Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

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Originally Posted by Colino

Well that's their problem, they certainly haven't been levelling all those classes to make things harder for them. You can't level every single class and expect to have fun with r25 content.

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Yes you can, by steamrolling it with a group of friends. How is this a hard concept to grasp?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Because the new Dev Team designed better gear than the old team. But to think that this r30 gear is going to be the best for all time, ESPECIALLY with the release of a r50 dungeon is naive at best.

That is not to mention that ALL the gear you listed is dropped off world NMs, INCLUDING THE FFXI ITEMS. R75s were camping Leaping Lizzy just like level 30s. What point are you trying to prove there?

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The point was to reiterate the point that just because there is Lv.50 content it doesn't mean that lower content will not be important to capped players. YOU in fact just proved MY point so thank you. It was not about HOW you got the gear but the importance OF the gear itself.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

It's these rules that we're bitching about. This 25 dungeon will be obsolete as fast as the NMs they added in the last major patch. Game doesn't need content that becomes obsolete within a week because the developers can't create new content fast enough. After a week you're back to leve grinding and boredom. Hopefully they get things right with the 50 dungeon, I don't know how many people will sit around waiting more months with nothing to do for the next content.

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They are improving the game for EVERYONE. Not just r50s. Mid level NMS and the mid level Dungeon are designed for MID LEVEL PLAYERS who will either return to the game after the patch, or join the game at PS3 launch. They are trying to learn from their mistakes like the first time we all leveled to r50 with NO content, and adding content for FUTURE players.

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Originally Posted by Richard

The point was to reiterate the point that just because there is Lv.50 content it doesn't mean that lower content will not be important to capped players. YOU in fact just proved MY point so thank you. It was not about HOW you got the gear but the importance OF the gear itself.

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Lol BS. The example you used was poor but don't try to turn it around as me proving your point. Once the r50 dungeon is in place, most r30 gear will be obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Richard

So you condone 1-2 Lv.50's blowing through Toto-Rak for 2-3 Lv.25's? It's things like this that destroy any semblance of a challenge in games anymore. You may as well be breastfeeding at 15 years old.

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I hope you're not one of those people who was PL'd or did chigoe burns in XI. Both seemed to be accepted as part of the FFXI culture, did you speak out against it there?

I didn't speak out against it either. I just didn't participate in it. I recommend that instead of crying that "So-and-so did something differently than I did it!" you adopt the same strategy. If you don't approve of it, don't participate in it. But you complaining that SE isn't forcing your personal decisions on an entire playerbase makes me laugh.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

They are improving the game for EVERYONE. Not just r50s. Mid level NMS and the mid level Dungeon are designed for MID LEVEL PLAYERS who will either return to the game after the patch, or join the game at PS3 launch. They are trying to learn from their mistakes like the first time we all leveled to r50 with NO content, and adding content for FUTURE players.

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But how does capping a Lv.30 dungeon to Lv.30's hurt the mid content players if mid content is so important? They will be doing the dungeon at the MID level. What it adds to the game is a challenge for EVERYONE not just the mid level players. It adds two facets of content really.

The entitlement of this community to have everything spoon fed to them is astonishing.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Yes you can, by steamrolling it with a group of friends. How is this a hard concept to grasp?

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Because having content that is able to "be steamrolled" dooms it to become old and stale very fast. How long did the R30 NMs last? 2 weeks?

Also, there is little value associated to rank 30 dungeon rewards if you can just steamroll it with a rank 50 class.

If the only way to get good R30 raid gear was to complete the dungeon AT rank 30 the hard way, then you know that anyone who is wearing the raid gear is a good player and not some random scrub who just steamrolled a R30 dungeon at R50 because he couldn't beat it without Easy Mode.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Lol BS. The example you used was poor but don't try to turn it around as me proving your point. Once the r50 dungeon is in place, most r30 gear will be obsolete.

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Again 10 years of FFXI says otherwise. Especially when the new Dev Team is not going to come out with more content for another 2-3 months.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

It's these rules that we're bitching about. This 25 dungeon will be obsolete as fast as the NMs they added in the last major patch. Game doesn't need content that becomes obsolete within a week because the developers can't create new content fast enough. After a week you're back to leve grinding and boredom. Hopefully they get things right with the 50 dungeon, I don't know how many people will sit around waiting more months with nothing to do for the next content.

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The game, as it is right now, is still being built really.
These two pieces of raid content are nothing but things to fill the gaps in content for mid-level players.
The only reason why the 25 dungeon will be obsolete quickly is because most people at this point in time already have a rank 50 battle class.
For those who have started and who are going to start playing in the future, on the other hand, these kinds of mid-level content additions are extremely valuable.

But yes, I hope they do well with the rank 50 dungeon.

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Originally Posted by trinta

I hope you're not one of those people who was PL'd or did chigoe burns in XI. Both seemed to be accepted as part of the FFXI culture, did you speak out against it there?

I didn't speak out against it either. I just didn't participate in it. I recommend that instead of crying that "So-and-so did something differently than I did it!" you adopt the same strategy. If you don't approve of it, don't participate in it. But you complaining that SE isn't forcing your personal decisions on an entire playerbase makes me laugh.

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So its peoples fault that we leveled every DoM/DoW to R50 and now can not undertake a challenging dungeon but instead are going to steamroll through something that could have potentially been fun?

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Originally Posted by Richard

But how does capping a Lv.30 dungeon to Lv.30's hurt the mid content players if mid content is so important? They will be doing the dungeon at the MID level. What it adds to the game is a challenge for EVERYONE not just the mid level players. It adds two facets of content really.

The entitlement of this community to have everything spoon fed to them is astonishing.

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lol, entitlement has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to be forced to play a r30 dungeon when I could care less about mid-level content. So by your definition, they would be shooting themselves in the foot by excluding players who DON'T want to relive their days as a r30. Its pointless.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

They are improving the game for EVERYONE. Not just r50s. Mid level NMS and the mid level Dungeon are designed for MID LEVEL PLAYERS who will either return to the game after the patch, or join the game at PS3 launch. They are trying to learn from their mistakes like the first time we all leveled to r50 with NO content, and adding content for FUTURE players.

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You have to take into consideration people who are above 35 but below 45. what about them? No dungeons, no challenging content, just boring leves. Between 35 and 45 why would you go into the level 30 dungeon if the rewards will be trivial for your level and if the challenge is non-existant?

While I'd rather the dungeons to have a cap or at least an optional cap for better reward, I'll pray that at least we get capped story missions...

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Originally Posted by Richard

Again 10 years of FFXI says otherwise. Especially when the new Dev Team is not going to come out with more content for another 2-3 months.

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IF YOU WANT A CHALLENGE DO THE R50 DUNGEON! HOW IS THIS UNCLEAR?

I'm in favor of them not returning to the horrible structure of CoP encounters. They were amazing, the best, but fck carrying around a bazillion types of gear just to do content that I'll never return to, or only do for a while.

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Originally Posted by Richard

But how does capping a Lv.30 dungeon to Lv.30's hurt the mid content players if mid content is so important? They will be doing the dungeon at the MID level. What it adds to the game is a challenge for EVERYONE not just the mid level players. It adds two facets of content really.

The entitlement of this community to have everything spoon fed to them is astonishing.

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how does it help the mid content?
the mid content players dont need a cap

all a cap does is punish and hinder higher players and force them to be a lower level which they may not want

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Originally Posted by Adol

For those who have started and who are going to start playing in the future, on the other hand, these kinds of mid-level content additions are extremely valuable.

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The time in a player's life where their highest battle class is rank 30 is very very small. Once they hit 50 and decide to rank up an different class, they are NOT going to willingly redo the dungeon with their rank 30 sub-class if they can just steamroll it with their rank 50 class.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Because having content that is able to "be steamrolled" dooms it to become old and stale very fast. How long did the R30 NMs last? 2 weeks?

Also, there is little value associated to rank 30 dungeon rewards if you can just steamroll it with a rank 50 class.

If the only way to get good R30 raid gear was to complete the dungeon AT rank 30 the hard way, then you know that anyone who is wearing the raid gear is a good player and not some random scrub who just steamrolled a R30 dungeon at R50 because he couldn't beat it without Easy Mode.

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Except that, when I want to show off how good a player I am I will be wearing r50 raid gear, not r30.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

lol, entitlement has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to be forced to play a r30 dungeon when I could care less about mid-level content. So by your definition, they would be shooting themselves in the foot by excluding players who DON'T want to relive their days as a r30. Its pointless.

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Who is forcing you into the dungeon? If you don't care about Mid content than don't DO mid content. How ignorant are you? For the people that WANT to do mid content and not steamroll through it we are pretty much SOL. For the people who already have capped DoM/DoW they are FORCED into doing at R.50.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Because the new Dev Team designed better gear than the old team. But to think that this r30 gear is going to be the best for all time, ESPECIALLY with the release of a r50 dungeon is naive at best.

That is not to mention that ALL the gear you listed is dropped off world NMs, INCLUDING THE FFXI ITEMS. R75s were camping Leaping Lizzy just like level 30s. What point are you trying to prove there?

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There is a chance that some of the new gear would be desirable for higher ranks, and that might be OK if it were dropping off open world mobs. But this is supposed to be instanced content designed specifically for a certain rank. While we could have a L75 camp LL and kill it in like 5 seconds, he still had to compete with the L15 too. The point is, because of the lack of challenge, you run through unopposed with little challenge until you get the gear you want. It just like having the new NM's that pop so fast and having high drop rates. People don't want this game stuck on <Easy Mode> forever.

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Originally Posted by Adol

The game, as it is right now, is still being built really.
These two pieces of raid content are nothing but things to fill the gaps in content for mid-level players.
The only reason why the 25 dungeon will be obsolete quickly is because most people at this point in time already have a rank 50 battle class.
For those who have started and who are going to start playing in the future, on the other hand, these kinds of mid-level content additions are extremely valuable.

But yes, I hope they do well with the rank 50 dungeon.

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While still valuable for the drops (i'd assume) the challenge will be non-existant for the majority because people, given the opportunity, will go the easy way and just bring high level friends to clear the dungeon for them.

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Originally Posted by trinta

I hope you're not one of those people who was PL'd or did chigoe burns in XI. Both seemed to be accepted as part of the FFXI culture, did you speak out against it there?

I didn't speak out against it either. I just didn't participate in it. I recommend that instead of crying that "So-and-so did something differently than I did it!" you adopt the same strategy. If you don't approve of it, don't participate in it. But you complaining that SE isn't forcing your personal decisions on an entire playerbase makes me laugh.

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leveling and harder/challenging content is a different story imo. And the main content including capped fights were still challenging. if bcnm, cop, etc. were not capped the game wouldnt have offered half the fun it did.
Thats exactly the problem of all mmos. ALL content up to max cap is for crap. Has not a single replay value because no cap. Its more fun to help a 25/30 friend if you as well get synced to that lvl instead of rushing them through.

I remember that from other mmos and its just not fun. And the newbies who ask for help from ls wont experience fun and challenges until maybe endgame. So whats the point? We have so many easy mode mmos out there with also nice graphics. ... if ffxiv becomes one of them and doesnt change the direction it will be a rift clone with years of content lacking, and won't stand a single chance in the market.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

IF YOU WANT A CHALLENGE DO THE R50 DUNGEON! HOW IS THIS UNCLEAR?

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And what if people WANT to do a challenging R30 dungeon? Again you're tunnelvisioning.

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Originally Posted by Richard

So its peoples fault that we leveled every DoM/DoW to R50 and now can not undertake a challenging dungeon but instead are going to steamroll through something that could have potentially been fun?

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Yes. All 500 of you who have leveled every DoM/DoW to 50 are completely out of luck. If you want to experience this content at-level, that is legitimate. You can make a new character. Or petition SE for a level sync feature that will allow you to team up with someone who still has a lower-rank class.

But to come to the forums and cry about it just makes you look ridiculous. Talk about entitlement issues, hah!

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Originally Posted by Richard

Who is forcing you into the dungeon? If you don't care about Mid content than don't DO mid content. How ignorant are you? For the people that WANT to do mid content and not steamroll through it we are pretty much SOL. For the people who already have capped DoM/DoW they are FORCED into doing at R.50.

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Exactly, which means the new content is going to go unused by half the population if capped. How ignorant are you? For the people that WANT to do mid level content for the CHALLENGE, CAN RUN IT AS A r30! Problem solved.

lol. Sure I am. The people that were waiting for challenging mid-level content wouldn't have all their jobs to r46.

Please for the love of God/Buddha/Allah/Kirin give us something that plays like the CoP missions!!! I have no problems with level capping areas. The Promy's were amazing. The challenges. The rewards. The storyline. All of it was on point.

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Originally Posted by Richard

And what if people WANT to do a challenging R30 dungeon? Again you're tunnelvisioning.

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then they can use their r30 jobs!
if they dont have any, maybe they can go in naked with a weapon instead to make it more challenging
or make an alt to go do it

again, dont force people to play a certain way, thats all you people are basicaly wanting now

forcing people to not be allowed to play how they want instead of promoting people to play the game

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

CoP was the golden age of MMOs, a real feel of adventure and accomplishment, good rewards at the end and a real engaging story.

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The likes of which will never be seen again.

Come on, you have to be in 4 to do the low-ranked Dungeon. You can't POSSIBLY join with a R40+ crew, as it can't be fun, but a pain in the ass.

If I want to enjoy new content, I want to enjoy it like it's built to. So I'll take my low-ranked jobs and do cool stuff =D

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Exactly, which means the new content is going to go unused by half the population if capped. How ignorant are you? For the people that WANT to do mid level content for the CHALLENGE, CAN RUN IT AS A r30! Problem solved.

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I'm all 50 DoM/DoW .. LEVEL CAP ME PLEASE!!!

This is a horrible move for SE, anyone in an active ls right will not be doing those dungeons with a bunch of 30s. SE essentially wasted all their time developing this 30 dungeon if there is not going to be a level restriction to it.

The lower level dungeons need to be level capped just like CoP, anyone can do them but their level us reduced to the maximum level that could enter while they are in the dungeon.

If there is not a barrier to entree, there will be no sense of reward in that dungeons... it will just be another meaningless time sink because there will hardly be any groups of 30s in it it will a 50 zerg fest which will get everyone the gear fast then everyone will stop doing it. No accomplishment, no feeling of reward = no fun.

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Originally Posted by Anty

leveling and harder/challenging content is a different story imo. And the main content including capped fights were still challenging. if bcnm, cop, etc. were not capped the game wouldnt have offered half the fun it did.
Thats exactly the problem of all mmos. ALL content up to max cap is for crap. Has not a single replay value because no cap. Its more fun to help a 25/30 friend if you as well get synced to that lvl instead of rushing them through.

I remember that from other mmos and its just not fun. And the newbies who ask for help from ls wont experience fun and challenges until maybe endgame. So whats the point? We have so many easy mode mmos out there with also nice graphics. ... if ffxiv becomes one of them and doesnt change the direction it will be a rift clone with years of content lacking, and won't stand a single chance in the market.

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Leveling is a different story? So what you're saying is that PLing is okay, because that isn't where you personally looked for your challenge?

As for the rest of your post, I think I get what you're saying, but I also think that asking for a level sync feature is a better solution--in that it would allow those people who want to steamroll/help steamroll to do so, while still allowing those who want more challenge in certain areas to be able to maintain that via level syncing.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

This is a horrible move for SE, anyone in an active ls right will not be doing those dungeons with a bunch of 30s. SE essentially wasted all their time developing this 30 dungeon if there is not going to be a level restriction to it.

The lower level dungeons need to be level capped just like CoP, anyone can do them but their level us reduced to the maximum level that could enter while they are in the dungeon.

If there is not a barrier to entree, there will be no sense of reward in that dungeons... it will just be another meaningless time sink because there will hardly be any groups of 30s in it it will a 50 zerg fest which will get everyone the gear fast then everyone will stop doing it. No accomplishment, no feeling of reward = no fun.

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Then don't do it.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Exactly, which means the new content is going to go unused by half the population if capped. How ignorant are you? For the people that WANT to do mid level content for the CHALLENGE, CAN RUN IT AS A r30! Problem solved.

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do you not understand what a capped dungeon means? It doesn't mean I cant enter at Lv.50 it means that if I try to enter at Lv.50 that I will be scaled down to Lv.30... And to the people who don't have anymore Lv.30's? They are going to steamroll.

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Yes. All 500 of you who have leveled every DoM/DoW to 50 are completely out of luck. If you want to experience this content at-level, that is legitimate. You can make a new character. Or petition SE for a level sync feature that will allow you to team up with someone who still has a lower-rank class.

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So you're in favor of excluding a section of people just so you can have easy content k. On the other hand capping a dungeon @ 30 does not hurt anyone and keeps the challenge alive.

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Originally Posted by trinta

Yes. All 500 of you who have leveled every DoM/DoW to 50 are completely out of luck. If you want to experience this content at-level, that is legitimate. You can make a new character. Or petition SE for a level sync feature that will allow you to team up with someone who still has a lower-rank class.

But to come to the forums and cry about it just makes you look ridiculous. Talk about entitlement issues, hah!

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why is asking for some challenge ridiculous? an mmo cant exist if its easy mode with competitors like wow, aion or rift etc...
since they are easy mode already and they create content way faster then SE and still its not enough and they losing subscribers (not sure about wow but i guess they as well).

Every content will be done withing 1-2 days, even for a casual gamer... how is that supposed to work in an mmo?
Who pays fees just to log on every few months to rush through another easy-mode dungeon?... i don't understand these people but well looking at how the game and the decreasing population i won't have to think about it anyways.
The easy mode people will leave back to wow, rift, etc. And the others will perhaps not touch an mmo anytime soon or go back to playing single player rpg.

How about we just ask for a Voluntary Cap feature? That way you can choose how you want to go thru the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Please for the love of God/Buddha/Allah/Kirin give us something that plays like the CoP missions!!! I have no problems with level capping areas. The Promy's were amazing. The challenges. The rewards. The storyline. All of it was on point.

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I think most wants that, but the opposing crew just yells louder.

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Originally Posted by Anty

why is asking for some challenge ridiculous? an mmo cant exist if its easy mode with competitors like wow, aion or rift etc...
since they are easy mode already and they create content way faster then SE and still its not enough and they losing subscribers (not sure about wow but i guess they as well).

Every content will be done withing 1-2 days, even for a casual gamer... how is that supposed to work in an mmo?
Who pays fees just to log on every few months to rush through another easy-mode dungeon?... i don't understand these people but well looking at how the game and the decreasing population i won't have to think about it anyways.
The easy mode people will leave back to wow, rift, etc. And the others will perhaps not touch an mmo anytime soon or go back to playing single player rpg.

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Who is being excluded the way it is? Your argument makes no sense. NO ONE is excluded from an uncapped dungeon while lvl 50 players who don't need the gear and don't want to run it as lvl 30 would be excluded.

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Originally Posted by Richard

So you're in favor of excluding a section of people just so you can have easy content k. On the other hand capping a dungeon @ 30 does not hurt anyone and keeps the challenge alive.

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I am in favor of not catering the rules of the game to an exceedingly small minority.

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But to come to the forums and cry about it just makes you look ridiculous. Talk about entitlement issues, hah!

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Coming to the forums and asking FOR A LARGER CHALLENGE makes me look ridiculous? Since when has anyone asking for more of a challenge been ridiculous.

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I am in favor of not catering the rules of the game to an exceedingly small minority.

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That small minority is the reason this game even exists. If FFXI didn't survive as long as it did there would have never been an XIV. Why is it so hard to understand that you need to cater to EVERYONE.