Gear Progression after 2.2

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Originally Posted by Ptolemy

like GW2? it has much much much more temporary content then XIV


I want a game filled with dungeons & storylines that can be done a year later & still be relevant, I want a game to ADD content, not take it away during a EXPANSION or make it irrelevant in a single patch

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Please define "relevant".

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

Useless as in its not the top any more. It's just throw away gear (Even though all gear until you reach the highest level the game is going to go is throw away gear) use it to get the next best set and then don't use it again.

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This is a problem how? Didn't know we'll get the best gear in 2.2 on day one.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

ARR is almost following WoW verbatim. WoW had major content patches every 6 months or so and the item level of the gear in the dungeons/raids were raised in tandem. We'll have had access to i90 for about 7 months as 2.2 hits. Once the expansion comes there'll be a level cap raise, same as WoW.

Anyway, to the OP, this is how vertical progression theme park games work. Now you can spend that $45 collecting the new ilvl gear. Or don't. The choice is yours.

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Also what the hell does this even mean? Hmm... You go to theme parks to have fun, are you saying video games are meant to have fun?

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/...youdontsay.jpg

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Originally Posted by Fayto

Also what the hell does this even mean? Hmm... You go to theme parks to have fun, are you saying video games are meant to have fun?

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Themepark MMO, where the dungeons and instances function as the 'rides'.

The opposite is the Sandbox MMO, where players create their own (usually rubbish but sometimes incredible) rides.

The general problem being with Themepark MMO's is that players can visit all the attractions before the developers can make more. In theory this patch will make this problem even worse than usual by making several older 'rides' less relevant.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Themepark MMO, where the dungeons and instances function as the 'rides'.

The opposite is the Sandbox MMO, where players create their own (usually rubbish but sometimes incredible) rides.

The general problem being with Themepark MMO's is that players can visit all the attractions before the developers can make more. In theory this patch will make this problem even worse than usual by making several older 'rides' less relevant.

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"True" sandbox games are more than what most of the people defining themselves "hardcore" (and bashing on theme park MMOs) could handle.

Try EVE Online: fully player-driven, completely sandbox, and horizontal progression.
Of course, being fully player-driven means it's also the most harsh, cruel and trollish gaming environment currently in existence.

Good luck :P

I never understood this complaint. Aren't ALL RPGs built upon vertical progression? Getting that next piece of gear to upgrade to from your starter is what RPGs have always been about. From Elder Scrolls to Final Fantasy, this has been true of all RPGs. Maybe you should play a FPS instead of an RPG if you don't want gear upgrades to matter.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

I never understood this complaint. Aren't ALL RPGs built upon vertical progression?

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Pre-Abyssea FFXI was a MMORPG with horizontal gear progression (in addition to vertical progression). New content added new gear which was wanted for alternative sets and to replace old pieces but new endgame didn't make old irrelevant: new content meant more things to do instead of ending doing content A and moving on to content B. The system worked mostly because 1. all important gear took ages to get and 2. all classes needed several gear sets because of gearswap system.

If the developers are smart they can have vertical gear progression without old content becoming irrelephant.

Future content just needs to be more like CoP/ToAU endgame gear; rather than doing content for a piece of gear, you do content to get several drops, to eventually get the gear. That is what I think the game needs more of... Limbus and Salvage were great. Arguably content is already like that, but it's far too simplified; For Limbus you did several zones to finally challenge a boss, for Coil you do Turns 1~4 to finally challenge Turn 5. For Salvage you did several zones for drops which you trade for armor, for Tomestones you do several dungeons for Tomestones to trade for gear. Difference is, Limbus let you challenge zones in pretty much any order, and the zones themselves were much better than Coil 1~4. For Salvage, you had to do this zone for this drop, then that zone, and so on, then you take all those drops to get the gear. For Philosophy/Mythology you just spam whichever zone is easiest to farm tomestones and trade them for gear.

Guess that goes against the theme park mentality though, who'd want to jump through engaging hoops when they can just wait in line? Sigh...

Main thing I think they should do with the upcoming Allagan Tomestones of Newness is have them turned in for an upgrade item (like the Relic Zenith item). Trade that to a NPC with a piece of Mythology gear gives you Newness gear, if they're really smart they throw a mini-quest ontop of that, rather than just "Trade to Furnace"... Either way, if provides a reason to obtain the old gear, even though new gear is available.

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Originally Posted by Hik0

WP 100 philo/15 min. 90min=600 philo.

Myth gear in 2.2 will be what philo gear is in 2.0/2.1 => will take longer to full myth gear in 2.2 than it is to full DL now

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I've sort of assumed with the new tomestones that it would be similar to how it is now with Myth replacing Philo as the larger currency and the new Allagan(?) being what myth is now where you get 30-50 per run. Meaning it would be something like 100 myth/30 allagan per dungeon run in Ruins of Amdapor/Halatali HM/Brayflox HM unless they're planning to keep the new HM around the difficult of Copperbell and not giving allagan tomestones there.

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Originally Posted by Taika

Pre-Abyssea FFXI was a MMORPG with horizontal gear progression (in addition to vertical progression). New content added new gear which was wanted for alternative sets and to replace old pieces but new endgame didn't make old irrelevant: new content meant more things to do instead of ending doing content A and moving on to content B. The system worked mostly because 1. all important gear took ages to get and 2. all classes needed several gear sets because of gearswap system.

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Horizontal progression was an unhappy accident of gear swapping.

You min/maxed and created a gear set for each and nearly every ability. The content lent itself to this style of play initially and eventually content development centered around it. If you had to wear a single set of gear for the duration of an engagement much of FFXI's "content" would have been nullified to "which build is best now?" - it contributed to several of the games more annoying and obvious issues. Primarily the lack of inventory space - especially as the player base established 8+ BiS sets for X actions on Y class, and there were 23 classes.

It was still a constant gear grind that never truly ended - just old things were kept unnecessarily relevant because of a developer oversight - haw. People just don't like the idea of throwing away old stuff in FFXIV - even though its a natural enough habit in human society; example -> Cellphones, Vehicles, Computers, Gaming Systems, and other technology. We upgrade - new stuff comes out, and we move on.

You rapidly couldn't play once you were established at endgame with multiple Jobs without spending a majority of your time muling, sorting, and shuffling gear around - unless you deigned to play only one or two Jobs.

Abyssea threw all of this out the window. After years of gather all that gear much of it was simply worthless. Which I think put the final nail in the coffin for a lot of players.

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Originally Posted by Fayto

This is a problem how? Didn't know we'll get the best gear in 2.2 on day one.

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Its like people just quote ready to argue without even readying previous comments. Go read my previous comment.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

You have basically summed up the difference between vertical progression and horizontal progression. And to answer your question "is this going to happen every 3-6 months"... Yes.

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Every 6 months, not every 3 months.
there would be no big ilevel cap increase in 2.3
Maybe around max. 5 level, like in 2.1

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

I dont think OP is saying he wants his gear to be the best for ever, or that he wants everyone to have to struggle like he did forever. I think his problem is that they are making it useless so fast. Other mmos usually don't make it where it takes months to get the gear due to some casual token system AND THEN make it obsolete with every patch, not expansion.

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What's the alternative? Make it impossible for new players (PS4/Steam) to ever catch up? Would you suggest we make this FFXI 2.0 where it took 7 months to get to level cap. SE wants this game to be relevant for new comers and veterans alike. If you are a progression guild, your benefit is that you get the best gear FIRST and tackle the content first. When 2.2 rolls around and you're in i90 because you've already beat Twintania, you will tackle Coil 6-9 first and get the best gear AGAIN.... FIRST. Everyone else that wants to catch up will still have to do myth grind parties, while you're already on turn 8.


This is a great system. The hardcore players will always be ahead by nature of the definition "Hardcore." Just because you spent 2 months farming coil in advance of everyone else doesn't mean you're entitled ot your i90 status for the next 2 years. The 6 month cycle is perfect. Just enough to time to differentiate between hardcore and casual, and enough time to allow new commers to become veterans and "caught up" within that span of time.

And before I get flamed, I currently have i87 Warrior and i86 Scholar. I beat Ifrit Extreme and Titan Extreme for the FIRST time last week. My coil is currently trying to beat Twintania. I am far from hardcore and this system fits me, and many others perfectly. We are hoping to have Twintania down before 2.2, but we'll still be behind those groups that have had Twintania on farm and can get a headstart on 6-9. My biggest worry is that if the content patches are too fast, the more casual players can never catch up. Because we know CT will be casual in 2.3 based on YoshiP's latest interviews, that works perfectly for keeping this game at a 6 month cycle for raid progression.

Please look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by Zell

What's the alternative? Make it impossible for new players (PS4/Steam) to ever catch up?

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I stopped reading right there. Because apparently reading is too hard for these forums and it needs to be nerfed to make it more "casual"

You're asking the wrong person you should probably direct your questions to the OP, I don't play this game anymore because it's way to easy. So I personally don't care about the gear system right now. All I did was state how OP and others (based on talking to them) might feel. Since they really are replacing gear within 3-6 months after making it take 3-6 months to be able to get the gear in the first place. It doesn't have to be forever. (You'd know that if you actually read the post you quoted) I think OP and others like him just don't want it replaced as soon as they get it.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

I stopped reading right there. Because apparently reading is too hard for these forums and it needs to be nerfed to make it more "casual"

You're asking the wrong person you should probably direct your questions to the OP, I don't play this game anymore because it's way to easy. So I personally don't care about the gear system right now. All I did was state how OP and others (based on talking to them) might feel. Since they really are replacing gear within 3-6 months after making it take 3-6 months to be able to get the gear in the first place. It doesn't have to be forever. (You'd know that if you actually read the post you quoted) I think OP and others like him just don't want it replaced as soon as they get it.

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It's 6 months. Not 3 months. The distinction makes a wold of difference. If the gear becomes outdated every 3 months, I would agree that it's too fast because that doesn't give many people enough time to get the gear... but 6 months is a great compromise for hardcore and casual alike.

The reason it's 6 months is because the Cap at release was 90-95. The cap, after 6 months will be much higher. The cap will not be raised in 2.3. I think expecting your gear to remain the BEST for more than 6 months is unreasonable and reeks of elitism. But that's just me. I especially find it unreasonable given that he hasn't played the game for months and STILL expects his gear to be the best when he returns.

The 6 month cycle is a great balance. Otherwise, you make it impossible for new players to ever reach end game unless they get carried by other i90s.

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Originally Posted by Zell

The 6 month cycle is a great balance.

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But it TAKES 6 months to get it due to lockouts and token systems. Do you see the problem? So it's literally like as soon as they get it.
You say people wont be able to catch up. I don't know of any mmos that have this problem and I've played A LOT. I'm currently on Aion, it's been out for 4 years. I just started, I'm at end game, with end game pve and pvp gear.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

But it TAKES 6 months to get it due to lockouts and token systems. Do you see the problem? So it's literally like as soon as they get it.
You say people wont be able to catch up. I don't know of any mmos that have this problem and I've played A LOT. I'm currently on Aion, it's been out for 4 years. I just started, I'm at end game, with end game pve and pvp gear.

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You're overexaggerating. I've been i90 on one job since before 2.1 as a fresh character, and if the game is as easy as you claim it to be you would have been too. Now if you're claiming BiS for 6 months that's another story, but between getting lucky with Coil drops and getting Myth gear, it's absolutely possible to have been i90 before the first patch.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

You're overexaggerating. I've been i90 on one job since before 2.1 as a fresh character, and if the game is as easy as you claim it to be you would have been too. Now if you're claiming BiS for 6 months that's another story, but between getting lucky with Coil drops and getting Myth gear, it's absolutely possible to have been i90 before the first patch.

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Quoted for truth.

I am il90 WAR and il90 PLD and I only have 2 tanking pieces from Coil... it's not like I needed to be il90 to do all the content either...

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Originally Posted by Orophin

You're overexaggerating. I've been i90 on one job since before 2.1 as a fresh character, and if the game is as easy as you claim it to be you would have been too. Now if you're claiming BiS for 6 months that's another story, but between getting lucky with Coil drops and getting Myth gear, it's absolutely possible to have been i90 before the first patch.

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Not entirely. The rng with coil+lock out and then the myth cap. My bf has been playing since early access he still isn't full i90. There was even a thread that did the math stating it would take around 5-6 months before you got all myth pieces, then if you miss a week or two you're sol. Coil is another story and depends on luck. I've been seeing nothing but tank gear, I'm a healer. I know people who see nothing but healer gear. Rng is rng. If it didnt take aslong as you claimed I would see more full i90s running around. I don't unless they are 1.0 chars. Also rng has nothing to do with the level difficulty of the game ._.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

But it TAKES 6 months to get it due to lockouts and token systems. Do you see the problem? So it's literally like as soon as they get it.
You say people wont be able to catch up. I don't know of any mmos that have this problem and I've played A LOT. I'm currently on Aion, it's been out for 4 years. I just started, I'm at end game, with end game pve and pvp gear.

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Please calculate the number of Myths you need to take one character to i90, including Relic+1.... it's around 5500 mythology tomes. Are people really afraid that removing the myth cap allows casuals to get i90 gear in such a short amount of time as to devalue the road they had to take? Here's some perspective.... the casual player, by definition either does not have the time, or does not spend 5 hours a day playing FFXIV. A hardcore player may be able to get full i90 set on a job in 2-3 days of grinding dungeons for 8 hours a day. It will likely take the casual players weeks to get the same. There is great balance in this game by having two ways ot get i90 gear. You raid, or you grind tomes. The hardcore player can do both where as the casual player may not have access to coil and will have to rely on tomes. Regardless, what is available to the casual, is available to the hardcore by virtue of the hardcore having more time and dedication.

The alternative would be to have casual players dangling in the wind with no way to advance their character other than doing raids. Hardcore players, just like any modern mmo are a very small minority. This game will live or die with casual players that need the 6 month cycle to finish content. My 2 cents.

And please, don't mistake my statement that this game relies on casual players to mean the content is easy. Farm from it. Took me a month to beat Titan Extreme and it's been 3 weeks and we still cna't down Twintania. I think my situtation is more of the norm rather than the exception.

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Originally Posted by Zell

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Stopped reading at the ridiculous casual statement. I'll never understand why people on these forums turns everything it into a casual vs hardcore. Reread my first comment, let it sink in and process. MY point was the fact that they are replacing gear fast, some people are upset because they just got it, now they are replacing it. I don't give a rats if a casual logs in and gets it just for logging in. That isn't what I'm talking about. Please save that ridiculous casual excuse for someone else.

Fact is they are replacing gear fast, as soon as most people got it. Which is why a lot of people are upset. Should people be able to set on gear for years before new gear comes out? No. Not even what I'm suggesting or implying. If anyone here thinks that's how it should be, don't play mmos. 6 months would be a great balance if there wasn't a token system AND a rng+week long lock out. You keep talking about how are players suppose to catch up but the way the current system is designed will keep them forever behind if they miss a week or more.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

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i90 gear has been available since release. I've been given 6 months to get it. It's not SE's fault if it takes me that long to get it. What about the person that got the i90 gear 5 months ago, should he have to wait another 6 months before he can get an upgrade?

You are conflating issues. When you get gear vs. when they are available are two separate things. Yes yes, 3 months ago we got i90 accessories from primals that may be replaced 3 months later, however, that gear was a sidegrade, not an upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Zell

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It doesn't matter when they are released. Its about when they can be obtained. If its designed to take you 6 months to get gear just so SE can replace it shortly after most of the people get it. Then yeah people are going to be mad. Which is why most of the people I talked to that are mad about it, are mad about it. It has nothing to do if casuals can get i90 its the fact that they just got most of their myth pieces and now they have to do the whole token system and week lock out crap AFTER THEY JUST GOT DONE. Most people like to be able to sit on it for awhile.

Me personally, I don't give a crap. If it's no pvp and no dungeons that drop phat lewt to sell. I don't see why people even bother getting all the top tier gear. Buut that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

I dont think OP is saying he wants his gear to be the best for ever, or that he wants everyone to have to struggle like he did forever. I think his problem is that they are making it useless so fast. Other mmos usually don't make it where it takes months to get the gear due to some casual token system AND THEN make it obsolete with every patch, not expansion.

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It won't be BiS, but it won't be useless. As of right now, Darklight still isn't useless. Darklight can serve you well for everything but the EX primals and Turn 5. i90 gear won't be useless come patch 2.2. It will just no longer be the best.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

It doesn't matter when they are released. Its about when they can be obtained. If its designed to take you 6 months to get gear just so SE can replace it shortly after most of the people get it. Then yeah people are going to be mad. Which is why most of the people I talked to that are mad about it, are mad about it. It has nothing to do if casuals can get i90 its the fact that they just got most of their myth pieces and now they have to do the whole token system and week lock out crap AFTER THEY JUST GOT DONE. Most people like to be able to sit on it for awhile.

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I'm sorry. I'm really really trying to give your argument the benefit of the doubt but i can't.
Most people have at least one i90 or close to i90 character.

By the time 2.2 rolls around, 28-30 weeks will have elapsed (7 months).
16 weeks of 300 mythology a week = 4800 Mythology.
12 weeks of 450 mythology a week = 5400 Mythology.

For a Total of 10,200 Mythology. That means that a person who has NEVER done coil, has never done any of the extreme primals, will have one job at i90 in THREE months (not 6 as you claim) and another job i87+ in another (THREE months).

So, even assuming that ABSOLUTE worst case scenario.... a person can have an i90 character in HALF the time.

Now please see the other side of the coin. A player who does coil turns 1-3 and gets a few drops here and there. And maybe that same player has some luck getting Ultima accessory and Garuda Extreme accessory so that they don't have to spend any mythology, or half they would have spent. That person will become i90 in probably 2 months of play if they supplement the gear that doesn't drop from coil.

As a previous poster has said, you are completely overexagerating how long it takes to become i90 even using the most CASUAL of standards.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

Fact is they are replacing gear fast, as soon as most people got it. Which is why a lot of people are upset. Should people be able to set on gear for years before new gear comes out? No. Not even what I'm suggesting or implying. If anyone here thinks that's how it should be, don't play mmos.

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But... But... My Joyeuse in FFXI lasted me until I finally got a level 99 dark elemental magian trial shikargar for Red Mage... That was at least two years after I got it...! ALL GEAR SHOULD DO THAT!

Joking aside (well, at least the latter part of what I said was joking), yeah we get some gear way too quickly and dare I say easily (it's literally grind tomes for some of it). It's like all throw away for the super "hardcore" players until you get your "BiS". Though some of us still won't be getting caught up for a while yet; time, money, douchebaggery of other players ("AF gear!? Kick the nub!"), lockouts, lack of will to do coil, lack of will to redo dungeons/raids for tomes, etc. Those of us that get left behind gear-wise are still generally accepted to do stuff, catching up to full ilvl 90 probably isn't a whole lot of people's biggest interest either (certainly isn't mine, I've been 76-79 at least a month).

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Originally Posted by Zell

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That's IF the person caps every week. Quite a bit of people don't for numerous reasons. If you read carefully you'll see where I stated "This is how some of the people that I've talked, that are mad about it feels" These are people that have been around for longer than 3 months. Not to mention a lot of people don't focus on just one class. They do myths gear for other classes aswell. Since you can do it all on one char.

And the person that becomes complete i90 in 2 months is rare and lucky. What's your point? That's like saying "Its a lot of people that got to 50 within the first 3 days of release they need to raise lvl cap faster"

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

It won't be BiS, but it won't be useless. As of right now, Darklight still isn't useless. Darklight can serve you well for everything but the EX primals and Turn 5. i90 gear won't be useless come patch 2.2. It will just no longer be the best.

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Yeah I explained how I used useless. I don't know if its a mmo thing or just the mmos that I come from. But gear used to get better gear is "throw away gear" and/or "useless" Even though ALL gear until the game goes has high as it's going too is throw away gear.

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Originally Posted by Zell

I'm sorry. I'm really really trying to give your argument the benefit of the doubt but i can't.
Most people have at least one i90 or close to i90 character.

By the time 2.2 rolls around, 28-30 weeks will have elapsed (7 months).
16 weeks of 300 mythology a week = 4800 Mythology.
12 weeks of 450 mythology a week = 5400 Mythology.

For a Total of 10,200 Mythology. That means that a person who has NEVER done coil, has never done any of the extreme primals, will have one job at i90 in THREE months (not 6 as you claim) and another job i87+ in another (THREE months).

So, even assuming that ABSOLUTE worst case scenario.... a person can have an i90 character in HALF the time.

Now please see the other side of the coin. A player who does coil turns 1-3 and gets a few drops here and there. And maybe that same player has some luck getting Ultima accessory and Garuda Extreme accessory so that they don't have to spend any mythology, or half they would have spent. That person will become i90 in probably 2 months of play if they supplement the gear that doesn't drop from coil.

As a previous poster has said, you are completely overexagerating how long it takes to become i90 even using the most CASUAL of standards.

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Doesn't all of this assume the player will cap every week (or has capped nearly every week)? Your definition of casual appears to be that they still cap most weeks, giving them enough myth to get full ilvl 90 without doing coil. It simply isn't the case. I consider myself an average player, not casual and I don't have a single ilvl 90 job (I have 3 war/magic jobs to 50, 5 if I count my alt). I've only collected enough myth to get me my WHM relic zenith and AF1.5 body/hands/feet (and almost head), and I've played quite often since early access (minus a couple weeks of February, Lightning Returns and Tales of Symphonia Chronicles came out). Not everyone grinds away like crazy for tomes and we have other things to do outside of the game. You, sir, are over-exaggerating how other players actually play the game.

e-peen shrinks with age but fear not! there's a patch for it! in just a matter of weeks after using the patch, your e-peen will be back to the size you once enjoyed. [cue: lala spinning in circles in Old Gridinia's Amphitheater and female miqo running through the Costa De Sol tides]

DISCLAIMER: effects of patch are merely temporary and may cause qq-ing of community or once a week play. before playing post patch, please consult your perception of MMOs and games, generally. do not play post patch if you suffer from a financial condition and do not want to pay $15/month for "limited" content. talk to the DEV team for effects lasting more than 4 months.

Look that's fair to say that everyone doesn't cap every week because it does take time. However, how do you balance the decision not to cap every week to those that do. There has to be some balance right? 3 months is too quick, 1 year is too slow because it will make people bored and leave the game. What is a good balance between introducing new gear to work towards, and the amount of time that is considered reasonable, before you add gear that makes the previous gear obsolete?

I am positive that YoshiP and the team have done calculations and they know, ON AVERAGE, how long it takes for people to be geared enough to try the next tier of content. Do you believe they would release 2.2 with a SIGNIFICANT iLvl increase if their internal numbers showed that 85% of the people averaged i60? I think they know exactly what is a fair time line for casual and hardcore alike.

As someone like myself who does a little coil, a little primals here and there, with my work and family schedule, the 6 month content patch is jsut enough to time to progress while not feeling behind.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the characterization that items become obsolete in 3 months. It's 6 months and 6 months is perfect.

It shouldn't be seen as a casual vs hardcore thing.
Its more of a how much of achievement u have felt during ur time in FF14arr.
U pay to play and have fun because u know its a game....
But some people pay to play to become the very best because you know getting the best gear before it becomes casual status is a huge achievement vs beating things and getting world's 1st with not BiS gear.
So as long as you log on and keep ur smiley face visible, none of this gear progression fiasco / why do i even sub shouldn't phase you.
Because u play for your enjoyment not others.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

Doesn't all of this assume the player will cap every week (or has capped nearly every week)? Your definition of casual appears to be that they still cap most weeks, giving them enough myth to get full ilvl 90 without doing coil. It simply isn't the case. I consider myself an average player, not casual and I don't have a single ilvl 90 job (I have 3 war/magic jobs to 50, 5 if I count my alt). I've only collected enough myth to get me my WHM relic zenith and AF1.5 body/hands/feet (and almost head), and I've played quite often since early access (minus a couple weeks of February, Lightning Returns and Tales of Symphonia Chronicles came out). Not everyone grinds away like crazy for tomes and we have other things to do outside of the game. You, sir, are over-exaggerating how other players actually play the game.

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It's not an exaggeration. Zell's not saying everyone has 2 i90 jobs, just that if you capped every week you'd have saved enough tomes to nearly have two i90s without ever entering Coil. As such, if you only ever collected half the cap you'd still have collected nearly enough myth tomes to have a single role at or near i90 by now (and there are still a few weeks until the next patch). This is nowhere near replacing gear as soon as you get it, because it's going to take you another several months to actually get the gear that they're releasing. At most, some lucky people will replace a piece or two of gear the first week after the patch, but those people have been i90 for ages. Anyone who hasn't finished T5 by 2.2 will have to wait for the second week after the patch to get any new gear from tomes, and that assumes they're capping the new tomes straight away.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

Coil is another story and depends on luck. I've been seeing nothing but tank gear, I'm a healer. I know people who see nothing but healer gear. Rng is rng.

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Here's a secret that's too much of a coincidence to not be true at this point and nothing anyone can say by now will make me believe it isn't even if RNG is RNG and yes I am this paranoid: Coil drops, if not all drops, are determined by server time. After 3 or more months of consistently doing Coil at around 12-1 PST we kept seeing lots of bard and tank gear with occasional healing, striking and even more rarely, as in only 1 drop if even that, maiming and casting gear. Meanwhile our other group doing it at around 5-6pm PST kept seeing striking and healing gear with occasional bard and tank drops, I even traded places with them because as a Monk the only Coil drops I had by that point were both rings and an earring and they were already letting striking gloves drop to the ground because of how many dropped and everyone had a piece by this point, and sure enough striking pants dropped after only seeing them once before. My group recently switched Coil times to around 5pm PST and now we see lots of striking gear first then healing and casting gear with the occasional bard and tank drops. It might also be related to party composition but server times seem to affect it the most, I might also just be crazy and someone else will most likely post that their drops wildly rotate even when they do it consistently at the same time and with the same people too so yeah, just wanted to get that out.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Here's a secret that's too much of a coincidence to not be true at this point and nothing anyone can say by now will make me believe it isn't even if RNG is RNG and yes I am this paranoid: Coil drops, if not all drops, are determined by server time

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This would explain the ludicrous amounts of casting drops my static sees. I wouldn't put it past the coder to incorporate server time, but then again, I'm not a coder and have no concept of RNG code/programming.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Snip

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>.>
<.<
I didn't want to say anything because then they would be like "Nothing you say matters you dont believe in RNG burn the witch!"
But I find it mighty strange that every time I go on my healer I see tank gear and every time I go on my tank I see healer gear. And dont get me started on CT I can almost predict the drops. Also! The roll feature. Roll right after someone, get on voice chat with someone and time the roll. If you roll a ms behind or above the numbers will be in order. I find that strange, usually in games with the roll feature no matter what it's always different no matter how close to someone else you rolled.

If its a useful reference I'm playing 1 month, got my char to 50 and ilvl 80. Havent looted ct/coil this week and haven't previously looted coil. Do have ultima/garuda accessories though. While ilvl 90 probably will take a while mid 80-90 will definitely not lol.

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Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

Vertical progression gives endgame heavy players something to look forward to while less intense players eventually get some progression. This is a really good move on the developers' part to prevent things like WoW's 40 man Naxxramas being visited by about 3% of all people who played the game. It was a waste of the developers' efforts.
This principle also applies to just about everything else in society. Which is good. Because I don't want to pay $50,000 for a 200 MB hard drive like they once cost.

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But technology and and video game content are not the same. The content in this game is disposable where as the content in a game like FFXI had value for years and years.. for example. Kirins Osode today is still a very good piece of gear to own.. where as as soon as you can buy i100 or i150 gear.. why do bahamuts coil ever again? Anyone who picks up this game 3 years from now isnt going to waste their time getting level 60/70/80/90 gear when they can go straight from level 50 to i100 gear. all of that content in the middle is wasted.

This game is all throw away content.. nothing in the middle is worth playing, its all end game and as new end game comes in nobody will do the old end game because there is no value in it.

But do you want to do the same content that came out a year ago? The primals are still relevant because they're part of the story, or at least certain quest lines. you'll have to beat coil 1-5 before you can enter turn 6.

The content stays relevant but no longer requires you to grind on them for a month or two. Plus with the echo and increased item level, the previous content will not be skipped over. you'll have to do them at least once.

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Originally Posted by Zell

stuff

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Personally I do not, but my point was, its not quite a good move from Devs because.. whereas im past that content.. a new person who jumps in the game a year or two out wont even have that content to do because it will be irrelevant. Content should not become irrelevant to new players.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

Personally I do not, but my point was, its not quite a good move from Devs because.. whereas im past that content.. a new person who jumps in the game a year or two out wont even have that content to do because it will be irrelevant. Content should not become irrelevant to new players.

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If it does not become irrelevant, that means a new player will have to complete everything to catch up. It might take them 6 months... and that's a turn off for new players. It's hard enough joining a new game, but then being asked to do the content people were doing 6 months ago as a requisite for catching up is a mistake.

I think that was one of the worst parts of FFXI in the beginning. It was too gated.