The "Saving the Economy" Super Thread! (ideas to save economy)

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Originally Posted by Draco

RMT are not the ones that pushed mats into the system. There are many many FC's that were stock piling raw materials because they thought that the housing system was going to be intelligent and require a FC to work together and actually build it. Now, it is just pay this much for this and so all these raw materials have been thrown into the system. That, and noone is crafting anything because once you get crafting to 50, there are no rewards for you to continue crafting items of all levels. Now you are left with gatherers flooding the markets with raw materials that noone is going to buy. THAT is driving down the cost of everything.

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Okay, now I'm not sure you actually understand how housing works. You purchase the lot from vendor (SE). It's up to the FC to build the walls, roof, door, window, furniture, flooring, etc, etc... So if they were storing raw material they are now using them to craft the house.

2.1 just killed the economy for high level crafts. Why buy i70 equipment with farming philo tomes is so easy. Getting darklight is so much easier, why waste your precious gil that needs to be saved just to buy a plot of land? Why buy i55 equipment to spiritbond when materia is just given away and you can't make any money on it now? It all just trickles down, nobody needs to make the 1 star materials to make high level equipment, therefore nobody needs to gather the high level materials to make those items. They need to stop giving so much stuff away for quests that take no time at all to finish. Give more gil for quests and less equipment, let some of that gil circulate through crafters, that will improve the economy.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Okay, now I'm not sure you actually understand how housing works. You purchase the lot from vendor (SE). It's up to the FC to build the walls, roof, door, window, furniture, flooring, etc, etc... So if they were storing raw material they are now using them to craft the house.

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That's assuming the FC can actually afford the lot, which 99% can't.

The ability to dye any item whatever color you want would help propagate selling of player made dyes. Thus in term giving us a reason to mine pigments and use them.

Crafted gear shouldn't be a replacement for end game gear obtained via a dungeon, but it shouldn't be forfeited either. If someone wants to craft gear to make their character better then why is the time it takes to gather the materials so demanding and the return lackluster?

They need to make an arbitrary system where you can succeed without feeling the need to jump through the same hoops, making materia more viable and crafting less useless for the beginner at end game would be the best option to stimulate the economy.



meh, I totally went off on a rant, I started with pigments and dyeing any items would be a good start too for economy growth and went left field. lol

First of all, I think the game is very good, just in need of more goals. The game as it is claims to be for hardcore to casual, but we all know that isn't the case. It is the way it is to counteract RMT, they designed this game by their actions in FFXI and 1.0.

1. The ability to level any job or craft from 1-50 in such a speedy manner helps prevent the selling of accounts, but it also eliminates the need for gearing up with crafted gear as you level. The gear you do need, you can get from quests, npcs, or dungeons. You are also usually not in gear long enough to SB it before you upgrade, thus there is no real point to making, using, or selling materia pre-40. Therefore crafters are forced to sell NQ gear very cheap, or sell HQ gear at minimal profits to tempt anyone into actually buying gear from the markets


2.) Resale of used items is pitiful. This again is an anti-rmt tactic to prevent the creation of gil into the market. Yet another reason why people are forced to sell crafted items so cheap as the alternative is usually 1gil to an npc.

3.) Crafted gear cannot be as strong as raid gear due to the selling of these items by RMT to get gil. This is only a real issue because it is so easy for anyone (RMT or not) to level a craft to 50.

4.) The removal of "notorious monsters" from the world and instead placing them within FATE as novelty bosses. Another anti-rmt measure to prevent the monopolizing of these monsters and there drops.

5.) Limiting the bonuses available from materia. I see two potential reasons for this, one is point number 3 above and the other is to prevent the sale of powerfully melded items for large sums of gil.

6.) Patch 2.1 took the only expensive items left on the market and reduced their gil cost to about 10% of pre-2.1 prices. This was done through treasure maps giving out philo items, tomes, and materials usually gained by high level gathering classes. Roulette giving out such a large amount of bonus tomes flooded the philo item market, daily quests, and quests that reward you with TIV material.

So how can any of these be addressed?

1.) Level caps starting at level 30. Based on your job, this could start off as something simple at level 30 like requiring hunting log completion to a certain rank. You could then expand on this later to include a specific dungeon win after starting the level cap quest. For crafters it could be completion of the crafting log to a point and perhaps creating and melding a certain amount of HQ items. None of these require slowing the xp gain while actually leveling or increasing the needed xp, but they create a "break" in the grinding process or fate party leveling. This would also prevent RMT from just grinding out an entire party from 1-50 in a day. It would also create a need for materia, lower level crafted items, and can help make use of lower level dungeons and guildhests instead of making them part of the level 50 story (lame way to reuse sunken temple and guildhest btw).

2.) Have each guild buy items that are for sale at NPCs in each city for 50% of the NPC sale price. Only have items for sale at an NPC if those items have actually been turned in at the guilds. For general gear level 1-40 you could have both NQ and HQ items bought and sold this way. If the market becomes flooded, people will sell to the guild and that item will become available at the NPCs for a set price. This would prevent items being sold at exorbitant prices as well. Allow people to sell to only one guild a week to prevent abuse.

3.) Allow the crafting of raid level gear by using untradeable materials obtained in a raid or dungeon. Potentially from primals as well. Make the items crafted also untradeable. This would make having a crafting class desireable as there is no point other then "because you can" right now. You could also allow the crafting of these items BY a crafter for the person holding them.

4.) Treasure maps have gone in the right direction, but require more diversity and actually have potential to drop something valuable, see point 3 above. You could also add some lower level drops to FATE NMs at a very low drop rate.

5.) Have craftable untradeable items that are not quite as good as raid gear, but have materia slots. Thus giving the potential to be more powerful if melded correctly. You could also have untradeable materia drop that must be used for melding to these special items.

I personally wouldn't mind a item encyclopedia/log for items collected, which could give various rewards for collecting items, even if the rewards were just unlocking additional information on the item (trivia facts, crafting info, drop info, etc). Might give people a reason to purchase during an economic slump, and I'm sure collectors would love the challenge of completing their book.

Reduce the rate at which materials can be earned form the game.

Cap the HQ chance for crafted items at 80%.

Lower the rate of earning philosophy tomes.

Change the system of turn ins for grand company supply missions. Remove the daily cap, lower the experience rewards and allow people to turn in any amount at a given time.

Expand the Beastman Reputation system to allow people to do supply missions for reputation using much the same system as described above.

Lower the amount of gil coming in to the economy.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Okay, now I'm not sure you actually understand how housing works. You purchase the lot from vendor (SE). It's up to the FC to build the walls, roof, door, window, furniture, flooring, etc, etc... So if they were storing raw material they are now using them to craft the house.

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Yes, but does it take hundreds, and maybe thousands of lumber and raw materials to build each one of these items. This is what many people were thinking that housing would be like and started stock piling thousands of raw materials.

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Originally Posted by Rath

1.) Level caps starting at level 30. Based on your job, this could start off as something simple at level 30 like requiring hunting log completion to a certain rank. You could then expand on this later to include a specific dungeon win after starting the level cap quest. For crafters it could be completion of the crafting log to a point and perhaps creating and melding a certain amount of HQ items. None of these require slowing the xp gain while actually leveling or increasing the needed xp, but they create a "break" in the grinding process or fate party leveling. This would also prevent RMT from just grinding out an entire party from 1-50 in a day. It would also create a need for materia, lower level crafted items, and can help make use of lower level dungeons and guildhests instead of making them part of the level 50 story (lame way to reuse sunken temple and guildhest btw).

2.) Have each guild buy items that are for sale at NPCs in each city for 50% of the NPC sale price. Only have items for sale at an NPC if those items have actually been turned in at the guilds. For general gear level 1-40 you could have both NQ and HQ items bought and sold this way. If the market becomes flooded, people will sell to the guild and that item will become available at the NPCs for a set price. This would prevent items being sold at exorbitant prices as well. Allow people to sell to only one guild a week to prevent abuse.

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XI does 1) well with Maat, and 2) sounds like it could work if well implemented.

Another thing I take issue with is materia not raising iLvl, meaning crafted HQ iLvl 70 penta-melded is still counted as iLvl 70. Whether or not allowing materia to affect iLvl would increase demand for penta-melded HQ gear, I don't know, but it's an idea (no idea how you could get it to work though. Perhaps based off stats?).

Also, blind bidding on the market boards {Can I have it?}

i think it was a bad idea for them to make all crafts and gatherers available to a single character. kinda shot themselves in the foot there

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

i think it was a bad idea for them to make all crafts and gatherers available to a single character. kinda shot themselves in the foot there

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Was not a problem in 11. It should not be a problem in this game either.

How about Ilvl 80 crafted gear with mytho items

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Originally Posted by Draco

Was not a problem in 11. It should not be a problem in this game either.

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what was the difference on 11 with 14 since ive never played it? cuz right now i only see certain crafts that net reasonable returns and the rest that offers pretty much nothing (alchemist anyone?).

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

what was the difference on 11 with 14 since ive never played it? cuz right now i only see certain crafts that net reasonable returns and the rest that offers pretty much nothing (alchemist anyone?).

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Alchemy would be way better if potion cooldowns made more sense. I understand a healing potion having the cooldown it has, however, an antidote having the same cooldown as a regular healing potion makes absolutely no sense. It is not as if you ever go against an enemy that poisons you once every 90 seconds lol. Using antidote repeatedly if the situation calls for it makes sense and should be that way. It is like that in other mmo's. The problem is every time we bring up something that makes perfectly good sense, SE responds " That is working as intended" or " We do not want to invalidate the White Mage class". Basically, some line telling us how they want us to play the game that we are paying for.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

what was the difference on 11 with 14 since ive never played it? cuz right now i only see certain crafts that net reasonable returns and the rest that offers pretty much nothing (alchemist anyone?).

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Crafting in FFXI was 50% luck, 50% how insanely much you put into the grind.

You could level every craft to 60, then you have 40 levels to distribute among all your crafters, max level of 100 in one craft with 60 in all others, or 80/80/rest 60, etc.

There was no skill behind it, just throw items together, chance of success/HQ depended on level of your craft(s) vs level of recipe.

Leveling up was a random chance at a 0.1-0.5 increase in level for attempting a synth high enough to boost you. Most of the last 20 levels was spent doing 10 useless synths of hard to get items for that 0.1 increase.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Crafting in FFXI was 50% luck, 50% how insanely much you put into the grind.

You could level every craft to 60, then you have 40 levels to distribute among all your crafters, max level of 100 in one craft with 60 in all others, or 80/80/rest 60, etc.

There was no skill behind it, just throw items together, chance of success/HQ depended on level of your craft(s) vs level of recipe.

Leveling up was a random chance at a 0.1-0.5 increase in level for attempting a synth high enough to boost you. Most of the last 20 levels was spent doing 10 useless synths of hard to get items for that 0.1 increase.

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that actually makes more sense. at least in terms of limiting the amount of crafting u can get maxed. czu as of right now, i dont even have to buy any mats from the AH since i can get and/or make them all on my own. Therein lies the problem that's causing the economy to stagnate over time.

- NPCs mustn't sell any items which can be obtained by other means. Exception: basic level 1-15 gear

- Anything which is crraftable may not be quest rewards. Exception: Low-level medicine and food

- Make bosses drop unsellable and untradable ingredients. Also avoids RMT.

- Don't give everyone all recipes. Make them rare drops, quest rewards, etc. Like in the early days of 1.0. Also avoids RMT.

- Implement recipe chains, e.g. recipe for B requires a HQ version of recipe A which itself required untradable mats.

- Bring back cross-class recipes like back in 1.0, e.g. a high level armor requiring lvl 50 ARM and lvl 40 LTW

- Never drop food, gear > level 15, medicine or even materia as quest rewards.

- Keep rare items rare, instead of handing them out to everyone. Create rare ingredients (meaning: not 10+ up on the AH for sale).

- Implement drop caps, e.g. never allow more than 10'000 electrurm ores in circulation. If this happens, mines are simply depleted, trees need to grow again, etc.

- Remove the 100% possibility of crafting HQ items from NQ mats.

- Stop throwing exp at gatherers and crafters like cheap candy. Make their quests and leves drop ingredients or recipes only, no exp.

- Place ilvl caps on dungeons, or remove ilvl completely. ilvl must not exceed the player level, otherwise it needs to be synced down, or ilvl of frequent dops reduced to the dungeon level.

- Give food and medicine noticable effects, reduce the stats of gear. Medicine effects should last as long as their cooldown.

- Make gathering fun again, and reduce drrop rates, by bringing back the mini-games from 1.x. Also helps avoiding RMT (there were no really working gathering bots on the market back then). Make nodes appear on random locations. Make MIN and BTN drops random, like FSH.

- Gathering attempts must never reach a 100% success rate (at the moment, they never drop below 100% for a lvl 50 char).

- Remove Stealth, drop ingredients for high level items only in dangerous places.

- Let gear break when it reaches a 0% condition. Should only be convertible then, but not repairable. Remove repair NPCs and bring back the repair mechanics from the time of patch 1.23.

- Make all gear convertible. Make convert results more random and allow lower rank caps.

- Make 5-melded gear as powerful as dungeon rewards.

- Offer an API to the markets or implement it on the Lodestone, something equal to the old ffxiah.com. Prices, sales, and pricing trends should be checkable online on the web and not just in-game via the market board UI.

- Make gil exchangeable into Crysta at a dynamic conversion rate. Also helps killing RMT.

- Transfer the responsibility concerning the markets to an employee with a proper education in economy, and not a regular game designer.

Stop making all this stuff people should be gathering availible for 2 gil from a vendor.

@ SolArisa

I like many of your ideas that you came up with. However, I don't think that they need to change the way items are crafted, or gathered, or the amount of items that are gathered and crafted at once or the amount of items in circulation. The problem with gathering and crafting is that, it it's current state, it is ill-legitimized. Currently, there is no demand for many many high level crafters because there is nothing really for them to do. This creates a problem for gatherers, as with nothing for crafters to do, there is no one buying raw materials from gatherers or even hunters. All they have to do is come up with a system that makes crafters and gatherers actually use their trades in the open market. If you go to the first page and look at my post, you will see a great idea for that. Tell me what you think. I do like the idea though of removing 100% chances from gathering, and HQ's. I also do not think that implementing more anti RMT measures is necessary. EVERY MMO has RMT. EVERY MMO will always have RMT no matter what you do. Creating and designing a game to include heavy anti RMT measures just makes for a lesser of an experience for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

Stop making all this stuff people should be gathering availible for 2 gil from a vendor.

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I totally agree with you on this.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

that actually makes more sense. at least in terms of limiting the amount of crafting u can get maxed. czu as of right now, i dont even have to buy any mats from the AH since i can get and/or make them all on my own. Therein lies the problem that's causing the economy to stagnate over time.

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I really don't think that's it.

If I had to rely on others as I do in other MMO crafting systems, I probably wouldn't participate in the crafting system at all.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

Stop making all this stuff people should be gathering availible for 2 gil from a vendor.

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Plenty aren't sold by vendors.

Speaking of which, they just took some off the vendors.

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Originally Posted by SolArisa

- Make bosses drop unsellable and untradable ingredients. Also avoids RMT.

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So I have to farm the dungeon which drops gear of the same level as what I'm trying to craft, to get some of the materials for the item I'm trying to craft.

Why wouldn't I just farm the gear from the dungeon directly at that point?

I've read through this thread, and most of these suggestions might make crafting more engaging for a small niche of the community (devoted crafters and devoted market traders), but would absolutely tank interest in crafting for the general populace, the same as it has in practically every other MMO I've played. Seeing as the gear is quickly eclipsed while leveling, and isn't on par with the current max level gear even as they release another source of gear (PvP) which actually does offer max level pieces, what makes you think the average player would be interested in crafting at all?

Devoted crafters are VERY interested in seeing interest in crafting absolutely tank for the general populace. The less competition the better! :D However, the best way to make interest tank is to make crafting an obnoxious, boring grind, as it was in FFXI. Crafting is an enjoyable pasttime in FFXIV, and I'd prefer it to stay that way.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a limit on the number of crafts that can be taken to cap, as was the case in FFXI. It's sort of silly that every crafter is eventually going to be an EVERYTHING crafter; you can't really identify yourself as a Goldsmith main, for instance, because the very act of being a devoted Goldsmith means that you should have everything else at 50 as well for the cross-class skills. If SE raises job level caps in the future, they may want to consider forcing crafters to choose only one craft to level beyond 50.

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Originally Posted by Millimidget

I've read through this thread, and most of these suggestions might make crafting more engaging for a small niche of the community (devoted crafters and devoted market traders), but would absolutely tank interest in crafting for the general populace, the same as it has in practically every other MMO I've played. Seeing as the gear is quickly eclipsed while leveling, and isn't on par with the current max level gear even as they release another source of gear (PvP) which actually does offer max level pieces, what makes you think the average player would be interested in crafting at all?

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Why would you create content for people who have no interest in it? Or worry about tanking interest for those uninterested already. In my mind it makes more sense to develop the future of crafting and gathering specifically for those who want to do it, not for those who don't want to.

1. In 2.2 raise the crafting level cap to 60 or 70 hell even 100 like they did in ffxi, do the same for gathering. Then make it so you can only pick one craft you can specialize in and level to that new cap. This will take away the I have all crafts leveled I can craft whatever I want. Right now one of the biggest problems is market saturation, this will alleviate some of that.

2. Make bosses drop craft mats going forward, these craft mats can then be crafted into armor.

3. Bring back rare items. Instead of this hey anyone can get said item, bring back rare drops like venomous claws from ffxi that were dropped from certain bosses and made a highly desirable piece of gear called a scorpion harness. All you need to do now is run instances farm your tomes and you have the same gear as everyone else, that's pretty boring.

4. Create endgame gear with comparable stats to end game content. The caveat? Add one materia socket to them. That way you will see people wanting to buy/create these items and see them being used. This would swing the power back to crafting and stabilizing the market. Yeah I like the stats on my Myth tome gear, but If i could get the same stats with a marginal increase via materia, I'd go for it.

An example - Currently Allagan body offers 34 accuracy. Create an endgame body piece with the same stats and give it 28 accuracy and one materia slot. If i'm accuracy capped like I currently am I can add a different stat to my gear, if I need that extra acc I could throw a accuracy materia in there to hit or even exceed the cap.

The materia system is nice, but it's silly it's not used in anything endgame because all the gear we get is from instances/tomes and has no sockets.

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Originally Posted by Fenwick

Why would you create content for people who have no interest in it? Or worry about tanking interest for those uninterested already. In my mind it makes more sense to develop the future of crafting and gathering specifically for those who want to do it, not for those who don't want to.

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What are you crafting that you can't make money off of?

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Originally Posted by Millimidget

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Ignoring the fact that you're completely ignoring my point. I'm not sure what the numbers you're looking at on your server are like, but aside from some choice food, very little is worth crafting here. If you're lucky you'll break even on what the materials themselves are worth.

The only way to make any meaningful gil off of crafting is to break it down into materia, which is less effective now because SE crashed most of that market by giving Materia IV as quest rewards. Essentially they took potentially every character in the entire game, and injected that many Materia IV into the game, times it by four because that is how many you get.

Quicktongue III is worth 22k/p on Excalibur, Quicktongue IV is worth 17k/p.

Steel Ingots went for 600g/p, SE put them available on a vendor in 2.1 and the price is now 120g/p. This is only one example this has happened with every single material added to a vendor in 2.1, they are essentially killing their own economy by putting artificial caps as to how much you can make on certain materials.

The materials that aren't available are farmed so much or given so casually via Treasure Maps, most aren't worth 100g and a large chunk of what gear you can craft is either overshadowed completely by DL/CT or also available on a vendor at the leveling camps.

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Originally Posted by Millimidget

What are you crafting that you can't make money off of?

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On my server as a GSM there is just so much supply and so little demand that you constantly get undercut when you list your items. I sell level 49 rings, selling price for hq's used to be 5500, then as the rest of the masses leveled they dropped that in half. Now you see people selling HQ's for less than NQ's just so their stuff can sell. The saturation of items on the market is one of the reasons no one is able to make a good profit.

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Originally Posted by Fenwick

The only way to make any meaningful gil off of crafting is to break it down into materia

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No it's not.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

I sell level 49 rings, selling price for hq's used to be 5500, then as the rest of the masses leveled they dropped that in half. Now you see people selling HQ's for less than NQ's just so their stuff can sell.

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Is that 5500 number accurate? Or do you mean 55000?

EDIT: Looking at the market boards, I'd say 5500 was correct. You can make as much or more selling practically anything lower level than that.

Save the economy? Oh i think its far to late for that personally. They would have to revamp the whole system and i think they know it.

First off they have to make it where you aren't given free armor from quests, thus making crafters 1-50 viable.

They should also remove vendors that sell armor as well. This just circumvents the whole reason on having crafters in the first place.

Next lose this stupid high priced housing bs... this is just causing people to hoard money and is pointless anyway. Its making the furniture market tank as well. Not even sure how they didnt see this one comming. Instead have people buy lots for a reasonable high price then let them bring CRAFTERS to actually build different aspects of the house... a true house raising so to speak. That alone would help stir the market.

Bring out a card game and an arena to face other people and maybe even bet gil. Or ill do one better, make a gil sink kind of "golden saucer with the card game and many other things to do. put the pvp in there, let people watch, or maybe let people fight of waves of monsters. The posibilities are endless.

As it stands right now, theres just not much to spend gil on. Crafters are useless due to the free armor garbage 1-50 and fate grind. And end game is worse. People just get free armor via tomes or dungeon drops.

Well thats all im putting in for now. I personally think its too late lol. They would have to change many things to pull it out of the fire now.

Okay, I’m functioning on less than 2 hours sleep within the last 48 hours, so these might or might not make sense:

Remove most gear as quest rewards except a few quests
That level 5 check you get early on? You need to buy from either market or NPC at least two slots, though it’ll likely be all except the custom-made body slot.

Less productivity when crafting
Everyone can craft a dozen HQ rings in half an hour. That’s a lot of rings entering the market. How about lowering the HQ percentage and also making crafting a bit more time-consuming (Quick Synth should take thrice as long for the amount of stuff you get if you, for example, craft 99 leathers). This slows down the influx of items.

Lots of special crafting stuff can be found in dungeons
Such as ingredients and gear (alternatives to Luminaries found in CT/Coil?). These can then be sold by raiders/battle lovers (or they might be able to commission what they want), thus giving them an income from crafters.

There are BiS craftable gear
This shouldn’t even be up for discussion. If a hardcore anti-crafter wants BiS, he can either commission a crafter to make it for him, or buy it from the market.

Extensive commission system
The commissioner puts up a notice near the market board and gets a few answers. They can see the iLevel and rate of success and HQ when picking the crafter they want, and submit materials and gil. The crafter then crafts the item and submits it, getting their gil. Sometimes, NPCs wants very expensive commissions that’s like hitting the jackpot for crafters.

FC Housing needs a bit of an overhaul
Plot price for largest and best location should never go above 100 million (50mil for large land plot, 50mil for location. Smallest plot/worst location would be around 1mil). Then crafters and gatherers are needed (or you’ll hire a substantially more expensive NPC) to build the house.

This is the craft/gatherer equivalent of Coil/XM Primals as each floor of a large house needs at least 10 000 raw wood, for example, that then needs to be crafted into useable wood by carpenters (and alloys need to be made by ARM/BSM which are then turned into proper nails/hinges/whatever by GSM). Crafters then need to spend a certain time at the plot building it (or hiring an expensive NPC).

Afterwards, once a month, there is a bill of 100 000 (if largest/best location) and a 100 (not dependant on location, but on house size) of each material is needed for upkeep (can also hire steward/maid/butler/FC retainer who automatically use the funds/materials given to them to keep up the house/bill payments. Of course, they also needs to be paid).

Potions need their own, separate cool-downs, and reduce it by 25%
Just to make alchemist a bit more attractive.

Elemental strengths and weaknesses
Just to diversify things and keep the money flowing; for example, you cannot beat XM Ifrit without fire-resistant gear and ice-attributed (through either materia or special weapons) weapon without a lot of difficulty. This means that more gear will be bought and sold.

Boost Leve money rewards
About twice as much would be good, since we need a lot of fountains to go with the gil drains. (Also, boost the allowances a bit.)

Daily Gathering contests
Once a day, gathering guilds call their gatherers task; Miners/Botanists compete on who can gather the most NQ/HQ (separate categories such as Most NQ and Most HQ and Most Overall) and turn for great rewards, as well as Fishers try to snag the best fish they can find (size, quality, type of fish are different categories with different levels of rewards, so the largest HQ Princess Trout might only get 100 gil, but largest HQ 1-5 level fish might get 1000 gil, while levels 1-15 gets 2500 gil, and 1-30 gets 5000 gil and levels 1-50 gets 10 000 gil).

Personal housing stuff
A lot like FC housing, only a lot cheaper; smallest on worst plot is 100 000 gil, while largest and best plot is 10mil. Subject to same bills and taxation and so on.

Bounty hunting
What it says on the tin; at the Adventurers’ Guild, there sometimes pops up new NPCs who want you to hunt down a boss-level monster for them. If you help a farmer/miner/fisher, you get meager gil reward but a week’s boost to gathering (gathering HQ materials). If you help a Yellowjacket, you get a reduction in Limsa Lominsa market taxes and so on. Is recommended to do in parties, but has a few solo-bosses and a few solo-with-NPC-party.

Have a really good Vanity system
Crafters can learn patterns by picking apart uncraftable items (destroying them, unless it’s a one-off item, in which case there is a quest in the corresponding guilds that teaches the patterns when crafting level and gear’s class level reaches 50) which they then can freely apply to any piece of gear. Likewise, dyeing is unrestricted.

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Originally Posted by Draco

Was not a problem in 11. It should not be a problem in this game either.

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Also wasn't a problem in 1.0.

In order to agree with anyone, I need to see numbers.

We need to see if the overall gil in circulation is decreasing daily, which could indicate that the economy is doing bad.

Until then any idea to change the economy is not necessary because we really don't know if the economy is doing bad or good. Looking at the prices fall on items does not necessarily indicate a bad economy. Looking at the overall gil circulated each day provides a much much better analysis of the market.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

In order to agree with anyone, I need to see numbers.

We need to see if the overall gil in circulation is decreasing daily, which could indicate that the economy is doing bad.

Until then any idea to change the economy is not necessary because we really don't know if the economy is doing bad or good. Looking at the prices fall on items does not necessarily indicate a bad economy. Looking at the overall gil circulated each day provides a much much better analysis of the market.

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Umm...please be mindful of economic remarks when trying to use the word "economy" in your argument. Especially...well we have something call the consumer price index aka CPI. that is a very big thing, ya know in tracking important stuff like inflation/deflation/etc. A lesser known, but equally important is the producers price index, or PPI, as well as of course GDP etc.

And pretty much most of them are reflected in the virtual world of the almightly auction house, or market board in this case.

You don't need all that to tell you that there is a credit freeze in place due to the housing collapse that is 2.1. (That's how severe it is when you can eyeball it and see a problem)

The PPI is easily shot, and the CPI drop like a rock. And if you tweak the calculation of what is considered GDP...it is a very troubling economy.

The biggest difference in virtual economies is that we have zero cost of living (we are immortal in the virtual world) and thus no debt calculations, nonetheless, indexes are still relevant in assessing economic functions or lackthereof.

White knights shouldn't try to use economics as a shield if they are not going to use "economics".

If SE actually when through and cleaned out the farming bots it would help a ton. Wipe out all their goods they are selling on the market as well. When a normal person can farm "x" amount of raw mats and a bot can farm "x^10" is the same amount of time, it's always going to crash the economy.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

White knights shouldn't try to use economics as a shield if they are not going to use "economics".

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The fact I was labeled a white knight for being neutral on the situation without sufficient numbers is silly.

We understand the difference in virtual and in the real world. We shouldn't even be considering things like the cost of living~

Without numbers to support that the economy is crashing we can't say anything or support anything.

We know that if the overall gil in circulation maintains the same everyday but the prices of items drop. It tells us that gil distribution has been smeared out into the economy where as before it was funneled heavily in certain markets. Meaning players have to spread out their markets a bit to get gil.

If the overall gil in circulation everyday continues to drop as prices continue to drop. We can expect a crash. ATM, people see the price drops but what we don't know is that is the overall gil in circulation also dropping.

However we can't say one or the other without hard evidence. Meaning we can't be saying we want this and that change based on the fact that this is happening when it may or not actually be.

I agree with making all dungeon gear non convertible. I am 50 all crafts.. I do use a lot of materia, but I've only requested meld from a few people over the course of leveling 3 different toons to 50. It is a pain to find someone who won't charge a small fortune to push a button, so for me it was easier to level all the crafts and do it myself. I personally don't care to run any more dungeons than I have to. And I'm sure there are many other players like me who won't be using dungeon gear. I've met quite a few.