SE it's time for A new Job Please. (Tank)

If they add one, prob going to be Runefencer

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Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri

It really doesn't matter what the class can be, the Tank role is highly unappealing to a large portion of players, hence the lack of tanks. If they make a Tank just to add to the role, that really won't add any more appeal, its just a fill in the gap class.

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And then there's me. I main heal, but I mainly don't play a tank class because the current two don't interest me. There are tank concepts they could implement that would encourage me to tank, however.

Not adding a tank role isn't going to increase the number of tanks, but adding one -will- because there -will- be people drawn to it, whether you and these "many others" are included in that number or not.

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Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri

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ofcourse personal preference is everything. I pretty much said the same thing as you but with less limitations. I play classes because I like the class, not necessarily the role. Your saying that people dislike the role in general which is understandable. In the middle somewhere, people would play the class because it appeals to them regardless of role. If they made a more glass-cannon type tank, or an evasion based higher dps tank, people would play.

Also, why level a class to not play the fun content? you would solo (fate grind?) to 50 and not do any true multiplayer content with it? To each his/her own, but that doesn't make much sense to me, esp that the tank is the most group centric role.

I don't understand why people want such op jobs. So you're saying you want a tank job that can take big hits and have high dps? (sounds like a DRK to me)

I think people are taking the term "tank" to literally and associating it with face value. A tank is only meant to keep the damage off your party. The only reason people don't want to play tanks is because they can't handle the responsibility of keeping the team alive.

A team can survive with bad dps (usually means longer fights) but a team can't survive with bad tanks.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

I don't understand why people want such op jobs. So you're saying you want a tank job that can take big hits and have high dps? (sounds like a DRK to me)

I think people are taking the term "tank" to literally and associating it with face value. A tank is only meant to keep the damage off your party. The only reason people don't want to play tanks is because they can't handle the responsibility of keeping the team alive.

A team can survive with bad dps (usually means longer fights) but a team can't survive with bad tanks.

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http://www.hdwallpapersplus.com/wp-c...challenger.jpg

Sorry, what were you saying about tanks not doing damage? What you're thinking of is a guardian type character, not a tank. Berserkers can be tanks. They aren't actually all big damage low HP. Think Minotaur. Your view is very narrow and incorrect outside of the guardian archetype. I also never understood how paladins came to be predominantly healers either.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

Also, why level a class to not play the fun content? you would solo (fate grind?) to 50 and not do any true multiplayer content with it? To each his/her own, but that doesn't make much sense to me, esp that the tank is the most group centric role.

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My general play style doesn't fit the overall concept of a Tank. I'm a player who prefers being in the back, supporting the team, either through heals, buffs or debuffs. I typically play tamer class characters, so I usually always have a Minion to fall on for my damage while I throw out full support. Being right there in the middle of fight is too much for me, which is why I prefer Mage and Magic based classes since they always support my play style. Tank in general is something I would not enjoy playing so only reason I'd have one is if it were a Disciple of Magic, but I wouldn't use him outside of self gratification.

There was a very similar thread from way back in November in the Tanking Roles forums. Folks might find lots in there worthwhile.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ming-new-tanks

Informed by that thread and by my own views, I suggest the following:

1. The main reason for a tank shortage in this game (and indeed all mmos) is not that there is a shortage of tanking classes but that not all players enjoy tanking. Yes, the imbalance might be lessened by group sizes of 5/10 rather than 4/8, and maybe more interesting tank types and a less toxic community would make a difference too, but only around the edges. There's a certain visceral joy in the killing stuff role, plus one is less exposed to group angst.
2. That said, the imbalance is likely to be made worse if new dps classes come out without bringing out a new tanking class as well. Without a new tanking class we would see lots of players playing up new dps and no tanks being played up at the same time. Now, granted (see #1), those playing up the tanks are more likely than not players who already play tanks, but still...
3. In the end, only mitigation tanks work. Pure evasion tanks are either ghods if they can evade everything or they are broken if they almost evade everything. That is, they are ghod-like until the RNG wins, and then they are just dead. In the same way, a pure self-healing tank doesn't work. If a tank can't take the big hit it doesn't matter how fast it can heal itself up afterwards if it's already dead.
4. Nevertheless, there are tons of different class mechanics that can be used to mitigate. There is plenty of room for SE to bring out a new tank that does the same job (holds aggro and takes a licking but keeps on ticking) but in different ways.

And frankly, that's all I remember as bottom line conclusions (at least my take-away conclusions) from that long-ago thread.

I'm all for Lancer Gaining Templar as a tank Job from the class.

It has a good number of defensive abilities that can be modified to be more effective for the Job itself, including a stun, a dedicated slow, a Parry Buff, and a Self-Heal skill.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

I also never understood how paladins came to be predominantly healers either.

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Because this is Final Fantasy. And Paladins have always used white magic in Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Because this is Final Fantasy. And Paladins have always used white magic in Final Fantasy.

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I wasn't talking about this game, and they clearly aren't healers in this game regardless so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond to me with it.

I have always been a Mnk/Nin/Sam/Pld fan. Over the years I have had 4 different FFXI accounts. Every one of them I played Mnk/Nin/Sam/Pld. If they made Nin or Sam a tank in FFXIV I would be picking a new main. Sadly current Pld is more like WoW War which isn't that fun for me.

FFXI and WoW have done evasion tanks very well. WoW now has two evasion/dps oriented tanks and balance issues are not even close to what we dealt with for months (War vs Pld).

As someone who had a 75 NIN tank in FFXI, I can't see the job working in FFXIV without such significant changes as to alter it completely. In a normal PT, NIN could easily manage to hold hate on one mob and not get hit if the tank was skilled. But anyone who's played it knows how messy it could get if you had an add, or a badly timed pop, and you had to try to manage 2 mobs. Forget 3 or more that you typically have in FFXIV. No matter how high your evasion is, if you have multiple mobs swinging at you, your shadows are going to go down faster than you can recast.

Most likely, IMO, is a parry/evasion tank not built on shadows. Something with high defense, moderate damage, but has defensive cool down skills that generate hate based on not getting hit. Basically pissing of the mobs because they can't hit you. The more they miss, the more hate you generate. Give it access to PGL for Featherfoot. Personally, I'd make this job SAM, with some insanely awesome looking samurai armor for its AF.

OH, and give an exclusive mount to the job at 50.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

I wasn't talking about this game, and they clearly aren't healers in this game regardless so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond to me with it.

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Ok. Apparently I need to explain this further. Paladin's are "holy" knights, chosen to be protectors of their subsequent homelands (Are we following so far? Key words thus far incase you've already lost track: "Holy" "Protectors"). Any sort of healing, in any sort of game, is typically based around the power of using holy energy and the power of the Earth, this directly relates to Paladin's sole purpose. White Magic, in the Final Fantasy universe, is used by Paladin and is the magic type most used by White Mage (Cure, Curaga, Holy, etc.). A White Mage uses a staff to channel the White Magic, a Paladin uses his sword (you'll notice that every time a Paladin uses Cure or Stoneskin, the tip of their sword glows). Typically, a Paladin will be a Tank who can use some White Magic. I've never seen a game where a Paladin just sits on the sidelines and acts as solely a healer.

So, summary incase that was too many words for you: Paladins = Holy Protectors. Holy = White Magic. White Magic = Curing magic. Paladins use curing magic.

you wont see a DPS tank other wise thats the OP tank and the only tank people will invite for events.

each job has one role only, the so called armory is garbage in ARR.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Paladins use curing magic.

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You didn't need to explain anything further, or be as condescending as you were. What you needed to do was read and understand what I was saying. Not only was it not a question, but had it been one it would have been rhetorical. You're also assuming I'm talking about final fantasy specifically, which I wasn't (which you then continued to ignore despite me specifically telling you). It was a general statement about the fantasy genre as a whole and the miscasting of the Paladin archetype.

EDIT: You know what? I'm not even going to call you on it. I don't care if this is quoted before the edit. I know what I said and I stand by it, but I won't call you on it.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

You didn't need to explain anything further, or be as condescending as you were. What you needed to do was read and understand what I was saying. Not only was it not a question, but had it been it would have been a rhetorical one. You're also assuming I'm talking about final fantasy specifically, which I wasn't.

But no, that's OK. You go ahead and talk down to me. I wouldn't want to stop you from feeding your obvious complex. I'm not one to stand in the way of delusion.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond to me with it.

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Because I was the one who felt the need to be rude first, obviously. I also just explained EVERY PALADIN EVER not just specifically in Final Fantasy. Seriously, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin Also, your question wasn't "rhetorical", it was a thought you had ("Hm, that's strange, why do Paladins heal?") which would have been answered in 5 seconds if you chose to Google it or use your brain and figure out what I meant by my first post. It's also sort of annoying that you're comparing the job of being "a tank" with an actual, real life tank. Do you know any tanks in any RPGs or MMOs that do one insane burst damage hit every little while and then nothing else in between? What is the point of having a tank who both mitigates damage and can act as a DPS? Why would you use the other tanks, at all? Our JOB is to hold the boss and take as little damage as possible, not to output super max deeps. The closest you'll get is Warrior with Unchained and Berserk in FF14.

I honestly don't have any complex, if you weren't such a ding dong to my initial response I would've replied and explained calmly. But your response to any opposition is obviously "HURRR DURRR THEYRE NOT HEALERS WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT OMG GO AWAY", and on top of that you ignored the actual information in my second post and just went back to "Nah, obviously you're only talking about FF14 with this". Just. Christ.

Samurai, Mystic Knight, or Dark Knight.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Because I was the one who felt the need to be rude first, obviously. I also just explained EVERY PALADIN EVER not just specifically in Final Fantasy. Seriously, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin Also, your question wasn't "rhetorical", it was a thought you had ("Hm, that's strange, why do Paladins heal?") which would have been answered in 5 seconds if you chose to Google it or use your brain and figure out what I meant by my first post. It's also sort of annoying that you're comparing the job of being "a tank" with an actual, real life tank. Do you know any tanks in any RPGs or MMOs that do one insane burst damage hit every little while and then nothing else in between? What is the point of having a tank who both mitigates damage and can act as a DPS? Why would you use the other tanks, at all? Our JOB is to hold the boss and take as little damage as possible, not to output super max deeps. The closest you'll get is Warrior with Unchained and Berserk in FF14.

I honestly don't have any complex, if you weren't such a ding dong to my initial response I would've replied and explained calmly. But your response to any opposition is obviously "HURRR DURRR THEYRE NOT HEALERS WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT OMG GO AWAY", and on top of that you ignored the actual information in my second post and just went back to "Nah, obviously you're only talking about FF14 with this". Just. Christ.

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OK, I can see why you'd find my initial response rude, but you didn't respond with anything other than paladins in final fantasy in either post. Nor did you answer anything in that post other than taking the low road and dropping down to my supposed level.

I saw what you posted in your second post. It's there in a quote. You're talking about White and Holy magics, but then go on to focus on White magic only, barely relating it to Holy magic. Paladins are holy people, they wield the light to smite down unholy enemies. They are not traditionally depicted as healers. In fact, I didn't bring up anything about wondering why they heal. It was a comment on their miscasting as healers in most fantasy games these days. They aren't healers. They wield the same magic as priests, and CAN heal, but that is not their primary purpose. It has NEVER been their primary purpose. So no, you didn't answer the question I never asked, try again.

And I don't care if my comparison annoys you, it's factual. I never said I wanted a tank that could do massive DPS, but that doesn't mean that there has never been a tank class capable of it. And yes, I do know of tanks in MMOs that do insane burst damage, as well as pretty impressive sustained DPS (and no, it should NEVER be on par with actual DPS, because for some reason you think that's what people want). The most obvious one is the Blood Death Knight. And yeah, it's stupid overpowered when it gets gear. That's Blizzard's fault though, they balanced it poorly.

But again, I don't care if they release a kind of tank that can do decent damage. I don't like tanking in hotkey combat games, it's not rewarding.

So don't get all on my case just because you think you're right. I'm willing to say sorry for coming off as rude in my initial response, but now I really don't care. You didn't give me any reasonable explanation beyond what I already knew, and what I already know is clearly not what I needed, otherwise we wouldn't be having this back and forth right now.

Paladins are not predominantly healers. They never were, and now they have ended up as such more often than they are shown as the righteous warriors and defenders of the light that they originally were. I don't care and I know why. I worded my original post poorly. It's not "I don't understand why", it is "I know why, but I don't really get why it caught on". That's why it was not a question, and if it had been one it would have been rhetorical.

I don't really have anything against you, but its obvious neither of us is capable of taking the high road. So I laid everything out, and I will read any response you post and consider it, but I won't be responding because this is going to get both of us banned or some crap, and I like my posting privileges. So feel free to respond, civilly or not, but don't expect a response. You can take that as you winning, or me running away. I don't care, because I've said my bit and you aren't likely to change my mind unless you post something so brilliant you reach a state of nirvana and Buddha himself likes your post.

It's okay, I reported SpookyGhost for demeaning you.

@SpookyGhost, please shape up your behavior for the future.

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

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Thanks for this I will read through it.

If we had a variety of Tanking Jobs then maybe players could play one they find appealing. And then that would decrease Queue times overall.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I'm all for Lancer Gaining Templar as a tank Job from the class.

It has a good number of defensive abilities that can be modified to be more effective for the Job itself, including a stun, a dedicated slow, a Parry Buff, and a Self-Heal skill.

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Templar sounds great coming from LNC.

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Originally Posted by indira

you wont see a DPS tank other wise thats the OP tank and the only tank people will invite for events.

each job has one role only, the so called armory is garbage in ARR.

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We don't have to have a "DPS Tank" like so many people keep saying. The point is to add a new Tank Class that other people might find enjoyable and by doing so it should lower the Queue time for DPS. It doesn't have to be an OP tank. Even then before SE buffed WAR I never seen one in CoB it was always PLD, Not just that but we have things called Duty Finder so beggars cant be choosers.



Anyways Lots of good positive post, Maybe SE will listen and do something about it. And give us new Tank Job when they give us Musketeer. The only other way to get pass long Queue times is to go PLD/WAR or make party on server.

White Magic IS holy magic, that's my point. Holy magic is divined intervention, using the power of the Gods to cure ailments or to restore health. That's what both are. You literally said "I also never understood how paladins came to be predominantly healers either.", which I explained. So I'm not sure how this doesn't answer your query, but okay.

The 2 tanks in the game already do moderate DPS outside of their tanking stance. If they could do the same damage, all the time, IN their tanking stance then every boss in the game would burn so quick you wouldn't even have to deal with half the mechanics. If they add a job in that is capable of doing this then there will never be an instance where WAR or PLD would be main tank. They would always be off tank, soley there to debuff the boss. In any 4 man content, the DPS-esque tank would always be the preferred choice. It's really imbalanced to introduce a job like that without overhauling everything. Maybe in 3.0 we could POSSIBLY see it, but it'd still be reaaaally messed up. Damage dealers who could sub NIN were insane tanks in XI, as well as NIN itself. It's just... impossible to make that work in content already available, and balancing future content around it (ignoring already available content) is just a bad idea.

Anyway, sorry for being so condescending. It was uncalled for. I'm sure you're not an idiot or anything, I'm likely just not explaining this well.

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It's okay, I reported SpookyGhost for demeaning you.

@SpookyGhost, please shape up your behavior for the future.

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OH NO, A DISAGREEMENT, HOW COULD THIS BE, BETTER TELL THE TEACHER

Jesus.

Id rather see a gun slinging class as iv seen some NPC's with guns and i feel it be a cool one

Going to break my word here just to say thank you for responding civilly, and that there was really no need to report anyone. I also understand your points, but White Magic is different than traditional Holy magic in fantasy. But that doesn't matter, I know what you're trying to say. This time for real no more responding though.

while I doubt this suggestion will gain much traction, I would like to see more utility abilities amongst classes that can contribute to helping others survive (eye for an eye, SS, apocatastasis). Maybe even focusing a class or two into these roles to allow classes such as monk and dragoon to take up OT duties or 4 man tanks. Obviously there are issues with this, as the abilities could be abused by purely using them on tanking classes to make them even more desirable for those tanking roles. Some tuning would have to be made to how the mechanics work, with some way to ensure monk and dragoon were desirable. But I believe this would lessen the tank shortage and allow for a little more diversity in roles for each class.

Ninja is one of my favourite jobs from FFXI, and I really hope SE adds it to this game, but.. I refuse to tank. Never tanked when I played it in FFXI.
I'll be pretty disappointed if it's added as a tank in XIV. I only play damage-dealer or healer. I really hope they keep it as a damage-dealer so I can continue to play the job I love.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

Going to break my word here just to say thank you for responding civilly, and that there was really no need to report anyone. I also understand your points, but White Magic is different than traditional Holy magic in fantasy. But that doesn't matter, I know what you're trying to say. This time for real no more responding though.

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No...Holy Magic and White Magic are one and the same. They come from the same source and cast all the same spells. All White Magic is sub classed as Holy Magic, that's why Cure, Regen, and Life deal damage to the undead, in traditional games, since they are creatures of dark magic. I think you are confused with Black Mages Black Magic which is different from Dark Magic since Black Magic pulls from the destructive forces of Nature while Dark magic stems from the underworld. But White Magic and Holy Magic are one and the same.

If you want to look at it from a church point of view, those who cast White Magic by itself (the white mages or priests) are the messengers of the holy order while the Paladins are the knights that defend the priests. They take a more physical role and still have access to the same holy magic that the White mages do, though usually at a much lower level due to needing to split their focus between wielding magic and learning the sword. They'd belong to the same group but both have different roles.

While no Paladins are not meant to be healers, they have access to the same powers that a healer has. This makes it easier on them as they can just patch themselves or others up with meager healing spells until a real healer gets there and allows them to prolong their time on the battle field.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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Why does everyone keep saying that a new tank has to be a DPS Tank? I said NIN because it would be easiest Tank Class to add, Cause they can pretty much Copy/Paste it from FFXI (yes I know NIN wasn't meant to be a tank in FFXI but that's the way it happened). Viking because it would fit into Ishgard story line when they open it (or at least it seems like the best choice for lore). People have already said Templar from LNC that would be a great choice to. They could add SAM or DRK but I think more player would prefer those to be DPS jobs (also I think that SAM was meant to be a tank in FFXI but don't hold me to that). Some have said Mystic Knight sounds fun they could buff themselves through their sword abilities.

There are a lot of different possibilities. I didn't ask for a DPS tank just because I said NIN/Viking (guess those sound DPSish). Any new tank class that other players find appealing to get them to play would be great, Even if its on a small fraction.

Off topic. I had party the other day with a WAR, IDK what he was doing but man was he pimp. Tanking and doing tons of DPS, idk if that's the new normal for WAR but his DPS was pretty amazing.

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Originally Posted by Mogi

Id rather see a gun slinging class as iv seen some NPC's with guns and i feel it be a cool one

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lol. Musketeer is coming it will ore than likely be the 1st new job in the game since the guild is already in the game.

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Originally Posted by Neralyte

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MNK is my main and I use Mantra all the time to help out in battle. Like a Titan jump or Garuda's crap or just when a tank is getting low. I would love to tank on MNK in FFXIV did it in FFXI a lot.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

Ninja is one of my favourite jobs from FFXI, and I really hope SE adds it to this game, but.. I refuse to tank. Never tanked when I played it in FFXI.
I'll be pretty disappointed if it's added as a tank in XIV. I only play damage-dealer or healer. I really hope they keep it as a damage-dealer so I can continue to play the job I love.

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We are lacking another DEX based job I could see them adding NIN in for DPS only and then add a different Job to tank. Like I said doesn't matter to me which Job they choose to add in long as we get a new Tank class more players would enjoy. But most likely Musketeer will be DEX base and share gear with BRD.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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I am Buddha and I like this post.

I think what the OP is really saying is that any new tank job should play more like a DPS to attract a different kind of player. Here's an idea along these lines. Bring in Beastmaster and make the pet the tank. The beastmaster would do damage mitigation for his pet by applying debuffs via rotations with combos. Make the damage done to the mob directly affect the amount of damage mitigation. Having a workable pet-tank will require solutions for AOE tanking and hate-generation abilities, but shouldn't be too hard to figure out. This idea would also work for DoM summoner style tank.

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Originally Posted by Muzy

This.

The problem is not the variety of tank classes, but more the role itself, people just don't want to deal with the crap that gets thrown at them as a tank if something goes sideways, or the responsibility, or just want to see big numbers.

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Obviously! I mean it can't be a combination of the two, that tanks generally follow one boring path through all sorts of games and if someone added something that's not heavy armor plodding it wouldn't get any new tanks. Nope.

Giving say Pugilists or Lancers a tanking option might not turn each and every one of them into a tank but I am damn sure there would be a few who would tank for shorter ques then go all in dps at the end(or not)

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Originally Posted by RafeMacleod

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Go back up about two post. I DON'T WANT A DPS TANK CLASS! I want SE to add a new tank class in the game when they add Musketeer. IDK how long you have been a lvl50 DRG but Queue times on a DPS job is ridiculous. I think a new Tank Job that is "new and flashy" would possibly attract more players, Cause not everyone likes playing WAR/PLD. As a few others have said, A lot of people choose their class based on appeal not the actual role. So it's not the Tank Role in itself, It's the Job that would attract some players. Even If only a handful of the population played the new class that's more tanks and eventually could lead to less Queue Times. I could care less about which job gets added, Long as people like it, Play it and the job preforms its responsibilities of a Tank.

I don't like playing the mage classes. But if they added a job which I liked to DoM, Then I would pick it up and play. See what I'm getting at? It doesn't have to be the role as much as it needs to be the right Class for the Job. Just because someone doesn't like to play a role doesn't mean they wouldn't play that role if their was a Job they liked added to it.

There has to be a balance in the game when it comes to Roles. Things would be different if we didn't have stupid long wait times just to do content. And I shouldn't have to roll on a tank job just to get to play the game (go 1sec queue on tank!).

BST is more of a solo type job.

Other games have tried it, notably Rift and TERA, Rift with the Rogue Tank soul and Cleric tank soul, the rogue tank was pretty effective, yet underplayed, the cleric? Not so great :P TERA had the Warrior tank, which started off life as an evasion tank with a stance that increased their defence and health by quite a bit, well... Long story short, they scrapped the evasion tanking for the most part and gave them a block mechanic. As well as the fact that again, the tank option was also barely played.

I know other games have tried similar options, and yet, tanks remain the most under played role, it matters little how interesting you try to make it, the fact remains, more people prefer the bigger numbers, lesser responsibility of a DPS, or prefer the whackamole gameplay of being a healer. A lot of people, even given a choice of tanking or DPSing in the same class, will go DPS even if the playstyle is barely different and take the longer queue times.

There are 5 dd jobs, 2 tanks, 2 healers. While most people will always want to be a dd, more variety will always be good. If there was more tanks, so long as they had different playstyle to their tanking, it will increase the overall amount of tanks.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

White Magic IS holy magic, that's my point.

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But its explicitly not. White magic in this game is explicitly a resource that needs to be carefully managed. Summoner is actually closer to drawing on divine power.. of course... its not your gods.

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Originally Posted by Muzy

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Well if adding new Tank Classes cannot help the Queue time for DPS, Then someone will have to figure out what will. Someone already said increasing party size, Having more players in a party could help. Or SE will have to add more Instanced servers (lol). It just sucks to stand around 30mins+ waiting to do something. I know I can't be the only player who feels this way about the long Queues. Also before anyone says anything. The Dailies only take a few mins to do, I have Crafting, Gathering is kind of pointless.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

There are 5 dd jobs, 2 tanks, 2 healers. While most people will always want to be a dd, more variety will always be good. If there was more tanks, so long as they had different playstyle to their tanking, it will increase the overall amount of tanks.

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Soon it will be 6DD when they add Musketeer.

Increased party size would help. Really, there is no perfect fix, other games, a half hour would be extremely short for a DPS solo queuing.

[Disclaimer: I did not read any of the responses to this thread, only the main post so I have no idea if this has been talked about, or not. ]

I've pretty much always played a tank in every game as my primary class, because I hate getting into a group with a tank who can't hold agro when I DPS or heal. That saying you've heard a thousand times on TV and in video games, 'if you want something done right, do it yourself' has been the basis of my choice in primary roles for the past decade I've been playing MMOs. I won't claim to be a great tank, but I'm at least competent. I'm actually MUCH better at healing in games than I am at tanking, but I've almost always had positive feedback from my tanking ability, with the occasional exception (Some people get mad if you don't like to use exploits :p Tanks are always encouraged to use them when they are found. I refuse).

That being said, as a career tank, I find my job is often very boring. I think the only MMO i've played that had a really INTERESTING tanking method was probably Rift. The rogue class tank was pretty new, to me at least. I've always been a firm believer in games utilizing hybrid classes, though. Dps tanks, Buffer tanks, debuffer tanks... There are lots of hybrids that work. I'll give an example of how I think each might work.

DPS Tank:
(This first idea requires a three hit combo for the basis, so here's how that works)
First attack: Increased enmity, 170 potency, melee range.
Second AttacK: Increased enmity, 200 potency, melee range
++Combo Bonus: Increases the damage of your next attack by 10%
Third attack: No enmity increase, 250 potency, melee range.
++Combo bonus: Reduces damage taken by an amount equal to 20% of damage dealt for 8 seconds.
(Have a trait boost it to 30% later on, or something. This means, if the attack hits for 500 damage (You'll be focusing more on str so you will hit harder than other tanks, and crit rates would be a huge boon to this bonus), the damage you take is reduced by 150 flat damage from each source. So, if a mob would usually hit you for 500 damage, it's reduced to 350. Since this is a self-buff, all mobs hitting you deal reduced damage.)
This concept basically forces you to build yourself to deal more damage in order to reduce the amount of damage you take. It would need an aoe for threat, of course, but this is the basic concept behind it. The AOE could even be a separate combo, that is three aoe hits with a similar idea behind it. Could even make it an evasion-based combo, increasing your chance to dodge.


Buffer Tank:
Well, this is much easier to explain. You have a tank that generates hate by making himself and the rest of the party stronger. He would need an attack combo with no extra enmity that does decent damage (so that you can still do your story quests with the class). You wouldn't be using that combo very often, because your job will be keeping the rest of the party buffed. Buff skills for DPS that increase their numbers/accuracy, a buff for mages that boost heal potency and reduce mana costs, and of course, a couple defensive buffs for themselves. All of these buffs would have a small aoe radius (like the one flash has) that also generate enmity on mobs in the area without dealing damage to them (also like flash).


Debuffer Tank:
Instead of making yourself more durable, you make the target weaker. You make it more susceptible to damage from your DPS, you make it deal less damage to yourself by reducing its attack potential, and you are able to crowd control. You do mediocre damage, in the process. Probably mostly DoT based. Make the DoT's have enmity that increases every tick until it reaches a cap. This way, if you keep applying the DoT's, they stay strong for threat. If you fail to apply them before they run out, you have to start again with them having lower threat.




Also, first post here!


Edit: Thought of a way to make the DPS tank AOE-viable without a separate combo.
At 15, your class quests unlock a toggle-able buff (like defiance or shield oath) that lasts indefinitely til you turn it off. It reduces the damage of your first and second combo skills by 25% and increases their tp cost by 25% but in turn, it makes them AOE. The third combo skill is not affected by the damage reduction or tp cost increase. It's entirely unchanged. You'd still single target it to get your damage reduction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

There are 5 dd jobs, 2 tanks, 2 healers. While most people will always want to be a dd, more variety will always be good. If there was more tanks, so long as they had different playstyle to their tanking, it will increase the overall amount of tanks.

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It won't really, all you will get are the people that have a tank class or both leveled right now level the new one so the number of available tanks will stay static, its not a role thing its a personality thing.

Considering I see tons of players standing around in the street in PLD and WAR AF2 and relic weapons, it's clearly not the amount of tank jobs in the game, or lack of them, but simply what has been mentioned - tanks have the most responsibility in a party, have to effectively lead the party and are the first to cop flak if something goes wrong.

Hence as most players play this game to relax and not add to their stress, they prefer to play as a class/Job that has the least responsibility - a la, DD classes. It's simply human nature.

And for the record my main is 50 GLA/PLD and I love the class/Job, and have found tanking to be very rewarding. But I admit it's not for everyone.

Two healers, two casters, two melee, two tanks, one ranged. I'd say it's time for another ranged class! :P