FFXIV the worst economy in any P2P MMO?

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

miners can't make gil because of bots

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No, Miners can make gil - Many people bot and not just RMT, so I think what you meant to say was: "People who don't bot can't make gil." Honestly, the biggest issue is because people really don't care lol.

Item > 20,000
20,000
20,000
20,000
[All Previous sales for 20,000 - 22,000]

Why would you feel so...forced to undercut to 7,500 - 12,000? Which then makes people undercut that price and, well, now the product is worth nothing.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

WOAH woah woah woah woah woah... woah. FFXIVs economy is bad, yes. But FFXI had one of the absolute worst economies in any MMO I have ever played (not including the inflation/crash incident).

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Not really. Anything worth anything had value and HQ gear was always more expensive, especially stuff like the Lumine set which gave stats to the HQ (basically mini hauby set) otherwise everything was affordable to anyone who didn't vendor everything they obtained and actually bothered to try to make gil. The only time it was bad was when RMT had a $1/1mil Xmas sale in 2005.

In a game where you do not have to be a dedicated gatherer and crafter, where you can be everything, there is little demand for anyone to buy crafted items because they can make them themselves.

The ability to be any class is one of the great things about FFXIV to attract people but sadly it is also one of the big problems.

If you think this economy is bad, you probably never played SWTOR where gold was just given out in massive amounts just by completing your dailies (roughly 200k a day and took about an hour to do). It got so bad, that Bioware had to make unique colour crystals (amongst a few other vanity items) and sell them for absurd amounts (similar now to the housing in FFXIV) in an attempt to try and remove some of the gold from the economy before they introduced the next game update. The game was only about 3 months old at this time also.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

i would have to say is the Players fault. Keep undercutting and being ignorant to the fact that it ruins the market value of the items.

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Even without undercutting, nothing is really worthwhile, you can basically collect anything you want with ease
It's the reason supply is so high, and the demand never had a chance to catch up

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Not really. Anything worth anything had value and HQ gear was always more expensive, especially stuff like the Lumine set which gave stats to the HQ (basically mini hauby set) otherwise everything was affordable to anyone who didn't vendor everything they obtained and actually bothered to try to make gil. The only time it was bad was when RMT had a $1/1mil Xmas sale in 2005.

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Sorry but FFXi economy was bad. Back before I quit(a few months after COP) you grinded mobs to sell stuff for very little gill, in fact there was almost no way to make it outside of crafting. Not to mention crafters became so un godly greedy. oh you want this lvl 10 armor 50k lol. Back then no lvl 10 could even dream of 50k yet people put it up for that. Heck that economy practiclly forced RMT on everyone because of greedy crafters.

Nearly everything I used to craft for money is now sold by beast tribe NPC's. So.. I have been feeling a bit upset.

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Originally Posted by Olyvar

In a game where you do not have to be a dedicated gatherer and crafter, where you can be everything, there is little demand for anyone to buy crafted items because they can make them themselves.

The ability to be any class is one of the great things about FFXIV to attract people but sadly it is also one of the big problems.

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This is the biggest problem for our economy. The armoury system is awesome for combat classes, but we really shouldn't be allowed to have all crafting classes at 50.

I think if you they should make it so if you use a DoL or DoH class you can only pick one, you can level them all, but only have once active. If you want to switch you put all other on a 72 hour lockout and lower the number of cross class skills you can use with DoH. The problem with crafting in this game is it is to easy. If you give DoH this new disadvantage you make it harder to craft HQ items and you make people with DoH more dependent on other DoH since they are cutoff from other recipes they will need to buy things from other DoHs. If you can only choose one DoH or DoL for 72 hours you also boost economy for DoL, right now I can go mine and harvest anything I need for crafting with everything at 50. If I could only pick 1 DoH or DoL I'd be forced to buy my materials from the DoLs. Just a thought.

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Sorry but FFXi economy was bad. Back before I quit(a few months after COP) you grinded mobs to sell stuff for very little gill, in fact there was almost no way to make it outside of crafting. Not to mention crafters became so un godly greedy. oh you want this lvl 10 armor 50k lol. Back then no lvl 10 could even dream of 50k yet people put it up for that. Heck that economy practiclly forced RMT on everyone because of greedy crafters.

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Yep. And it's the same here as in any other mmo. The community sets the prices and they set them at astronomical rates. Rates no casual or regular player can or would be willing to afford. Then when they get undercut to hell, they come and complain they can't make any profit. You get undercut because you have no idea how to initialize an item on the market for a real economical value. Look at any new item since 2.1 when it dropped. most everything was right away put up for 1+ mill gil.

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Originally Posted by MortalWare

Except housing... ZING!

Start a Real Estate market. Plots can be sold off by players.

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Except only a fool would invest in property that depreciates in value...

Gil is the only thing that is not in excess supply at the moment.

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Originally Posted by kuikui

You get undercut because you have no idea how to initialize an item on the market for a real economical value. Look at any new item since 2.1 when it dropped. most everything was right away put up for 1+ mill gil.

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The real economic value is whatever people are willing to spend on it so of course people will start by high-balling it. Bluebirds are a good example right now there's no way someone is going to part with millions over it but that isn't going to stop people working their way down to the real value. The entire problem with this economy is that every adjustment SE has made has encouraged saving, which is a sure-fire way to tank any market.

Mats that I used to farm, like fleece and raptor mats, tanked 90% in value almost overnight with 2.1. This is a shame since it discourages farming. Since mats are no longer scarce, they have no value, and I have no interest in farming them, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. This effectively removes a huge portion of the DoM/DoW from interacting with the economy. I can make more reliable money instantly with duty roulettes and leves, rather than posting depreciated mats and getting undercut for several days before they finally sell

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Originally Posted by MortalWare

Except housing... ZING!

Start a Real Estate market. Plots can be sold off by players.

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The only thing of value left in the game is own by the government (SE)


The only real way to earn money is this game is through rmt or sell runs. Crafting you have to constantly undercut to make a buck.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

miners can't make gil because of bots

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No other explanation for shard bots longevity in this game other than they are allowed to remain and exist in order to artificially keep the economy depressed for accessibility to all, I firmly believe they are allowed to remain because,

A. A GM isn't being paid so overhead is saved.
B. The RMT is probably paying a sub fee.
C. The bot keeps the flooded market price of elemental mats tanked therebye keeping the one mat required for all crafting cheap, and in doing so keeps the economy deflated.

A,B and C are a win, win situation for SE from a profit standpoint, it's good business.

At some juncture because it's sooo easy to eat through content in this game people will become bored and this will backfire on SE, however considering much of the mentality in the gamer population these days this will probably take a very looong time.

As Xatsh said above the only workable solution would be a complete teardown of the economy/crafting system with a complete rebuild, bet they don't do this and release a Realm Rebuilt.^^

Sad but it seems pretty point blank to me.

Well, it has to be expected.

It's clear Yoshi is not developing a mmorpg, it's a single player theme park featuring some instanced co-op.

I had my miner at lvl 46 for weeks now, simply cuz there is no demand for ores. I could farm my way to 50 mining electrum but thats means I'll have to sell 6-7 stacks of 100 or perhaps more then that for 10g on the market. Which I know won't sell because someone is always there with thre stupid undercutting of 1gill. When I started electrum ore was around 90g for NQ and 110 for HQ. not insane prices but enough to get some gill. When i finally got to the lvl to mine it, it was 30gill for HQ and 20 for NQ. When i finally farmed 4-5 stacks, it was 10g. i put it up and someone undercut me till 7 gill.. like really?


This whole crafting system is cute and pretty looking but with nothing to craft for anyone, materia becoming useless as high lvl gear has literally no materia slots and so forth, it is becoming a worthless part of the game. Would be nice if in 2.2 it would be completely rebuild till it what something usefull. World of Warcrafts crafting was pretty nice, it had epic materials, epic weaponry and legendary weaponry / armor crafting which was a good step up from what we call lvl 70 dark light, but not good enough to replace say CT or Coil gear. It had craftable mounts, craftable minions and plenty of other things that made that economy worthwile.

In here we got.. Apkallu eggs, La noscean toast and apkallu omelettes.or something

The Beastmen NPCs selling crafting materials is just another problem added to these current ones. Yoshi even stated he wanted to make it so you could order your retainers to gather materials (sure its not implemented yet but would be a problem down the road). Very few things sell and now with timeworn maps non-crafters can obtain things such as HQ Twinthread, HQ Undyed Felt, list goes on. Things are just going to get worse, the one crafting ability that could have helped line pockets would have been furniture but the high price for JUST the lots keeps it out of reach for most so there's no supply on furniture. But of course if SE drops the Primal/ADS drops to where everyone can get it, that would be destroyed as well.

Edit: Much of the market in 1.23 was because Forbidden Melds destroyed the Materia and the Gear it was being attached to. Now with sockets and Materia only exploding on the meld itself, you only need 1 HQ item. I really hated the RNG that came with the system but I see it's merits now. Let's not forget the low caps on meldable gear, you could stack Materia and make crafted gear the best (course we only had Darklight to compete with). The market was flooded with cheap items that would be Spiritbonded and turned into Materia, supply was high but so was demand. Right now the only "high" demand item are shards because the vast amounts you need to craft just 1 item (5/6 per on higher items) which when you have a stack to make can deplete your numbers fast. But the market is completely controlled by RMT and Bots.

All i see here is a lot of people complaining that they cant make tons of Gil by selling their crafted stuff at super inflated prices.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

All i see here is a lot of people complaining that they cant make tons of Gil by selling their crafted stuff at super inflated prices.

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No, most people are complaining that there is nothing to spend your gil on and no reason to farm gil (and thus no real reason to log on once you've capped Myth and finished raiding).

People rarely exchange gil, so the economy is basically dead.

The new comers are the ones having trouble making any gil because the old players have no reason to spend theirs, and if they do, it wont be giving new players gil at all. Old players have professions maxed and can offer better rates because they're already rich. New players must spend gil to get their profession up and then struggle to earn money with the professions because nobody wants anything made by a crafter anyway.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Well, it has to be expected.

It's clear Yoshi is not developing a mmorpg, it's a single player theme park featuring some instanced co-op.

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QFT... this is a big problem in the MMO industry today imo. Probably the biggest reason why all of these wow clones fail so hard over and over. Its a terrible game model but its now what is 'expected' out of the industry.

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Originally Posted by Archona

No, most people are complaining that there is nothing to spend your gil on and no reason to farm gil (and thus no real reason to log on once you've capped Myth and finished raiding).

People rarely exchange gil, so the economy is basically dead.

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People aren't exchanging Gil because Crafters are demanding far too much.

Case in point, NQ lvl15 THM pants, 75gil. This guy gets a sale.
The same pants but HQ, 2750.
Who in their right mind, as a level 15 player, would pay such an extreme amount for a +1 INT difference?

And no, i did not pull those numbers from thin air. Looking at the MBs right now.
The cost of crafted gear on the MB is far in excess of the cost associated in making it.
Looking at 10 - 15k for HQ level 35 - 40 DRG gear. Why would i buy any of that for those prices.
Was looking for a couple of MNK gears to SB off the MB, turned away in disgust at the prices.

I had a GSM friend craft me HQ Rose Gold Earscrews, i bought all the mats for 80k. Yet people try to sell them for 200 - 400k+.

Make sales ofr reasonable prices, and people will buy. Made 130k in an hour selling off Materia I'll never use.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

People aren't exchanging Gil because Crafters are demanding far too much.

Case in point, NQ lvl15 THM pants, 75gil. This guy gets a sale.
The same pants but HQ, 2750.
Who in their right mind, as a level 15 player, would pay such an extreme amount for a +1 INT difference?

Make sales ofr reasonable prices, and people will buy. Made 130k in an hour selling off Materia I'll never use.

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Why would a Lv15 THM WANT to buy a HQ pants that will last him all of 2-3 hours? No reason to spend gil on alt gear. There is no way a crafter should expect low level items to sell, period.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

All i see here is a lot of people complaining that they cant make tons of Gil by selling their crafted stuff at super inflated prices.

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Then there's lvl 40+ GSM crafted gear that sell for 30 gil - and I didn't take the numbers out of thin air either. It doesn't get much further from 'super inflated prices' than that.

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Originally Posted by Archona

Why would a Lv15 THM WANT to buy a HQ pants that will last him all of 2-3 hours? No reason to spend gil on alt gear. There is no way a crafter should expect low level items to sell, period.

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Because those HQ pants + Melds are easily as good if not better than gear found in Sastasha - Copperbell, with the possible exception of Acolyte. Actually, looking at the stats on Acolytes now, No, the HQ +Meld is as good Acolytes.

Which is kind of my whole point. Make sales with reasonable asking prices, and people will buy it.
HQ+Melded gear is the equal of Dungeon gear right up till 50. And even then, Vanya gear is easily superior to Darklight due to those Melds, and outright better than any loot from non raid dungeons. People just wont want to buy Vanya when when crafters ask for more than you can possibly afford.

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Originally Posted by Leowilde

Then there's lvl 40+ GSM crafted gear that sell for 30 gil - and I didn't take the numbers out of thin air either. It doesn't get much further from 'super inflated prices' than that.

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I can reasonably call BS on this statement, at least on my server, as I'm looking through the MB right now, and I'm seeing rings selling for 5k, 1.7k, 4.2k and every number between. In fact, the only items that begin to fall under the 1k Gil mark are NQ level 27 crafter rings.
Earrings are just as bad, starting at 1k and going up for just NQ stuff. With the level 29 stuff being the first to go under 1k. And even, people still have those things up for more than that.
Hell, people are asking for 1711 Gil for NQ Brass Ear Cuffs. I can make them for as little 10 gil out of my own pocket.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Because those HQ pants + Melds are easily as good if not better than gear found in Sastasha - Copperbell, with the possible exception of Acolyte. Actually, looking at the stats on Acolytes now, No, the HQ +Meld is as good Acolytes.

Which is kind of my whole point. Make sales with reasonable asking prices, and people will buy it.
HQ+Melded gear is the equal of Dungeon gear right up till 50. And even then, Vanya gear is easily superior to Darklight due to those Melds, and outright better than any loot from non raid dungeons. People just wont want to buy Vanya when when crafters ask for more than you can possibly afford.

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For the purposes of finishing content, there is no reason to spend gil on crafted gear, especially on HQ leveling stuff. You can finish the content just as easily with NQ vendor gear or quest gear. As far as Vanya vs Darklight goes, Darklight fulfills same purpose and is good enough for CT/Coil. Twintania is the only possible exception. You used to have to craft chestpiece if you got Allagan helm, but now you can just get CT chestpiece instead and not break your bank with crafted gear + materia for a few measly substat points that won't make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I can reasonably call BS on this statement, at least on my server, as I'm looking through the MB right now, and I'm seeing rings selling for 5k, 1.7k, 4.2k and every number between. In fact, the only items that begin to fall under the 1k Gil mark are NQ level 27 crafter rings.
Earrings are just as bad, starting at 1k and going up for just NQ stuff. With the level 29 stuff being the first to go under 1k. And even, people still have those things up for more than that.
Hell, people are asking for 1711 Gil for NQ Brass Ear Cuffs. I can make them for as little 10 gil out of my own pocket.

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On your server, perhaps. I'm on moogle. But it's not all the gear, and rings seem to be on the winning part. But much of the head gear, circlets in particular, have been sold for extremely low prices. Ok, 30 gil MIGHT be a memory error on my pary, but they've gone below 200 gil way too often. I've spent more on the shards needed on really bad days. :(

Edit: I checked, and when I did I found several circlets selling for less than 30 gil. It's shameful, that's what it is.

Sylve, what you're describing is a very dramatic shift in the value of gil that has been happening over the last few months. I read a post on here where a guy said he wouldnt gather for anything less than 50k per hour or its just charity work that's not worth his time, but 50k is technically a fairly large sum of money in terms of new gil generations. Running 2 high level roulettes in an hour and you make what... maybe 20k at best? (pre repairs)

I think this all comes from our market being started based on this 300k we initially get from questing our first class to 50. You start with 300k for essentially doing nothing so most people spent it all really fast early on (and then probably quit like they were going to anyways (remember only about 35% of people who start playing kept their sub after the first month) so income was massive early on. Now though, esp with gil being removed from the economy through stuff like housing, the value of gil is skyrocketing, yet its perceived value is not.

The biggest issue with our economy (IMO at least) is the complete lack of consumables. The market shouldn't compete against dungeon drops (like it is currently) but instead it should complement it. I personally think materia is the biggest way we could kick the economy back in full swing. By adding materia slots to blue dungeon gear and also making consumables that require materia, we could really increase the level of trade between crafters and non-crafters by placing a much higher value on spiritbonding.

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Originally Posted by Archona

For the purposes of finishing content, there is no reason to spend gil on crafted gear, especially on HQ leveling stuff. You can finish the content just as easily with NQ vendor gear or quest gear. As far as Vanya vs Darklight goes, Darklight fulfills same purpose and is good enough for CT/Coil. Twintania is the only possible exception. You used to have to craft chestpiece if you got Allagan helm, but now you can just get CT chestpiece instead and not break your bank with crafted gear + materia for a few measly substat points that won't make a difference.

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Crafted gear remains an option for those who don't want to farm dungeons for Darklight.
Vanya and Darklight are both good enough for Coil. You can either or a mix of both. Choice. Get crafted gear or get Tome gear.

The only way to force people to spend Gil on the Market Boards is have Crafters make stuff that is better than gear obtained elsewhere.
If you, today, gave all crafters recipes for ilvl 65, 75 and 85 gear, Ak/WP/HMs/PS, Darklight, Vanya and CTower gear gear is all obsolete. The only way to obtain the best precoil gear becomes the market boards. Combat Classes are then beholden to Crafters in order to progress. Give them i90 Craftables, and suddenly Coil itself is obsolete in terms of drops.
Combat Classes then level the Crafting Classes and make their own gear. And BOOM, Crafters have nothing to sell because their target market is making it all themselves.

Make your prices fair, and people will buy it. I want Vanya Robes for my SCH. Looking now, i see Robes up for 162k. Given the prices for the mats, Thats almost a fair price, and i'm willing to spend the money to buy it.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Make your prices fair, and people will buy it. I want Vanya Robes for my SCH. Looking now, i see Robes up for 162k. Given the prices for the mats, Thats almost a fair price, and i'm willing to spend the money to buy it.

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I don't how it is on Hyperion but ATP mats on Coeurl have dropped to 5-6k each. Meaning any crafted piece requires ~50k gil. If you pay 162k for a robe that cost that guy 50k (maybe 60k after some mostly worthless thread) then you are being robbed imo. I wouldn't pay a gil over 100k for anything on my market board, and I've been happily crashing markets for the all week with the easily accessible ATPs you get from Main Scenario Roulette and CT.

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Originally Posted by zdub303

Sylve, what you're describing is a very dramatic shift in the value of gil that has been happening over the last few months. I read a post on here where a guy said he wouldnt gather for anything less than 50k per hour or its just charity work that's not worth his time, but 50k is technically a fairly large sum of money in terms of new gil generations. Running 2 high level roulettes in an hour and you make what... maybe 20k at best? (pre repairs)
I think this all comes from our market being started based on this 300k we initially get from questing our first class to 50. You start with 300k for essentially doing nothing so most people spent it all really fast early on (and then probably quit like they were going to anyways (remember only about 35% of people who start playing kept their sub after the first month) so income was massive early on. Now though, esp with gil being removed from the economy through stuff like housing, the value of gil is skyrocketing, yet its perceived value is not.

The biggest issue with our economy (IMO at least) is the complete lack of consumables. The market shouldn't compete against dungeon drops (like it is currently) but instead it should complement it. I personally think materia is the biggest way we could kick the economy back in full swing. By adding materia slots to blue dungeon gear and also making consumables that require materia, we could really increase the level of trade between crafters and non-crafters by placing a much higher value on spiritbonding.

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Speaking of Consumables, I'd buy Food for my Raid runs if i wasn't paying 5 figure sums for tiny stacks. Crafted gear needs to be a sidegrade option, moreso than it is right now. Problem is, You can only make sidegrade type gear up till ilvl 70. You cant have crafted 80 or 90 gear because that invalidates the Coil/CT loot. And we should never be able to get the best gear with crafting.

I do agree that Materia needs to play a bigger role on our gear than it does currently.
Once Housing prices drop down to affordable prices, through both the current degradation of prices over time, and SE tweaking prices as we go, The market for Furniture and general housing items should go up. We'll see a general shift to housing being the main focus for Crafting rather than Combat Gear.

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Originally Posted by zdub303

I don't how it is on Hyperion but ATP mats on Coeurl have dropped to 5-6k each. Meaning any crafted piece requires ~50k gil. If you pay 162k for a robe that cost that guy 50k (maybe 60k after some mostly worthless thread) then you are being robbed imo. I wouldn't pay a gil over 100k for anything on my market board, and I've been happily crashing markets for the all week with the easily accessible ATPs you get from Main Scenario Roulette and CT.

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Hyperion is a Legacy server, so general prices are still pretty high. In time we'll get more newer players and the prices will shift down. Given that it was only a month ago that those Vanya robes were 500k - 1million (Still 1 million i see at the bottom of the list) coming down to 162 actually makes it affordable for most, even fresh players with their 300k.

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Originally Posted by Archona

Why would a Lv15 THM WANT to buy a HQ pants that will last him all of 2-3 hours? No reason to spend gil on alt gear. There is no way a crafter should expect low level items to sell, period.

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And therein lies another problem with the economy, the super casual speed leveling so that nobody needs/wants to get gear from level to level. Unlike older games where it took an hour or more a level, and how long it was really was dependent on the gear of your party, better gear meant faster leveling. In it's current state, leveling in XIV doesn't call for capping out your gear every few levels to ensure your moving at peak speeds. Even then what gear you do go after, as others have stated, will likely just be dungeon drops that are as good or better than the crafted equivs.

I seriously doubt that there will be a furniture market at all for the simple fact that it FC housing sndvit would be crazy to think a FC dont have a crafter. So really there is really no point in this economy because the game practically gives you everything. So now my question to SE is: Why even put crafting in the game if it meaningless?

P.S. bump

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

So really there is really no point in this economy because the game practically gives you everything. So now my question to SE is: Why even put crafting in the game if it meaningless?

P.S. bump

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Time sink.

There are way too many pieces of material generated for them to hold any value. The only reason the market worked earlier was because people were crafting under the false belief that later they could make useful/profitable items. Now that all the people that enjoyed DoH are at cap, and most DoW/M are geared at or above the ilvl70 craft ceiling what would any of us want to buy? I could certainly see why dungeon gear needs to be the better than crafted gear, but I think a lot of that should have to do with the difficulty/rarity of the equipment. Running an easy dungeon over and over(even if there is a currency limit per week) for the best gear in game is just as silly as allowing us to craft it.

I'd love for there to be some specialization for DoL/H, there are way too many people at cap in all of both. Let us get people to be reliant on each other again. Then introduce some ability that can only be done in that chosen class. With the ability introduce new crystals/materials that DoL could mine, and make them rare, the kind of rare that doesn't see more than a few even reach AH each day. Only allow crafters to us those materials in their chosen specialized craft. Let crafters make temporary buffed or enhanced versions of current gear, perhaps something that could not be repaired or with 1 hour effects. This type of gear could be really valuable to players that have hit a roadblock, perhaps a story dungeon or Titan HM.

This economy is only going to get worse too. As more and more people max out all the crafter levels no one will buy anything anymore. Any FC with a house will have multiple maxed crafters to make stuff and anyone that needs anything with just ask an FC mate or make it themselves. It's what our FC does. I say six months max and this game's economy will bottom out with the only people buying anything being absolute new players that trickle in. How could they not have seen this coming, seriously? Any MMO that has been built around every character can do everything eventually finds itself with no one needing anything. Meh, whatever DOOM! ;p

There is one, sure fire way to solve it or at least partially and get it kicking back in order.


1) Remove Materia from soul binding gear, remove soul binding all together.
2) Add materia to crafter classes, let each crafter class make materia with mats required to be crafted by other crafter classes.
3) Add materia slots to ilvl 55, 60, 70, 80 and 90/95 and up gear.
4) add set bonusses to crafted and high lvl gear.
5) Make some of the materials required to be dropped by dungeon / raid bosses. Make the drop rate like 0.1 - 0.3% for certain items.
6) Make certain rare materials tradeable, while other rare materials are not.

This way Materia would work kind of the same as in World Of Warcraft with enchanting and enscribing. It would give people something to do and sell and people that don't want to lvl crafter classes, would have something to buy.

There are many other things, like making crafting gear a decent substitute for dark light gear, or ilvl 80 gear(with rare mats) or give crafters unique items they can make that people like to collect for vanity, mounts, minions etc.

Add in Private housing and mannequins and make certain primals soloable(very difficult) like in ff11 and have them drop unique tradeable housing materials with a very low drop rate.

Regardless, something needs to be done.

it's pretty awful for sure. i won't say it's the worst, but it's up there for sure. there are ways to make gil if you and willing to take the time to research some first, but with the ease of leveling, saturated market, and the way crafted items in general are pretty worthless makes it a difficult position trying to find a spot to get into..

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Originally Posted by Shadex

This economy is only going to get worse too. As more and more people max out all the crafter levels no one will buy anything anymore. Any FC with a house will have multiple maxed crafters to make stuff and anyone that needs anything with just ask an FC mate or make it themselves. It's what our FC does. I say six months max and this game's economy will bottom out with the only people buying anything being absolute new players that trickle in. How could they not have seen this coming, seriously? Any MMO that has been built around every character can do everything eventually finds itself with no one needing anything. Meh, whatever DOOM! ;p

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it has nothing to do with every character can level everything. it has to do with in just a day or 2 you can start a class and level it to cap. this was started late in 1.0 when they had the moronic idea of allowing power leveling where you could pull a group of people from 1-50 in less than 6 hours and it's continued into arr. if leveling didn't take only a day or 2 to level a class to cap then not everyone would do it. for the first year there were very few people that had more than one craft capped, but when exp jumped from around 100 exp a synth to over 2k a synth people flooded the markets. a coincidence? not at all likely.

in a shorter response it doesn't matter how many classes you can play if it takes time to level them because the vast majority of people will not be willing to put in the time to do them.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

So uh...Not to play devil's advocate, but outside of buying a house, what's the point of even having a lot of money in this game? There's no real "required" gold sinks.

I feel like a lot of people who complain about this, people just want to have money for the sake of having money.

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That's the point

you can't have an economy if no one has the need to spend gil ever

Really need SE to put some thought into this and fix the economy. The way they set up housing is so ridiculously heavy handed. Making the biggest, best plots upwards of 300 or 600 mil (depending on which legacy server group you're on) is beyond ridiculous. Only folks who got rich in 1.0 or took advantage of those rich people in the beginning of 2.0 (selling them stuff so they could power up their crafting classes, for those who hadn't done it already)... or people who sold Titan wins or whatever... would have anywhere near enough gil to actually buy a house. It's pretty clear they want a lot of gil to exit the economy, but there's no real value to all that gil. There's no particular REASON to materia up your gear, since there's nothing much worth crafting and battle gear is easily replaced with drops/atp/atm equips, sooo. That means the further we get away from launch, the harder it is to make gil change hands at any kind of reasonable rate, meaning the super rich stay super rich, and no one else can become super rich without a ridiculous amount of effort.

That said, props to SE for almost precisely modeling the game economy after the real world economy. Got your super rich 1%, and then a bunch of poors. Because it's so great in real life, let's do it in game too.

We really need things that have value, to make gil change hands, to give gil any kind of actual value. And more gil sinks, that aren't so heavy handed as hundreds of millions of gil for a house.

Some things that would help:

1) Skill-based farming, be it gathering or battle. Crafted gear/items that are really good, that most everyone would want, but requires a high level of skill to obtain. Like in FFXI, stuff like Herald's Gaiters would sell well because obviously not everyone can down Tiamat (when it came out).
2) Make food more better, and perhaps have ingredients for good food come from hardish dungeons that don't have a lot of value other than farming the food ingredients. In FFXI, if you weren't using food, you weren't doing enough damage, or hitting anything, pretty much period. Min/maxers, ie good players, will use food, but really everyone should need to use food like all the time, which will give it constant value.
3) Could add BCNM type content to satisfy the previous two things. Would also give a reason to farm beastmen, which would dovetail nicely with doing dailies. Get coins or whatever and use them to pay for BCNM battles which are hard and drop good stuff that everyone wants.
4) Add more non-ridiculous gil sinks. Like sell some mounts for gil, or furniture, or other items that people actually want/need. You can blow small amounts of gil out of the economy often like this, because people are willing to part with small amounts more easily than hundreds of millions (especially since there's no way for an FC to make money as an FC - ie no skill based raiding for money drops -, it's all individual contributions just for the pleasure of having a house). Like, people teleport and such for small amounts of gil all the time.
5) Other consumables like medicine are in the same boat as food. There's really no particular reason to use this stuff. In FFXI they could legitimately help you clear certain content if you were having trouble, but due to the high recast and very small effects, I don't see why anyone would bother with that stuff in FFXIV. Besides, it comes from like every quest everywhere.

The problem with this game is that accessibility seems to be the only driving force behind almost any decision. Other things besides accessibility need to be considered for the game to be fun. It's accessible to be able to gather from nodes while stealthed, but it makes all gathered stuff totally worthless. No stealth and lots of aggressive mobs near nodes (at least the higher level ones, or at least blocking the way to getting to those nodes) would make stuff worth more. So would being level X for more than 10 seconds. Or if everything wasn't handed to you in quests all the time.

No matter how it's done, there needs to be serious thought on how to make things in the economy have value, rather than trying to make it all SUPER accessible to everyone can get everything with almost no effort. You know?