Planned Adjustments to PvP

There are just 2 problems that annoy me in PvP: intentional AFK'ers & the odd hop/warp issue where I see players every 5 seconds jump to a different part of the map. As a mage I don't see any PvP ability that gives a warp/jump ability that places you beyond my ability to do a jump attack or to actually make a leap at that distance. Of course seeing is believing so I'm sure it'll come out more in next days

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Originally Posted by Starrywisdom

All the bot has to do is activate duty finder and join queue. Been at least 3-4 people over the past week that I can remember BY NAME because they'e shown up in my queue that much. They've been reported multiple times - by me and the other people in just my matches.

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I'm pretty sure your mistaken. But if you can remember these players, I would like you to back it up by giving us links to their load stone profiles. Like here, I found yours just thru your name.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...aracter/13750/

Please offer some proof. Not wild accusations that bots are ruining PvP.

Sadly the new thing to be addressed would be smn doing this driveby debuff spam that decimates groups before they even get to move.

Heck while we're at it please consider a few more changes:

Tempered Will and Miasma don't work properly; With TW on it will remove the heavy effect for a moment then apply it again. Does miasma have a heavy reapplication every tic? is this a bug or a feature?

Enliven needs a starting recast time of 60 secs and a lv3 recast time of something usable like 40ish secs. We know the 300 sec stuff is streamlined for nearly every ability and doesn't take any actual field application into use, so please consider this.

Please also nerf 90k as we've been getting more of this since the last update.

If they're gonna nerf SMN for PVP, can my BRD get his stuff back for PVE? -_-

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Originally Posted by morpheus

It really is that easy.

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Idk... you might think the xbox isn't always on... but the cake is a lie! It actually is always on... its watching you right now... even if you don't own one yourself... its watching you... always... watching... you!!!

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Originally Posted by docbon

Currently laughing in the general direction of those who insisted summoners wouldn't be nerfed.

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Same :) I can't wait to see how SE will adjust them

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Originally Posted by LongNu

I'm surprised the MRD fotm isn't being looked at.

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My solution to fix MRD would be to only allow people with their soul equipped to queue for wolve's den.

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But yeah, the fact they didn't balance SMN by making their damage + pet damage = roughly the same damage as another class is extremely silly. Every time we have a SMN in our group they out-DPS everyone the majority of the time.

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Damage output is not the problem with summoner, in fact a geared marauder with the right setup can easily outDPS a SMN. I am really suprised at the lack of OMG MRD OP crying on this forum. a well played maruader is seriously godly. ive gotten hit for nearly 2k damage in one s hot and dead in 3 hits by one once. even on SMN I can't do that, 3 dots > fester > wither > aetheric burst isn't quite enough to take most people down without lucky crits. While I am #1 DPS fairly often, whenever I see a Marauder in the party, they do some serious damage and usually outdamage me- And they aren't even classed as DPS.

The thing that makes SMN OP to most people is its utility functions. While I don't agree with all of it, SMN is still powerful in this regard, as smn can slow down runners, reduce healing on them drastically, bind them, blind them, etc. Battle raise is nice, but with it restoring only 10% of parameters, the healer has to be really fast or that guy is just going to drop again 2 seconds later, wasting the mana of the SMN and getting minimal benefit.

Miasma is almost certain to get a nerf. Both SMN and SCH have access to it and its equally effective from both. This alone would bring SMN close to balance. drastically reduce the healing debuff and reduce the heavy effect and then it's little more than just another DoT.

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My solution to fix MRD would be to only allow people with their soul equipped to queue for wolve's den.

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This isn't much of a solution because classes are supposed to be viable. They are already rarely used once jobs are available, the few cases where they are useful shouldn't be taken away.

"While we continue working on this issue, I would like to ask that until this issue is addressed, please try not to use the jump as an intentional dodge maneuver against melee attacks."

You really don't know the behavior of MMO players do you?

While we continue working on this issue, I would like to ask that until this issue is addressed, please try not to use the jump as an intentional dodge maneuver against melee attacks.

Aha ha))) Yoshi lives in another world, on another planet)))

I don't know if i should call it the funny part, but meanwhile i see more melees abusing bunnyhop then other classes.

I just love how the devs only react like a flash when they see a "QQ-SMN iz OP!!" thread and they nerf them asap xD
Since it was just too hard to make a disease/miasma/bio/bind/blind resistance attribute it seems.

But as long as those things will stay in PvP I couldn't be happier - as long as they stay away from more "PvE because PvP"-nerfs it's totally cool (looking at Sustain, Virus and Thunder...).

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Gaining advantages by joining in 3 person parties

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Haven't been following the forums, but knew this was going to happen when I joined a four man group looking to PvP and waited about twenty minutes before dissolving the group as it wasn't happening - not an instance reservation problem, but just no pop, but many 'solo' queues I came up against where a definite three man stack with one other soul along for the ride. Yeah, yeah, everyone wants a challenge, to be the best - oh wait, an easy way, better bandwagon that as quick as we can.

That isn't to say it is the same on every server group, but on mine (Chaos) it has totally put me off participating as it is just a complete waste of time.
Exchange rates being lowered is nice for sure.

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Originally Posted by docbon

Currently laughing in the general direction of those who insisted summoners wouldn't be nerfed.

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oh i knew casters like SMN were gonna get nerf. apparently if 2.1 is indicator of SE methods, if anybody scream "OMG NERFZ" SE will nerf whatever class that has too much QQ;however, i will say that i was surprised that the changes to casters classes will remain in pvp. this was my real issue along as pvp balance does cause pve imbalance, but since all changes will just be in pvp...GG.


also, im too im looking toward to all the 2.15 changes. i wonder what will be the new excuse when you still cant play and win competitively in pvp? maybe SE should need to nerf all your opponents keyboards and mices/controllers next...clearly it too OP. ;D

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Instant cast rez just needs to be removed its so broken. You can leave in normal casted raise because if people don't interrupt you then they deserve to have someone rezaed.

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I don't care about PvP myself but why would they remove this, I mean it can be used an any dungeon so why should PvP be any different?

I hope that DRG/MNK becomes the next big thing so everyone will focus them first. They won't even be able to come and do damage because everyone will actually want to kill them. It will be glorious.

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Originally Posted by Wobble

I don't care about PvP myself but why would they remove this, I mean it can be used an any dungeon so why should PvP be any different?

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Fight against any above average SMN comp and come back saying the same, I dare you. It's just absurd when you can kill both SMN AND HEALER 4 times and still manage to lose because your healer just can't keep up anymore.

In short, apples and oranges.

That rez means an entirelly different thing both in PVP and PVE. Imagine if instead of fighting 1 raid boss as usual, you have to fight 2, split dps because if you leave one without enough preassure will keep healing the other, and after you kill one the one alive can rez the other instantly and do so again every minute.

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Originally Posted by Wobble

I don't care about PvP myself but why would they remove this, I mean it can be used an any dungeon so why should PvP be any different?

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Because in a well-balanced 4v4 match, just getting one person down is nothing to sneeze at, and the ability to negate that move in about 2 GCDs (with a WHM) or 3-4 (with a SCH) is really strong. On top of that, a group isn't limited to just 1 rez per party, since SMNs can also cast their own version of Raise, it makes taking out an enemy suddenly a much harder situation.

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Originally Posted by Regis

I hope that DRG/MNK becomes the next big thing so everyone will focus them first. They won't even be able to come and do damage because everyone will actually want to kill them. It will be glorious.

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You sound a lil bit hurt about warranted smn nerfs, guess now you might actually have 2 be good

"I would like to ask that until this issue is addressed, please try not to use the jump as an intentional dodge maneuver against melee attacks."

I don't even do PvP but that's funny stuff right there.

People still saying Smn doesn't need to be nerfed need to get real.

I'm a Smn and I KNOW how over powered they are. In my average winning match I'm doing up to 3x the damage of any other given DPS in my group. Their total damage may hit somewhere in the 5-8k range meanwhile I'm hitting upwards of 16k or higher if I'm lucky.

I'm truly hoping that the proposed changes to Sch involves some massive nerf to lustrate. It is hard enough dealing with a Whm when they toss out Benediction at the last second but at least that ability is on a 5 minute cooldown so you rarely ever see it used more than once. But lustrate? A potential 75% instant health restoration every 60 seconds? And they start off every match with the ability to instantly pull it off twice? Now THAT is over powered.

I'm a Summoner and I don't want to even look at my pvp record cause it's so bad. Summoner's are the easiest class to shut down especially if a Warrior or Paladin is sitting on them and stun locking usually when a tank sits on me in about 3 hits I'm dead. Here's how my pvp goes Tank stun locks Bard interrupts and I just put the controller down cause I know I'm dead. I agree if a Summoner gets there dots off and a brain dead party ignores them and chases the healer than we sit back and pour on the damage or if we get a 2 Summoner or 2 caster comp that's op, but realistically unless they change direct damage interrupting casting mechanic Summoner's should not be nerfed so people who don't know there classes can face roll Summoner's and get an easier kill.

I approve of these changes.

Thank you SE.

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Fight against any above average SMN comp and come back saying the same, I dare you. It's just absurd when you can kill both SMN AND HEALER 4 times and still manage to lose because your healer just can't keep up anymore.

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"above average" is a key phrase here. You can't just toss regular ressurect any old time, have the person get up any old time and have it work. If anyone is nearby while you're raising, they will just camp your rising body and kill you instantly once you become targetable before you can get cured because your HP starts low enough to be killed in one hit. It takes intelligence to know when and where to use it and when to get up. I don't usually bother trying to raise anyone other than the healer because they always die right away. Healers are much better because in PvP they can raise someone with much more HP/MP/TP.

There are some issues with ACN/SMN/SCH but raise isn't one of them. Miasma and miasma Ii stick out like a sore thumb as OP. That I can understand being nerfed. Ressurect on the other hand is easily stoppable by camping and doesn't need to be removed or changed, especially when other potential PvP locations are considered. It may be slightly better in the arena where the healers are guaranteed to be close by but I doubt it will be as effective in frontlines unless the area for that is the size of a fishbowl too.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

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Why the hell would I play as a pugilist in pvp? Or as an arcanist instead of sch/smn? Or as a lancer? How do you propose to change MRD without affecting PVE as well? There's absolutely no reason to play without your soul job equipped unless you're a warrior because MRD (a tank class btw) lolburst people in a few hits.

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Originally Posted by Rainsworth

Why the hell would I play as a pugilist in pvp? Or as an arcanist instead of sch/smn? Or as a lancer? How do you propose to change MRD without affecting PVE as well? There's absolutely no reason to play without your soul job equipped unless you're a warrior because MRD (a tank class btw) lolburst people in a few hits.

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I question that MRD is the only class (not job) that is viable in PvP. Other DoWs can set the same crossclass actions so I'm sure there is a setup for another class that works.

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Originally Posted by Wobble

I don't care about PvP myself but why would they remove this, I mean it can be used an any dungeon so why should PvP be any different?

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This ^

Insta-rez isn't that big of a deal since it allows you to do something weak and underhanded: Camp. Once they get up they tend to die if someone sleeps/stun locks the healers into submission and that means swiftcast is off the table again.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I question that MRD is the only class (not job) that is viable in PvP. Other DoWs can set the same crossclass actions so I'm sure there is a setup for another class that works.

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I don't think that losing dragon kick, one ilm punch and fist of fire/wind/earth is worth it for monks. The other jobs also lose key abilities if they unequip their soul. There are no setup other than MRD that works well in pvp.

marauder take out their soul crystal because they dont gain a single usefull ability from their warrior job to use in pvp... defiance lowers damage by 20%, inner beast, is good but you lose dps in every other skill, steel cyclone , useless... infuriate and unchained nothing good in here...

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Originally Posted by Rainsworth

Why the hell would I play as a pugilist in pvp? Or as an arcanist instead of sch/smn? Or as a lancer? How do you propose to change MRD without affecting PVE as well? There's absolutely no reason to play without your soul job equipped unless you're a warrior because MRD (a tank class btw) lolburst people in a few hits.

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I find gld to be a bit bursty as opposed to pld in battle so classes have their uses.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

I find gld to be a bit bursty as opposed to pld in battle so classes have their uses.

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At the cost of losing Hallowed ground, spirits within and cover? Gladiators don't have the burst of marauders.

honestly gladiators should stick with paladin.. "Cover" and "Spirits Within" make a ton of difference and sword oath will add a ton of extra dps... they will probably deal more dps than a gladiator and have far more tools to help thier party in pvp.

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Originally Posted by Rainsworth

At the cost of losing Hallowed ground, spirits within and cover? Gladiators don't have the burst of marauders.

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They do when you set all the avialable melee DPS buffs, plus GLA's own 30% damage buff.

gld and mrd are apples and oranges so saying gld doesn't have their burst when i compare gld to pld is moot. So to cover your points:

Hallowed Ground there are a few things i haven't tested properly but from what i can tell there are player attacks that can go through this. It's possible that CC and magic can go through if this ability is like the FFXI version but i do recall having been killed with this ability up i pvp. There are some good uses for this such as being the last man standing vs 2 dps or another tank (a healer can regen/aero you to death as they kite you so forget them) but it's really situational at best.

Spirits within: Pld's only saving grace and it silences... but the recast is long as hell, normal actions already interupt casts, and if you DO need SW it's for stopping important moves like raise and big heals which would be swiftcasted and if not SW then a normal action can do the job.

Cover: It is worthless. All you can do as a paladin is slow dps and cover, which is currently bugged, it's sucky since pld gears for str at a loss of hp and cover uses your covered targets def as your own which means you're gonna take an even FASTER beating.

That being said no way am i giving the ability to remove 70% of a healers hp in 8 secs away for a 10 sec ability, a stupid ability, and SW which is easily replaced by impulse drive (damage wise) while chasing something down. If you get a chance try raging strikes+FoF+straight shot + internal release + impulse drive on people kiting you and laugh as you crit them for 200-300 every few secs and you'll never equip your stone in pvp again.

*edit* this ^ is against those fully geared tanks and from behind so imagine clothies oh and i forgot to add in invigorate for chasing something down at a pivotal moment.

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Originally Posted by Warthain

marauder take out their soul crystal because they dont gain a single usefull ability from their warrior job to use in pvp... defiance lowers damage by 20%, inner beast, is good but you lose dps in every other skill, steel cyclone , useless... infuriate and unchained nothing good in here...

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Originally Posted by Warthain

honestly gladiators should stick with paladin.. "Cover" and "Spirits Within" make a ton of difference and sword oath will add a ton of extra dps... they will probably deal more dps than a gladiator and have far more tools to help thier party in pvp.

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

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Too bad you lose too much for trying to be a wannabe marauder. You don't have holmgang, no butcher's block (hits like a truck) and shield bash is not off GCD. On paper it may seem that GLD is a viable class for pvp but in practice this is not the case. Stick with your paladin.

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Originally Posted by Rainsworth

Exactly!



Too bad you lose too much for trying to be a wannabe marauder. You don't have holmgang, no butcher's block (hits like a truck) and shield bash is not off GCD. On paper it may seem that GLD is a viable class for pvp but in practice this is not the case. Stick with your paladin.

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Just want to throw out there:
Rage of Halone is the paladin's "Butcher's Block" and it has 20 more potency tacked on. also, stun being spammable (and timable) is a lot better than 1 off the gcd every 20s or so.

MRD is better for more damage. PLD doesnt need to go gld for more damage cause its more of a utility tank with -some- damage behind it. Trying to make a MRD out of it ruins its true usefulness. Overall, still agreeing that MRD > WAR and PLD > GLD.

In a month or so from now people will catch on to what's going on. Nothing is worst than having your prey stunned and unable to move and all you can do is use 2 abilities (think gcd timer) for 100 -> 200 dmg before having to reapply stun when you could have done 180 -> 180 and have more crit/dmg.

*edit* other than stun and a possible pacification i really don't find any utility besides stun :/ if anything we have the ability to harass people and keep healers busy and stand there with a stunned target with very little kill power (iirc killing is important).

Deep down i feel as though mrds are using this whimsical excuse as 'payback' from pve related issues.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

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GLD and MRD are only 2 tank classes in the game, 1 being more defensive and the other one being more offensive so yes you can compare them. Good paladins know when to use cover and spirits within (I'm speaking from a 3-4 man queueing point of view, not solo queueing). As for hallowed ground, it does work in pvp. I don't know if it removes DOTs that were currently on you prior to using the ability but it does work in pvp that's for sure. The skill description does say that it blocks MOST attacks, not all. I'm not saying that you can't play as a GLD in pvp but you're gimping yourself. 200-300 hits every few secs is easily healable. Feel free to post your gladiator video but in my mind, GLD are gimping themselves trying to be wannabee DPS.

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ust want to throw out there:
Rage of Halone is the paladin's "Butcher's Block" and it has 20 more potency tacked on. also, stun being spammable (and timable) is a lot better than 1 off the gcd every 20s or so.

MRD is better for more damage. PLD doesnt need to go gld for more damage cause its more of a utility tank with -some- damage behind it. Trying to make a MRD out of it ruins its true usefulness. Overall, still agreeing that MRD > WAR and PLD > GLD.

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That's correct. Paladins are not killers but they are a pain in the ass to healers.

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Originally Posted by Rainsworth

GLD and MRD are only 2 tank classes in the game, 1 being more defensive and the other one being more offensive so yes you can compare them. Good paladins know when to use cover and spirits within (I'm speaking from a 3-4 man queueing point of view, not solo queueing). As for hallowed ground, it does work in pvp. I don't know if it removes DOTs that were currently on you prior to using the ability but it does work in pvp that's for sure. The skill description does say that it blocks MOST attacks, not all. I'm not saying that you can't play as a GLD in pvp but you're gimping yourself[/b]. 200-300 hits every few secs is easily healable. Feel free to post your gladiator video but in my mind, GLD are gimping themselves trying to be wannabee DPS.

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Then what are you doing? Cover is bugged and cover+hallowed ground doesn't do what it should on paper. At best you are describing a damage-less participant who shouldn't focus on damage but should use their 30 sec abilities, their auto attacks, and cover a healer knowing very well the only 2 ways you can over your healer is to TAKE damage from holmgang OR intercept damage on the coat tails of a healer.

- In the first scenario it's best to stun the warrior since holmgang is only 6 seconds and by time the stun lands they'll be 2 seconds in so that allows the healer to escape instead of taking shots to the face.
- The second scenario you'd have to coordinate (or walk away from the other team's healer) a kite to get in range or try to sprint into range to absorb some hits. Know what i do the moment i see cover? I attack from in front or get between the two and i find that more and more people are doing so.

So now that we know cover only 'works' if everyone is in an ideal position, which we all know is never the case in pvp. So lets move on to the ever so situational Hallowed Ground.
-It negates most damage.
Since Cover+Hallowed Ground means you take the TARGETS damage ratings, this combo doesn't work which leaves HG to a situation where there are 1 or 2 people remaining or a very close tie. Since you only get hit once in a while as a paladin or even dead last like the average fight this ability remains situational or for those rare occasions.

So we finally arrive at the only worthwhile move that's decent to use. Having critted a mnk in the back with this for 670dmg i will admit it's pretty nice to use once in a while. Having locked down a pve geared whm and not being able to destroy them properly on the way and at the destination i can say paladin is lacking--but we do have utilities!

-Stun
-Silence (only useful for Surecast+Equanimity countered by stun/glory slash)
-Flash

66% of these don't hold a candle to actual utility like heavy/bind/sleep/heal debuff/etc but the least effective one is used by the least effective arena job. I'll make a comparison video when i have spare time but i promise you won't see anything nice about paladin in comparison to gld.

I will also admit i did help a blm use sleepga in a corner with cover active (this was planned) but me not being on the healer allowed the other healer to wake them so that once upon a time rare situation really wasn't so helpful tbh.

Hallowed works against every skills being cast after hallowed is deployed, current dots and skills used during hallowed animation before the buff is counting will still go through and kill you in the process if your hp is low... i just dont know if after hallowed is deployed if any dots you have are still hitting you or if they get removed/do no damage.