading up to the loot, you don't get to roll)
Roll change system (In other words, change from need to greed to pass at will until the item is rolled (You'd keep the same roll except in the case of pass))

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The Master Loot System is useful because instead of risking a mistake (I've made mistakes before where I rolled Need when I MEANT to pass or greed or vice versa), you assign someone to do the job who can take their time and make sure they made the right decision. I will say though that any party with a non-preformed player should not be able to choose the master loot system because the system should really only be used by people who know each other.)

Currently, we have found a workaround for the passing after a roll, but it isn't a perfect workaround because the party needs to have realized that the mistake was made and act accordingly.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

This "issue" is completely overblown. Statics don't have this problem as they can easily pre-determine who gets what. 95% of the "I got ninja'ed" claims come from someone whining about losing some loot they never had a right to in the first place. This would get abused way too much. Need/greed isn't abused, either it is your class or it isn't. I always love that guy who doesn't get the roll for his job, then after the fight is over "Hey, I play that class too, plz greed"

The system isn't broke, high level groups can already implement this. If you can't trust the whole group, what makes you so sure you can trust the "leader"?

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If, for example, the leader is someone everyone in the party knows to be a very just player, they could delegate that player as the loot sorter.

Now, I don't mind the Need/Greed system too much except... Example: I'm looking for the healer boots for glamouring, someone else mentions that they need it to raise their healer's iLV. So I pass on them after having everyone agree to pass except for the one person. Then someone else greeds on the item.

I'd rather of have had some alternative system where we could've made sure that the person got the item. Like in-dungeon trading of the items. Then I could've rolled Need, the other healer could've rolled or passed, and then whoever got it could've given it to the person. Obviously this could work even with items that have the 1 week limit by making it so that the person can't accept the item if it would break their limit.

Master Loot system would've worked also.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

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Well said, 100% agree.

Yes please! I'll support any Master loot thread I see... It needs to be implemented.

Make it an option light/full parties formed on their own.

Some of you are so freaking paranoid, lol

"No, master looter is a horrible idea because when the planets align and there is a solar eclipse, I may get into a pre-made that'll try and set their friend as master looter to keep everything."

A) Like I said before, no one is saying to make that the only loot rule in the game, or even the default.
B) Ahole premades will be ahole premades, you should feel lucky to have the red flag pop up early in the run rather than be vote kicked right before the chest is looted. Most guild runs who pick up a few random players to fill a raid dont master loot anyway for obvious reasons, and those that do make it clear before even inviting.
C) I know SE has a knack for implementing features and ignorantly leaving loopholes open for abuse but those can be fixed and usually are grounds for reporting such abuse. Regardless, SE's temporary incompetence isnt a good reason to not add features available in many other MMOs without breaking those games. Specially alternate loot rules like master looter, round robin, FFA, etc.

This would be something nice to see. It would be good for FC's that use things like the DKP system for distributing loot to their players as reqards for participation and not just a reward cause you picked that class to use. All they would need is to have it implemented as a system that is only avaliable to use when you are in a fully premade party. Getting in a Pug where the leader changes it to master loot would lead to lots of issues.

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Originally Posted by ariaandkia

Except when I join a party as a Healer then get forced to DPS or Tank.

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Since you took the time to read me and answer, I'll do the same.

For now you lost me at: Being Forced to.

No one is forcing you to play a role. It's either you want to help, or not.

an FC which would force people to get into specific roles is as bad as this masterloot idea.

brb in a few after reading further.

Ok, if you don't take into account only the damage done, but all skills included, your idea of

MVP System (MVP gets priority) _ I would agree for the rare drops like Nightmare and such. Not on the standard loot.

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Need Want Greed system (Similar to what we have now, but with an extra tier (First is NEED the item, then Want the item (generally to use), then just being greedy (generally selling the item).

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This one will always make me laugh. Everyone will say they Need it (true or not) those that want it, might be well to sell or get GC credits.

Once you are done with the gear in this game, after one month its about overdue you get higher gear. so until they place the option to give it to another player that might need it... heck now with Desynth people need everything in the game.

Se could easily check our gear while going into an instance, and then activate the NEED button only if it's an upgrade on our current character. Else Greed for everyone.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

For now you lost me at: Being Forced to.

No one is forcing you to play a role. It's either you want to help, or not.

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people can't want to win and want to be compensated for their time?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

people can't want to win and want to be compensated for their time?

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Of course they can o.O seems you don't get my point.

If you only have one job, that is your choice. Tell me why should I be penalized for it and not playing the job I want and that I have to switch?

If it's really so, you better agree if the drop that I was looking for gets in, that you will pass and let me have a roll at it.

It all comes down to communication, and FC, LS PF resolve this issue.

Can't say about DF, the which you might never see that person again, although you can report him/her.

So I still stand first by: you get in as the Job you want to loot Need.

Should I cry since I've unlocked all classes, that a piece for BLM would be there and I can't need it bec I tank? Nope, it's fair enough, the drop 'might' have been for the job I'm playing, I just wasn't lucky this time.

If the game was like you can only play one class per character, no one would complain because you go into the instance exactly as the job you want to play. So when gear drops that you cannot use currently, people wouldn't whine.

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Originally Posted by Kayo

you should feel lucky to have the red flag pop up early in the run rather than be vote kicked right before the chest is looted.

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That is very bad behavior T_T - sad but I guess it happens, what a virtual world we live in..

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Originally Posted by Kayo

I know SE has a knack for implementing features and ignorantly leaving loopholes open for abuse.

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100% agreed.

I'm not much for master loot.

It doesn't matter if you can toggle master loot on or off. The master loot system isn't the one that screws you over, its the person who can toggle it on and off.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

If you only have one job, that is your choice. Tell me why should I be penalized for it and not playing the job I want and that I have to switch?

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it's not a penalty if the system supports it.

my SCH and BRD are both i100+ both have i110 necklaces. i would like to get a Mog necklace for my BLM, why do you want to gimp the party and make me come on BLM? why do you want the party to do less DPS, why do you want to invite a random healer that can't Esuna/Leech properly?

why would you not support a system that lets us win 6/6 and get 6 drops and instead prefer going 4/4 with slower fights or go 3/8 and get less items?

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Originally Posted by Xystic

It doesn't matter if you can toggle master loot on or off. The master loot system isn't the one that screws you over, its the person who can toggle it on and off.

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it's an odds game, trust 1 person vs trusting 7.

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Originally Posted by Siobahn

This is a system I would really like to see implemented. I'm not going to claim that it will end loot disputes, etc, but it would be a convenient feature nonetheless.

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This is a system with the potential to be abused like crazy, and I've seen it abused like crazy many times before. Things are fine the way they are, and a heck of a lot better than they could be if they implemented something like this. No changes are needed or necessary. Seriously man, you have no idea the sheer amount of whining and drama you would unleash upon Eorzea if this change were to be made to the game. Take it from someone who has run endgaming guilds in other games. Things are far better off the way they are.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

I'm not much for master loot.

It doesn't matter if you can toggle master loot on or off. The master loot system isn't the one that screws you over, its the person who can toggle it on and off.

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Right, so leave it up to the group to vote (I mean actually vote, like kicking a member, not "I say yes").

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's not a penalty if the system supports it.

my SCH and BRD are both i100+ both have i110 necklaces. i would like to get a Mog necklace for my BLM, why do you want to gimp the party and make me come on BLM? why do you want the party to do less DPS, why do you want to invite a random healer that can't Esuna/Leech properly?

why would you not support a system that lets us win 6/6 and get 6 drops and instead prefer going 4/4 with slower fights or go 3/8 and get less items?



it's an odds game, trust 1 person vs trusting 7.

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Exactly this. I trust myself, a Few FC mates. And I'm all in for slower fights, as I hate Speed runs.

Your point of gimping is true to that extent though. That's why I'll say it again: if you get into one instance with everyone that you know, then agree on loot, no point for the masterloot system, cause everyone will play 'fair'.

So you want that loot for BLM? Sure, if I'm with you and all agree, it's yours to take if it drops ^^

As OP mentionned, if it's something like an option and SE agrees, all good.

So far, with issues already in the game, I see no point bringing another system that might confuse some people even after reading it and still rage/report/make trouble.

Everyone knows you have to dodge at Titan. Everyone knows the rules.. yet..

Everyone knows you can't use 3rd app, buying Gil or bot system.. yet.. (you can trust Humans to play fair lol)

Giving power to one human behind a keyboard, unless all agree, and he goes into a powertrip, like a Judge in real life that had a bad day cause his wife didn't give him what he wanted.. I wish you won't be judged at his court on the same day ;)

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Originally Posted by Marael

This is a system with the potential to be abused like crazy, and I've seen it abused like crazy many times before. Things are fine the way they are, and a heck of a lot better than they could be if they implemented something like this. No changes are needed or necessary. Seriously man, you have no idea the sheer amount of whining and drama you would unleash upon Eorzea if this change were to be made to the game. Take it from someone who has run endgaming guilds in other games. Things are far better off the way they are.

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With many years of gaming, I'm in the same boat, so thank you.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

Right, so leave it up to the group to vote (I mean actually vote, like kicking a member, not "I say yes").

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It doesn't solve the issue of a party of 3 voting against 1 person in party finder or a party of 5 voting against a party of 3 in CT or ST.

A FC also should not be voting to have Master loot either.